Thanks for sharing Stephen. It is well composed and really hits home. I am very familiar with Tim’s book and his approach to “lifestyle design.” Looks like you have adapted well to the “Nuevo Rich” culture he speaks of.
I commend you on following your passions, and I as well am pushing for the wonderful lifestyle design myself. Yet, I have to remind myself that designs can take a lot of building time to make into a reality. You have to stick to the dream, heck sometimes I feel like I am still finding the dream for my life. It is a journey that we battle each day and can also enjoy in the moments along the way! Tim didn’t get there by 4 hour weeks, psshhh, he likely put in more like 80. I think there is a unique balance to both contributing toward a healthy lifestyle for you and yours, and freeing yourself to chase after “less stable” passions.
Overall, I know I have passions, goals, and hope to be uber passionate about something that also generates an income that I can be saving off of / sell for lots of money! Thanks again for sharing!
May our soccer talks always be blessed with joy and interesting conversations!!!
very interesting post – and that is a pretty big claim to back up – to be the best city! and you do a great job supporting your claim…
and love this “Beauty isn’t uniformity or conformity…”
and also the old and the new – parks, etc.
whew – and it sure does have an identity – fo sho.
Absolutely love this. My husband and I are trying to move there next year after we finish our year in Thailand. Any tips or suggestions on how to move? What do you do for work? If you have any connections or suggestions I would love to hear them 🙂 Love your site!
Thank you for this! I have an appointment on Tuesday for an au pair visa and I was so paranoid that I would get denied (actually, I’m sure of it since I don’t think my French family got my contract approved and I don’t think my French class correspondence will qualify, etc). It’s such a relief that they let you send your missing documents! Did you only have to pay the application fee once? That was another concern of mine. I don’t want to take multiple trips to Chicago or pay hundreds of dollars because THEIR website isn’t clear and I can’t get a response via email OR phone for WEEKS (I know, I shouldn’t blame them when I’m applying!).
In fact social networks have revolutionized our lives by incorporating
all the basic elements of a person’s social life in one place.
If you like something from other people’s board you
can “re-pin” it to your own. It’s not always easy, but if the material is for something truly important, it’s the wisest step
to take.
Hey Stephen! I love your blog! It’s super helpful for someone going through the same process. 🙂 One question: how long did it take to get your passport back after your appointment at the Consulate?
Lucy – about 3 weeks once they had all the paperwork they wanted from me.
Awesome! Thanks!! Keep up the blogging 🙂
Hi Stephen! Thanks for your awesome site! Did it take 3 weeks to get the Visa? Or how long?
Sara I had a couple missing components but once they had everything it was 7 business days.
What? You’re from Kansas City?! Moi aussi. So glad everything went well. The two times I’ve had to deal with the Chicago Consulate have been interesting, but in the end just fine.
Julia
Not “from,” but I did spend 7 years of my life there. All good memories 🙂
Such an inspirational post for me personally . . .I also pray for the “window” to open. I am at a crossroad in life and am considering pursuing my dream of teaching overseas. Best wishes, and please post more if you get a chance!
Awesome! Congratulations on another year en France!
Thanks Lucy!
Sir, I know we can’t work but can we get job? If yes then we convert into work permit?
Regards
Hadi
Dubai
Hadi it’s not that simple. You need to get a work permit/entrepreneur visa BEFORE you can work legally.
You must have work permit for internships, for CDIs it is not mandatory to have it before applying
Could I have the contact information for your renter’s insurance guy?
Jodie – sure just email me and I’ll send it to you.
Thanks so much for this! Your experience really helped me. I would not have known to bring a copy of renters insurance to the meeting. You taking the time to reply to my questions in email was sincerely appreciated. Two issues I had were not bringing copies of my French bank account statements but had my bank email them directly. And my teeth were showing slightly in my photos so had to retake them. But I just left with my Visa extension and so relieved. Thank you again!
There is a certain sense, I understand, in “newsjacking” something trendy and Christianizing it. Some time ago a number of people put the “equal” sign as their avatars for some days in response to an American court decision on so-called homosexual marriage. A number of people then put up the mathematically “unequal” sign in “protest.” This turns the conversation, dramatically, but I think it’s a distraction. People aren’t ready for the sort of 90, or 180 degree turn that “Je suis Charlie Martel” is. I daresay a lot of people, not just the French, have no idea who he is, and now you’ve turned the discussion from dealing with “free speech” and Islam in Europe to a military discussion about the Muslim invasions. I don’t quite think it works, and I’m worried that Christians, eager to show their bona fides in a cultural dispute about things that matter, try to strike their own trends, but rather than be original they are simply a poor knock-off of what swirls in the zeitgeist. They can, and should, do better.
It happens to the best of us travelers! Ya Live, travel, and learn…(and forget somewhere in the mix). Now you’ve got it over with for the rest of trip 😉
Enjoy your time here!! And check out my Food Guides/ other wild travel stories from all over Europe 😉
I agree that the french spoken in France is not easy. I Watch one French TV series from France (Plus Belle la Vie) and it amazes me by its difference with French Canadian, as I am from Montreal. I learned English by reading English books with a dictionary, and by watching English TV (I would not recommend watching too much TV anymore). I did the same with Spanish when I visited Spain and it worked. I learned also my prayers in Latin and it was easy. I know some words of other languages. Of course, Jesus must have known and could have spoken all the languages on earth.
You are a great man, but that does not change the fact that he is a poor little man.
You stole to you something you could afford to lose, but this is not always the case. I feel at the same time sad, because there are people like him, and happy because, after all, we can limit the impact they have on the lifes of the honest people.
Funny to read an article about my native language. I did not perceive the fact that we are speaking “bad french” every day – disappearance of “ne” for example. I will speak better now 😉
I ll do my best in the future
What makes the study of the language even more interesting are the different definitions for a work, based on dialects…Ex. la tourtière…(meat pie) In Ontario but in Québec it’s pâté à la viande…and tourtière is a different platter…! regional expressions…that even among French speaking people are misunderstood!
Stephen,
that’s really cool blog. i am trying to do the same, only we are a little different.
i will be applying from Chinese office for long stay visitor visa of France. the office in China is very very very strict, i tried to research any chinese has done it,but no luck.
the reason i am going to france is to learn French, since France would not issue student visa for Language only, then i have to look for alternative way which is long stay visitor visa. and my school doesn’t care if i dont have a student visa.
i really wish my application can go through. and i only have less than a month to apply for it. school test is waiting for me in Paris on the 7th September…
ps, i want to ask if you know anyone has similar case like me? or do you think i can apply for that visa with my reason?!
merci!
Stephan,
Great information. Thank you so much.
I have one question regarding the medical insurance. Are there any specific requirements as for deductible, co-pay, and annual limits?
Thanks,
Coleman
No they don’t really care – that’s on you – they just want proof that you have *something.*
Thank you for the info and prompt reply.
FYI, I was told by the Consulate in Chicago (when I was there submitting my visa application and documentation) that my policy needed to include medical evacuation coverage, with no deductible. This was in December 2014. Hope that helps!
Thank you for the recent update, Lucy. $0 deductible and include medical evacuation coverage. Anything said about any co-pay?
Nothing about co-pays. I also looked at my records and the minimum coverage needs to be $50,000 – I doubt there are any policies that small, but the gentleman at the Consulate wrote it down so I thought I would mention it. 🙂
It’s not a non-issue for them based on my experience.
My policy has a small yearly deductible, $750, and when I went to the consulate in Houston they noticed that, mentioned it, then went back over my bank statements to make sure I had the money to cover it in addition to what they’d be expecting for living expenses.
Not saying a $0 deductible policy is a better decision overall, since you need to weight that vs premium payments, but just be prepared to show you have enough money to cover the deductible as well as living expenses.
Thanks for your feedback – that’s helpful for anyone who goes to Houston for approval, for sure.
In my Chicago and Paris experience, they really didn’t look that closely at the policy.
Thanks for your thoughts, Stephen. Great blog, BTW. Maybe see you around in Paris sometime. Just moved to the 10th and should be here for at least a year.
Would love to grab coffee – shoot me an email and let’s get together.
Thanks, Lucy.
hi! I found this in my feverous search regarding French Visas. The French consulate says you can’t renew the long term visa in france…. I am assuming by your blog this is not truly the case. So two questions:
If I get the long term visitor visa in the states, can I renew it for another year in france?
If I get the long term visitor visa, can I switch to a type of self-employed/artist (i make films) visa once I am there? Or do I have to return for that?
I want to apply for the Carte Competences et Talents – Artist’s Visa, the issue is I don’t think I know enough about france to get it yet. I think after a year I can. I would like to know if I can come on a long stay visitor visa and apply for this card. I have seen vague evidence on the internet that this is possible, but nothing solid yet…
Given that I renewed my long-term stay visa in France last year, yes, it’s possible. Not sure what specific case/length the French Consulate was referring to. So, to answer your first question: “Yes, unless I’m somehow special.” As far as “switching” to the “auto entrepreneur” visa once you get here…not so fast. This isn’t college and changing your major, and France is a couple thousand years old so a basic immigration trick like that isn’t going to work. I’m changing my status to a working one later this year, but that took a lot of planning and tactics. Short answer: “No, you can’t.”
The artist visa is an interesting one – I can connect you with a friend who might be able to help. Email me at stephen AT aroadtaken.com and I’ll connect you guys.
Stephan,
I have been reading more and more of your articles. Great stuff. Thank you for sharing. And I apologize in advance if my next question is answered somewhere on your website. But when applying for a long term visitor visa, for the purposes of the visa application, do you not need to sign a one-year lease contract?
From another one of your articles (I think that you discussed Airbnb), it appears that one does not. (I would also like to have the flexibility of moving within the year.)
But, is a 6-month contract acceptable to the French authorities even though it is a one-year visa?
Thanks,
Coleman
P.S. Can you recommend the cheapest medical insurance carrier/policy, that you are aware of, that is acceptable to the French authorities. You mentioned in another article that you switched from Cigna to a local French provider in your second year.
Thanks again for your advice.
Coleman – it’s a flat market and Cigna costs the same as my provider, except that my provider requires the entire premium in advance, so I think Cigna is a better option for you – especially if your French is not good enough to simply call up my provider (who doesn’t speak English :-).
As for the original application – I don’t remember having to present a one year lease – I certainly didn’t have one at the time of the application. The French aren’t interested in the details of where – they are more interested in the fact that you have a place – so a QDL or an attestation de hebergement is going to be fine. When I renewed I don’t think I showed them a lease either. That being said, I would encourage you not to move around too much – I’ve maintained the same permanent address in Paris from when I came here through an arrangement with the gardienne of the building. Moving just presents hiccups in paperwork you don’t want.
Good advice. Thanks.
Thanks for the article. Very helpful. Regarding the questionnaire (filled out in french), do you have to have the document notarized by a french “notaire” or a US one? If US, do you have some contact details in Chicago area? Thanks so much.
Sandrine – basic rule – if you are doing something for the US side, English is fine – for example, an American notary and your health insurance policy in English. If you are applying on the French side, they want French-translated health insurance and a French notaire. Your friendly neighborhood Chicago notary should be fine. 🙂
Hi Stephen,
I am currently in my search for apartments in Paris and have one question with regard to the apartment that I find and renewing the visa one year later.
My preference would be to get an apartment for a shorter term (say three or six months) and then get a one year lease perhaps in another location, once I am more familiar with the neighborhoods.
My question: When I go to renew the long stay visa, will I need proof of where I lived during the previous 12 months, similar to having to show 12 months worth of banking statements? Or will I just show my current lease?
Thanks,
Coleman
Coleman
Firstly I would recommend using ParisExpat.com to help you find an apartment.
Secondly, the renewal is about the future, so a current lease is fine. They don’t assume life works neatly and that you necessarily decided to stay in the same place all 12 months and hence need to show proof of all the places you lived. Furthermore, they don’t require proof that you have signed another 12 month lease. A simple QDL will do. And proof of insurance on that property.
s.
Thanks, Stephan. I just found a perfect place for the location that I need on ParisExpat.com. Hopefully I will get a response to my inquiry tomorrow.
Hello! I’m so glad I found your blog post, I am trying to renew my long stay visitor visa in a few weeks and wanted to know,
1) Where did you get your birth certificate translated
2) Do I really need renters insurance?
I live with my boyfriend (french) in his house, so I have all the proof that he owns the place and that I’m allowed to live there, (worked to get the visa coming here), so just wondering if I’ll still need this, seeing as it’s what held up your process.
3) Do they process the passport/visa right away? Or will I have to come back? Because poor planning I’m flying out to the UK 2 days after my appointment, and will need my passport back.
Thank you for your help!!
Monica – I’m sorry I didn’t see this comment until recently – I’m hoping you got these issues sorted?
Thanks Stephen!
Hi Stephen,
Your article was enjoyable to read, and once again, informative. I am now in Paris with my long stay visitor visa, and waiting for the medical exam with OFII. I was not aware that I needed to stay 270 days a year in France. Not a problem. Good to know. Thanks for mentioning it in your article.
You also mentioned that next year you will be transitioning your visitor visa to one that leads to citizenship. Great job. Congratulations and good luck.
Can you please share what types of visas can lead to citizenship, or permanent residence? Or lead me towards the best website(s) for the info.
It is my understanding that after having a visitor visa for 5 years, (renewed each year), one can apply for a 10-year resident visa. Is this accurate? Also, at that point, can a person work on a “10-year resident visa”? I enjoy Paris and don’t have a problem with not working for 5 years, but I’m not sure that I want to be permanently retired either.
Coleman – I’m going to be sharing some of those details in a future post. If someone wants a clear path on “how-to” you should contact me privately and I can discuss more with you that way.
Hello Stephen please I’m in a fix, My friend invite me to Paris for a visit, the problem now is, I’m unemployed and don’t have a business here in Nigeria, He will support my stay in Paris but the Visa requirements says otherwise.
(meaning i will have a job before travelling)
How can i apply for Visa and won’t be denied?
Thanks look forward to hearing from you..
Cynthia
Can you please try, slowly and carefully, to explain your situation again? I don’t understand what you mean.
My story goes this way..
A friend of mine invites me to Paris for a visit, he is an American citizen.
He will sponsor my staying in Paris.
I’m not financial ready..
Can he send his documentaries to me.
C i apply for Visa and won’t be denied??
Cynthia – when you say he will “sponsor your visit in Paris” I hope you mean he is going to give you a large amount of cash to put in a bank account under your name, as that is the only way that you are going to get a visitor visa. You have to prove that YOU have the money – not that someone else – who is not related to you or married to you – has it. So – short answer – no. You can certainly come on a tourist visa and see how it goes from there. That should cost you close to nothing, depending on what the policy is in Nigeria.
Interesting post. So good to read how happy u r in Paris, that beautiful, inspiring city. I have lived abroad a lot longer, but some things stay the same. And there is so much to be gained from such an experience! Stay safe these difficult days.
I’ve also had a good experience using xoom.com. It was recently purchased by PayPal, so I don’t know if the fees will go up (currently $4.99/transfer) or if anything will change, but for now I’m a fan.
Do we really have to have our birth certificate??
my appointment is in a few days and i thought i just needed to reshow the documents shown when i got my initial long term visa which did not include a birth certificate…. i am so screwed if that is… since it is deep within a box in a storage unit back in the states..
I’m thinking to go in without the document even if i have to go back instead of canceling/ losing my appointment.
Can’t believe this birth certificate thing!
Heather – you have a 1/100 chance of getting away with this. Worst case, you have everything else in order and when you come back that’s the only document you need to show. There’s always a chance you might not need it. But it’s very, very slim. I would encourage you to get someone to go in there, get it, and overnight it to you. It’s worth the hassle to avoid the hassle.
PS As a general rule and as the blog demonstrates, don’t EVER make assumptions of the French. Really bad idea 🙁
yes, the french are a scary lot indeed.
hello, sorry to keep asking, and i’m kicking myself constantly as i write this…
I know i will not be able to get my birth certificate into my submission files. So in this case would you recommend that i still go to the prefecture knowing that they will ask me to come back with the document?
Or should i cancel and try to book another appointment instead. I fear i may not get an appointment in time though because my visa expires at the end of january 2016…
When they asked you to come back, did you have to get another appointment?
thank you so much for your time…
Let me rephrase the above crazy posting.
I am going to the embassy tomorrow to get my certificate going as you mentioned. My question is more about: Do you need to make another appointment if you had a missing document the first time? How long did that take for you?
Sorry for the messy communication, it is indication of my frazzled condition….
many many, thank yous
ps. can you please let me know the translators you used for this process?
Heather if you send me an email I can connect you with the translator directly.
hello Stephen, i tried clicking on your name link but it takes me to a hosting service. I also looked around but could not find your email address or link anywhere?
can you see my email address? i was required to put it in to post to this thread.
A quick question. You had to produce all these documents to extend your visa for one year. What if I only want to extend mine for 3 months? Will I still need to produce all the documentation you list?
Rob – you need to provide documentation to extend. So, I suppose instead of showing a one year lease, you can show them a 3-month. But there’s no “shorter list” for shorter stays. That’s not how the French work, as I try to indicate on this blog 🙂
Hello Stephen,
First of all thank you for your blog, it is a pleasure to read.
I am also on a long term visitor visa. Actually I have just received my visa so I am not in France yet. There are a few questions I would like to ask, some of them are quite similar to Coleman’s:
– The 270 day minimum stay in France limit. I have just been googling for the last 30 mins and have not found any information. Please share any links maybe? This would really affect my decision of whether or not I should renew my titre when my visa runs out.
– The financial requirement to renew the titre. I read in another post of yours that 1.5 – 2k is sufficient. However, I will be staying with family so rent is free. Does that reduce the amount I need? Please share some experience.
Also I am looking forward to your post on how to change from visitor visa to the path to obtain citizenship.
The 270 day limit was mentioned to me at the prefecture. It’s not really something enforced (because how would they enforce it in a borderless Europe?) – but keep in mind that since I write a public blog I have to share information I’m given. So I only know from the prefecture, so I have no links to share with you.
Yes, I think if you have an attestation that you will not be paying any rent at all that your money requirement will be reduced, but not eliminated.
Finally, I won’t be writing a public blog on how to make the change from visitor to citizen path – the work I did in order to learn how to do it was some of the hardest (and most expensive, in both time and money) work I’ve done so far. For people who are seriously interested I offer some consulting time in blocks of 90 minutes. Some have already met with me for such consulting and it’s been a good experience for both parties.
Stephen this is such great info- you write clearly, thank you for writing this. 2 questions for you-
I’m considering applying for a 6 month long stay, I’m a US citizen.
1 Do you have to enter France from the country you apply for the visa from? (for example fly to France from US vs entering from another European country) Do you have to exit the Schengen zone from France?
2 Can you leave France and travel to other Schengen countries freely during the Visa? (I can’t see why not as there are not border checks in Schengen)
Hope this finds you well
thanks Stephen
Mark – to your first question – no – they don’t care how you get there, just that you get there on or after the date of your visa. Ideally on. I actually had to get my customs guy to stamp on the sheet instructed by OFII, as the French border control agents are so sloppy and rushed. His sloppiness would have caused more trouble for me so I had to watch him carefully before he put a stamp on the wrong place.
As to the second, you’ve answered your own question. They have no idea where you are at any given time, and it’s borderless travel pretty much anywhere in the EU – you are definitely going to be passport-checked in Romania, Hungary, Croatia, and Poland, in my personal experience, especially with a US passport, but that doesn’t have any bearing on your visa.
One more for you Stephen (and thank you again for sharing this knowledge)
some context-
Arriving in Lisbon May 3rd and will make our way to France mid June. Truthfully I want to use the 6 month french long stay to wonder around the schengen including France. My understanding is that the french visa kicks off when I enter France say June 15th, then I can theoretically wander around the Schengen for 6 months after that. (Unless it starts when I land in Portugal?)
Do I have to then exit the Schengen from France to comply with the visa?
I’m still working out how I’m going to prove accommodation, I’ll let you and your readers know when I figure that one out.
Gosh I would love to hear the answer for Mark’s next question of Dec 29th. Can you use the “normal” 3 month visa to tour Spain or Italy beforehand, and then start the 6 month Visa by entering France? And after that “6 month visitor visa D” is used up, can you leave the Schengen Zone for a few days, then reenter and start a fresh new 3 month Visa? Normally, you have to leave Schengen for 3 months, but can you hop into a 3 month visa after only a few days at the end of a “6 month Visitor Visa D”?
Bitsy
I hear differing things regarding this “leave Schengen for one day” business – I’ve been told of a friend of a friend who does it, and I was also told of two friends of readers of this blogged who received massive fines for doing so.
Here’s the tip: if you want to be here in France for more than 3 months, get a visitor visa! I have laid out the steps here and it’s neither expensive nor difficult! Then you don’t have to worry about all this (absurd) Jason Bourne stuff.
Hello, I had a question that I asked on this site and also asked the french Consulate in Los Angeles. Below, is the question and also the answers I got from the french Consulate:
—————————————————
I have a question that I hope you can answer. My husband and I are planning to travel to France this Fall, and we are nearing retirement age and want to travel in France for a longer time period than previous trips.
We will be applying for a “6 month longstay visa” in Los Angeles at the consulate. We plan to travel to France Sept. 1st. Assuming that we will get the “6 month longstay visitor visa D” that starts on Sept. 1st, we are wondering, if we end up being able to, could we leave the USA sooner and enter Italy for a few weeks ahead of the “6 month longstay visitor visa D”? In other words, could we tour Italy on a “regular 3 month Schengen visa”, then leave the Schengen Zone for a week or so (go to Croatia, or UK) and then enter France and start the “6 month longstay visitor visa D”?
Also: When the “6 month longstay visitor visa D” is over, can we document leaving the Schengen Zone, go to Ireland, and then reenter the Schengen zone again a week later as the beginning of another “regular 3 month Schengen visa”?
I do know that a regular visa allows us to be in the Schengen Zone for 90 days out of 180 days. However, with the “6 month longstay visitor visa D”, as it ends, can we start into the regular visa without waiting, and having to leave the Schengen Zone for a full 3 months?
Thank you in advance for your answer.
———————————————-
The day your long stay visa for France expires you have to leave the Schengen area.
Sincerely,
Visa section
Consulate General of France in Los Angeles
———————————————–
Thank you for your reply. When the 6 months are finished, we have to leave the Schengen Zone. Understood. But then in a few days, can we reenter Schengen Zone on a 90 day visa?
———————————————-
Yes, you can enter the Schengen area again (after a few days) without a visa for maximum 90 days every 6 months.
Sincerely,
Visa section
Consulate General of France in Los Angeles
10390 Santa Monica Boulevard, Suite 115
Los Angeles, CA 90025 http://www.consulfrance-losangeles.org
———————————————————
And can we visit Schengen zone on a 90 day visa beforehand, leave, and then come back in to start the “6 months longstay Visa D”?
———————————————————–
No, not prior to your long stay in France. After your long stay in France you can go back to the Schengen area as described.
Sincerely,
Visa section
Consulate General of France in Los Angeles
Stephen, thanks for your answer. Do you think that I will need to have my bank statements translated into French? That would be very expensive, since each one is many pages long. Also, you mention that there’s no shorter list for shorter stays, but when I present myself to the office is there an occasion for me to indicate that I am only wanting to extend for 3 months, not 1 year? I ask this because I am not able to make the case for 1 year, since I absolutely must return to my home country after those 3 additional months? Thanks so much for your help.
Rob – you simply tell them how long you want to renew for. There is a place for that on the form. Just because you were there for a year doesn’t mean you want to renew for a year. Also – where do you bank? Do you not bank with a French bank? If you’ve been here for a year I suspect that they will want to see your French bank account, but if you’ve been living out of your American bank account, you should be able to show them your American bank account statements, untranslated. But you’re asking me about a scenario I’ve never pondered, as I don’t know how someone would live here for a year as a regular part of society without a French bank account, but I feel they are just as likely to ask you for a French translation as they are not. More likely not because you’re asking for so short – and my follow-up is, why don’t you just leave the country (go to London, so you’re out of Schengen, so you get stamped on the way back in) at the end of your visa and come back the next day on a 90-day tourist visa? Free. No hassle. No nonsense. I would never go through this drama for just 3 months. But that’s just me.
Dear Stephen, I promise I will only badger you with this one additional question. I thought about leaving and coming back, as you recommend, but I was under the impression that if I leave and the end of my long stay visa I would need to stay gone for a period of time before returning under a tourist visa. Am I incorrect? I hope I am, because it would save a major hassle.
you are actually in major luck, IF you have a 1-year long stay visa (such as the initial France visitor’s visa), are from 1 of the visa-free countries that normally allows 90 days upon entry, and if all you want is another 90 days.
See Article 5b, where it says: “Periods of stay authorised under a residence permit or a long-stay visa shall not be taken into account in the calculation of the duration of stay on the territory of the Member States.”
I’m no lawyer either, but there’s plenty of discussion out there that says you could still take advantage of the normal 90 days visa-free allowance starting the day after your long-term stay expired– you don’t even need to do the proposed “visa run” to London.
*By the way, re showing that link and making a case: the risk is far greater when you are *leaving* Schengen then when arriving. This used to be counter-intuitive to me but is very true. Immigration is very strict all over Schengen these days re over-staying, so don’t mess with the rules.
Just to follow up, given Ken’s helpful remarks and link below, I received confirmation from the French Consulate in San Francisco that I am indeed able to leave France on the date of the expiration of my long-stay visa, travel to a non-Schengen country, and then return to France under a normal 90-day tourist visa. But they did say that I must make certain that I get a stamp on the way out and on the way in. So Ken, while your interpretation of the law is compelling, it’s probably not a risk I would want to take.
Rob – agree with your assessment.
Well – as I said – who is going to be checking that? Do you think they are going to flip through your passport, find your OFII stamp, then do the math and realize your visa just ended and ask why the hell you are in France? Or are they going to see you as a tourist, and flip to the closest page available and stamp and wave you through? My bets are on door #2. This is also where I remind you that I offer advice, but I’m no lawyer or immigration expert. Just someone who’s been through the paces with these people.
I was reading through this thinking, “This guy totally should hear about the Story of Stuff.” Then I got to the end of your post, and there it is!
I just moved from Missouri to Germany at the end of September. I packed my few boxes in my aunt’s basement and left my books for her and my sisters. I checked two suitcases and had one carry-on. When I got here I was able to get used cookware and what not for free from friends. I’m actually enjoying living with less, and often find myself thinking that I even brought too much!
I am reading Ferriss now too. But strange, I live in Italy and would like to come to the USA! I already uncluttered under the suggestions of Marie Kondo, so ok for the stuff. My problem now is the work, I am a clerk and fear to quit.
I would use the Toyota “five whys” method, starting with “What do you fear?” then ask why to whatever your answer is to that, etc. until you get to your core answer. “Fear” is not concrete enough. Be specific.
Hi, I will reiterate Monica’s (unanswered) question: What’s the deal with the apt insurance? I have stayed at long stay vacation rentals and similar, so no utility bills nor insurance, but an informal “lease” from landlord worked to get my titre de sejour. To do (my first) renewal, will apt insurance be a new required thing (like needing a birth certificate even tho it wasnt needed to get original visa)? Or did you only need it because it was somehow entailed in the lease you produced in your paperwork?
Bruce
As I stated, yes, you need to bring insurance for your property. It’s not a “new required thing” because you’re assuming that the renewal process is like the process for the original visa – except it’s different on a number of levels. My “job” on this blog is to get people as prepared as I know possible. So sending you to one of these appointments without insurance (which is both inexpensive and easy to obtain) would be remiss of me. And careless of you. You have to be prepared to produce even the things that are not listed on the sheet they give you at the prefecture. This is how the French work and I try to constantly make that clear on the blog – Bring everything, and even more than everything 🙂
hmmm…I’m not sure what renters insurance would even mean for someone like me who has been staying at essentially hotels (i.e. residence hotels) for up to 2 or 3 months at each location…I was hoping you would say that the only reason the French Govt would even care about it was that it was a required part of your particular lease, and hence was considered part of proving that you had a valid one.
Hello Steven,
My girlfriend and I are planning to stay for 12 months beginning July of 2016. Our purpose of our stat will be to learn the language and explore the culture. That being said I’ve noticed that the visa process is primarily based on individual income. I own my own business and am able to direct deposit the required amount of funds into whichever one of our personal accounts in order to show sufficient income. That being said I would prefer to avoid having to direct deposit our annual living budget (80K-100K) twice into individual accounts if at all possible. If I were to direct deposit a portion of the funds into my own account, the other portion into her account and we transferred both sets of funds into a joint account that is in both of our names would we both be able to use that joint account for verification of income?
On a side note, do you have any tips on finding a place to stay? We would love a beautiful view in the heart of the city under 2500 euros if possible.
John – last question first – give the guys at parisexpat.com a look. They’ve got some good properties and work well with English speakers.
As for the income issue – I think it might make more sense if you had a joint account – then you can both claim access to it?
Ah – Bruce – I misunderstood – I didn’t realize you meant you had been staying at short-term rentals during this past year – I thought you meant in the past, just as a point of reference about insurance in general.
So, in that case – I don’t think your problem will be with renter’s insurance. If the French are okay with you moving around every few months, they certainly won’t care about renter’s insurance. I’m not sure why you chose to do that, as it doesn’t show a lot of stability, but I don’t think you’re required to stay in any one place. It just makes your visa application simple if you do. I’ve never heard of anyone applying for a one-year visa after moving around during that one year, so keep us posted on what happens so others can learn. 🙂
Hi there,
I wrote you an email with some queries but had an additional one that’s relevant to the ones here so thought I’ll pop it in here. I’m currently subletting and have no written lease. My intention is to submit an attestation d’hébergement + facture électricité (under the name of my landlord) with his ID. My first visa has a different address and so I intend to state that I’ve only just moved. Question: I have a bank transfer record of the rent I’ve paid in Nov. Should I include that in my dossier or make it out that I’m not paying rent at all (which was the case in my first visa application) ? That way I’m off the hook for any official documents trying to prove where I live.
I obviously don’t have renter’s insurance and can’t get one.
Candice
I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking. You are providing “official documents” proving where you live in the form of the ADH and the EDF you are going to provide. If you have no written lease you clearly can’t just fabricate one now.
Remember that although this is a renewal, there is no institutional memory. When they sit down with you, it’s almost a new application – they are going to look through all the documents again. Yes, it’s a renewal, but don’t feel like “because this is how I did it last time this is how I have to do it this time.”
I also don’t know why you would have to prove you pay rent when you already have an ADH?
I’ve found your blog to be quite interesting and helpful! I hope to move to Paris as you have done later this year and I’m soaking up as much information as I can about living there!
I get what you’re saying about frozen food, but what about leftovers? How do you (and presumably, Parisians) feel about leftovers?
Also, what 3 dishes should I learn to cook before moving there?
Brooke the nice thing about French cooking is…you don’t need leftovers! You cook and eat *enough.* I never have leftovers here because it’s not a problem. Whereas in the US you have places like the Cheesecake Factory where you might as well order two boxes to go as soon as you order your salad, since it’s enough to feed an entire village, usually.
Three dishes you should learn before moving here? Well, you are going to impress/scare the French if you can cook their food before you even get here, but let’s go simple, okay?
Coq au Vin
Blanquette de Veau
and a standard steak/frites
I’m very old-school in my French culinary tastes so if you’re looking for something a bit more avant-garde, I’m not your guy 🙂
Actually by leftovers I mean like taking what you made last night to work the next day for lunch or having the same thing for dinner the next night. I made a dish last night to last me most of the week because of my busy schedule.
Brooke – I tend to cook for just me without too much left over, because I like to cook. If I have some leftovers its usually just enough for a snack which I might have at tea as a lunch replacement.
Very helpful info! Somewhat off-topic, have you had to convert your American drivers license to a French one or have any experience with that? We are coming up on our 1 year and planning for the visa renewal, but also understand we are meant to have converted our licenses within the year as well. Were you/ have you ever been asked for your French license?
Naomi – I’m not a driver here – I drove over a million kilometers when I lived in America and bask in the beauty of public transportation supplemented by taxis and uber. If you don’t convert your license within one year, you won’t be able to, and will be dumped into their arcane system of driver’s education and training. So, if you have any intention of staying here long term AND driving, you better get your license.
For me, the hassle and trade off of not keeping my American license, when you can use it for so many things there, including domestic travel, I made the conscious decision NOT to get a French license. I may write on this topic at some point.
Hi Stephen,
My question is that whether I should prove that I pay rent to fulfil the criteria of having a Quittance de Loyer, as that may strengthen my case. The ADH is written by my landlord and the EDF is under his name (as stated in my original reply). Hence, I can get one without a written lease. The purpose of the EDF is to prove that he is connected to the property. Yes, I get your point on forgetting the first time, but the reason why I’m drawing on the previous experience is to explore the options on how I should present my case.
As far as I know, most sublets do NOT have a formal written lease in Paris that’s legally actionable. And that causes a problem.
I hope this clarifies?
Candice – I think you’re making a huge distinction between ADH and QDL as proofs of residence – except there’s not such a big distinction at the prefecture. And it’s not the part of your application that receives the most attention. All they want to know is that you are staying in France legally in some kind of regular residence. If you were able to obtain your visa with an ADH (which was perfectly acceptable to OFII when I presented one for my 90-day visit after I first arrived) I don’t see why it wouldn’t do in a renewal situation.
Furthermore, you don’t have to “prove you pay rent” in order to get a QDL. Your landlord issues you one or doesn’t – you don’t have to provide a QDL AND proof you pay rent to the prefecture. The QDL is its own standalone document that says you are in good standing at that place, though a QDL is going to lead to the follow up question of “where’s your renter’s insurance”?
In my case, I have a lease and renter’s insurance, and have since about the 3rd month I lived in Paris, but even then, when it came to this point in the interview, my inspector glanced at the lease to verify that the address was the same, then put it onto her “done” pile, then looked at my insurance to see that it matched the address, ran her fingers along the policy limits, then flipped it onto the done pile. Probably about 20 seconds altogether.
Do I think that they may look a bit more closely at an ADH + EDF + someone else’s ID? Sure. But I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker. As long as you can explain your situation, and have documentation to back yourself up, you should be fine. Does that help?
Hi Stephen,
Yes thanks heaps. I’m just overthinking this in true French fashion of pre-empting the possible obstacles they could throw to complicate everything. I keep being settled at what I have and then I’ll go into panic mode and think of other documents that I can add to my dossier! Especially in this case, a QDL was mentioned (as an OR though). Honestly, I am baffled by their acceptance of an attestation in such a manner while being notoriously a stickler for admin. Back in Australia, we call it a statutory declaration and it needs to be witnessed by a Justice of Peace or other notarised persons. Thank goodness no such thing here else it’ll really do my head in! Cheers.
NP. Keep us updated, okay? Let us know how it goes. Bonne chance!
Please do a post on joining social security in France. I have heard that it is possible to buy into the system if you pay taxes in France and that it is much cheaper than private insurance. Thanks.
Hi Stephen! I’m so glad I found your blog! I have an appointment in May (travel date is end of August). The consulate requires a contract for at least 3 months. In your experience, does an airbnb booked for 3 months suffice? Alternatively, how can I get a 3 month contract (preferably one that can be broken) ahead of time?
Melissa
Where you live is it common to find 3 month contracts that can be broken? That’s what we call “month to month” here, and people rarely do that, given what a premium it is to have an apartment inside the periphique.
May I suggest you simply get an attestation de hebergement, possibly from your airbnb host, rather than try to find a person willing to give you a 3 month breakable lease? 😉
Thanks for your reply! You make a good point. I tried looking up Attestation de hebergement but am still a bit confused… Is there an official form I can find, or is it just a letter signed by the host? I’m assuming it should be notarized as well, yes?
I had a bon voyage party for me and my friends right before my first trip to Paris and was given this book. Very cute and funny!
Melissa – not an official form – it just needs to identify the person, identify you, say you’re living there for X amount of time, and to be doubly safe, should come with a photocopy of the person’s ID and EDF. If you can only get a photocopy of the ID that’s fine. Saves a trip to the notary which is expensive and unnecessary.
Is there an online/easy way to get renters insurance (with a French document, because I assume it has to be in French)? Or who is the guy you mentioned? I don’t have a french bank account (no french income) so I’d rather not set foot in one.
btw – I didn’t have 3 months left on my long stay visitor visa (only 2, which is when the French consulate in Miami told me ON A PRINTED DOCUMENT to go for renewal) so I went to the Paris prefecture anyway. They would not let me in. They said make an appointment (via the online site), and as long as you made the appointment before the visa expires it is ok. We’ll see how it plays out.
Brian – did the document tell you to go to the Prefecture for an appointment and neglect to say “make an appointment”? This might be a lost in translation moment – the staff at the consulate might have thought in their French brains, “Surely he won’t go to the Prefecture without an appointment…imagine what would happen if we allowed that”? 🙂
You’ll be fine as long as you got a date.
The document which I received last April from the French consulate in Miami says (in English) something like “to renew your long stay visa go to the prefecture within the last two months before it expires” and “They will give you a list of things you need and you can make an appointment”. Bad information, obviously. But that is what it says.
Lol – I got something similar – mine looked like it was a photocopy of a photocopy. Sorry they were lazy but glad you had enough time!
Hello!!
It Is June and my visa ends on October 16. My passport expired June 2017. Two questions, can I still renew my long stay visa even though it’s past the 6 month mark? And will I need to renew my passport before the appointment since if I get the extension it would be valid beyond June 2017?
Thanks!!!
Val you can’t do a “renewal” on an expired visa. You can apply for a new one. As for your passport, that’s not really relevant – as long as it’s valid at the time you present it (and isn’t expiring within a few months) you’ll be fine – but in general I say don’t wait until your passport is nearly expired to renew.
I just found your blog and it’s wonderful!
This post in particular is really speaking to me right now. I’m going through just the same, trying to fit 30 years of accumulation into a few large overseas shipping boxes and some suitcases. My husband has already made this sort of move when he first came to the usa from france so he seems to be having no issue with tossing or donating his this….me on the other hand, I feel like it’s a constant fight to move things out of the “keep” pile. My only saving grace is the $ signs that pop up when I start thinking about how much it will cost me to ship more than what we already have!
Hi Stephen, Thanks for writing this. Could you let me know where you had your birth certificate translated? Also, you wrote that we’d need 12 months of bank statements. On the prefecture’s list of requirements, the way I understood it is they want to see a bank statement showing you have money equivalent to 12 months worth of salary (for someone earning minimum wage) at the time of application. So just your recent statement, not one that goes 12 months back? Thanks again.
June – if you send me an email I can get you my translator’s information.
If you are speaking about your original application, yes, you are correct, and to an extent, for the renewal as well. The reason for the 12 months of bank statements is that you are a) demonstrating that you are living here in France and b) are not making income here. I have had readers tell me that they have gone in with bank statements certifying a large amount of capital and that has been satisfactory.
HI Stephen, just wondering if have you heard any more about whether these bank statements need to be translated into French? I have an australian bank account and am worried that the cost of translating 12 months would be huge! thanks 🙂
Lisa – I think that 12 months of original (in English) Australian bank statements, along with a letter, in French, from your bank, which testifies to your moving daily/monthly balance, should do the trick.
The aduciel website provide above does not function correctly. If anyone has an easy way to get renters insurance in Paris without having a French bank account, please advise. The amount of time I have spent researching and trying to obtain is now at the ridiculous level.
Dude, you were so immensely helpful! Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
I thought I would go to Chicago and just start filling out forms and leave with my Visa.
Our situation is completely different as we will be retiring and relocating to France, which means I’m not sure how the proof of income thing works.
Heidi
If you really thought that I think you might examine whether you should really be retiring and relocating to France 🙂
In all seriousness, though, have you ever spent more than 2 weeks here? If you haven’t, I would just come on a 90 tourist visa (no paperwork) and make sure that you really want to do this. I’m always wary of people declaring they want to retire someplace when they haven’t “pregamed” that place yet. Spend 3 months here. You’ll know for sure by then.
The proof of income for you is the same as for any visitor – you just have to prove sufficient income. Just show them a retirement account that will provide you with sufficient income. Or your social security payments. Etc.
Thank you Stephen, yes, we’ve been there. My whole family is in love with France. However, we do intend to rent for a year, at least, visiting the areas we are interested in possibly settling down.
Cool! Well if I can help in any way, please let me know 🙂
Hi Stephen, My original insurance provider is unable to provide a policy in French. Can you please give me the information for your agent?
Sure – send me an email and I’ll get it to you.
I’m having trouble emailing you. Can you send you me your email address or email me?
Patricia – sent you an email.
Thanks for all the info. I have 2 questions. Do you need the same things for the 3rd year, etc? In other words, Do you need a new translated birth certificate, marriage certificate, etc. each year? Second, since my husband and I will have two separate appointments – do we EACH need everything original for the long stay visa the first time and each subsequent time? Thank you!
Karen
Karen
Once you have an “official” translated document that’s good for life. The translation doesn’t expire.
I don’t quite understand your second question.
For anyone needing renter’s insurance (which is everybody needing to renew a long stay visitor visa): The US embassy website has a list of resources on various topics, including insurance.
After I emailed them and filled out a form, they mailed me the certificate/document I need. I haven’t had my visa appointment yet, but I do have a document that (I think) says I have renter’s insurance.
Brian – thanks for this, and let us know how it works out!
Hi Stephen, this blog post is SO helpful!!! i was just wondering, i cant get my health insurance policy in French (and as you say to get it translated would be expensive). can you please tell me who your insurance provider was?
Lisa – email me directly and I’ll connect you with them.
Hi I’m also an US expat I love the concept of your blog . I’ve been dying to talk to someone like you about one point. Driver’s licence. Would it be ok for you to tel us more about it?
Hi sorry it took me too long to reply ! thank that is all of the info that i needed thank you ! how are you doing? Thanks I’m still working on it and on the concept, i hope that this year i can get some more time to blog on it. I just had so much on my plate for the past 2 years now (wow), with work and all. Are you still in France?
I’ve been reading your blog for a while now and have to say I enjoy this glimpse into “the system.” My husband and I hope to move to France one day. Our situation will be different than yours (retirement or, fingers crossed, the arts visa), but it’s nice to see someone’s look into the reality of dealing with all the bureaucracy.
Hey, can you please help me figure out where I can get a translation of my birth certificate? I have my original and it is in Russian, though I am now an American Citizen, I carry a US passport, but am here studying french. Thank you!
Stella if you send me an email I can connect you with a translator.
done! 🙂
Is there an English version of the long stay questionnaire?
Andrea I’m guessing it depends on which consulate you’re going to. I would check with them.
This is so true…that Carte Noire “le baiser” ad is the absolute worst! There was a pretty horrific Audi ad playing for a while as well. Glad I’m not the only one who laughs at these 😀
Hi Stephen, Just a question on the total amount needed in your bank account. if the minumum wage is around 1,500 to 2000 euros per month so you would require a total of about minimum 20,000 euros in your account to present to them is that correct?
James – yes – or an account you have access to, like a 401K or something you are a signatory to. Alternatively, something that shows you will be receiving the necessary monthly income, either a letter from an employer or a bank.
I have to find this book ! I love Paris! Thank you!
Hi Stephen, just got a quick question. Do you have to surrender your old carte de sejour? Would you be able to still travel with just the recipisse? thanks
Naomi – yes, traveling with the recipisse is sufficient – but I’ve recently been traveling in Schengen, and as usual, have not even had to show my passport, much less my French ID, but I applaud your thoroughness in bringing it along (I left it at home 🙂 )
I’m not headed anywhere really – just got back and moving to Paris at the end of August! Saving up all my coins for the move 🙂
I just returned from the prefecture with my recipisse (receipt?) for my carte de sejour. They gave me another appointment 3 months from now to pick up the actual card. Here are my tips for US citizens renewing their long stay visa:
Prefecture Meeting: I have a fairly large amount of money in my US-based bank/brokerage account. I showed them the most recent one month statement and that was sufficient. (I had a year’s worth of bank activity printed and ready as a back-up). However, the woman said “You need a bank account in France next year”, implying for the next visa renewal I will need to have a French bank account. My bank statement was in English.
Important NOTE: I was surprised by this: I WAS REQUIRED TO SHOW THEM MY OFII MEDICAL VISIT DOCUMENT. This is a document you receive when you complete your OFII medical visit after your first arrive in Paris. Thankfully I had everything with me in a folder, so I had this document. It has a couple of stamps on it… and unfortunately the woman at the prefecture took the original – I hope I do not need it again for the next renewal. (Of course, the fact that I have the OFII stamp in my passport indicates I passed the medical visit, but they wanted the document today anyway.)
So the documents they took were:
– Renter’s Insurance
– Health Insurance
– Bank statement
– OFII medical visit
– EDF power electricity document (A QDL document from your landlord if you do not have a power bill)
– Birth certificate (translated into French, cost me 50 euros, can’t recommend my translator, too bad for her)
So thanks to Stephen for the information. Hopefully this summary is beneficial to someone.
Hi Stephen,
thank you for this information. One question, how long do you need to renew the long term stay visa before it ends? Because I currently have a 6 month visa and I was hoping to get another 3 months after that under a tourist visa (by simply leaving and re-entering the country after the long stay visa ends) before renewing my long stay visa.
Thank you!
Cheejun
I’m a bit confused by your question. If you mean, can you stay as a tourist for 90 days after your visa ends by exiting and then returning, the answer is yes. If the question is, can you renew after being under a tourist visa, then the answer is no, as you can’t “renew” something that is expired. You would need to apply for a new visa.
Just a quick question, do they absolutely require a French/American bank account or any bank account will do? Because my family lives in Singapore and I was hoping to get my dad to print his bank statement and vouch that he will support me financially should I extend my visa (is that possible too?).
Thank you for everything!
Mark
Since I’m writing the American in Paris blog, I will refer to “American” bank accounts but surely a Singaporean would not be using an American account, right? As far as renewal goes, the reason I say a French account is the way to go is because then that part is easier. If you have a letter in French from your father, along with a letter from your bank, in French, noting that you have access to these accounts, and then all the statements of the accounts in English, then I think you could possibly be okay. But giving him a bunch of English-spoken bank accounts with an explanation in English? That’s not going to work.
Hey Stephen!
Just came across your blog- the info are so helpful!
I do have a question though- I have a long stay student visa that allow me to start on the 21st August, but i have to go to France earlier on the 13th to take care of the house renting process , do you think I can make it with a reasonable explanation to the customs Officials?
Thanks so much for your reply in advance!
Emily is the visa a sticker in your passport?
Hey stephan!
Thank so much For replying- yes it is!
I would really find out whether you can show up before the date in the visa. Otherwise, come in through another Schengen zone country like Spain or Germany and then come into France that way and avoid explanations.
Your blog is fabulous and informative! It has helped us so much to be prepared. We are having difficulty finding health insurance. We have an apartment in Grasse and also in New York. We are retired and wish to obtain a long stay visa so we are not subject to the 90 day/6 month rule. Our daughter and her family currently live in Geneva; hence, we would like to spend extended time in EU. Insurance I am finding limits the time one can spend when returning to USA. If we exceed the limit, the policy is canceled. Any suggestion would be appreciated. Thanks.
Lesia – email me and I will get you connected.
Hi Stephen, Im trying to get a head start on the process and i was wondering if they need a long copy of the birth certificate or will an abstract work? Does it need to be less than 6months old? Also, is an apostille required? (Im also going through the process for a pacs and they require a long version less than 6months old with apostille so im hoping to only have to order them once!)
Cheers and thanks for the helpful post!
Abbey
Abbey – none of those bells and whistles required. Abstract plus certified translation will be A-OK.
Stephen,
Well, I cannot thank you enough for this article. How nerve wrecking it has been, to get some of these things understood, and you have helped tremendously.
The only concern I have left is the Attestation d’accueil, or accommodation certificate. All I have is a friend whom I am staying with, who did write a letter stating she is housing me, and I have copies of her passport and rental agreement, but I see that she may need to get something more formal authorized at the city hall.
I leave to Chicago to turn my papers in, in four days. I’m so worried…I do t have anything official for my accommodation. It would be sad, because anyone can docture a hotel email receipt.
Any advise?
Marcus
I wouldn’t worry. You’ve done the best you can in your circumstances. Remember that I didn’t have all my paperwork ready the first day myself. They will tell you what you need to get and you’ll get it! 😉
You’re so great in responding, again, I thank you. You sharing experiences on this blog help as well…what a great move!
Al the best!
Aaron Marcus
Stephen,
Wow…took less than three business days to get my visa! Whohooo! You certainly helped, and I thank you for that. There were no issues with my documents, and the accommodation was sufficient with my friend’s copy of rental agreement, utility bill, a copy of her passport, and a signed letter from her stating I would be staying with her. I provided a lot of supporting documents for my income, which I think they are more concerned about. The process too about one hour, including waiting there on a Friday afternoon. Thanks again for your blog, and guidance to all of us!
We are all about happy conclusions here, Aaron. Welcome, and if you find yourself in Paris, do look me up!
I would like that…and will be there November time frame.
My current situation.
1. Working as an IT consultant for LOREAL USA
2. Will be travelling to France on a business trip and need to stay for more than 90 days.
3. Purpose of Travel: Meetings with LOREAL IT colleagues in France for training, visiting L’Oréal factories , collaborating team members on IT project for LOREAL .
4. My first date of travel is 9/2/2016, and will be travelling multiple times in next 1 year.
5. I will not be paid in France
6. US Citizen , MS is Engineering , 15 Years IT Experience
I believe a long stay VISA is required because the total duration of stay in France is more than 90 days.
Pls advise what type of VISA is required and the procedure /steps to get the VISA.
before explaining what the law states I would like to describe a couple of scenarios which should illustrates how to handle the situation:
1 – you will have several “short stays” over a period of 1 year.
A solution could be for you to have no immigration documentation, each stay is about 2 months, maybe less maybe more but never more than 3 months. You make you sure that you do not stay more than 6 months per calendar year.
You stay strictly within the Schengen regulation, since you leave before 3 month stay and less than 6 months for the fiscal residency.
2 – you are not sure that you can limit each stay within 90 days
A solution would be to ask on your own merit a long stay i.e., immigration visa, called “visiteur” which allows you to stay in France but not work in France. Since you maintain all your tied with the American company and you are working in France.
This is the lowest level of immigration status and the requirements are:
Showing that you have accessible about $22,000 in an account including a retirement one,
Showing that you have secured an address in France which can be a hotel,
Showing that you have secured a comprehensive health insurance company. Loreal France should be able to help you with that.
3 – LOREAL France wants you to be able be integrated in the French company even if you are not working.
Then they need to start an expat (cadre détaché) procedure which has no chances to be done by Sept. 2nd.
Therefore considering the fact that you only have a week before leaving the safest thing could be the 1st one and see what kind of immigration status do you need if any. If Loreal does not want to help then 2 – visiteur is your only alternative.
Giri
There’s an answer from the Pro himself, Jean Taquet. Hope that helps!
Yes, very much so. The odometer turns on the end of my third year this December 🙂
My husband and I are moving to Paris from Manhattan/New York permanently. Since we are retired we have problems finding health insurance despite the fact that we are in outstanding health. Can you recommend a health insurance company who insures retirees? After 3 months of permanent stay we will sign with the PUMa. Still, for the long-stay visa we need proof of health insurance for one year. We will cancel it as soon as we have the Carte Vitale.
I would have emailed you directly, but couldn’t find your email address.
Thank you so much for your help
Marie – my email address is on the right hand side of the blog. If you look there and email me I can assist you further.
Hi Stephen, I am so happy to come across your blog while searching for information on long stay visa application. I know all along it’s not going to be easy. But thanks to your details description at least now I am not entirely clueless. I also LOVE your closing paragraph about living the life on your own terms and I wish I will get to do the same! THANK YOU! ~Allison
Do keep us posted on your progress!
Bonjour Stephen! I am thoroughly enjoying your BLOG. Thank you! Good job! I see that you were able to renew your Visitors Visa in France, which is not what I have been told at all. Good news. I have a question. If I come first on a 90 day visa–I am American, can I leave France and go to another Country other than all the way back to America to re-enter for another 90 days. I want to check it out first, I think, but not be illegal at all.
Yes, but you have to leave the Schengen Area, and you cannot re-enter for 3 more months. Then you can come back and max out your 6 total months in the year on a tourist visa.
Hi there and thank you!
I would love help. My long term visitor Visa expires January 14th and I have been trying to book an appointment on line but I cannot get the website to work and I cannot get through on the call.
I would be going to Montpellier… or I could go to Nime.
Help! All I want to do is set my appointment 🙂
Thank you!
Laurie
I went to the Paris prefecture and they would NOT make an appointment for me. They said the only options were online of telephone. Try someone else’s phone or computer/browser.
Dear Ms. Strickland,
Stephen Heiner forwarded your email message.
I believe that you have the long stay visa and also the OFII stamp which you got once you finished the medical visit.
Legally speaking the OFII stamp is your immigration ID and its validity is the same as your visa. Therefore the information you need to book the appointment with the prefecture is on this stamp and not the visa. Indeed on the upper left corner there 3 numbers the last of the 3 is “le numéro d’étranger” which is the one used by the prefecture as an ID Nº for your length of your stay. The system generates the confirmation of the appointment called “convocation” which has your ID Nº. It also give you the list of documents to bring at the meeting. Make sure that the file is complete
This is the most common difficulty when people try to book an appointment through the website.
Doing it through the phone it used to be very difficult as the line was busy all the time. Today I find a lot easier after navigating through the choices offered. The very first thing again that is asked is the ID Nº. This phone number is not easily found on the site, 01.56.95.26.80.
Last comment you are better off taking the very 1st appointment of the day 8:45. Yes you wait at least 30 minutes outside the building as it is better to show before 8AM but you end up being one of the very first ones arriving in that office and you are out of there within just one hour.
This is for the prefecture in Paris, the other prefectures have pretty much the same procedure.
Hi Stephen,
I just had my interview with the French Consulate this morning for a long term student visa. They took all my paperworks, asked me no question, fingerprint, paid the fee and took my passport with a prepaid fedex envelope. is this a good sign that i will get approved?
All the Best,
Sophia
Sophia if they didn’t have any clarifying questions for you at the time of the interview, then yes, I think it’s a good sign you will be approved.
Hello Stephen , I’m not sure if this would be the right place for my question. I’ve been searching for answers all over the internet but in vain. I’m trying my luck here, if you could help me with this that would be great.
I’m an Indian working in France now. I came for my masters M2 and have been living in France since August 2015. I would like to bring my spouse to France at the beginning of next year. I found that “long stay visitor visa” type seem to match for this purpose. I would like to know roughly about the contents to be written for the “purpose letter”.
Hello Arun
This is not an area I feel competent advising in (bringing a spouse who was not previously part of your visa application). I have emailed you privately and connected you with a professional who can assist you further.
Thanks for this article, I have been searching the internet for more information on this topic and there is very little out there, so this is great!
I am looking to do the visitor visa application to join my boyfriend (a French guy) in France for about 6 months. I am unsure about the letter of employment however, since I will be leaving my job for this period. I should have sufficient proof of finances to support me during this stay, however I am concerned that they will require me to be employed in the US in order to approve. Do you have any further insight into this?
Thanks!
Sara
Sarah I have assisted numerous people with this and you do not have to be employed. Just have proof of access to sufficient income.
Hi Stephen,
Great, thank you! That is reassuring to hear 🙂
I’m surprised by the jump in food costs. I’m currently surviving off of Picard and Marks & Spencer (I refuse to cook in my shoebox in St. Germain) but I figured once I moved to a place with a regular kitchen, my costs would go down. The markets seem to be fairly cheap.
Yet another piece of (possibly useful) information: I now have my plastic “titre de sejour” card. I’ve been through this process once already. So now I am planning ahead and trying to make an appointment early… months prior to my visa expiring… so I don’t have to worry about what I’ll do if they won’t renew it (which they will/should, but I don’t like to worry) next year.
Guess what? You can NOT make an appointment for a time prior to your visa expiring. Right now I am 5 months prior to visa expiration, and the 1st appointment shown as available is the 1st day AFTER my visa expires. So unless the visa office is closed from now until May 2nd, they aren’t letting me make an appointment until after my visa is officially expired. Unreal.
Such a long delay at the Paris prefecture has existed for a long time for some offices. Private life is indeed about that time. Now there is ZERO, truly NO need to ask for an appointment before the card expires. It is even detrimental to you to have an appointment too early as you could lose some months on the validity of the card as they tend to start the new card the day of the appointment in those circumstances. If you past a few weeks and even more a few months, you can always ask for a ‘récépissé’ to bridge until the day of the appointment.
Maybe some appointments will open up also if you check often. Maybe. Good luck.
never count on that those prefecture appointments are worth close to gold. Exceedingly rare they are cancelled. Also once you have one appointment you cannot get a new one unless you cancel it before and running the risk of losing both as the better deal will surely be gone by the time you can choose it!
Hi Stephen,
Sooo my passport does not expire until 2019 and i only have exactly 2 blank pages. Will the long-term visa take up one of those pages and is that acceptable or should i think about getting a new visa?
Thanks so much
Anh
Yes it will take up a whole page and yes you should get a new passport before then.
I am retired and make the trip to France frequently but hate to leave after only 3 months there. I just left France on December 1 but would have liked to stay during Christmas. At any rate, I have already made air line reservations to stay 3 months (beginning in April) and have written a lease for the same 3 months (while I was in France last month). I plan to make an application to stay 6- 12 months and if and when approved for a Visa would change the air line reservations and lease so that I will arrive earlier and leave later. Also, my appointment with the French Consulate is in late December, more than 3 months before my scheduled arrival time in April, but not when I would prefer to depart which would be February. Can this work? Or do I have to make reservations now that show a stay longer than 3 months? and a departure time within 3 months? Thank you in advance for your help.
Dan you have a number of scattered questions. Let me try to get you focused.
No, you cannot go to a consulate more than 90 days before your departure. It says that specifically on the consulate’s website.
When you make up your mind about when you want to go, walk back 90 days in the calendar and that’s the soonest you can go to the consulate. If you follow the directions in this post from that point, you will get a visa. 🙂
Thank you, Stephen. You are most helpful. So, does that mean I don’t need to show an “e-ticket” for my departure date? I would like to depart on February 15 (within the 90 days of submitting my application), but to be on the safe side, I made air line reservations for the first of April (which I could cancel). Thanks again!
Dan – as I said above – my checklist does not include your needing to show them an “e-ticket.” Again, you are obtaining permission to enter their country – a ticket seems to indicate you will get a positive response. Get permission first. I repeat, the French (or any government for that matter) don’t care whether you actually come here during this part of the visa process. You are simply obtaining permission to come. Once you do that, and then you actually do come, there are other steps to complete (which I have outlined). Of course, it is perfectly sensible to, as you have done, buy tickets. But as far as I know, it is not a part of your application.
I should have mentioned that unlike Chicago, the San Francisco Consulate does make it part of the application and clearly states #13 requirement, “E-TICKET OR RESERVATION CONFIRMATION EMAIL SHOWING THE SATE OF DEPARTURE TO
EUROPE. http://www.consulfrance-sanfrancisco.org/spip.php?article2703
Dan – I stand corrected! Thank you! This is a great piece of info for any of the readers of the blog, though, it surprises me for the reasons I said above – having a ticket presumes a positive response, in a certain way. Nevertheless, follow directions – that’s the key message of this blog 🙂 Bring the e-ticket with the date that matches your request. If other readers have experienced this requirement, please feel free to share with us!
Just a follow up – it looks like the visa appointment lead time right now is SIX MONTHS. It does not appear contingent upon the expiration date of my visa. But it means you must make your appointment SIX MONTHS prior to when you want it. (This is for the prefecture in Paris). Unbelievable…
(and M. Taquet – there are plenty of reasons to want your visa finalized before it’s expiration date)
BT – Were you able to make an appointment six months in advance prior to your expiration? My understanding was that the online system would only accept a person’s request no more two months before expiration. Appreciate your info.
Right now I am 6 months prior to expiration. The online site went through the process of taking my titre sejour number, birthdate, etc. then gave me next available appointment times.
The earliest appointment date that is available is 6 months from now. That is AFTER the expiration of my visa. It looks like I can go ahead and make this appointment reservation, but I won’t be in town at that time. So I have to wait for LATER times to become available. Because of this I did not go ahead and MAKE my reservation/appointment. However it looks like I just make the reservation like I did last time and it will give me the appointment for 6 months from now.
Maybe what you heard is that you can obtain an appointment date that is at most 2 months prior to your visa expiration date. I do not know if that is the case. For me to have tried to get an appointment date 3 months prior to my visa expiration it looks like I would have had to make an appointment about 3 months ago – which is actually about the time when I picked up my card from the office from LAST YEAR’s renewal process.
I will update on this blog about 1 month from now when I accept an appointment time for June.
BT – ok, that makes sense. Thank you for your response.
You are welcome and keep in mind that the Paris prefecture is currently massive renovation and this disorganises some their work AND has recently set up the text message alert to pick up the new card when ready. It is not properly working either. So people need to be very careful when renewing their immigration status in Paris right now and probably for most of 2017.
These 2 months come from OFII and clearly they have not followed the steady increase in the delay to obtain the appointment. These last days, I had clients arguing I was wrong since the French administration stated 2 months. Then when they saw the appointment secured 2 days after the expiration date, the discussion changed.
I confirm the blocking of the prefecture if one tries more than 6 months before. I also confirm that the appointments are issued right now about 6 months in advance. It is quite unusual and I do not have an explanation for this.
I know that they are valid reasons for people to attempt to book an appointment before the expiration date. The risk is that the new card starts at the date of the meeting and not the expiration date of the old card. People decide if this is worth it.
I totally agree. Home is where you feel at peace. I am not there yet. If i could I would move to Paris in a heart beat. Money and my age at the moment stop me. However I am busy working on it.
Thank you Stephen. My family and I are making the deliberate decision to move to Paris next June. We have experienced the question “Why?” every time we tell someone our plans, the second question is always “Do you have family there?” and our answer is “No.” “Is it for work?” is inevitably the third question, and our answer to that is also a resounding “No.”, as my husband works for a company in Australia (our country of birth), and holds a position of working two weeks, and then having two weeks off, which has allowed us the flexibility and freedom to pursue our dream of living in Paris. Our intention is for our children to attend public school in Paris, learn the language, and hopefully, lay the foundations of our future in France. Only time will tell, but we are going to give it our all.
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for providing all of the above listed information – much appreciated!
I am Australian and currently on a 1 year tourist visa in France. I recently went for my appointment to extend and have been asked to return with further documentation. I am however having difficulty in getting information from the Prefecture de Police regarding the requirements of said documents (and yes, I know, I should have confirmed at the appointment – but I did not!). These are for (1) proof of income & (2) health insurance. Is this something you could possibly advise on?
(1) Proof of Income – They have requested ‘relevés bancaires en francais’. From your experience, does this means a line by line translation of my most recent bank statements (I have two – 1 US & 1 Australian), or does it mean a summary of assets across the two accounts – translated into French and converted into Euros?
(2) Health Insurance – I currently have World Nomad Health Insurance but this expires this month (hence why I need to come back with another), and I require ‘assurance medicale 1an en Francais’ for my new visa application. From your experience, if I were to move forward with another policy from world nomad (I feel comfortable with them, and like their customer service etc), would I require the full policy to be translated into French, or just the page outlining what I am covered for. Alternatively, is it better to purchase health insurance in France, from a French health care provider such as Generali?
Apologies for all of the questions. I understand that you do not work for the Prefecture de Police or immigration department. I’m just hoping that you may have come across these questions/requests before.
Thank you!
Bethaney
Hi Bethaney
The ideal is to have French bank account statements. If you don’t have a French account yes I think having the originals with a French cover page explaining the moving monthly averages with conversion to Euros would be a step in the right direction. You don’t even want to know what a line by line translation would cost.
As far as the insurance question I highly recommend getting a french policy. It will likely be cheaper and you won’t have any worries about translation. You can send me an email and I can connect you with someone if you would like.
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for the quick response!
I do not have a french bank account (as I am unable to work in France and therefore have no income it did not make sense for me to get one), so a summary of my savings across my Australian & US accounts translated into French and converted into Euros seems like the best way to go.
As for insurance, I agree. As much as I love World Nomad I believe its time to transition to a french policy. Please can you confirm your email address (I can’t seem to locate it on the site), as any recommendations would be much appreciated.
Thank you!
Bethaney
Allow me to respond. You are now a French immigrant and it is now mandatory to have a French bank account if you live in France, just like you must have health insurance valid in France. What you are doing ” so a summary of my savings across my Australian & US accounts translated into French and converted into Euros seems like the best way to go.”
will only buy time and you will go back 3 months later with the proof of the opening of the French bank account and the last statement.
So you are much and I mean MUCH better off opening the account NOW!!! You might still have to go back to show your statements but the hardest part will have been done and the problem is fixed sooner than later.
Hi Bethaney,
I am Australian and I think I might face the same problems when I go to renew as well. It is really difficult opening a bank account in France since terrorist attacks without considerable amount of wealth to invest in an International Bank (such as HSBC)
I have a 2 year travel insurance comprehensive policy with QBE in Australia which has already paid out twice in France! Surely this is enough!
Bethaney if you join our Facebook group there are at least a couple Americans who have opened a French bank account with standard opening balances. We can pass on names and contacts to you there.
I have the list of the documents needed for just about all the different immigration statuses that exist. I can send the one for you through email.
Keep in mind that the entire documentation submitted at the prefecture must be in French and therefore a policy 100% in English means a considerable cost for translating those documents. Keep that in mind when you shop for the best deal!!
Once the logic is understood and the requirements accepted, the renewal of this immigration is simple and quite cheap.
The cheapest policy that complies with the prefecture is 410€ a year, but I am not sure that the coverage it offers meets your expectation.
I can be very useful in making this process simple and cheap even when you add my fees!!!!
Jean is well worth his fees and is underpriced in my opinion 😉
BTW, this is a side issue but it can help considerably. Having a bank account in France is MANDATORY for everyone living in France including you. I know about the difficulties of opening an account for foreigners and YES the French banks state that you are foreigner and therefore you “Must” open a non resident account which asks for exorbitant deposit. Now if you “demand!” to have an account opened as a French immigrant which you are BTW, it changes radically the response coming from the bank. It is does not, then you can report this to the “Banque de France” the French Federal Reserve, suddenly the bank behaves differently!
This is just food for thoughts
Hi there, thanks for this really helpful post and questions. Do you know if I could do a side trip to Switzerland as it is technically not part of the EU to gain a 90 day tourist visa? I really only need to renew for another 3 months but to go to London is difficult from the ski fields in France.
Also to apply for this extension, do you know would I just attend an interview at my local prefecture? presumably I would not need to go to Paris
Thanks for your help!
Liz
If your question is whether Switzerland is outside the Schengen zone, as London is, the answer is no. If the requirements of your visa are that you leave Schengen, CH does not qualify.
Hi Stephen, Liz, Jean,
Thank you all for your feedback! I will endeavour to open a french bank account prior to my appointment, though as I do not want to transfer my savings from my Australian & US accounts into said French account (I charge everything to my credit cards and manage payments online) – I will still have to find a solution to providing those account balances in French.
I have had no luck to date in confirming with the prefecture de police on what documentation will suffice. But I will update here if and when I do for those that are facing the same issue.
I was living working in New York when I applied for my initial visa so all of my documentation was written in English. I had assumed (I know, you should never assume!) that documentation for the renewal process would be the same. So the request for everything translated into French has thrown me for a bit of a loop. It may have been easier (and only slightly more expensive) to fly back to the US to renew!
Stephen if you could please provide your email address I will email you direct. I would love your recommendations on the best french health insurance providers for foreigners living in France.
Thank you.
Bethaney
stephen at thelifeyouwant dot eu
Thank you so much for this! I’m renewing my VLS in March and this has put my mind at ease. Any health insurance recommendations are greatly appreciated, as I dislike my Cigna plan and feel it’s time to move on to a different company. Thank you, SR
Shelley send me an email content at stephen at thelifeyouwant dot eu and I’ll get you the info.
Hello,
I am a high school student in Colorado and I am studying the country of France currently. I have read your blog and would like to ask you some questions.
When you first arrived in France what was the biggest cultural difference you had to face?
What is your favorite thing about living in France?
What is your least favorite thing about living in France?
Would you say you had any false perceptions about Paris before moving there or was everything exactly the way you thought it would be?
This sounds suspiciously like a homework assignment. Keep in mind that in a past life I taught high school students…for 15 years, so I can spot them :0
But in appreciation for said assignments, and a desire to remind the youth that research matters, I am confident that you will find all the answers to these questions, in lengthy form, on this blog. Just scroll down to the list of articles and I’m sure you’ll find article titles that should lead you to your answers.
If you need clarification on anything after having done that research, email me. That address is on the site too 🙂
Thank you for the depth of detailed information. I have a few questions of my own:
We are American citizens living with permanent Mexico residence visas in Mexico (for 8 yrs now). Must we be in the USA to begin the long-stay visa process, or could it be done within Mexico? What type of office are we looking for, specifically?
We are hoping to spend 6 months in France starting later this year 2017. We were intending to buy a return ticket 6 months later (thinking positive), and booking a rental for 6 months. Do you see an issue with our being presumptive with our plans?
We are not legally married with a certificate, but rather, “common law” and did actually get married, just without the paper formality. We work online and get paid into a US bank acct, have 2 business bank accounts listing both of us as signers on the account. Will they understand marriage with no certificate status? Thoughts?
Will we be given an extension of our tourist 90-day visa if need be, for the sake of awaiting the processing of this long-stay visa?
Thanks so much for your help and availability, it is appreciated!
Thank you for your message
YOU
1 – We are American citizens living with permanent Mexico residence visas in Mexico (for 8 yrs now).
ME
This means that you have the right to ask for an immigration visa at the French consulate either in Mexico City or another city depending on where you life in that country. When you fill out the form you add the information about your residency rights. This is easy.
YOU
2 – We are hoping to spend 6 months in France starting later this year 2017. We were intending to buy a return ticket 6 months later (thinking positive), and booking a rental for 6 months. Do you see an issue with our being presumptive with our plans?
ME
There is here an important question. The legal immigration status is 3 months and then one needs to leave the Schengen area for 3 months in order to come back for another 3 months. So clearly this regulation is not compatible with your project. The fiscal residency starts in your case with a stay at least 183 days and you intent to not stay in France that long. So you are just in between. So this is where you make a choice, either you stay within the 3 months limit in the Schengen area, or you organise your life around the date of the renewal of your immigration title in France. The good news is that some of this can be done through the website, for example booking the appointment for most prefectures now but submitting the file asking for the visa and all the renewal requests you must submit this file. Also you must pick up the immigration ID in person. So it will require some strategy so those dates comply with your schedule in France.
Now as long as you do not stay in France more than 6 months, you will not subject to declare your worldwide income to France. The “visiteur” immigration status allows you to do this.
YOU
3 – We are not legally married with a certificate, but rather, “common law” and did actually get married, just without the paper formality. We work online and get paid into a US bank acct, have 2 business bank accounts listing both of us as signers on the account. Will they understand marriage with no certificate status? Thoughts?
ME
Interestingly enough being married or not does not change much the immigration request for these reasons:
1 – it is an individual file anyway and therefore both partners have to prove everything anyway,
2 – in both cases, one needs to sign the affidavit of lodging/support if needed if the documents are in one name. If everything is in 2 names then no problem,
3 – it is personal documents more than the business ones that matters so no need to prove that you 2 can sign for the company.
YOU
4 – Will we be given an extension of our tourist 90-day visa if need be, for the sake of awaiting the processing of this long-stay visa?
ME
The legal immigration procedure ALWAYS starts with an immigration visa and therefore it is never possible to “extend” the 90 day visa waiver program. You wait in the USA for the visa to be issued. Some of them like the “mention visiteur” is done very quickly, a matter of a few days, maybe a week once it is submitted to the consulate. So you really do not need any extension.
I hope that this answers your concerns for now.
Jean Taquet
A Survival Kit for Paris SARL
61 rue de Montreuil
75011 Paris
phone: (33)(0) 9.53.62.36.11.
phone: (33)(0)1.40.38.16.11.
cell: (33) (0)6.16.81.48.07.
E-Mail: qa@jeantaquet.com
website http://www.jeantaquet.com
Hi Stephen, could you please clarify what requirement 6 (the vaccination card) was? Is this required to be completed before leaving the U.S. and is it specified anywhere? Thanks so much!
Mason – just your basic vaccination card – your doctor should have the records. I suppose you could complete it in France, but you need to be prepared to communicate in French with a doctor and explain why you need all these shots (which you probably don’t – so get the records).
Hello! My husband and I are currently in France on student visas which will end in mid-July of this year (we are in extra-intensive french language classes). My husband has been in contact with a company here in France that is interested in using his services as an addictions counselor – not as a hired employee, but as an independent contractor – which would begin in springtime most likely. Is it possible to apply for new visas while here before our student visas expire, and if so, what kind of visa would we select? And do you have a list of requirements we would need to accompany the visa applications? Thank you so much for your help!
YOU
1 – Hello! My husband and I are currently in France on student visas which will end in mid-July of this year (we are in extra-intensive french language classes)
ME
I hope that you have gone passed the visa status and that you have received the OFII stamp which is the immigration ID that you should currently hold. This document has your foreign ID Nº.
YOU
2 – My husband has been in contact with a company here in France that is interested in using his services as an addictions counselor – not as a hired employee, but as an independent contractor – which would begin in springtime most likely
ME
2 comments here:
1 – the portage salarial makes it possible for consultants working independently to have an employee status. This is important to state since the Student Immigration status only allows you to work as an employee. So this would be a way to start working right away without having to change the immigration. At the same time, the cost of this set-up is awful you retain less than 50% of the money paid buy the client between the social charges and the fee charged by the portage corporation.
2 – If you have been in France for more than 1year and this is your 2nd renewal then it is possible to prepare the file to request the change of status to become self-employed in France. A status that Stephen Heiner has obtained almost the same way.
It does not fit with the above 2.
3 – you can also work in France and invoice from the USA. It is the simplest way of all but you need to comply with some rather strict guidelines to avoid some trouble.
YOU
3 – Is it possible to apply for new visas while here before our student visas expire,
ME
I would like to expand here because this is very important. You went through the process of obtaining a “long stay immigration” words have meanings and you are now with an immigration status and you are an immigrant of France and have the right to change your immigration status without having to leave France. BTW, you will be asking for a carte de séjour, which the name of your future and maybe current immigration ID.
These are the steps for students
the immigration visa at the French consulate
the OFII stamp obtaining once the physical is done
the carte de séjour is obtained at the 1st renewal which means the 2nd year in France
this card is renewed every year unless something in the situation changes
YOU
4 – and if so, what kind of visa would we select?
ME
Very likely, the name of the carte de séjour would be “Profession Libérale”. The file is made of 3 parts and depending of the people/their profile one is bigger from the other.
Part 1 – the ID of the person
what you are used to give passport – address – financial such as bank statements – marriage license – …….
Part 2 – the project – the business
the cover letter which includes a tiny business plan
a resume = CV
past diplomas
proof of part experience in the field
letters of interest from people in France
Proof of ability to finance such project
Part 3 – “the glitter” = “the media coverage”
articles written about you
articles or books written by you
awards received
moral references
Most of the file will be made of documents written in French either translated into French or drafted in French.
YOU
5 – And do you have a list of requirements we would need to accompany the visa applications?
ME
I gave you just above a list of what needs to be submitted and also needs to be tailored to your exact situation. I hope that with this you already have a really good good idea of what needs to be proved.
Bonsoir Jean ! Thank you so much for your answers. We really appreciate you taking the time to be so helpful and informative. So much to think about and consider! One thing we’ve heard differing thoughts on the amount of money the french government wants to see in our bank account for the “Profession Libérale” carte de séjour visa. If you have knowledge of what this is, that would be so helpful, as I trust what you say to be correct.
Although we arrived in September, it took until today for my husband to receive his OFII medical exam appointment letter…I still have not received mine. Hopefully in the next few days.
Thank you again!
Janie
hi i came upon your blog by accident looking for information on Paris. i think it is really interesting you live there as an american like me. if you don’t mind me asking what kind of businesses do you own. hope your day is well.
Hi there – I run 4 different companies, 2 that are US based and 2 that are based here in France. The two that I run here are related to what I applied for in my profession liberale visa – I write English content for French companies and I help English speakers find apartments here in Paris.
Hello Stephen. My wife and I brought everything we thought we would need paperwork-wise when we came to France last summer as students, in hopes that we would extend our visa to a long-stay status after our studies are complete (this summer). We understand we need to have our marriage license translated and we have a certified copy of such, but apparently the prefecture wants a certified original. To make a long story short, we tried to order one from the site in the US that handles this for our state, but they said since we are out of the country, we would need it to be notarized from the US Embassy since it is a US form and not international. Have you ever heard of this? Only Paris and Marseille offer notarial services once per week, but that is very costly to make a trip for from the Lyon area. The Lyon embassy informed us today that they would not be able to notarized for us on their upcoming “Off Site” day in March. Thank you for your insight you can give me as to where I could go to get this notarized and offering such a great site go us all to glean from.
Ken
Ken I’ve only used notary services at the Paris embassy once but it was a breeze. Make an appointment online, show up, pay, all done.
Thanks, Stephen – I’ll do that! Was hoping to not have to spend the euros to make a trip by train to Paris or Marseille just to get something notarized. But it’s got to get done!
Hey Stephen,
Loving your blog!
I have been to and from France for a few years now and I am applying for the long stay visa this time and have my appointment mid Feb. I have 2 questions for you and would appreciate so much if you could help because although I know the system quite well now I am still unsure of a few things that they are asking for.
– If I am running a small freelance business with all my clients in my home country, should I declare this as my form of employment? (I have more than enough money in the bank to cover my stay so not sure if I need to bring this up or not?)
– I will be staying in a colocation but my name will not be on the lease. For the attestation d’hebergement what information needs to specifically be included? Do they need to state how much I am paying? or does my name actually need to go on the lease?
Sorry, you may not be able to answer these questions. I’m just running out of options and not sure exactly what I need particularly for the accommodation …
–
Hi Annie – remember that being a long-term visitor means that they don’t care whether you are employed or not. They care about whether you have money. You *may* get a question about where that money comes from and you *may* get asked to provide proof – but I would put that in the “not required but smart to bring with me to the appointment” folder. On the ADH they need to say you are staying there for X amount of time, what you’re responsible for, etc. Your name does not need to be on the lease, but they should assume some kind of liability for your renter’s insurance in the ADH or give you a copy of their insurance.
Thank you Stephen! 🙂
Bonjour Etienne,
I could kiss you for being so thorough and informative about this stressful process. I am in the preliminary stages of applying for a long-term visa for my family of three. I am at a loss when it comes to paying taxes abroad. My husband will be employed by his US based employer but his HR dept. seems to think because we will reside in France for a year, we should be paying income taxes in France (41%!). Do you have any insight?
Seriously, you are my hero right now!
Cheers,
Elizabeth in Los Angeles
Elizabeth
Has the HR department ever dealt with this situation before?
No, My husband is an art director for his company and is going to ask his boss (he is based in NYC) for permission to work abroad for one year. The HR person also voiced concerns about the company continuing to pay for our medical benefits if we move abroad. We have many hoops to jump through before getting our visas, you see.
Elizabeth
Hello Stephen, thank you for all you are doing. I have searched for your email but not seen it . I am a Nigerian. My husband) who is also a Nigerian is a Doctoral student in Paris. He wants myself and son to join him in France in few months. He is on a scientific visa valid for two years. We are aware we(myself and son) can be depends ts on his visa….famille privee . The French consulate in Nigeria isn’t explicit in what type of visa we should apply for. Husband feels it’s long stay visa from here and we report to OFII on arrival in France for the residence permit. I also read somewhere that he has to apply on our behalf from the Prefecture in France and they communicate to us(beneficiaries) via our consulate. I am confused, is there any way you can advise ?
Oluwatosin
I’m not familiar with this particular setup (scientific visa with a family add-on) so I suggest you contact my good friend Jean Taquet who is an expert on these sorts of things. He can advise you further. He is at http://www.jeantaquet.com
I planning on applying for a long term student visa within the next month. As I understand, if I am granted the visa it will act as my residency permit and last for the 3 years of my bachelors degree. My main concern has to do with my accommodation and opening a bank account. I have found a place close to the school, but they only rent out the place for a maximum of one year. Do I have to find a new place to live every year? I am thinking of staying in a hotel for a while and then finding a place. I have the funds to support myself, but I’m not sure how I would go about opening the bank account, won’t they require some proof of residency on my part? How much cash am I allowed to bring with me? I suppose I could use online banking to pay for my hotel stay, but I still need cash to get around paris. Also I was wondering if you had a list of things to avoid during the interview.
Thanks
Michael – take small steps first. Don’t worry about a 3 year lease – get a place first so that you can figure out what is best for you. As long as you have some kind of lease – at least 6 months – you should be able to use that for getting a bank account. If you are a US citizen, that’s another kettle of fish and something I’ve already discussed here on the blog. The international rules are normal: anything less than 10k in a particular currency doens’t have to be declared.
I’ve never had a student visa interview so I can’t offer advice on that.
Thanks for this very instructive post, especially the last paragraphs about not complaining. I’ll keep these things in mind when a return to Paris next month.
Posts like this are why I love reading your blog. Recently, DS spent a wrenching year in Paris as a graduate student, and most of what made it wrenching were the sort of things you wrote about here. So it wasn’t his fault, after all, as he kept telling us. Old city with old buildings… Phew!
Thanks Stephen! Always a positive to any potentially negative situation. I think it’s all part of the experience, can’t wait to be able to tell people about my adventures/misadventures in France! 17 weeks and counting!
This is an extremely helpful post and Q&A – much appreciated! In reviewing the required paperwork (the PDF on their website) to renew the long stay visitor visa, it asks for the “dernier avis d’imposition” — are they asking for one’s last tax filing from the home country (in my case the US)? Has anyone been asked to provide this at their appointment?
Thank you!
I received this message because Mr. Heiner believes that I can address this issue. The issue seems simple but it triggers a rather complex issue, which can be summed up this way? Are you really a French immigrant?
I am going to scrupulously follow your message and you will see what I mean by that.
YOU
In reviewing the required paperwork (the PDF on their website) to renew the long stay visitor visa
ME
1 – So you received a immigration long stay visa that allows you to stay in France 365 days a year. So this is why I call it immigration because there is no end to how long you can stay in France on this immigration status.
2 – You are thinking or renewing it, which means that you have come to France and went through the OFII physical a few months after your arrival in France. At that time you had met both the police and the Dr. and this bone fides 100% your status as an immigrant.
3 – A small detail which is not a true detail. You are not renewing a “long stay visitor visa” as your visa is not immigration ID right now, the so-called “OFII stamp” you got at the end of your physical is your ID since it has your foreign ID Nº on it and your French address, your domicile, in short your home.
4 – Therefore you are renewing your “VISITEUR” immigration status by applying for a carte de séjour, which is a plastic card. BTW, this “VISITEUR” immigration status does not translate by any means to visitor.
YOU
it asks for the “dernier avis d’imposition”
ME
As immigrant, you might have stayed long enough that you received the French tax statement called indeed “dernier avis d’imposition”. Since you arrived last year and the declaration is done in May you have not declared yet, and therefore the prefecture does not expect you to show this document at the meeting of the 1st renewal of your “VISITEUR” immigration status.
I would like to go back to 2 issues that could have been overlooked by you.
1 – If you have stayed in France more than 183 days in France during the 2016 year, you have become a fiscal and a legal resident in France. You obey all the French laws and regulations, and your fiscal allegiance goes 1st to France. It happens that there is a tax treaty between the 2 countries that decides that the unearned income made in the USA is taxed in the USA. Therefore if you have become a French fiscal resident you should declare to the French tax office this May 17, that is the law and this is what the treaty states. It also means that your #1040 that you must fill out must bear your French address.
2 – I remind you the 3 basic grounds on which your immigration status is based on:
a) you prove that you have financial means either saving or earnings outside of France that enables you to stay in France. The minimum to prove is 14,000€ a year.
b) you prove that you have secured a home i.e., an address in France.
c) you prove that you are covered by a comprehensive health policy valid in France. The prefecture demands that it is either issued in the French language or that it is translated.
One of the best way to prove financial means is a tax statement called in France avis d’imposition sur le revenu. Prefecture is also asking for 12 months of bank statements to check you are living in France and you are spending a minium of 14,000€.
YOU
are they asking for one’s last tax filing from the home country (in my case the US)
ME
NO! They are asking for the French tax document for reasons explained above. Now for the 1st renewal for the reasons explained above you could and maybe should submit your #1040.
YOU
Has anyone been asked to provide this at their appointment?
ME
I understand because you are asking this question that you do not consider yourself as being a French immigrant, even though you are one. You react as if your allegiance still goes to the USA when it is mainly with France, because the tax treaty creates exceptions and you fall into those exceptions.
Now comes something that most Americans are totally unaware of, all the Préfectures are very lenient with American citizens, so much that it blurs a lot of issues.
1st example, the “VISITEUR” immigration status for American citizens allows them to state that they are not French fiscal residents because they are not staying in France long enough every year. The prefecture NEVER checks whether this statement is true or not, and therefore accepts that American renew their “VISITEUR” immigration status without giving a French income tax statement. So some Americans renew with the #1040 form and it is OK. Some of them even produce no tax statement and they get away with this most of the time. This leniency is incredible when one thinks how much scrutiny the prefecture applies to study the files.
2nd example, French residents are all expected to be covered by the public health coverage administration. There again there is never a problem showing a private policy as long as a) it covers somewhat the same as the public coverage b) if the documents are not in French that there are translated.
My last comment is that these is a cost for many foreigners to have their income declared in France as it takes a professional to fill out the French and the American declarations saying the same thing. To offset this cost there can be 2 reasons to do it:
1 – under certain circumstances, it is quite possible that there are no local taxes paid in the USA only the federal one.
2 – filling 5 times in France pretty much guarantees you to obtain the carte de résident which is valid 10 years and offers all the possible rights one can have in France including all the rights to work in France.
Hi Stephen and others,
thank you for the helpful information! I have to renew my visa soon too.
I have just one question, will the Prefecture take your passport for the time period that they need to renew your long-term visa? I mean I have to travel very often in the coming months and I need my passport.
Victoria
No they want your passport as an ID. You don’t ever leave your passport for a renewal.
Bon Soir Stephen,
We are a couple from California currently travelling outside of the US and wanted to apply for a french long term stay visa. We meet most of the requirements at first glance, however I have not been able to find the information anywhere about whether or not we can apply for the long term stay visa while in the EU? We are mainly travelling but our current “home base” for the year is with a college friend in Paris. Do you know if we are able to apply while we are in France for the long term stay visa?
Thanks for the info,
Rosario
Hi Rosario. The answer is no. You must apply in your home country. Since your “home base” has no legal standing with the French, you have no right to apply for a visa in the EU.
Ok I feared that would be the case! Thank you for the information!!!
Thanks,
Rosario
Hi, I’ve read most all of the comments and maybe I missed the answer to this. I was wondering I f you get a long term visa then return to the United States for a short while, could you apply for another same type visa or does it have to be a renewal to be able to stay long term again?
Al
Of course you could let your visa lapse and apply again in the US. But I don’t know why you would. Renewal is just about 3-4 times easier than the original application, and you get no preference for a second application. You’ll start from scratch.
Hey Stephen,
I’m gearing up for my visa renewal now. Could you provide me with the name/contact info of the translator you used and the French insurance agent? My googling attempts have not been fruitful 🙂
Also, how did you handle your apartment lease? I do not want to be presumptuous and renew for another year only to be rejected, but I reckon they want to see that I have a place to stay if I’m accepted (my current, renewable contract ends the day of my visa expiration).
Melissa
Please email me and I’ll give you the information you asked for. As for the lease – I don’t quite understand your question. To reply I would just say you need to show a lease that covers at least part of the next period you are asking for. A lease that expires on the day of your appointment won’t work. And it’s not presumptuous to ask for a year because if your visa is denied and you have to leave by mandate of France your lease is not legally enforceable.
Hey Stephen, how long did it take for you to get the first ‘confirmation’ letter back from the OFII, and then the appointment letter? Thanks!
Gonzalo off the top of my head I think a week to ten days to get the confirmation letter and then maybe another week to ten days for the appointment.
Thanks! You are really on top of this 🙂
Its been a while since I chatted with you all. Stephen, you have been a BIG help. We now have our carte de sejours. HORRAY! One thing I should share. We were unable to pay for the impot stamps at the Tabbac. We went to a local government agency to purchase the stamps. They accepted a credit card for no extra charge. We are now already looking to renew in one year. I visited the Perfecture this morning and was informed that renewing shouldn’t be a problem and that I can do it 2 months before. I was also told I would need to submit similar documentation the next time, including residence documentation, insurance varification, etc. I forgot to ask if there is a charge for renewal after one year. Does anyone know? Does each Perfecture have separate regulations?
Thanks again for all your shares, especially Stephen.
For such a large amount to be paid – now 269€ – not all the tabacs are able to provide but I know several where it is still possible.
What you are describing here is the tax office. So indeed the cashier can receive payments for the “normal taxes” as well as “sell” those stamps that are used mainly to pay fees, fines and non tax amounts owed to the French administration.
It has been more than a year now that the delay is closer to 5 months solid. Therefore I advise you to get on the prefecture website at least 5 months before the expiration of the card so you can choose the day you want as well as the time that is the best for your schedule.
Based what we know the 269€ cost is for every year and therefore expect the same cost for the next renewal.
Now that you have fully proved everything about you and your spouse the following years the file is indeed simpler
aside from your IDs and your address proved with a utility document you must prove:
your means and often your 12 months of French bank statements should be enough as long as you receive and therefore spend a minimum of 14.000€ a year
your health coverage valid in France
I just looked on one of Stephen’s sites and think he answered my questions. It looks like there is a lot to do to renew again… and a costs. Since we will not be doing this in Paris, the requirements may vary somewhat.
Wow! This post of yours comes at a very strange time… and now I am in complete panic mode. Until now, I thought one receives a recipisse at the time of one’s meeting with the prefecture. This my first time renewing my VLS-TS for a CDS. My appointment with the prefecture is next week, although I requested it before my visa expired. My visa is expired but I left before the expiration date and I am within my three-month visa-free stay now. I don’t have a recipisse and I fear that it’s too late to get one. Will this a problem with my file at the prefecture? Would really appreciate your input as I’m completely panicked now on what to do. Thank you!
A recipisse is a stand-in for a CDS. In your first year you receive neither a recipisse nor a CDS, but your original visa sticker, plus the additional sticker you get from OFII, is your visa.
I think the problem is your idea that you can flit back and forth between visa statuses, as in, you can be in LTS, and then when that expires, flip over to the tourist visa, and then flip back to LTS. That’s not how it works. When your passport expires, you are ineligible to get it renewed. You simply have to get a new passport. Similarly, when your visa expires, and you do not get an extension (via a recipisse) until your appointment date, your visa is expired. Now, they may be lenient about this at the prefecture, but I’ve never done something like that, would never risk something like that, and have no idea how it can be remedied. I would refer to Jean Taquet, who I spoke about in this article, to help you with this situation.
You may recall that you referred me to Jean previously and we, in fact, corresponded. I didn’t go to his website them, but I just subscribed to it now. Wow! A font of knowledge and experience! Thanks for the lead.
The first question I have when I land in my rented apartment in any arrondissement is, “Où se trouve le Picard le plus proche?” Are you kidding me? After a day’s worth of flâneur-ing, there’s nothing better than to change into sweats, and heating up a hot Picard meal! This is from somebody who absolutely hates to cook.
If I’m able to find an employer in Paris to sponsor me (and I think I have), how is the process to obtain a long term visa different? Meaning, would having a job guaranteed expedite the process in any way? And what if I end up changing jobs once I’m here? Is that a big deal? Also, I’m living in NYC now and don’t have health insurance. Will I need to get covered before jumping through the hoops?
Jeremey
If you find an employer in Paris you’ll be obtaining a work visa, which is completely different from the different classes of long-term visa. You can’t “change jobs” here like you would in the United States. You’ll have to find someone else who would be willing to sponsor a non-EU citizen to work here, they will have to then help you obtain a work visa. If you quit or get fired, you lose all residency rights and have to leave France in a certain amount of time.
The health care question isn’t a concern for the French. They don’t care/control what you do in the United States. They only care what happens when you get to their country. You’ll need to show a policy should you go the long-term visa route, but as I said, if you’re looking to be employed here, you won’t be getting a long-term stay visa.
Hello,
Thank you for this article, it has been very helpful! You mentioned that with this type of visa (a long stay visitor visa), if you are going to leave and cross an ocean, it must be for three weeks or more. I have not read anything like this yet, so may I ask where you found this information?
You’re taking me too literally. I’m speaking about the trouble it takes to leave. Not personally worth it to me for less than three weeks. There is no verbiage in official government documents about crossing oceans. Or galaxies for that matter 😉
Oh haha. Thank goodness! I thought you meant if I was to return home it would have to be for three weeks or more. Just trying to make sure I know all the requirements for this type of visa! Thanks again!
This blog is incredibly helpful. I live in Boston, and am looking to apply for the visa de long sejour in January 2018, and move to Bordeaux in February/March. I work for a company now, but when I go to France I will be freelancing (independently). Would my income from that be accepted for the financial requirement along with my savings 401K, etc?
Also, I will be moving in with a French national. Can I just provide their renter’s insurance, or does my name have to be included in the documents?
Thanks so much,
Katie
Katie – let’s do the second question first – if you are moving in with a French National (or a Dutch National, or anyone for that matter) you can simply obtain an “attestation de hébergement from him/her along with an EDF and insurance (renter’s or owner’s). If your name is on the lease, you will need a lease and renter’s insurance.
As for your first question, yes, the freelancing income will be countable towards your resources for your LTS
Thank you!
How would I “prove” that I will be receiving consistent income for a year from freelancing? I will apply when I have at least 1,500 per month for 12 month plus the freelance income which fluctuates.
Do you think this is sufficient financially security? Also, the cost of living in Bordeaux is less than Paris. Do they take that into consideration?
Thanks again,
Katie
Katie – perhaps a letter from your biggest client or bank statements showing consistent deposits? The cost of living in Bordeaux is not significantly different enough for them to adjust what they consider “self sufficient” in France to my knowledge. Several people have written me from the rural parts of France where they reside and they were asked to provide the same proof of level of income as I did when I was still LTS.
Thanks Stephen. This info is very helpful!
May I also ask, first of all if there is an age minimum for the long stay visitor? And second, since you seem to have a lot of experience with this type of visa, is it is allowed to provide a parent’s proof of income and bank statements for that specific requirement (as I know that there needs to be proof that one can support themselves without working while in France)? Not sure if you know the answer to these questions but I thought it couldn’t hurt to ask.
Emma – if you read other articles on this site, you’ll find a lot of questions answered, including about the parent’s proof of income and bank statements (they need to write a letter saying they will stake you) and no, there’s no minimum age beyond 18.
Hello!
I am wondering if I need to bring my original birth certificate? I have copies with me but my original is in the States with my parents!
A copy is fine, but more important is the need to have a certified French translation of that birth certificate.
Thank you for providing this process. I really appreciate that you shared your experience step by step so that at least I will be over prepared 😉
Happy to help Lisa – I just didn’t want anyone to go through what I went through when I started this process 🙂
Hi Stephen, I have a one year long stay visitor’s visa that expires in a few months. The prefecture in which I live handed me a form entitled DEMANDE DE TITRE DE SÉJOUR on which I understand I in the question for “Nature de la Demande” the boxes “le renouvellement” and “d’une carte de séjour temporaire” and ” 1 an” . I have 3 questions: 1) on the form, when they ask for my address, do I provide my address and phone number in my home country, or do I instead provide my address and phone number in France? 2) my prefecture does not seem to require health insurance certificate, or tax declaration or bank statements (they provided me with a Pour obtenir une carte de sejour temporaire”). Might they suddenly ask for it when I deliver my application and documents? 3) is it possible as a visitor to receive a multi year visa? Many thanks, Alina
Alina
I’ll answer your last question first – no it is not possible for a visitor to receive a multi-year visa.
Secondly, you are now here in France on a LTS, so ostensibly your address is here in France, where you are renewing, not some address in the US where you don’t live 🙂
Finally – whatever is on the demands from your prefecture, there is no way you can get a LTS renewal here in France without health insurance, bank statements/tax return, etc.
You’re trying to prove to them that you are actually continuing to live here in France, not using this as a shadow visa so you can travel around Europe.
Hi Stephen, Thanks for the quick and thoughtful response. I really do still have a home in the US, and really don’t travel around Europe at all, it’s either France or the US for me. I have bank statements for every month I’ve been here, but I won’t be 12 months at the time of renewal (since one renews prior to the expiration of 12 month Long Stay Visa), would that be a problem? Since I wasn’t in France for 183 days in 2016, I won’t have filed a declaration this month (May 2017), so would must I present my 1040? I do have French health insurance and renter’s insurance. If I am here for more than 183 days, I think I understand that when renewing my visa in 2018 that I must present my “DÉCLARATION DE RETENUE À LA SOURCE ANNÉE” for calendar year 2017 at that time, correct -this is an absolute must? Finally, I believe I have read in your forum that after 5 years of Declarations I should be eligible for French national health insurance (as French citizens have it), or do I have that wrong?
No, I don’t think you have to have 12 months, per se, you just need to have them dating from your last renewal. Sometimes you renew before, but sometimes you renew after (I wrote recently that I had to get a 2 month extension on a one year PL because of the scheduling issues here in Paris).
I’m a bit confused on your residence – the long term stay visa is designed around you spending more than half the year here, but you’re saying you spend less than half the year here. When you say you “really do have a home in the US” then you are really stretching the purposes of this visa. It’s for people who live in France, nearly full time as visitors, not for people who split their time between here and the US – the best situation for that is dual citizenship, since neither country cares what you do when you’re a citizen, but any country cares down to the milimeter what you’re doing when you’re a visitor.
I don’t know if they need to see your 1040 – it’s not really relevant to them as you’re not a fiscal French resident but you can bring it in the “just in case file.” I think the larger question is going to be “why did you get a 1 year visa when you aren’t even here half the year” when you tell them that you didn’t file your french taxes.
As far as your revenue – this can be proved out by your bank statements.
I’m not entirely sure what you mean by the five years of declarations – I don’t see a connection between being a visitor here and being permitted to enter the National health insurance system here. If you’re a visitor, you acquire “assurance etrangers,” as you’re a visitor. If you’re in the national health insurance system, you’ve changed your status such that you contribute into the system – it’s not “free,” and how would a visitor do that?
My caveat to anything I’ve said above – if Jean Taquet says anything on these matters that contradicts me – he is right 🙂
Thanks so, so much again Stephen. I still work, but in the US, and luckily I work freelance, so whether I spend more or less than 183 days per year in France will depend on work – I work onsite in the US when I do work. Hopefully 2017 will see me in France for more than 183 days- that was my intention. I suppose I was confused by some 5 year reference I saw somewhere, and I was thinking also that I would be obligated to pay social security taxes (although I could be wrong about that) once I am a fiscal French resident, so I thought mistakenly though those 2 things together might someday entitled me to participate in National Health Insurance. Not all my revenue can be proven by French bank statements. My financial assets reside and income flows into my US accounts, some of my French expenses are even paid from US accounts or US credit cards since my US bank is very good about wire fees and foreign transactions fees and what not – the last friendly bank in the US. That said, if less than 14.000 EUR does not flow into my French account in a given calendar year (more probably always will), but just in case), should I show they US bank statements, too?
No. You can be a fiscal French resident and pay no taxes. That’s what I did my first two years (I have a couple articles on the experience if you want to check it out – just look for “taxes” using the search bar.).
As regards proving your income from something other than French bank accounts, sure. You can show your assets from any country/bank, as long as it gets to a level they are comfortable with.
Hi, I am wondering if anyone can help me with my situation. I would really appreciate any answer.
– I am a US citizen and I obtained my Visitor Long Stay French Visa in San Francisco. The visa’s validity is from Sep 27, 2017 to Sep 27, 2017.
– I entered Paris in December 2016.
– in Jan 2017, I obtained my VLS-VT (Visa Long Sejour-Valent-Titre de Sejour). It is affixed to my passport. It does not have any expiration date on it. On that day, they also gave me a leaflet with a website and a phone number where I could visit or call to obtain an appointment to renew my stay before my visa expires.
– The leaflet says to make the appointment 4 months before my visa expires, which would be aroun May 27, 2017.
– Here is the problem: When I visited the renewal appointment website on May 17, and entered my information, the first listed available appointment is in late October 2017, several weeks after my visa would expire.
– I am concerned if I take the appointment (say for October 24, 2017) and show up at their office on that date, they will tell me that I have violated the terms of my visa by staying in France between Sep 27 (when my visa expired) and Oct 24 (my appointment date). And in fact they would be correct.
What do I do? Do I need to go back to he US and get another visa? Is there any other way to get an appointment? I know I could also call to get an appointment, but what if the same happens when I call the listed number? Do I need to get a temporary permit (if there is such a thing)?
Thank you for any input!
Correction: My visa’s validity is from Sep 27, 2016 to Sep 27, 2017.
Stephen, thank you for the link. I read it and I believe now I understand what needs to be done. Essentially, I just need to get a temporary extension to my visa (récépissé), which would keep me “legal” until the time of my renewal appointment.
Update:
So I did call and made the renewal appointment for October 24, which is about one month after my visa will expire. They told me to go to the office at 19-21 Rue Truffaut and obtain a récépissé, just as you had mentioned in your story.
They told me to obtain the récépissé not earlier than 2 weeks before my visa expires. So for instance, my visa expires on Sep 27, I am therefore planning to go their office on Sep 14, but not earlier (nor later).
They also told me to bring the following when applying for the récépissé:
1 photo,
Utility statements for past 3 months,
Passport,
The renewal convocation,
Plus a copy of each of the above.
I just hope that they won’t give me any hard times when I go there, such as why I didn’t request for a renewal appointment earlier.
Thanks again for the informative link!
Hello,
I have a question please : any thing special bout the “quittance de loyer” ? a simple paper signed is enough ?
Thanks
Seddik if you google it with the word “example” you will see lots of examples.
Hi,
Thanks, but I mean nothing special about I can use an exemple from the internet ? they accept a handwritten signed paper ?
Well if you use an example from the internet it’s not going to be a handwritten signed paper.
In general “handwritten signed paper” is not a formula for success with the prefecture. Have something typed up.
Bonjour Stephen !
My husband and I are here in France on 10-month student visas, which expire this July 14. We are finishing up the gathering of all the documentation we need to apply for renewal. I have a question I’ve not been able to find the answer to ANYWHERE! So I’m hoping you can help me.
1. We currently rent a flat here in City A
2. We attend school in City A – our last day is June 29
3. Our current student visas expire on July 14
4. We are moving to City B on July 6 and have leased a new flat there
5. My husband registered for school in City B to begin in September
Which prefecture do we go to next week to apply for renewal of our student visas? City A or City B? Both cities are walk-in only for students, with no appointments available.
Thank you so much for your help. Love your blog!
This is such helpful information. (and my gosh — what a lovely person you are to provide this information!) But I am still obsessing over the health insurance requirement. My husband and I have in-person appts at the Boston French Consulate in about 2 weeks, for our trip, with tickets already, leaving August 28th, returning end of May 2018. we are over 65, retired, in good health, have a place to stay with Parisian friends who have written a letter for us, a good amount of money in savings, regular deposits of social security, and we have worldwide emergency room care reimbursement coverage from our Medicare Advantage plan plus the required evacuation and repatriation coverage. But, I am worried we may need more health insurance? Does having money in the bank matter–or should we still get a policy somehow that will cover less-than-emergency problems? Will we be eligible after 3 months to apply for French medical insurance? Thank you so much. Susan
Susan – I must admit I am not familiar as to whether standard Medicare coverage is considered sufficient by the French authorities. I would wait until your appointment in Boston. If they tell you it is insufficient at the appointment, they will simply delay processing your application until you can obtain some, instead of outright rejecting you.
You can buy “assurance etrangers” while here in France, and you don’t need to wait any amount of time to do so. If you’re asking whether you can be part of the French National Health Insurance system, the answer is no. You can only be part of it if you are working (or have worked) in France legally. It is not available to those on an LTS visa.
Thank you! Every new bit of info helps. And again, thanks for this wonderful forum.
Hi, can you tell me the date of your article ? is it recent and still valid?
thanks!
I don’t have a practice of having “invalid” articles. People are telling me stories about their journey all the time and occasionally something may get updated but there are no “outdated” pieces here. The blog only started in 2013. 😉
It seems like it’d be necessary to submit some kind of application form for the visa renewal (almost like a cover page where I give my contact information and check the box for which kind of visa I’m renewing), but I don’t see anything about that online. Are my eyes tricking me about this?
Thank you for your very informative article! This demystification has taken a lot of the stress out of the preparation process.
I’m just seeing these comments about the need for all bank statements to be in French… given that my appointment to renew (1st time) is next week I am starting to panic! I do have a French bank account, but I just transfer petty amounts of cash there. My income is deposited directly into my US account. I was going to present statements from both accounts. I’m not really sure if there’s something I should (or can) do at this point aside from bring what I have and hope for the best… (after pouring myself an American sized glass of wine) Any advice?
Also, I have not gotten a tax form in France yet, which I find odd. If taxes are declared in May, and I arrived end of last August, I should have gotten something in the mail. Did you file them your first year? Or did you just present your US tax returns?
BTW, Stephen, I went with the translation service and insurance you recommended and it was a breeze! Thank you!
🙂
Melissa – glad to hear it! This is a renewal so they don’t care about your US account. Just bring your French bank statements, and keep the US statements in the backup folder. Be ready to explain (if they ask) where the deposits are from.
You are not going to get a tax form from the French. Immigration and Finance are not connected in that way. You need to file on your own. I can recommend someone if you write me. She’s handled my “non revenue” returns when I was a visitor and just helped me file my first personal return with French income (I hired a different firm to file my French business returns).
I never saw anywhere that you need french bank statements, all I have are my US bank statements. Is that going to be a problem? Should I open an account even though it won’t be enough time to get any statements from it ?
Tell us how it goes.
I think if you can at least prove that you have the account, it will help you. I had an appointment two weeks ago and they would not give me a visa without the account, even though I gave them an attestation that my application was in process at LCL. They gave me a récépissé and told me to come back in October when the account was approved.
Melissa – my husband and I had our renewal appointments about 7 weeks ago in Lyon and we brought copies of our US and our French bank accounts. They said they did not want anything about our US account and only took the copies of the French account, which is necessary for them to see you are settled in France.
Can anyone please straight up name a health insurance plan that includes disability coverage? I have found literally nothing, yet it is specifically listed as one of the health insurance “risks” that must be covered.
Hello,
I have a long term visitor stay visa in France starting next week. As a visitor I know you’re not eligible to work. I’ve had a skype call from a nannying agency in Paris saying I would need a work visa or a titre de sejour (residency card). Would I be eligible for this position if I acquire a residency card as a long term visitor stay?
Thanks
No. You cannot legally work in France for something like nannying on a visitor visa. You signed an attestation in applying for your visa in which you specifically said you would not.
Super helpful post, thank you! I just returned from the police station and it was dead — maybe a lucky byproduct of it being August in Paris? I got in quickly and nabbed a recipisse, it all took place as you described. Now for my question: my appointment for renewal isn’t until December 29! I was hoping to go back to the U.S. for the holidays, but that appointment date is killing my plans. Do I have any options for getting in sooner? Could I go to the office and camp out and see what happens, or is that crazy talk?
Thank you so much for this write up! So as long as you work for only non-French companies and clients, you can have the long stay visa and continue that work? I freelance in America for mostly US/UK clients, and I’m looking to live in France but continue that work.
Yes that’s fine.
Hello Stephen!
I just want to firstly say that you have a wonderful thing going on here – thank you. The sharing of experiences is often underestimated, especially concerning these types of topics which can seem overwhelming to those who have never gone through the steps. So again, thank you for taking the time to share with us.
I wanted to ask you a question for my parents regarding an initial long term stay visa application. We did a test run of a month or so in Normandy, and they loved it. They have decided to apply for the long term visa when they get back to the United States in a few weeks. Our question is regarding the translation of documents. Would you be able to tell us what exactly should be translated for the first application? Our main concern is bank statements. My parents’ statements are lengthy – very lengthy – and all in English. They plan to open the French bank account, but as this is the first application and not a renewal, the United States accounts will be used. I am hoping that these will not need to be translated, as it would be incredibly expensive. Can you shine some light on this topic for me?
Again, I thank you for your time and effort. We are all from the United States. I am currently a university student studying in England. I’m trying to doing everything that I can to help this transition for my parents. It’s all very exciting!
Thank you for your time and I look forward to your response.
Best regards,
– Armani Trotman
Armani
This is an application, not a renewal, and you are applying from the US, not France. Translation of your bank documents will not be necessary.
Hello Stephen,
Thank you for the quick reply! I am very happy to hear this, and have already told them. We will be regrouping later before they return to the United States. Hopefully that solves all the questions that they could have, but if there are more, I hope you don’t mind if I ask you more about your experience.
I know you aren’t running a business here in the comment section and are probably very busy, so I want to say thank you again for taking the time to respond.
All the best,
– Armani Trotman
Incroyable! As an American with an 8-5 job and two weeks of vacation that goes so quickly, and health insurance costs for my family that eat up a good chunk of my paycheck, I go a little weak in the knees contemplating this smorgasbord of benefits. OTOH, I understand the reality that the benefits so many American progressives see as “rights” have to be paid for by someone else. I really enjoyed this thoughtful and nuanced post about an issue I think about often.
I found your blog via the Art of Charm blog, and look forward to exploring more.
Brigette – it’s precisely because I’ve been doing a lot of work for AoC that my own little labor of love blog has had so few updates, but that should be changing soon as I’ve made some adjustments to do more “leisure” writing 🙂
I neglect my blog, too, mainly because of work (you know, the place I DON’T get 6 weeks of vacation and a 13th month of pay to cover taxes) and my 4 kids. You’re neglecting yours for a much cooler reason. AoC is a great site. Can’t believe the podcast has been around more than 10 years and I only discovered it this month. Ridiculous. Shows you how much great content is out there…which is a little discouraging as I contemplate strategies for being heard above the din.
Hey all!
A few questions about my French long-stay visa, but I’ll start with the most important one:
My Visa finishes the 20th of February. On the 21st of February, can I still be in Europe under a traditional 90 day tourist visa (I’m American). If so, do I need to get this stamped/leave the country/leave the EU entirely?
Christian
This is a mistake people make a lot; they think they can just “roll over” to the tourist visa. This is not legally possible and can result in a fine if you’re caught. Your visa ends on the 20th of February, which means that’s the end of your legal stay in the EU/Schengen. Easiest fix for this is to head to London (that leaves Schengen) and come back the next day and your entry stamp will start the new 90 day stay. You can’t just “hop” over to another visa the day your old visa ends. That’s not how visas work.
Thank you. I’ll probably have to apply to renew my visa anyway, since it seems I’ll be staying more than a few months after February. Thank you for this page, it’s a gem for people in this position.
Hey, Stephen, your story has inspired me to not give up just yet! Congratulations and thank you for posting this.
I do have a question regarding this Profession Liberale: when applying for a French visa from my country (South Africa) it seems there are no visa options to apply for to have your own business in France (i.e. Professional Liberale does not feature at all in the drop down list of visas to select from to apply for). This is a problem I’ve seen writers from other countries write about, too. So my question is, is it only possible to apply for this visa once in France already?
Karma – here’s the thing – there’s not even really info on how to apply for Prof Lib when here! The French government is simply not helpful on this front. Might I suggest calling your embassy and asking whether you can apply for it from SA?
I maintain the advice that I gave – if I had the savvy and know how I would have skipped my two years as a visitor and jumped straight in to Prof Lib. But I was clueless, so I couldn’t 😉
That’s it – you’ve hit the nail on the head! There is just NO info available on these various types of business visas (bar the blogs such as yours I’ve come across). I have spoken with my embassy who keep referring me to a 3rd party company called Capago who handle all Italian and French visas, however, Capago have never even heard of “Profession Liberale” or Carte de Commerçent… It seems useless to even try this route :/
I’m with you on that, I’d rather have the necessary visa before making the move back over – moving overseas ain’t for the faint-hearted, it’s emotionally (and financially) very taxing!
May I ask where, then, did you find the info you needed to obtain your visa?
When I was visiting Paris with my 30-something son ten years ago I mistakenly bought two carnets of youth tickets, rather than regular tickets, at a Metro vending machine. Of course we were apprehended by the RATP flying squad (I still didn’t understand the problem) and fined €100 on the spot. The inspector seemed apologetic, but we still had to pay. He gave us a pass that allowed us to ride the Metro for the rest of the evening. I use a Navigo Carte now.
Hello All,
I have a question to renew my French long-stay visa,
My visa is going to expire on 31th of October 2017, I have just finished my Ph.D. in April 2017, Now I want to renew my card but i don’t have any inscription right now for the whole year 2017/2018, I will be enrolled in next semester from January to April 2018 for French language course diploma. So my question is one-semester inscription is enough to renew the card and there will be an issue that I have one-semester inscription and has nothing to do in these months? I m really worried about the renewal of card and I have very less time in expiration of visa.
Hi there,
Question for you — I am considering moving to France temporarily on a long stay visitor visa (for six months to a year), while still doing some consulting work for an American company. Would you be able to explain what you know about French taxes in this situation?
Hi Lauren – you fall under the circumstance I mentioned in this article. On a long-term stay visa of more than 6 months you are required to file a tax return even if that tax return indicates no income earned in France.
Thanks for replying even if this already a 2 year old thread. I am in the process of applying for a long stay visitor visa and has just been pacsed. I read somewhere it will help my dossier if I have some form of income coming from outside france like a remote job. Is it true or even legal? As long as it is not a french based firm
Rosel it doesn’t matter whether the income is from a job or from savings or from a trusth fund. When you say “help your dossier” all that matters is that you can prove to the French you have money to stay and not compete in their job market. Whether that’s from a remote job or otherwise is of no concern to the French.
I have a few questions to ask you about your OFII revisit appointment. When you went to the prefecture to change your status to Profession Liberale, how did the Prefecture inform you that you will need to revisit OFII? Did they tell you verbally, were you given anything in writing or they gave you an OFII appointment letter?
If you were told verbally or given a letter that you need to revisit OFII, did you contact OFII to make an appointment or were you sent an appointment letter at home without you ever contacting OFII?
Finally, after you completed the OFII classes, did you have to give your OFII certificates to the Prefecture in order to renew your recipisse or CDS?
Tom you get a letter, and that letter has an appointment for you. I have the certificates of completion on file but OFII has not asked me for them. They are notified of the completion of my classes by my attendance that day. The certificates are just nice formalities.
Hello, you are a gem for hosting this space loaded with information. Thanks for this.
We are currently in France with a long-stay visa. It expires in Feb, we are leaving back to our home country (USA) to then return to France in May. My question is around renewal. Can I renew a visa with a date gap from the date of expire, or is this irrelevant? Second question: if we renew for another year (ie: beginning of May) but then must travel out of France to USA (say, a month) for other reasons, will this jeopardize the existing visa? Don’t know the extent of which we can travel out of France.
Thank much,
Mike
Mike
You can’t renew a visa with a date gap. It’s called a “renewal.” 🙂 What you’re proposing is a new visa. You’ll have to repeat the entire process in order to get a visa to return in May. My question is, why not just renew in February and don’t tell the French you are heading out of town for a couple months? Technically speaking the French want you to stay in France for the majority of the year when you are on a long-stay visa, but they have absolutely no way of knowing where you are if you are inside Schengen. You could be in Berlin for the whole year without them really knowing, for example. I’m not recommending this – I’m just pointing out you should renew in February and realize the French are not entitled to know your travel plans for the whole year. Or ever, really.
Yes, yes. I figured as much. I will proceed with the renewal for starting end of February then. Lord knows I have no desire to start at the beginning again, ouch. I assume since my passport is set to expire next May, I will need to get that sorted via Paris before I even think about renewing? Meanwhile, I am still awaiting a response from OFII for my initial appointment for the prized sticker.
No – the French don’t care about when your passport is going to expire, as long as it’s not within 30 days of your appointment. But sure, if you want to renew early, there’s nothing wrong with that, but given your plans, I would wait until you’re stateside, otherwise you’ll be constrained in your travel while it’s out of your possession here.
Thanks for this site, it’s a lot of work (and repetition, and we need it!). My 1st year long stay visitor’s visa is about to expire (end November). I did go into the Prefecture (Perigueux) middle of August to get information, and she said return end of September only (no appointment necessary).
I arranged all the documents, and called the Prefecture to verify that I could just show up, and the person handling foreigners said to just come two weeks before my visa expires, that no appointment is necessary and I shouldn’t come too early. This worried me, and I called back two times since, always get this same man on the line and am always told the same thing (emphatically).
This differs from everything I am reading online. What are your thoughts?
Hi Sarah! Perigueux is also my prefecture, so I’m curious how it went for you. Do you have a French bank account? Did you have to provide proof of insurance? I went to the prefecture a few weeks ago with what I thought was a complete list of documents, and they turned me away without much additional information. Gave me a list, made some additions to it by hand, and chastised me for not speaking French (which I recognize is terrible). Would you mind detailing what you brought and whether it worked? Email is fine too if you’d prefer! Thanks, and I hope it went well for you!!
Congrats!
I do have a questions, you have to wait 5 years with the Profession Liberale visa before even trying to apply to the citizenship?
I missed my appointment because I was in hospital and am trying to figure out how to book another one online. Unfortunately the working holiday visa I’m on has just recently expired. How do I book another appointment online so I can rectify the situation?
Thanks,
Iris
For renewal of carte de sejour, do they want birth certificate issued from within 3 months? (Or only the translated copy needs to be dated from within 3 months?)
Thanks!!
I’ve heard tell of this “three month” guideline before but I’ve used the same translation each time it was needed and it was more than a year old the last time I did.
Can I ask which prefecture you went to? Cuz I understand things can vary between the different prefectures.
Thanks!
I always go to the Paris prefecture. That’s the only one I can speak definitively on. But this idea of “retranslating” documents seems crazy to me, especially since they don’t seem to examine the official translation stamp anyway, but are concerned as to whether it’s a French version of the original document.
For French people they usually have to give birth certificate issued from within 3 months when birth certificate is needed, reason is the French birth certificate contains information about any marriages or divorces in their lifetime (and not just info about their birth, even though it’s called a “birth” certificate or acte de “naissance “), so they want a recent copy for any up to date information.
However for us foreigners our birth certificates will never change from time we’re born till the say we die, so I can’t understand why here they often ask for birth certificate issued from within 3 months (or sometimes it’s 6 months for foreigners) even for foreigners.
I’ve to renew my titre de sejour (or 1st carte de sejour) next year and I’m hoping I can just use the birth certificates I brought with me this year haha
I’ve sent off my application for carte vital 3 months ago, so far no news… 😓
I am st the precipice of this decision after a recent trip to Paris and other issues. I do have the ability to come for a graduate degree ( I’m a scientific researcher) so that may make immigration a little easier in this regard.
What I’m wondering is how long you wrestled wiyh this decision before finalizing it?
Hi!! I have a question. I understand that you need a letter of employment. Do they contact your place of employment after submission of this letter. I’m planning to leave my job for this trip and would like to know if there is a way to prove income. I’ll have savings for this trip with bank statement
April – you don’t need a letter of employment. You need proof of income. However, the French government do not have the resources to verify these things. If you give them a bank statement that says you have lots of money in the bank, they aren’t going to call your bank. If you provide them with a letter of employment, they aren’t going to call your company. They simply don’t have the manpower to do this. You’re attesting that everything you are saying is true and as long as the paperwork holds up, the paper pusher is happy 🙂
I see that the first year you do not pay taxe d’habitation, but only did when switching to a working visa. I just began my second year and after reporting my revenus, received a letter stating that I owe taxe d’habitation. It seems like just living here continuously means I have to pay this, even though I have a visitor visa. Does this mean that they made a mistake and I can contest it?
Melissa – I think it was more likely that my landlady paid my first year’s taxe d’habitation to avoid declaring my rental income. I wasn’t going to tell her I needed to pay it 🙂
I did pay it when I was a still a visitor – after I changed apartments to one from an absentee landlord to one that was owned by a lady who does everything by the letter of the French law.
You owe the taxe d’habitation unless you have worked out something with your landlady/landlord otherwise. I just got my love note from the Finance department today myself.
There’s nothing to contest since it’s not a mistake to receive this tax. There’s no exemption for being a foreign national.
Thanks for clearing that up. It was quite the surprise… even stranger, my roommate (another American who came here at the same time I did) hasn’t received anything regarding taxes. Lucky me 🙂
Hello Stephen,
Basically, for many reasons Auto-Entrepreneur is not a good choice if you’re sure to make more than 32 K€.
Choosing the right Legal Status is the first step (EI, EIRL, SA, SARL, Liberal). Then, depends on your goals, your adviser should help you to take the good decision to get the balance sheet (bilan comptable) you need.
I like your blog. It also helps me to improve my (bad) English.
Good luck with your citizenship applying. It will be great when You’ll be a “compatriote” 😉
Mi2
Congratulations!! This is a very happy intermediate ending!! I too am astonished at all the innovations they’ve been implementing. What next? A humane treatment in all the administration offices?!
(Belated) felicitations and thanks for sharing your experience so that we all may learn! I’m on the same path as you, on my second year as visiteur and hoping to get my first CDS as profession liberale next year. I’m in the research phase, and this is invaluable. I had the pleasure of the SMS from the prefecture and electronic timbres when I last renewed – who knows what crazy innovations will be in place by the time I go for my (fingers crossed) four-year card! Thanks again 🙂
Has anyone been able to get a carte vitale with a long-term visitor visa? My understanding is that the law says we’re eligible but we’ve been hitting administrative roadblocks.
What kind of longterm visitor visa?
I’ve received my CV (4 months after the application was sent off, and just 5 months after my arrival in France, I think it’s considered fast here already…)
Did you check the ameli website for the documents required for application for CV for people with your situation (the kind of longterm visa you’re on)?
I thought for this kind of visa you have to get your own health insurance and provide proof of this when you apply for the visa?
Check out PUMA, it’s something kind of new here but supposed to mean healthcare coverage for everyone, you just need to have stayed here legally for more than 3 months to apply, but then I’m not sure if it applies to the kind of longterm visitor visa you’re on though.
I believe that I need to rectify a couple of things as I answer your question.
YOU
Has anyone been able to get a carte vitale with a long-term visitor visa? My understanding is that the law says we’re eligible but we’ve been hitting administrative roadblocks.
ME
If I answered your question literally I would have to answer NO, it is impossible. I believe that you are referring to an immigration status called “VISITEUR” and not the visa. Therefore once you hold the OFII stamp which the initial immigration status, then YES, you are eligible to sign onto the public health coverage scheme, ASSURANCE MALADIE, and you get it through your local CPAM.
There are 2 conditions the CPAM is very strict with:
1 – prove that you live here and you are indeed an immigrant and not an extended tourist.
2 – the birth certificate issue.
So if you could be more specific regarding what kind of issues are you faced with, I could help.
Also for about a year (most of 2016) CPAM had a very strict interpretation of what is an immigrant, residing in France, and holding a carte de séjour ‘visiteur’ was not a sufficient immigration status. Now this ruling has been reversed.
Do you have a reference to the ruling that was reversed? It sounds relevant to our situation.
My wife has been here since 2014. We’ve been renting a house here for 2 years. She has been in France this entire time except for two week-long trips to London. She has a carte de séjour visiteur. We’ve been told by OFII and the CPAM English language helpline (in the latter case at least a dozen times) that we are eligible with the CDS visiteur, and that the only requirement is that we have been residing legally in France for 91 days. We were told that the type visa was irrelevant (I’m a software engineer and can work remotely, so I work for a US company, get paid in US dollars from which US federal and state taxes are deducted, and what is left gets deposited in a US bank. Thus the CDS visiteur). When I went to OFII for my titre de séjour, they actually handed me the CPAM application forms. We made an application to the préfecture (in our case in Vannes), had all the documents translated (quittance, utility bills, Orange bills, birth certificates, proof of income, etc), submitted them, and waited. When we checked on the status after two months, we were told that they couldn’t issue it to a CDSV. We went to the office of our local deputé, and his assistant called CPAM in Vannes, and from what I was able to understand, he was told that they literally couldn’t enter the application into the computer because CDSV wasn’t an option in the software. Also that French law is very complicated, and that this was a decree rather than a law, and that we should probably take this to a jurist. We’ve never actually been denied a carte vitale, either, it’s just been in limbo.
Charles,
If you want me to help you with this situation, you must much more precise describing the situation. I believe that there are a lot of errors made, and I tried to identify some of them but I am not sure I got all of them.
PUMa & Carte de séjour -VISITEUR-
This is quoting the PUMa regulation. There is a lot more to this especially when you add the carte de séjour mention visiteur in it. Keep in mind one thing, the foreigner MUST prove that payment of premiums towards the health coverage.
CPAM & carte de séjour -visiteur-
CPAM reversed indeed a ruling that was in forced during the year 2016. “VISITEUR” was excluded of the then CMU/PUMa coverage. Today it goes through without problem on that end.
Préfecture & PUMa & CPAM software does not discriminate between the cartes de séjour
This makes absolute no sense at all. I am guessing of a different reason. As stated above the applicant to the carte de séjour must prove paying for the health coverage and this is not mentioned in the description. I assume that there is also an error here, it must be CPAM and not prefecture here where the file was submitted.
This is not true anymore and also the software is not set up this way, it does not discriminate between the cartes de séjour that I know off.
The 3 most common problems
I believe that I can help as I have done quite often. These people are not using the right wording to explain the situation.
These are the issues that currently exist and for some of them there is just a need to push with a higher hierarchy.
1 – old regulation the “visiteur” is refused, then appeal the decision or resubmit
2 – insufficient proof of a lawful stay in France – the carte de séjour and the French income tax is not enough, sometime 3 proof per month for 6 months is barely enough to prove the physical stay in France while holding the CDS visiteur.
3 – mysterious calculation by Orléans URSSAF regarding the PUMa premium such that Americans with retirement payments from the USA do not count and therefore do not pay premiums which excludes them from holding a CDS visiteur.
Quick question. I need to get a recipisse because I am in the same boat as you describe above. What do I else would I need to take (in addition to the passport) to this 19-21 Rue Truffaut address?
Hello Stephen,
Thank you for your informative blog. I have some questions specific to my situation and hope that you may have the answers for me, who’s in the process of applying for a Long term visa as a non-EU national married to a French citizen. We’re moving to France after several years abroad and this is my first time going to stay in France beyond the 90-day tourist visa period.
May I know what are the vaccinations that are required? I have a vaccination card, a yellow booklet issued to me when I lived in Germany for a year in 2012, but it only contained the vaccinations I did within that year. Before that and since then, I’ve had more vaccinations that I collected on multiple different cards, having lived in different places. I was thinking I could compile a comprehensive list by myself and show that, but it won’t be “official” so I’m guessing it won’t work… Would bringing my list to a French GP doctor and asking him to “officialize” it do (assuming he/she would)?
Regarding the X-ray, do you know if there is a way to be exempted from it? i.e. If I show medical proof like a blood test result or a previous vaccination record that I don’t have whichever maladies they are scanning for? I am currently preggers and that is the last thing I want to do, even if plenty of people say “it’s alright”. (My doctor did say “better not” :p )
I am currently in France (already went to the prefecture and got thrown out >_<) and in a few weeks, I will be going back to my home country to cobble together all the necessary documents and get all the admin stuff sorted out, so if you've any tips on anything I can do now in France it'll help save me another round-trip ticket O_O. In any case, your blog is really a great help. Thanks in advance and cheers!
You will get an immigration visa, which I believe lasts for 3 months so you can start the prefecture procedure to obtain the carte de séjour. In the middle of this complete immigration procedure there is the physical done by OFII.
In French the mandatory vaccinations
le vaccin anti-diphtérique,
le vaccin anti-tétanique,
le vaccin anti-poliomyélitique,
I am guessing here but if you lived in Germany, you must have them. So even though I hear your concerns, I do not share them in this case as you should not need any new ones and furthermore, OFII does not demand them as such. So you can go through the procedure without having to prove them on the spot.
I cannot answer about being pregnant. I dealt with a few cases where the people had such major medical conditions that the physical routine had to be changed for them according to what they were able to handle.
So if I draw the same comparison, it should not be a problem regarding your condition.
Here we are dealing with a strategy issue.
(1)The prefecture is going to give you the official legal answer, which is going back to your country to ask for a visa at the French consulate because it is a big deal for them that non EU citizens enter legally in France when they wish to immigration.
(2) I tell you that the article 313-11-4º allows you to ask for a carte de séjour WITHOUT THE VISA. This means that you accept to be an undocumented alien asking for a special favour as defined in the law. You would lose all rights to stay in France legally if you stop living together within 3 years.
So you have a choice and I believe that (2) sounds better than (1). I have attached the copy of the law to prove my case.
Thank you for your blog posts! They are very helpful in figuring out this process. My question concerns the long stay visa. Do you know if the Long Stay Visa permits multiple exits/entries out of France and the Schengen zone? My family and I want to live for a year in France but I would need to commute back to the United States usually once but possibly twice a month during that time for a total of 10-14 days away while my family would stay in France. Also, though we would live in France, I would probably sometimes fly out of Geneva because of the close proximity of the airport there. Would flying out of Switzerland back to the US cause any problems with the visa?
Thanks!
Once you have the visa you can come and go as you please. Though, I don’t know why you would choose to fly out of Geneva – you have to take a 3 hour train to get there and CH is notorious for its expensive flights in and out.
My long term visa expires on the 20th April 2018 however my contractual obligations with a school in Lyon ends in May. What can I do to extend my stay?
Renew your visa for one month, two months, whatever.
I’m a US citizen and will apply for a long term visitor visa, I’m retired (67). I’m concerned about the financial means required. My late husband died of cancer a few years ago and I had to use our retirement IRA to pay for hospital costs and treatments. It wiped out our IRA. I have managed to save about $70,000 in savings, also have my social security which is $2300 per month. I will co-own a home in France with my sister who will also retire there. We’ll love together. Will my savings and income be enough for the visas? I’ll be applying through San Francisco Consulate.
Rose – with $70,000 in savings, you far exceed the means test required. Worry not. 🙂
Stephen, thank you. For a year I haven’t applied for fear I would be rejected.
Haha, I meant in the previous message my sister and I will live together…
I’ll update to let you know how it goes.
We decided to buy in the north east, close to a prefecture, hopefully in the same city.
Thank you,
Rose
Stephen, I have another question. Today I went to my tax preparer and because I have no earned income and only Social Security, the Federal government will not accept my tax return. Evidently with only Social Security, there’s no way to e-file or send a paper tax return in. The San Francisco Consulate requires a recent tax return and perhaps more. I sent an email to them and asked what would be acceptable, I received the usual form letter from them with no advice regarding my predicament. Any suggestions?
Thank you,
Rose
Rose – dealing with the IRS is way outside my competence, and that of the blog 🙂
Stephen, I’ll post what I find out as to how the San Francisco Consulate responds and if they will accept previous returns without the most recent.
Thank you,
Rose
It’ll be interesting to hear! Thanks for keeping us posted.
Stephen, after sending an email to the San Francisco Consulate, I received the standard reply a day ago.
This morning I had a personal reply from the consulate.
My contact wrote that my social security statement of earnings will be fine.
I also found out after digging and calling, one can submit a tax return like mine, via..snail mail.
Thank you for a wonderful blog, it’s not often one can ask questions and receive information (correct and through experience).
I’ll keep everyone updated.
1) Can you send me your health insurance agent’s info?
2) Where can I get my USA birth certificate translated into French?
3) Q – I plan to move to Paris for a two year (part time masters program beginning in Setember 12, 2018). I don’t want to wait that long to move to Paris so I will go to Paris on a tourist visa May, June and part of July. Then, I plan to fly back to the USA for my consulate meeting in LA (to get my student visa), wait for it to be processed and then when approved, fly back to Paris as soon as I can. Does this sound like a reasonable plan? I just want to be sure I don’t have to be out of Paris for a certain amount of time in between the tourist visa expires + student visa begins? I have heard in Austria you have to make sure you are out of the country for at least 3 months so want to be sure this isnt the case in France. Thanks so much. I hope to hear back soon. Regards, Annie
Hi Annie – I’ve emailed you regarding questions 1 and 2. As for 3 – your plan sounds solid. Just make sure you have your appointment made and that you give yourself enough leeway to get an appointment in LA and your student visa before flying back. If you are back in LA in July and don’t come back to Paris until September I think that’s plenty of time for you to get your visa approved.
Dear Stephen
My daughter is in Lyon working as a English Teacher Assistant her contract ends 30th April 2018, however her long Stay visa ends on the 20th April. I contacted the Embassy in St Lucia because we are citizens of Trinidad and St Lucia is responsible for this region and they said that she has to leave the Schengen area, go to a Non Schengen region and return in order to be legal. I contacted the Police Prefecture using your Link and they referred me to The Police Prefecture in Lyon. So I wrote them about a month ago and I am still awaiting there response. Do you have any suggestions, my daughter is thinking of going to Ireland but I still feel it can be extended while in Lyon.
Neal there’s plenty of time to wait for a reply. If she really has to leave Schengen she can go to England, not Ireland.
Hi Stehen!
Congrats on getting through this process..
I am considering going this route…but would like to discuss this more with someone who has gone through it. I have an arts background, but am not interested in the talent visa. I would like to remain free to do various things like broadening the scope of my new podcast and product dev, etc.
I read you have templates. Might I email you direct to get a sense which you think might be best for an artist working to develop a location indie business? I wasn’t finding the email button here.
Just wanted to share my experience with something a few people have asked about during this thread, which is staying on for 3 months extra after a long-stay visa expires.
I can confirm that I had no issues getting back into France: I flew to London the day my visa expired, and flew back the very next day. No issues at all coming back into France.
I did, however, have a minor issue arriving in London, which I thought was very strange. They instantly identified that I was on the final day of my French visa, and I was honest and said the purpose of my trip to London was just to get out and get back in to France. The lady spoke to her supervisor, then came back and was just trying her best to be the most miserable person possible.
She told me (is this even legal) that if I tried to come back into the UK in the next 6 months I would NOT be allowed in, but that I’d be let in this time “as a favor.” It had something to do with “If you would do this to France, you could do it in my country, as well,” as if I was doing something illegal. When I very politely tried to explain what I was doing was legal, and not even a loophole but expressly allowed, she cut me off for doubting her because “I live here, I know the law,” (never mind that we were talking about France, not the UK).
Anyway, they let me in, and I’m not sure they have any reason not to let anyone else in, but perhaps it’s something to keep an eye on for anyone looking to do the same.
Thanks for the heads up.
Hi Stephen-
Thanks for your help in advance!
I am a dancer moving from NYC to Paris, and will be sponsored by a french dance company. I plan to spend 3 months, beginning next month, on the tourist visa to practice my french etc., then back to the US for 2 months, then will return to France and begin working with the company.
Is it possible to begin applying for the working visa while in France during the 3 month stay? (I believe you mentioned above that you must apply for the long stay visitor visa in your home country, but wonder if applying for work visa is different).
Does the timing mentioned above generally seem ok? Or would I need 3 months before re-entry, even if on a different visa?
Thank you!
Sarah
The three month waiting period you are referring to only applies to those utilizing the paperless “tourist visa.” If you’re applying for anything beyond that, they don’t care whether you returned from France the morning of your appointment in the US. 😉
Hello, I got a 6 month visa instead of a 12 month. Do I still need to present my forms to the OFII and have the medical exam/validate the visa long sejour? Or only if staying longer than 6 months?
It’s great to read your experiences in Paris. I’ve been spending time in Paris for more than 30 years- sometimes for years at a time. I think it will be part of my life forever.
You’ve gone way deeper than I though, maybe because I’ve never committed as you have – work and family are a constant pull back to the states so permanently relocating is still a fantasy – maybe when I retire!
it is great site, so thanks,
minimum period of stay(presence) in france for long stay visitor visa for one year ? in other word how long clients can stay outside of france in order there is no problem for renewal process?is there any minimum stay requirements(presence physically)?
thanks
You might have figured out that the site is moderated, so in future, you don’t need to leave the same comment multiple times 🙂
The answer to your question is simple: the minimum period is not one year, but six months. As far as physical presence requirements, there is no way for them to really enforce that, but you are expected to be there for the majority of the time, since you are applying for such a visa.
Hi all,
I have a question regarding my situation and I will appreciate if you give me heads up.
I came to France with a six month internship visa. While I am still waiting for the Ofii appointment to get the sticker on my visa, next month my visa expires. But my research is not finished yet and I would like to extend my contract. How to proceed to extend my visa?? Is it possible to extend it?
Thanks,
Harken
Harken
There is no OFII visit for a 6-month visa. You should probably apply for a renewal and obtain a recipisse in the meantime.
Thank you for the reply Stephan. Just to clear up my visa type was D and when I got the visa I also received a form to fill up and send to OFII. Are you saying that I should not wait for an appointment?
Also do you know where should I apply for the renewal and how long it takes to process? What is recipisse?
Sorry I am new to French system,
Thanks
You’ll find answers to these questions in the blog. Search for the words “recipisse” and “renewal”
A few questions for the kind helpers on this thread:
I was on a 1-year long-stay visitor’s visa living with my girlfriend while she did a masters (I work remotely). As she was close to finishing her masters, and we didn’t plan on staying, I let my visa expire.
Now it seems she might get a good job offer in France, and we may stay. So, I’ll plan on applying for the same visa as before in the United States.
Will this be an issue? I know it would have been preferable to renew and not start the process over, but it’s too late for that. Is simply applying for the same visa again a problem legally in any way?
Secondly, is anyone aware of how long before my desired arrival date in France I can apply for a long-stay visa? I recall reading 90 days, but I can’t seem to find that source again.
Christian
No problem to apply for a new visa. There may be a section asking if you have applied/received a visa in the past and this time obviously your answer will be different.
The 90 days you read about is still correct.
So Christian you have overstayed your visa. Wouldn’t the French Embassy look at that as an Infraction on your part. My daughter had a similar situation and on the the her visa expired I made her leave the Schengen region and re-enter,this was done upon the advice of the embassy for our region.
Neal has a point. At the point the French don’t know you have overstayed your visa, but popping over to London and coming back under a tourist visa would solve this problem and get you 90 more days. But then you need to get out, especially if you’re trying to stay on the good side of the immigration authorities.
Neal/Steven,
I’ve already done what both of you suggested, left the Schengen Zone and come back in to stay for 90 more days legally(As I initially assumed we’d only be staying 2-3 months after the expiration of my visa, this seemed much more simple than renewing for an entire year). I didn’t over-stay on my 1-year visitor’s visa, and I definitely don’t plan on overstaying my 90 day tourist visa.
Under those circumstances all should be well, correct?
Yes.
Hey all,
In the process of applying for a visa again from the US (I understand this page is generally about renewing, but it’s the best resource I’ve found on the web for visa advice).
The listed requirements are slightly different than last time I applied. One of the things listed is the following:
“Permit issued by the order on which the applicant depends”
I can’t make sense of what this means. I’m self-employed, working remotely, and last time I had to have a signed and notarized letter swearing not to seek employment in France (along with bank statements showing proof of income/savings).
Is this essentially asking for the same thing with different language?
Also, offhand, can anyone recommend an insurance company/policy that would satisfy the following requirements: minimum coverage 30,000 euros, no deductible or co-pay, medical repatriation.
thanks,
Christian Parrett
Hi Christian,
Not sure about the cryptic comment (makes no sense to me either), but I have a travel policy with Allianz that exceeds those specs and only cost me a whopping $42/year. I got the visa last year with this policy, so it should work. Best I’ve found, hands down. I believe they call it “One Trip Premier”. Good luck!
Rachel – that sounds like travel insurance that has a health benefit, not health insurance, and one of my clients who successfully got a a visa with such a policy (it’s the pricepoint that raised my suspicions) did not pass muster for renewal, when he found out it was just travel insurance, not health insurance. He got insurance and got his renewal.
Ah, that could very well be. I didn’t try to renew on it. Good to know!
Christian
May just be a bad translation. Update us if it turns out to be some secret passphrase we don’t know! 🙂
Thank you for this post Jean.
Oh Airbnb is a love/hate relationship for sure. But oh how I value it for when I visit Paris and elsewhere as coming from NYC and a shared apt. in the Bronx, I LOVE having an entire apt. to myself for as long as I can.
I am glad to have the “in-scoop” as I plan my next trip. I recently bought a one-way ticket to Paris and I am now considering how long I would want to make that travel for (a weekend, a week, a month, three months, a visa situation…). So glad I found your blog.
Hi again Stephen, I am renewing my long stay visa for the third time (I got the stamp in passport, then the pink card). Do I need to do the birth certificate translation again? They should have that on file right? I sent a note tonight to the people who did the translation last year to get another copy, but I thought of you and thought I would ask. I also had to get copies of my divorce papers (for my legal name here to be my maiden name again) – do you think they want these again too? Everything else is in order I think. Appreciate your thoughts.
Barbara
Once you have an official translation, it is good indefinitely, so you don’t need to do a new translation. Bring it along (those people should have given you a digital copy which you can reprint at your leisure). Bring everything you brought last time, and it should go as well as it did before 🙂 Keep us posted.
Thanks a lot. I had contacted my translators and they have a copy they can email me. But they have to re-certify it and the cost is 35Euro (cost for translation the first time was 50Euro). I didn’t want to pay it if you didn’t think I need it, but just sent them a note to send it. You are really a valuable resource and we appreciate you.
Barbara – I’ve used my original translation, which was done in 2014, multiple times. There’s no date on my translation, so I think the “recertification” is a “welfare for translators” trick, but it’s up to you. The 35 euros might be worth the peace of mind and not having to revisit for a new appointment, then again, I don’t like spending unnecessary money, and given that your info hasn’t changed, the idea of “recertifying” a translation they already did is ludicrous to me, and I would refuse on principle. You’ve been duly warned 🙂
Great info – I was like WHAT?? It’s an admin fee for sending it to me i bet. But I can’t find a copy of my translation in my files so will bite the bullet on this one!
Also, do you have a link to the application form? I see the general Schengen form – which i remember filling out for my original VISA application back in SF, but don’t remember doing this last year when I applied for the second time (got my pink card).
And lastly, I took the stamps in when I picked up my card, but was reading somewhere they like you to bring for the application. I will get them anyway and be prepared!
Thanks, Barbara
Oh, and do I need to download another application form??
Yes. It’s another renewal, so just do everything you did last year.
Hi,
I live in Grenoble, France and my titre de sejour/work visa is about to expire at the end of this month. I couldn’t get an appointment at the prefecture to renew until after it expires, but the lady at pre-accueil told me c’est pas grave and I can renew my visa. I am americaine and am wondering if I were to see the prefecture at this date after my visa expires, will I be able to stay in France or be forced to go back home to my city in the US? What do you think?
Thanks for this great post. I have a question about your non-French source of income. I also have a small non-French source of income from working online and am also on the long-stay visitor visa.
When I applied for my visa, I provided a letter from my employer explaining that I will continue to work remotely from home, wherever that is: and I was given the visa – all they wanted to know was that I would not take a job on French soil with a French company.
I’ve read some blogs on the internet which say that working at all while on a visitor visa, even if it is online being paid back home (and not working at all in France) is not allowed and now I am stressed!
I see you mentioned your online work – and that they liked to see your source of income too.
I guess I’m just seeking reassurance that working online now and then and being paid back home, and not in France, is allowed whilst on the long stay visitor visa.
Also – did you declare your tax while on this visa, and declare your non french income?
Thanks !
Martine
I don’t know about those other blogs – but they are clueless. The French government has no power to stop you from making income worldwide. Their chief income is concerned with your making income in France. Truth be told, most legal systems have not caught up with the reality that you may be a Brazilian, tutoring someone in China in English, while living in Canada. Is the income Brazilian, because that’s where your tutoring company is, or Chinese, because your customer is “receiving the service” there, or Canadian, because that’s where you’re living? The tax authorities of the world do not have the time to audit each and every person and his/her activities, and more importantly, you can legally construe it as you please. In this particular case, your employer has already stated that you will continue to work remotely and you earned a visa on that very basis! So, ignore the ignorant blogs.
What you do need to do is declare taxes if you have been here more than 183 days in the previous fiscal year. For example, if you arrived in December 2016, you would not need to file taxes in the 2017 year, as you only spent 30 some days in France the previous year and could not be a fiscal resident. However, if you are here more than 183 days you have to file a tax return here, in which you will declare your non-French income. I wrote about it here:
If you need the name of an accountant to help you prepare those taxes (you may not owe anything, but you’ll still need to pay to file them) email me and I’ll connect you.
Wow, you are so helpful, and I am so grateful. THANK YOU!!!!!!
I would really love the name of a tax accountant that speaks English. Thank you again!
I was just in a panic about the exact same issue and then found your article and was relieved and grateful for the information! So, I just wanted to say a big thank you!!! 🙂
Hi Stephen, your posts are so helpful, I don’t think I would have managed to get my long-stay visitor visa renewed without them. In relation to the professionale libre visa, I see that you say you have have to earn over a certain income over the next five years. Is this income from French companies? Also, are you able to tell me how much you are required to earn to meet the visa requirements? I can’t find this information anywhere. Many thanks, Lisa
The income is from wherever you want. You will have a new French company which will be a repository for your revenues. When you’re obtaining the visa, you’re simply making a projection to them of what you think you will earn, which will need to be a living wage for yourself (at least 24k in euros per year). Obviously you may have a slow start and may not hit that number in the first year, but that’s a question for your renewal, not for obtaining the visa. You’re still thinking in terms of the long-term stay visa, in which you need to prove that you can live without working. This visa precisely is about working, so it’s more about proving how you will earn. No guarantees.
Hey, I’m applying from Israel for a 1 year visa in France.
I’m getting all the documentation ready, and in no place does it mention involving a notary.
In fact in their website it says:
Attention : all documents written in languages other than French or English must be translated into French.
So from what I understand, if my bank statements, my health insurance, my “promise not to work blah blah” are in english, I won’t need a notary.
What do you say?
Thanks!
Ore – in no place in this article does the word “notary” appear 🙂
I have a strange question!
I’m in Paris on a 6-month visitor visa (no work allowed) that expires December 1 and I’d like to renew for another six months.
I was offered 3 months of freelance work in the US and since money is money, and I’m not allowed to work in France, I’d like to consider it.
However, 3 months would mean I’m in the States after the December 1 expiration of my visa.
Would taking this freelance job affect my ability to reenter France on another visa? Would I need to apply for a brand new visa in the US? Or would I have to return to Paris for the prefecture meeting before December 1 to renew?
Steve – not exactly strange but slightly complicated.
It’s not relevant where you are on December 1. The question is do you want a renewal of your visa (way easier) or do you want to restart the process? I would go for a renewal and the time to your appointment might actually be three months! You’ll need to get a recipisse to cover you during that time and/or if it’s not quite 3 months, schedule a time to get back to Paris to do a renewal.
Great story and review, l am a mature female here in France pour appende la langue aussi.
I have been learning for 2 years in Australia and whilst the immersion course is intense, it is great fun.
But l would say, make sure you are staying in accommodation that suit you. Many of us at the school were not specific enough when asking the school to find us homestay accommodation. I would definitely share an apartment or share like you have indicated, many languages, many experiences and ages, fantastic opportunity
But I was quite confused. Or maybe each Prefecture is different? I went to the Prefecture of Doubs asking about the list of documents required for renewal but it doesn’t include giving 12 months of bank statement. Not sure if I should bring mine along? And there’re another things like declaration to non-polygamy?
And just wondering if it is really necessary to translate the birth certificate extract?
Denise
I do think each prefecture is different – I have zero experience with Doubs so I wouldn’t know whether they are as strict regarding bank statements – but I am only listing what worked for me, not what “may work” for others. As I say – it’s always better to have too much documentation for the French than not enough.
I can tell you, unequivocally, though, that it is really necessary to translate the birth certificate. For purposes of immigration, the French authorities ***cannot read*** English.
This is such a helpful resource, thank you. I wonder if you might tell me whether the immigration authorities will hold my passport for any duration of time during my renewal? Poor planning on my part, I will be flying to Barcelona the day after my appointment, for several days.
Thank you,
Sabrina
Sabrina – on a renewal the passport simply serves as ID. Unless you are getting a sticker in a passport you never need to leave it. You only had to do that the first time.
Well all it’s been five years of open comments on this post, and I’ve since added a free facebook group to handle many of the questions which regularly appear in these comments. I’ll direct you there for further comments/questions.
Well all it’s over three years of open comments on this post, and I’ve since added a free facebook group to handle many of the questions which regularly appear in these comments. I’ll direct you there for further comments/questions.
Thanks for a clear, comprehansive desciption of what is needed to rent an apartment in Paris. When I watch the rental process unfolding on shows like House Hunters International, none of these requirements are ever mentioned. This is (the beginning of) a good education for would-be expats.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for another helpful post. A few questions:
1. As you need your Carte de Sejour, for recent arrivals in France, it’s best to wait until after the appointment with OFII, correct?
2. I understand starting a French bank account and showing activity is an important part of being granted a renewal, but I’ll still be allowed to show funds from US accounts to demonstrate my financial situation, correct? For example, investment/retirement accounts in the US, savings accounts that I don’t want to dissolve back in the US, etc.
3. For long-stay visitor visa holders, working remotely, does opening a bank account in France change any tax situation/liability?
1 I don’t see any reason to wait until after the OFII visit. Your original visa sticker is just as valid – the OFII sticker is just a confirmation of the visa but the bank won’t care.
2 Yes. You’re obliged to show that you’re adapting to life in France, not dissolving all your ties to other countries.
3 This is a question for your accountant but all foreign bank accounts holding over $10k USD equivalent must be reported to the US government. The French expect you to have money in a French account but as long as it’s not income earned in France your LTS visa won’t be in jeopardy.
Translation fees vary wildly depending on the type of document so there is no “typical fee” per page. Just expect to pay more than you might expect. For some context, my birth certificate cost 72 euros.
W2 forms are for the US government and don’t mean anything to the French. Your tax return is what they would want.
Hello, do the French Banks have a internal system to check our US Tax Returns.
The likelihood that any foreign government has some kind of direct access to the IRS system is remote, indeed.
More importantly, why would they care? A bank is not a taxing authority.
It’s all starting to make sense. I was wondering why your (wonderfully concise and well-written) blog effortlessly drops into my cognitive understanding while others on the same subject(s) make my head spin. You are an ENTJ! I’m an INTJ. I admit that your “E” energy makes the “I” in me want to lay down and take a restorative, contemplative nap, but you also provide the long-sought-after logical framework and, yes, action steps, my NTJ requires to realize my dream of spending as much time as possible in France — the sooner the better. Thank you for chronicling your path and sharing your wisdom and expertise!
Still enjoying your blog, Stephen. TIFF can also mean the Tromso International Film Festival in Norway. Headed up by my cousin (by marriage), Martha Otte. Above the arctic circle and, I believe, the northernmost international film festival in the world. https://tiff.no/en Have I been? Sadly, no. One day…
Thanks for all the info on your blog…super helpful.
I’m here on a visa Long Sejour Temporaire that’s marked « dispense temporaire de carte de séjour ». My understanding of this is that I’m not required to register with OFII which also means that I’m not able to renew the visa here in France.
Hi Stephen, always good to read your posts. Following your advice, my daughter has opted for moving to the UK instead of France, for the english education it offers with resultant wider global options. Thank you again for meeting with us in 2016, she made the move in 2017. God bless, always good to hear from you.
I have a bit of a unique situation. I would love some advice asap !! I had a student visa, and during that, I was living in Paris. Now that my studies are over, I’ve moved to Enghien-Les-Bains (just 15 minutes north from gare du nord) – and I’m trying to take an APS. I’ve faced a few issues, one being that my recipisse is expiring in 4 days on the 31st. The second is that, now that I’m living in Enghien, and my visa is from Paris, there’s issues with what prefecture I have to go to in order to complete the process.
Now, again, my recipisse expires in 4 days and I have a rdv at the prefecture in Sarcelles (95) not Paris on the 4th of february. BUT my recipisse will be expired by then. My question is – do you have an idea of where I should go to get this recipisse renewed ? Can I go to the 17th tomorrow morning with my stuff and they’ll do it even though my rdv for my APS is not in paris ?
Dear Stephen thank you for your blog, as it gives us lots of information. I just moved to Paris to complete MS study for a year, maybe will stay for another one after i get a job, but today when I went to open bank account at Societe Generale with my school friends who fluently speak french, the minute they saw my US passport they refused to open any bank account for me and told me to look for another brunch.
With your experience and where you branch with a bank, i dont speak french and asking school friends to come with me will be annoying, would you be able to recommend me branch that you use that you know someone speaks english there? it would be highly appreciated
It’s not clear to me that someone with a student visa is going to be able to get a bank account. You will need something with a more permanent status, not a more understanding bank 🙂
Yes. Usually the student visa gives someone legal residence so they can be here long enough to go to school, but if you already have legal residence, you’re free to enroll and don’t need to bother about that visa.
My son Joseph received his Illinois drivers license 18 months ago.
Since he has double nationality French/USA, he applied to exchange his Illinois permit for a French permis de conduire.
We received a temporary drivers license from Nantes but they have now said we have to prove that he has lived in the US for one year. I understand that proof of residence is not needed if he is bi-national. Can you confirm this information?
I tried to move to Paris permanently in summer of 2018, but I couldn’t find housing and returned to the US after 30 days. I was able to open a bank account with CIC with someone’s help. I currently have about 9 euros in this account and they charge over 7 euros monthly. I would like to eventually return to France again to live long term in the future. Do you recommend I add more money to this account to keep it active? Or close it? The person who helped said not to close it no matter what since it’s so difficult to get a bank account there. Thanks for your reply.
This is incorrect. The exchange is only possible if the applicant proves he/she has lived in the state that issued the license. My daughter is also bi-national and stayed with her grand mother in DE, and went through the exact procedure and had her license exchanged in Rennes and we provided the proof that she lived there for more than 6 months which made her a fiscal and therefore a legal resident of that state.
My daughter took kind of gap year, and went to stay with her grand mother in DE. If I remember correctly she was there for about 9 months. She had nothing in her name in terms of proving that she was living in that address. What is called in French “preuve de domicile récent”. So it was quite complicated for the DMV to accept her proof of living there with the grand-mother’s affidavit of lodging and support and her utility bills and so on. Finally she got her American license.
When she went back to Rennes, she had the proof that she had lived in DE for all that time as she had it from her DMV visit and she was renting her own studio with everything in her name including the tuitions of Sup de Co. Rennes. That part was extremely easy.
I’m French, working in Paris and who have a master degree in human ressources, so I’m very aware about french working laws.
I agree with 80% of this article, but. I said I’m french so of course there is a but. A french worker gets paid less american worker. For exemple, the state takes 25% of my salary each month + 10% of my annual salary each year. (It can goes to 30% depending on your job but the mininum is 22%)
I’m 26, with a master degree and earn around 3000€ each month. But the state take 750€.
Each year, the state also takes 10% of the 27 000 I really earned (2250×12 months), so 2700.
In one year, state took me 750×12 = 9000, + 2700, so 11700. I earn 24300 while I’m working for 36000. And this is more than 70% of french workers.
also, there is 20% taxes on goods. You buy car, you have to pay 20% more to the state, same for a house, a phone, a bed, a new sofa… And around 5% on food.
So yes, we have many rights as a workers but we pay for it… and it costs a lot. Think about it.
Okay, but who cares if Americans get paid more if the health care in America costs 2000% more than what the French pay? Do you know how much a single man has to pay for health insurance per month? At least $500 USD. Where does the “extra pay” go now? What about transportation? In 98% of locations in the US it is impossible to live without a car – that means car payment, petrol, insurance, registration, upkeep. You can live in Paris and survive with the metro or bicycle or even just your legs. Now add the mandatory US car costs to your total. That’s just two things that French people take for granted (health care and transportation) that are extremely expensive in America. Whatever imaginary “extra money” you think the Americans make go directly to these costs, among many other stupid things.
When you’ve lived and worked outside of France you’ll understand just how good the French have it. 🙂 For now I’ll chalk up your reply to the usual “Yes, but” attitude of the French 🙂
Well considering the population centers of Lille, Lyon, Paris, Nantes, Marseilles, etc. all have public transportation, I think you mean 99% of geographic France. But population-wise, that’s clearly not the case. Most of the population of France don’t need a car to survive and I think as high as 1/3 of the French population don’t even possess a driver’s license.
Hi Stephen! Great post. I’m curious as to why you did not mention the « passeport talent » visa? It seems like a nice medium between PL and Visitor, but I could be totally wrong as there is not much info online. Do you have any good references to read more about the « passeport talent » visa when applying as an American?
Julia – I don’t mention that visa because it’s nonrenewable and it’s wonky. You need to put together a compelling dossier and only two of the people I’ve ever worked with actually were interested in and obtained it. It’s a “I’m here in France for three years and then I’m leaving” visa and since this blog has always been concerned with making a life in France, I consider it in the au pair and student categories: temporary situations.
Hey Stephen! Thanks for the quick response. Interesting, the wording is really tricky then because the Service-Public website says: “Elle est valable 4 ans maximum et renouvelable.”
I have had several of your blog entries saved for more than a year because I found them when researching our France move and knew they would be very helpful when the time came for things like renewal, etc. When I looked at this entry today (because I, too, have a renewal appointment AFTER my LSV expires), I noticed your photo on the side . . . and realized that you are also the Hitchcock meetup guru! I owe you DOUBLE thanks! Seems that I should officially subscribe. Thanks for all you do! Merci!
Bonjour Stephen!
This is great information, thank you. I do have one clarification question. You say that you are not stuck in the Visitors visa and you can change at any time. As a 15 year business owner here in the US, i’m planning on starting a new business in France with my partner who is a French Citizen. We are not quite ready to form the company yet but will be in about 6- 8 months. I’m planning on relocating in May/June of this year. Would you recommend a Visitors Visa first and then transition to the PL?
Merci!
As I said Annette, you cannot transition from Visitor to PL until after your first renewal, so you’ll need to be under visitor status for 2 full years before changing over if you decide to go that route.
Hello, I am a US citizen with a pied a terre in Paris. The BNPPARIBAS just told me they were closing my account. No explanation. I went to other banks. Some says inmediately no when I say I am a US citizen , others ask for a visa in my passport. I explained that we do not need a visa to enter the Schengen area, they just said it was a requirement. I need then bank account to pay EDF, taxes, insurances, etc. What to do? I don’t have a carte de sejour.
Nothing you can do. FATCA is an American thing. It has made life for Americans abroad really challenging. Since you don’t have legal residence here (no CDS) BNP is not going to spend compliance money on you, it seems. Sorry about that. As I referenced, get a transferwise borderless account. It’s free and you can still do European transactions when necessary.
Hello,
I am American living in Montpellier, France since 2006. I have never had an issue with banks and was able to buy a house and refinance my mortgage. I have a full time job and good/stable income.
End of last year, I sold my house as I wanted to build a new one. Also, this January, my car broke down. Now I need a new mortgage and a small loan to buy a car. The issue is that banks and insurance institutions are refusing my application. The reason: You are AMERICAN.
The first time I heard about this, I though it to be a joke or some banks exceptions, but almost 6 months on, I still cannot get these credit approved.
Some banks ( like Credit Agricole or Foncier) said that they would give me a mortgage if I can get outside insurance. To my surprise, only GENERALI agreed to insure me so I have no a way of comparing offers. Even with this insurance, I still don’t have a loan from these banks.
I have contacted the USA embassy in Paris, but I was told this to be a private matter and that they cannot force a French businesses to serve people.
I am stuck.
The French citizen are being served OK in USA, why are the USA citizen being discriminated against here in France !
Do you have or know any case like this one ? Do you have any advice ?
Tina they are discriminating because of our idiotic law called FATCA which makes them spend millions in compliance. The market is responding: dump American clients rather than comply with onerous reporting burdens. Only way out is to get another citizenship and renounce. Then you will no longer be a « US person » and will be free to do more things.
Is this recent dumping of American clients making it significantly more difficult to start a bank account as an American? Or is showing your Carte de Sejour and making it clear you understand your legal right to an account still enough in most cases?
Christian these comments are « recent » but the dumping has been going on for years. Having a CDS will make it easier but it is by no means easy to get an account as it was pre FATCA
Hello Stephen..
I found out about FATCA yesterday from a blog.
I then checked the IRS website and was horrified. We really do not have anywhere to go.
We just have to seat and wait as it is not that easy to get a French citizenship which takes over 2 years and even harder to divorce the US.
To Christian Parret….
Yes it is almost impossible to open a new account if you are a US person in France now.
Sorry…just keep going around you may get luck at one bank.
That solution of French citizenship only works if you then renounce your US citizenship. It doesn’t matter how many passports you have, as long as one of them is blue with a bald eagle gripping arrows, you will be considered a « US person » by FATCA and the banks worldwide.
Not completely true. If you are a French citizen residing in France with a US citizenship, Société Générale will open a bank account for you. They will not open a bank account for you if you are a non resident French citizen with a US citizenship. By the way, any french citizen can file a complaint with the Banque de France to force a bank to open a bank account. BRED and BRED espace has no problem with US citizens has they do a lot of business with expats around the world. They will not give you any issue. I know that for a fact since I opened an account with them and I am a dual national living in the US.
Jean – you’re a French citizen. This is not the case for the majority of the readers of this blog who do not have such abilities to file complaints in the way you describe. It’s also not a situation I covered in this article 🙂
Stephen, it just shows that you do not have to renounce citizenship if you have both the US citizenship and the French citizenship. I would encourage US citizens who have the possibility to become French citizens to do so.
Jean – I agree – and I have documented a path to become a French citizen via this blog. I think perhaps you are referring to this quote: “Tina they are discriminating because of our idiotic law called FATCA which makes them spend millions in compliance. The market is responding: dump American clients rather than comply with onerous reporting burdens. Only way out is to get another citizenship and renounce. Then you will no longer be a « US person » and will be free to do more things.” Let me modify it to correspond to your position: “Another way is to get a French citizenship and not renounce.” 🙂
My response would be that if someone is eligible to apply for French citizenship, they probably aren’t struggling to open a bank account here…
Hello
I am a US citizen planning to apply for a long stay visa in France. My question is, if I am able to open a French bank account, do I have to report it to the irs if the account has less than $10,000 k in it.
You must report all foreign bank accounts to the US, regardless of the amount inside. You’re thinking of the US deposit rule in banks that auto reports 10k and up. Doesn’t apply here.
Merci beaucoup Jean for that information, my wife and i are considering a move to France for retirement and I have been researching this problematical issue for US citizens trying to obtain a local French bank.
Thanks for the interesting info regarding banks and dual citizenship.
I’m a Franco-Amercan, French and US tax compliant citizen, residing in France.
My long time bank has recently asked me to declare if I am a US citizen. I hesitate to tell them anything at all for fear of loosing the account. I wonder if being a US tax compliant citizen plays a role in the bank’s decision to keep me or “not bother” and kick me out. No way to know for sure until I ask them…and expose myself to the risk of loosing the account. Or I can put my head in the sand. Or I can lie and not admit US citizenship.
I would declare instead of lying but lean on your status as a French citizen to make sure you can retain your account as you have a right to. Don’t fear the worst in your case.
Thanks Stephen for your take on the situation, I appreciate it and I tend to agree.
I might add that the notion lying has a different value in France and in the US. As I remember it, the Clinton presidency was almost taken down, not for some terrible political act, but because he “lied” about his behaviour. And US tax and immigration authorities have no patience for lies at all. Lying in an absolute sin in the US. Lying in France however is not as severe. It’s not good behaviour but there’s more room for a little lying here and there. What’s more, it would mean lying to a French bank and not an administration, about a distant issue for them. And as for the US tax administration, I’m all clear with them anyways.
So as I ponder about my choices, I do so with both French and American cultures in mind, makes the choices a bit more complicated…
I am living in St Barth, a French Collectivity, and have been a resident for 3 years after marrying my husband (French). I had a medical condition that precluded me from driving so I did not get my driver’s license in the 1 year mandatory period. Also, my US driver’s license didn’t transfer because it is from Rhode Island and there is no agreement for my little home state.
So I guess I’m asking if I have to start all over again and take driving lessons?
I added the RIB pdf while applying for the UGC card, but can you tell me how am I paying. Since it never did ask for any debit card information or anything. After I put the RIB information, it just accepted and nothing more. Anyone could have my RIB information correct? How do I pay for the card?
Yes it’s true anyone could have your RIB but only you can really use it. It’s tied to your name and account and any charges that come through for it can be disputed by you if it’s not correct. You can’t just charge someone’s RIB. Just like you can’t just charge someone’s credit card. You have to have an entity that collects the payment. In this case UGC charges you using your RIB, not your debit card.
Thanks so much for all the super helpful info! The one thing I can’t seem to find (not yet at least) is what to do if your prefecture appointment is AFTER your visa expires AND you have to travel back to US before the expiration date. (My return flight to France is booked for about a week after it expires) Will French airport customs officials let me back into France with an expired visa and some kind of confirmation of prefecture appointment date? My lawyer doesn’t think this will be an issue but I keep reading it’s a risk to even travel with recipisse and expired visa. Would love your thoughts. Thanks!
Thanks! The recipisse is what you get at the end of the prefecture appointment confirming your carte de séjour is being processed, correct? What about before the prefecture appointment – do they give you anything besides an email or doc stating when the appointment is scheduled? Just want to make sure I’ve got the terminology correct .. thanks again!
I have been resident in France for many years. And a client of the société générale for many years. Recently they sent me a form asking me to indicate if I am a US Person (of course, they had never asked this before as I’ve been with them for so long). I replied honestly that I have US citizenship. Then I got a call stating that they cannot maintain *savings* accounts for US persons. Within an hour they had simply closed my accounts!! I’m SHOCKED. I don’t have any investment accounts or anything like that, just basic savings accounts. I never expected this from a major bank like the Société générale. Has this happened to anyone else? Where do I go now??
Hi Stephen, I will be moving to France in a year with my husband (who’s a French citizen), and I was wondering if those that are married to French citizens are having problems too. We’re currently living in Korea, and here we haven’t had any problems with the FATCA, I don’t know the reason, but I suspect that it’s because Korea is scared to not comply with the US, maybe because of North Korea, and they don’t want the US presence to leave, I don’t know, it’s just a thought. But I’ll have to send money to the States before moving to France because we’re closing our Korean accounts when we leave. Does anyone know of the best bank in France that is ok with wire transfers with US banks? My husband has his French accounts with Caisse d’Epargne, and we already know they won’t deal with me, in fact he can’t really even transfer his money here in Korea to that account, they won’t deal with that either. I will tell him about about Transferwise because he’s been trying to figure how to get his money here to France. I’ve already realised that maybe everything like mortgage and stuff will need to be in my husband’s name until I can get French citizenship. Are things really this bad? I never really heard about the FATCA until I started looking into what we need to do for the move, because there is no presence of it here in Korea, at least at the basic level, maybe there’s a problem when it comes to loans and stuff (thought they do require a Korean citizen to co-sign anyways for that stuff).
For the moment Transferwise will be your best bet until you and your husband can visit banks here. Because he’s a citizen you definitely have more opportunities in banking.
I disagree that being married to a French citizen will ensure more plentiful banking options. If a bank doesn’t want to do business with Americans (or indeed anyone who can be considered a US taxpayer, such as green card holders), they simply won’t, regardless of the spouse’s nationality.
Dave you misunderstand. It’s not a question of the marriage solely, but the visas which she can easily apply for, visas which then make the argument that yes, you are entitled to a bank account. I’m a US citizen, married to no one, with two French bank accounts. I got them because of my visas.
We looked into Transfer wise, and while they will transfer from France to Korea, they don’t have the option to transfer from Korea to France. We looked at a lot of other online transfer sites, and we couldn’t find one that would do Korea to France, just France to Korea. The only think we saw that might work is Western Union. My bank here in Korea I can do Western Union transfers online. And Banque Postale has Western Union. It’s not ideal that it’s for cash pickup and my bank here in Korea only let’s me do $3000 USD at a time. 🙁
I’ll have a family/spouse visa when we go. This has nothing to do with banking, but I will say that France made it really tough for us to get married, tons of paperwork, because they do their immigration vetting before getting married, and it cost me a lot of money to get all the paperwork done (I don’t recommend getting married to a French person outside of France or even outside of your home country, we did it all here in Korea, hahaha) and it took almost 7 months from start to finish. But the embassy here did say that after this getting the visa is super easy, like a week or 2 week process. I doubt the banks will care about how I got into France, just that I file US taxes, but I’m hoping that particular visa and our livre de famille will help a bit.
Thank you for this — and Oh, my goodness, Adrian was a good friend of my father and step-mother — she assisted them with their annual stays in Paris — and went on to become a dear friend. My father has since deceased and my step-mother certainly misses Paris. I’ve only had the pleasure of meeting Adrian once, but I’m delighted to know that she continues to do well. I’ll definitely check out her latest newsletter. As for me, I just returned from a glorious week in Brittany… dreaming of the day I will be able to spend extensive time in France… 🙂
Thanks for this list. I already read three of these regularly and I will start with the others. If you are a fan of the development of Paris from around 1850 to the 1980’s or so, you might want to look at the FaceBook page of John d’Orbigny Immobilier. Every Sunday he (and I think this is a fictitious name) publishes numerous photos and commentary on a historical event, a neighborhood, a social issue, etc., in Paris during that time. The photos are fascinating, the commentary quite clever.
I could not agree more. The John d’Orbigny page is fascinating, entertaining, and well-researched. (I keep hoping to spy photos of my Parisian relatives…!)
I was wondering if you could assist me with the following situation. I went to the prefecture today for my appointment for my carte de sejour as my visa expires at the end of October. However, my husband (French) only has a passport and not carte identity and they require that. So the process will take longer to obtain an ID and thereafter, my new rdv might be after the expiration of my current visa. According to the prefecture, this is legal. Please advice
Hi Stephen,
Looks like I am doing the same thing you did 4+ years ago, searching websides for details about various visas etc. And here I see your block. Really great blog!!!
Did you consider apply for Talent Passport (New Enterprise)? What’s the difference vs Profession Liberale Visa?
I haven’t heard anything about PL being removed/ended. You are right, Passeport Talent is now renewable, but I don’t know too much about it, unfortunately.
Hi Stephen et al, those are interesting subtexts from those with dual citizenship! We’re in our sixth year here, happily banked in a heavily expat (though not many US persons) part of Ile-de-France, but trying to buy an appart — and it’s gone sideways, to say the least. BNP turned us down, then Société Générale, BRED Banque Pop is making discouraging sounds, all citing expenses related to SEC / FATCA, the hardship of managing a US person (W9 or not). And we’re on long-term work visas (cartes bleue), plus only asking for a loan on about 50% of the apartment.
This was utterly unexpected as we’d waltzed into Sweden just after those laws were signed (2010), financed a car, bought an apartment, and started a family – quite a shock!
Meanwhile I’ll accelerate our naturalization applications a bit, it’s encouraging that some banks may ignore the FATCA hassles for dual-nats.
I’m confused, your title says “American in Paris” yet you start off by saying you were born in Singapore. I’m guessing you became an American citizen? In this context I would presume your story was about “hey I’m this American who grew up with no culture or specific nationality to relate to, I’m just a mutt with unknown or vague ideas of what I am and now I’m in this foreign country” type of American. I feel as a zero-to-first generation immigrant you have somewhat of a culture from your native country and therefore you can relate to the French. most true Americans have no clue and are very ignorant about things like that. I am both. my fathers side has been in America since 1631, yes over 400 yrs. his side has no culture or traditions and its pretty sad. on my mothers side, she is from Germany, I grew up visiting there every year and in America we would still talk/practice some German traditions and speak both languages. so when I meet people from other countries I connect more with them. I look forward to hearing more bout your experiences. as I was reading I found an error on your page:
the first treaty ever signed by the US government was with the France of Louis XVI << this should say King Louis XVI of France. Leaving out King is very disrespectful and also you cannot be a France of Louis to begin with. LOL.
Janet – my birthplace was Singapore and I lived there until I was 9 years old. I have always had US citizenship from birth, by virtue of an American father. Given that I lived for 25 years in America, going through most of my schooling, building and selling businesses and property, I can say unequivocally that I am an American. I renounced Singaporean citizenship many years ago. They do not tolerate dual nationalities.
I am not a mutt with no idea of where he comes from. On my father’s side I have traced parts of our family line back to the Isle of Wight in the 1500s. On my mother’s side we only go back a few generations as Chinese do not keep records in the way that Europeans, vivified by Christianity’s rhythms of births, marriages, and deaths, did and does. I make my home in France, a place I have chosen for myself, in between the two worlds of my birth – Singapore, my birthplace and home to much of my ethnically Chinese side, and the US, place of my upbringing and maturity, and home to my mother and sisters.
I’ll make the correction to the remark about the King. I’m a royalist so any omission referring to His Majesty is accidental, not intentional, on my part.
I have been to the préfecture in the Seine et Marne (Melun)4 times already and received 4 recipisses. I feel as if they’re throwing my file in the trash immediately after I leave.(sigh) I don’t understand this as I am a Chevalier of the French government, a fiscal resident of France, a home- owner; I’ve paid taxes here for over 30 years, I am a famous opera singer, Grammy winner, etc…but they seem to not care. Suggestions?
Super helpful blog. Thanks for doing this. I can vouch for a lot of what you’re saying as I currently have the Profession Liberale visa and just got approved for the Carte de Sejour. I’ve been in France for a year now and I’m also newly PACS’d with my partner. I came across info regarding the Carte de Sejour “Vie Privéee et Familiale”. Do you have any experience with transferring onto this Carte de Sejour (challenges and/or differences with the Profession Liberale one?).
Depending on where you live, the strike will affect you differently,
Living at the Musee Galleria, I have had no transport on Saturday for one year. I am a woman, who does not ride trottinettes, and in fact hate them, they have made Paris completely unsafe from arrogant people and tourists who ride them illegally on the side walk. Often with two people on one. Also illegal. There is no enforcement of these laws and it is not safe to walk . People drink and also ride them. You young people think these chinese inventions are great, while in reality they are ruining city life for residents. Here and many cities. They are HATED. By residents.
The strikes have made life a pain in the derrière for everyday people who need to travel to and from work with no metro walking long distances by foot to work and back in cold and rain. Its No picnic. When the buses run there are 100 people crammed in, and people are no longer polite. Its not an option for me.
Yes, I agree that a reform is needed. But, its not easy with the strike, and I might add with the strikes for the second Christmas in a row, mom and pop shops are decimated with loss of buisness. Paris’ fabric is completely changed and not for the better.
Respectfully, you are speaking for yourself as a Paris resident. There are many other residents, like myself, who do not HATE the trottinettes but rather LOVE them and many of the riders now ride on the street. Often they ride on the sidewalk when they run into cobbled streets.
If you want to blame anyone for the strikes, blame the CGT. They are the ones who led it. Thankfully, they lost and have started to realize how out of touch they are with people who live here.
I have been in France for 4 years. I didn’t know that I had a time limit on exchanging my license. Is it possible for the government to still exchange my license even after the 1 year period? Would it be worth it to try in any case? I could use your help. Thank you.
Please I have a question. I only succeeded in getting an appointment at the prefecture for the first request of a titre de sejours after the expiration date of my visa.what can I do ? (visa expires on the 20th of March, appointment on the 23rd of March)
hi stephen,
wow, i am really impressed how you got your visa. my french is really really bad so i am not up to doing that yet.
my question is i want to buy an apartment and so need to transfer a big amount of money(it’s my money) to buy it, do you know if i need to pay french taxes on it, like VAT or something? i’ve been trying to search on the net and have found nothing about it. I thought i saw something where i don’t have to be taxed as long as the i am buyiing it for myself. thanks a lot.
You don’t need to pay VAT to transfer money here but you also don’t need to transfer money to buy the house. That is to say, if you want to close the transaction you can wire the money from a foreign account. You don’t have to have a French bank account to do a French real estate transaction.
Are you fluent in French now? How long did it take before you were comfortable enough to speak French (more/less fluently)? I really want to relocate and seek citizenship but my French is utterly pitiful even though I’ve taken several years of French language classes in the USA. Sad.
I am comfortable and conversational in French now, but true fluency in any language takes 15-20 years. Fluency takes more than just knowing how to translate. It’s about cultural references and history that you normally have an entire childhood to assimilate. The key is patience. As for your challenges in the US, it’s always going to be harder to speak in a non immersive environment. Spend a week here and you’ll watch your progress skyrocket.
I have been on a cdj visiteur for the past 2 years and I am moving into my 3rd year . I can get a 10 year card after 5 years and apply for citizenship immediately afterwards right?
Not at all Ariya. You need 5 years of paying taxes as one of the conditions of applying for citizenship. Visitor status is not a citizenship path. It’s just a resident path. You can get a ten year card, sure, but you can’t apply for citizenship without paying taxes here, which means you need to change your visa status to one where you pay taxes.
I own an apartment and apart from tax fonciere and d’habitation . And I am planning on declaring my taxes in France from this year onwards. So, despite the fact that I can’t work here , I am planning on visiting a fiscalist who can help me declare my tax forms so I have proof of that. I am residing in Nice . As you know in Nice , the conditions are not as strict as Paris. They accept 3 years of tax payment as well . By paying taxes, you are referring to income tax only right?The declaration of tax forms of the last 3 years prior to citizenship application wouldn’t suffice?
Thanks for your blog in advance
You are required to file taxes regardless of whether you plan to apply for citizenship. I repeat, visitor status is not a path to citizenship, otherwise I would not have gone through the trouble to change visas. Visitor status is one of the easiest to get and maintain.
So you mean even by possessing a permanent residence and filling out the CID forms , they will reject your file because your title was labelled as “ visiteur”? Is there any other way of paying taxes whilst possessing this status? Subletting your apartment or …? Because both My mother and my sister and I possess this status and I don’t think it would be plausible to change the status of the three of us together, right? There has to be a way around this ! I don’t know how I can propose a business plan to persuade the prefecture to grant us profession liberale .
Ariya – I will say this for the third time: Visitor status is not a path to citizenship.
So just to be clear , after getting your resident card and filling out CIR forms and filing for citizenship, they will reject your file based on not having had an income in France and therefore no income taxes to be paid right?
Stephen, I understand that there is an exception here if you enter France as an already retired person on a CDS temporaire (visitor) and then renew the CDS at the Prefect in one year installments for 4 additional years, the person can then qualify for the 10-year residency and is also eligible for naturalization path to French citizenship.
As a US citizen with retirement income sourced exclusively from the US (pension, SS, 401s) you file for and pay US income taxes but under the US-France tax treaty you are generally exempt from paying French income tax to avoid double-taxation on your US-based retirement income. However, you still need to fill out the necessary French tax paperwork to declare your US-based retirement income and claim the exemption.
Interesting! Do they have any case studies of people who have successfully done it?
David – the assertion is made in this article about retirees getting citizenship, but I simply don’t see any proof of that in the article. I’m not saying it’s not possible; I’ve just not met a single retiree in France who’s done that, and I’ve met dozens. Many of them don’t even have a ten year card, because they can’t pass the A2 language exam necessary to gain that card.
Beautiful article, its comforting to know that we are all in this together even though I live thousands of miles away in an island. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for writing such a wonderful article on life in Paris right now. I especially like the last paragraph as I have been reflecting on my life and feeling thankful knowing sadly there are others in much more dire circumstances. Take care.
Thanks so much for your post. One question I have is, do you happen to know if it is at all possible to apply for this visa from france? I’m currently here on a travailleur temporaire visa and I’d like to apply for the profession liberale without having to go back to the US. Plus with the Corona virus who knows if the borders will even be open. Thanks in advance!
Thank you for your blog and replies to questions!
I’m also in a similar situation as Sheila. I’m in France on a Étudiant-Stagiaire VLS-TS for 6 months, which I successfully extended for another 3-months (with a récépissé), following the covid situation.
I want to apply either for a Passeport Talent – création d’entreprise or the Profession Liberale visa.
Would you know if in my case, I would have to return to the US to file for the new visa?
No; if you are here on a valid visa you can switch and apply from here. You only have to go back to your home country when you have a non renewable status or never obtained a visa in the first place.
At this point only performing ON STAGE artists or visual artists selling their creations fit in the passeport talent status. Youtuber does not fit into this category.
So if you enter as a tourist, you would have to leave and come back? Is there a way to do this from within France? Or another business scheme for self-employed (even if it means starting a business on paper) to do this from within Europe? Thank you! I really want to live in France, make enough income independently, know the language and culture, and lived there for a few months last year (on my visa waiver). U.S. citizen.
In order to apply from France you must have status here. As a tourist you have no status. I recently helped an American apply from Germany, but he had legal residence there, hence he could. I also helped an American apply from Japan, because she had legal residence there. Unless you have some kind of status here, you can’t apply from here.
The message
So if you enter as a tourist, you would have to leave and come back? Is there a way to do this from within France? Or another business scheme for self-employed (even if it means starting a business on paper) to do this from within Europe? Thank you! I really want to live in France, make enough income independently, know the language and culture, and lived there for a few months last year (on my visa waiver). U.S. citizen.
MY ANSWER
1 – tourist = no immigration status = 90 day limit per 183 days (last 6 months)
2 – visiteur = immigration status that allows a stay in France renewed every year but zero right to work. Starts by asking for a long stay visa bearing this name
3 – profession libérale = immigration status grounded on the creation and running a French consulting business minimum annual sales 23,000€, Starts by asking for a long stay visa bearing this name
BTW all immigration statuses are reviewed by the prefecture and it feels like you are being reviewed by the French police.
I have read that if you are a student and you successfully complete your studies and receive a degree, you may then apply to live/work in France without returning to USA.
Yes, but you must get a job at a certain income level within a certain amount of time, or that visa expires. It is not open-ended.
It also provides a shortened path to citizenship for the successful.
Allow me to widen the answer.
1 – within a few limitations once you have a French immigration status that can be renewed, you can change it for one that corresponds to your personal and/or professional life at the time. This means asking for a carte de séjour with a different name on it.
2 – there are many and I mean A LOT of different statuses to choose from on a professional ground and ’employee’ is rarely the most secured or the easiest all things considered. There has been a radical change for the “salarié” procedure where now the employer starts the process and not the foreigner anymore.
3 – self-employed is divided in France in 3 categories (profession libérale, artisan & commerçant) and it is critical to very clearly identify what you are doing professionally in order to register the business correctly. Many foreigners who do it without proper counsel, do it wrongly and end up in some sort of trouble sooner or later.
4 – the normal procedure toward naturalisation is carte de séjour then carte de résident then naturalisation. Therefore a realistic timeframe discloser to 7 years. It is rarely shorter even though reading the legal provisions one can think it can be done after 2 years.
5 – the corporation set-up in France is also very different. Being a partner alone does grant any immigration right and for the same reason can be done without any immigration status.
Thanks for this new post.
Recently my partner and I fired SG as well. They also took a monthly fee from both our banking accounts, which were nothing special at all and we had to check our balance ourselves using their not-exceptional phone app. When we enquired about a loan, they took their own sweet time to get back to us – they were so slow that we began to fear that we may lose our deposit if we don’t finalise our choice of bank for a loan soon.
We opened a backup account with Boursorama late last year and it was fuss free and without a monthly fee. Granted they don’t have face to face customer service agents (it’s part of their business model I suppose) and à few times we had to spend 20 minutes on hold over the phone to get someone to talk to us. But in the end, we never truly benefitted from having a relationship manager with SG either! 😏
I agree.. don’t hesitate to fire a lousy bank. There are plenty of fishes in this ocean indeed.
I am so proud of you, I think you have to much patience but you are a very fare person. My daughter had an account in France which she recently closed and I also found that they were taking out to much charges. I love to read your blog, they are so insightful. Keep up the good work and stay safe. God bless.
Sincerely
Neal
Beautifully written, this reminds of when I was passing through a metro station in France in 2018 I think it was Citi and was I charged €75 ×4 for not having a picture on my metro card the metropolice. I came back home to my country (Trinidad) and wrote all the relevant authorities in France and was eventually refunded but that’s an abridged version of a long story. I think you should still persue your refund of €175 as a matter of principle. Even if you have to write the CEO of Groupama. I would love to hear your story with the airlines and hotels believe me I have many as well, from hurricanes to a closed apt in London and most recently I was on route to China in England when BA cancelled my flight and had to return home. Keep writing, do you write for a living. Keep up the good work.
Hello Stephen!
Hope you are well, I had a question about the renewal of this visa, do we need to provide a certificate of proficiency in french language at the time of renewal? I heard somewhere they ask for a A2 level certificate at the time of renewal? Is that true?
Thank you so much!
Bonne journee!
Dear Stephen,
What a great blog! For folks who are a bit anxious about intepreting government rules and regulations on immigration, blogs like yours are super well received.
I currently have a recherches des emplois visa after finishing two years at uni (grand ecole, if it matters). I have many questions about the types of work you can do with a profession liberale visa, since I will unlikely get a CDI or CDD due to my work.I am effectively a consultant for large IOs, and would ideally like to set myself up as a consultant with micro-entrepreneur status and the accompanying visa. My main question is whether the income generated from clients has to come from France, or if they can be international? Thoughts?
France isn’t inwardly oriented. They don’t expect all your business to be domestic. But if you start a French business you’re going to have to house that income in France. They can live wherever they want. Your income from them has to live in France 😉
Thanks for this informative article! Do you have to show a history of success as a freelancer? If you find a US company that will take you on as a freelancer, will that strengthen your dossier or are they more interested in having you just work as a freelancer in France? Thanks!
You can take clients from anywhere in the world. The point is whether you can make a good case to the French that you can build a sustainable income as a freelancer. Previous history is helpful, but not required!
I am amazed to see through your eyes ie. writing how easy things are over in France hardly any bureaucracy if you are an organize computer savvy person as you are. In my country which is third world it’s not that easy. Although I was able to file taxes online but that has been so for the past 5 years or so. We need to copy from you and impliment some of those systems so that we can survive in this new normal covid19 world. I as usual always enjoy your stories. When I see your emails I drop everything and read. You seem to be an extremely organize individual.Thank you and keep on writing.
Thanks for the astute observation. Indeed as a foreigner living in France, the sheer lack of respect towards rules and the authorities exhibited by every (other) French person seems inspiring at first, but only becomes downright unnerving. Surely the modus operandi of your regular French person includes the idea that “rules are meant to be broken”, but it didn’t occur to them that rules are also there for a reason.
In this particular case of the pandemic，a very good reason indeed!
Even before the confinement has been lifted, I have observed lawn parties thrown on grass patches within the boundaries of some apartment complexes, in shady corners far away from roads and of course in the private yards of houses. From my apartment balcony I see this family who comes and goes so often they should be bankrupt by now if they were fined everytime they went away on their little unsanctioned trips. (They give themselves away since their dogs wake up the entire neighborhood every time they come home.) And no, I don’t think anyone in my building has reported them yet even though it has become pretty obvious what they have been doing! They also get visitors that drop by, hang out for a few hours, then go away. And this is a classic example of some of the million offenders that you mentioned in your article.
Maybe we should trial them for war crimes when this is all over out of respect for those who were/would be sacrificed in this war. Or you know what, let’s embrace “la vie en France” for what it is. Santé! 😏
Thank you for your fantastic and very helpful articles. You help to relieve some anxiety!
I have the PL visa too. I have validated my visa (done online now) and registered with URSAAF. Are there any other procedures to follow upon arrival in France? Are we eligible for the carte vitale in the first year?
Question: I have an Illinois driver’s license. I know I can swap it for a French one. I own property near Limoges. Feb. 14th of 2018 I closed on the house. I still work with a 3 month visa. Back and forth I go to Chicago. Since I haven’t been ‘living’ here (technically) for one year straight, does my collective time which now adds up to 15months (over a period of two years) mean that I’m over the 1-yr. status of being here? I don’t have a carte de séjour. I do have a meeting Aug. 18th at the préfecture hopeful to get a long stay or resident stay. I do own a car.
The restriction is to those who have been resident here. Your stats on a tourist visa do not count. You should only refer to the date of your long term stay visa if and when you get that.
Again beautifully written it’s like you have the ability to read one thoughts. I will never ever forget this covid 19 lockdown it will forever be imprinted on my mind. You see my wife of 33 years who was terrible afraid of covid died of a heart attack on the 26 th May at around 4:30 am. I am heartbroken because the love of my life who was planning to retire in 2 years for the first time came to terms with staying home with me. Actually while she was working at home for the past 2 months we became closer. I having taken a separation package about 6 years ago thought to myself well only 2 more years and with this covid we will try our best and be cautious. She left me with 2 daughters I have to be strong for them, the younger who did cheat compressions before the paramedics arrived feels that she could have done a better job and save her Mom. I feel guilty that I did not recognize that her complaints of acid reflux the night before was more serious. I don ‘t know if we will ever be ok again but I do know my daughters would eventually move on. I think I will be stuck in limbo and die a lonely old man. 2020 started of so beautiful for us my daughter graduated in The University of Sussex and while my elder daughter teaches English in China she joined us in Brighton and we all enjoyed that graduation so much as a family. We stayed for a week in Brighton and then moved to Greenwich and stayed there for another week. Then all hell broke loose and China was on a lockdown and her mother insisted that she return home and she obliged. Thank god she did otherwise I don’t know what would have happened if she was in China since our borders continued to be closed. God can you restart 2020. It’s like I am living a nightmare.
This was such a refreshing balanced read. France’s way of life always intrigued me and I wondered how they managed to carve out these benefits but also deal with a jeopardized business climate. It’s always great to hear the other side. Thank you.
What happens if my appointment for renewal of carte de séjour is 5 months before the current card’s expiry date ? Will they kick me out at the appointment for going in too early ? And even if they process my application, will they still issue me the récépissé if my current card still has like 5 months of validity? Thanks!!
Ps. The reason I got an early appointment is that it’s super difficult to get an appointment in my area, sometimes people take months to get 1, so I started checking for appointments 6 months before my card’s expiry and was super lucky to get an appointment the following month, but then it also means it’s 5 months before cards expiry , a bit too early . But if I cancel this appointment I’m not sure when I’ll be able to get 1 again…
Jess there is nothing to stop you from renewing early. It just means you effectively pay more, since you are going to give them more money 5 months sooner than you are required to.
Excellent post as always, Stephen! Thank you for sharing your experience today. So fascinating to hear all that transpired in what used to be a somewhat easy journey to/from the USA.
Stephen,
Thank you for a highly useful posting on a hard-to-find-guidance-on subject. I noted your comment in italics about having to have renewed the visitor visa at least once before being able to apply for the PL visa. I am up for my first renewal of a long stay visitor’s visa and had hoped to ask for a modification to my visa during the renewal process so that I could begin to work as a freelancer in France as soon as possible. By any chance, do you know if the rule of needing to have renewed the visitor visa at least once has changed? (My fingers are crossed.) And if it hasn’t, do you know I can apply for the PL any time after I’ve renewed my long stay visitors visa? Or would I have to wait out an entire additional year, until the renewed visitor visa expires? Thanks in advance for any guidance you can give on this complex subject.
No business lease necessary, unless it’s an integral part of your business. This visa classification is most often used by freelancers, who don’t have an office. Also keep in mind if you’re going to start a business that does north of 100k annually in revenue, this visa classification won’t work for you.
Wow. What do you mean? What happens to one (in theory) if one to exceed 100’000€ annual? There is so little to no information about profession liberale that this is the first hear about such criteria.
There isn’t going to be a giant red light that goes off the moment you hit 100,000. The problem will occur later, with two different agencies.
The tax office will reject your claim to profession liberale status, and demand that you incorporate into some form of company to house this income.
The rejection of your profession liberale status will mean you cannot present tax returns in that status at your next renewal with the immigration authorities, which will lead to the non-renewal of your visa.
The effect of crossing this financial barrier is delayed, but deadly for those who wish to stay on in France under this regime.
Once again I am bringing a different angle here:
1 – 100,000€ annual sales puts you in the “REEL simplifié” income tax status where one must have full accounting and therefore itemise expenses. So it is possible that 30,000€ is spent during the 1st year considering the size of the billing.
2 – Should it be the case then asking for the immigration status “PASSEPORT TALENT Nº4 – créateur d’entreprise” would be a much better deal than the “profession libérale” one as it could be a 4 year carte de séjour.
3 – Stated differently and broadening my comment. Profession libérale is 1st and foremost a legal status as a self-employed professional. Then and only then there is a choice between 3 different fiscal statuses for the related BNC (the name of the income tax of profession libérale)
– MICRO (often linked to the auto-entrepreneur status)
– réel simplifié which is standard by law between 74,000€ and 500,000€ in annual sales
– réel normal above that.
So it is possible to register both with the prefecture and with the tax office right away with the right status.
Choosing it wisely can be complicated as many elements go in the decision making process.
I just read in David Hampshire‘s Living and Working in France that in the case of reciprocal states exchanging your license for a French one, you still have to take the written test. That you were only exempt from the driving test. Is this correct?
No need to take a test written or otherwise. It just takes a long time to get the paperwork through the French system.
Patience is a virtue Due to Covid it took over a year. I switched a Florida one . Send a copy of a property tax bill/rental agreement to show prior US residence as well as something that shows you have permanent residency
in France and the date of when you first did that. I went to the Mairie and asked for a certificate stating I my primary residence and domicile in the town I live in.
Hello Stephen,
Great information! Thank you for the time and energy you’ve put into it.
I’m an American currently living in Germany considering a move to France to start my own business as an artist/designer. My questions are – Do you know if work as an artist (creating textile, ceramic, metal, and photography based works) would also be classified under the PL visa scheme? It seems that it would for the manufacturing or service categories, but also isn’t very clear. Also, in terms of the Cover Letter for a PL application, would I then apply in German since I reside there now (or English due to my nationality)?
Lastly, I’ve been working as an English teacher in Germany the last seven years- would such work experience (despite two degrees in design) hinder the acceptance of my visa application?
Your thoughts/experience would be much appreciated for answering these! Thank you in advance.
All the best,
Lindsay
Several things need to be said:
under French law there are only 3 types of artists:
selling copyrights – authors, translators of books, illustrators of books, artistic photographers,
selling art – painters, sculptors, visual artists
performing artists – anyone who is on stage performing.
Therefore this is what you describe creating textile, ceramic, metal, and photography based works is defined as ‘CRAFTS’ and fall in the category of ‘artisan’ and never profession libérale, which basic definition is that NOTHING is sold not a thing! It is a much more complex immigration status to obtain as the financing to launch this activity in France is significant (at least as the French administration sees it). Indeed you need a shop to perform your crafts and therefore renting it as it is illegal to do it in your home.
Being an independent under French law means that you need to fit in one of these 3 categories -profession libérale -artisan -commerçant (which is being a merchant)
following a 17th century logic (this legislation comes from Louis 14th!) if one activity is qualified as a merchant it supersedes everything else. If one activity is qualified as craft, it supersedes all the profession libérale activities. This means that you can be aside from your craft – teacher, coach, adviser, fashion creator, selling drawings and so on, it never changes the fact that there is the craft in your activity.
Ideally, your application should be in French. German would be acceptable. I have no idea about submitting it in English.
The bottom line in my view – you need to rethink everything about your project to move to France, making sure you submit according to the right provisions of French law, learning a lot about what the “artisan” status.
Golly. You know your stuff! What about “performing artist aka online performer aka youtuber?” Would I fall under this category?
I’ve prepared my dossier for Germany but I’m looking to France as a backup plan.
My qualifications are in engineering incl. a degree from a university in france. However they are totally irrelevant to my work at the moment.
Thanks for your help and the great article x
Hi Stephen! Really amazing information here, thank you so much for your generous posts. Clear, concise and easy to follow, for the most part.
Question please, I am hoping to move to France by next year. I have an existing small business as a global coach (which I plan on bringing with me) but also want to study the language full time And enroll in a school. So this may be obvious, but would I shoot for the “Profession Liberale” visa? Even if the income could be quite low? (It is a changing business so I don’t really know)
As if I were to try for a student visa I am not able to work…? Is my understanding.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanking you in advance and I look forward to reading more!
Alicia actually a student visa allows you to work up to 20 hours a week.
As long as the business can bring in at least 15-20k a year you’ll successfully renew. If you don’t think you can get it up to that in time, why not just get a student visa and keep your coaching business as a US based entity?
XXXXXX charges $4,900 to do everything for you. $1,800 if you do it with the videos and materials XXXXX provides.
But a French lawyer told me that you never, ever tell them, anyone, you’re working, never. Not the consulate, not the prefecture, not a landlord. No one.
So I’m unclear how you can show the consulate/prefecture your remote income on a visiteur and get away with it.
Please clarify.
Also, can you clarify what documents exactly you should show a prospective French landlord? What can’t they ask for? What should you never show them?
I don’t know what else to tell you other than I have worked with clients who have shown as their proof of income a remote job and the accompanying pay stubs. I don’t doubt your lawyer is thinking “letter of the law,” but my experience tells me he’s wrong, at least on the ground level that I experience.
Hi! I’m a resident of France & US but currently living in the US for the last year. Planning to go back to France for a few months – do you think I could bring a VA license and make it work for an échange ?
If you have US licence and you go back to France just for a few months if you do get pulled over and have US Passport. Don’t sweat it. Just speak english act like a tourist. The cop will not bother
Great advice Stephen, thank you! Only thing is I can’t be a student forever…
So you are saying that if the business can bring in 15-20k, annually on consistent basis, should be no problem with applying for PL visa? (Self employed). And is it still considered a US based business, registered in the US?
I need both! Let’s say I apply as student for over 6 months to a year. Working 20 hours a week…am I able to apply for a PL visa while still in France After that time period? Or will I need to return to the US to apply since it’s a different visa..? ( side bar, have alternative income not related to my coaching business does not count? Or could help? Showing sufficient funds??)
Your US based business has nothing to do with the French. They have no power to stop you from earning money in other parts of the world, legally or morally.
The question for Profession Liberale is regarding a FRENCH business. You will have to make 15-20k (in euros) per year in order to keep a Profession Liberale visa.
You can change status while a student to different visa classifications, including Profession Liberale.
As far as the “alternative income” – the French don’t care how you have access to funds to sustain yourself as your Profession Liberale business gets off the ground, just that you have funds. I sent you an email on this.
Back pocket for an iPhone is a terrible idea (had mine stolen that way). I understand the bag buffer, but I think you’re going to be writing this story again shortly if you keep it up!
Hi Stephen!
I’m interested in becoming a freelance English teacher in France and not sure what visa to apply for since I would technically be self employed. I’m currently teaching (and a resident) in Germany and was also wondering if it’s even possible to apply for a visa from here.
Thank you!
I had a German visa and lived between Germany and Paris when I launched my skincare brand. Our audience has always been primarily French. I no longer have that German visa but continue to do business in France back and forth from the US. I am now looking to just be full time in France and get a Talent Passport visa to start a business (we are rather tiny but big promising).
Thanks to lots of press, our mission in the wellness space, both the brand and myself have a bit of a name/following.
I already have an apartment lease in Paris I’ve held for years, lots of press (NY Times, i_D mag to name a few), I have just a little over 30k euro in my account, and every year Ive had at least one partnership contract that increases in monetary value (2016 was 15k this year is 100k, with possibility of redoing the same project next year). The one for this year (technically already done but they don’t have to know that do they? I can write that its extended due to covid delays) and have some friends who have their own businesses/agencies who are willing to write me letters saying we have future collaborations (so that I can show future pending work) , I have an FBI report of no criminal record. Do you think this is enough to get one of these visas?
Do I have to have a masters? Is this enough history that I have been doing lots of committed work over the last few years? My biggest point is that I can bring in even more economically to France if I am able to be there full time vs just flying in. Do you think letters from friends who have businesses promising future work upon my arrival is enough? (I obviously won’t say they are friends)
This article is not about passeport talent, but about profession libérale, and you certainly have a lot going for you in that regard. As for your question regarding the letters of interest, of course, there’s no way for the authorities to know those are also your friends. 😉
There are 10 subcategories for ‘passeport talent’ I see 14 and I can explain if needed. About half of them deal with creating a business in France with different requirements for different situations.
In short ‘profession libérale’ requires a business plan and securing the financing which includes the French clientele.
All the ‘passeport talent’ demands a minimum of money invested, and of compensation coming from the business among other things.
I write quite a lot about both trying everytime showing how different they are.
Thanks Jean. I have looked into these and applied for Passport Talent. They however categorized me as independent worker and did not accept my application as of right now, due to pandemic, they are only doing Passport talent. Based on my needs I thought I qualified for PT under a few categories so I am very confused
When you write this:
“Thanks Jean. I have looked into these and applied for Passport Talent. They however categorized me as independent worker and did not accept my application as of right now, due to pandemic,”
This is wrong. This decision should have nothing to do with the pandemic. It is very likely that your visa request did not fully complied with the Nº5 sub category of passeport talent. One is very different from the other this one demands a lot more in terms of education and financial investment (30,000€ invested the 1st year!)
After many years in Paris (arrived as a student in the 80s), I’ve never been pickpocketed and never used a neck wallet or banana/hip bag. A thin wallet slipped into your front pocket when in the metro is a great idea, or zipped safely in a bag. Or no wallet at all, just your bank card and/or a couple of bills. You’re likely to be robbed again if you feel comfortable with your wallet in your back pocket or loose in a front jacket in crowded places. Bonne chance!
thanks for the very helpful articel but there is something i want me to ask can PL visa buy property in FR? because I don’t get much information about it. and what about my property ownership status if I have a PL visa. thank you
normal French banks only look at income preferably income earned “in France”. Therefore having a successful self-employed business in France makes it easier to get the loan. Also there are brokers who find lenders when most of the money is outside of France.
Last thing as Stehpen said, buying real-estate in France is completely disconnected to any immigration status.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for this info. I agree that one can totally avoid learning French, even when living in France.
I have a question about these levels of proficiency. If I’m told by two sources (AF and native French private tutors) that my level is C1-C2, do I still need to officially prove my level via an exam once I move to Paris next year? Or when I get the 10 year residency card? I’m unclear what happens once I arrive and later on, in terms of language testing.
PS. I intend to continue to work on my French once I’m there and fully immersed. I feel that it can only make life easier( better).
Thanks again!
As I noted, you don’t have to “prove” your competency unless required by some form of bureaucracy. If you arrive here on a PL visa, for example, on your OFII visit you’ll be informally quizzed in French. If they are unsatisfied with your level you get signed up for 100 hours at the mairie. As for the 10 year card, you referenced “after” you get it but as I said, you need to submit the test as part of the process of getting it, and you can’t get a 10 year card until you’ve been here at least 5 years.
Hi Stephen, Just started filling the online VISA form to apply for Prof Lib but Prof Lib is not in any of the options for the two required fields (“Your Plans”, and “Main Reason of stay”) in the online form. I tried two options:
a] If I select Talent Passport – International talents in “Your Plans”, I see “Business Creator/ Talent” as an option in the “Main Reason of stay” field.
b] If I select Business in “Your Plans” field, I see Entrepreneur or Independent Profession in the “Main Reason of stay” field.
I have a California DL and was thinking of exchanging to a Texas DL before my move to France next year in June. Would that work to exchange to a French DL? Thanks
Do you know if I can exchange my driving license during the validity of my first visa visiteur valant titre de sejour? Or only after I get my first titre de sejour?
Ksenia as I said in the article, you can only exchange in your first full year of residence as an immigrant. In my case that would have been before I received my first plastic carte de sejour.
There is a very common misundrstanding made. Residency and carte de séjour. The latter one is just one of MANY French IDs for foreigners living in France. I have in mind 5 of them and there could be more. Therefore proving and therefore having a French immigration residency can be documented many other ways.
There is another very common one. Holding a long stay visa called “VISITEUR” and going through the OFII procedure, makes you an IMMIGRANT, not just an extended tourist.
Therefore you can only exchange your driver license while holding your visa+OFII document, as it is your 1st year of residence in France.
I hope that I have not been too long for what could appear to be a very basic question once people understands and accepts what the words mean!
Hi! Your articles have been the most helpful yet in our research. Thank you so much.
Is this the visa to try for if we have an existing business in the US, and wish to continue that same business in France?
And when they say financial requirements, does that need to be proof of a certain amount of income from the specific business or just money in an account?
You can play it that way if you want, but I wouldn’t make it sound like the businesses are connected. Just indicate you’ve had experience in this before and you want to do it again, but in France.
Financial requirements just mean money you have access to. It could be in a bank account, 401k, stocks, etc. I know this seems counterintuitive, but the French don’t think of business bank account money as “yours.” If you are paying yourself W-2 or 1099 from that business, those stubs would be more helpful.
Hi,
I want just the opposite!
I’m a dual citizen (Fr/US).
I traded my CT driver’s license for a French one 7 years ago, and now, I’m ready to return to the US.
What do I need to get a new American license? Will they just trade it in?
It depends on where you leave in the US and for which company. I am both French and American and worked in both countries living in both Paris and San Diego which is very expensive also (if you want to live by the beach :)).
I made 4x more in SD in salary. I was working for a very large company who did pay 100% of my health insurance PPO (had $0 out of pocket and $0 deductible). I was a privileged one in the US I guess…. In another company I worked for, I was contributing to $50/month for my PPO health insurance which was covering a lot also (few hundreds out of pocket).
True that most workers in the US probably don’t have that chance but I think that overall, even with all the French crazy benefits, and the crazy health insurance in the US one makes more money in the US for an equivalent good paid job. Taxes at the end of the year are better in the US. A lot more can be itemized and the % tax brackets are much larger in the US so you pay less % for a large salary.
Bottom line, high middle class or rich people, go to the US if you can. Middle middle class to lower middle class, stay in France.
For a middle middle class person, you are better off in France.
As a middle-middle class person with children, you are better off in France, because child care is essentially free. Once your kids are older, a lot of that benefit disappears. And then you begin to feel the pinch from taxes + low income.
Do not the mistake that health care is free in France. It is not. It IS however guaranteed, which is a big difference. We calculate that we pay about the same if not more in total health care in France than we did in the US (on a typical employer plan).
Thank you for sharing this, it’s really thrilling to see that there are bloggers who are aware that there is the option to study in France especially since schools in France are 50% cheaper than the US and have joined the bandwagon of encouraging international students by conducting most courses in English such as HEC Paris etc… I mostly see advice and articles about moving as a partner or just as an expat and little about students, which is quite interesting since many red tape issues can be made easier by being a student, no? Not to mention the cheaper cost of education and the opportunity to be there without needing to have a job. Not to say you wont be exclusive to the lack of customer service treatment but if the school offers housing for example, that paperwork is resolved…
So happy that your blogs are also recent. Thank you for sharing frequently. I am a person who just got accepted into an MBA program in France for fall 2021 and I am preparing by reading about what to expect. I am a person who has gone through immigration stuff within the US by also being a citizen of an African country and am hoping for the best and preparing for the worst…I’ve already began collecting my documents to open a bank account in France…However, I hope there will also be more writing about what it’s like being a student as well as a minority in France, which I think will be my biggest obstacle, that I am trying to prepare for in a country that doesn’t have formal affirmative action laws.
Thanks for reading, and I’m glad this article has proved useful! Best of luck to you in your MBA program. Make sure you watch this space in case we publish any articles about the student experience in France!
There appears much discrepancies with VFS Global and the Washington DC embassy with Passeport Talent as this appears the only way to earn a real visa that can be renewable up to 4ans and permits work. VFS says one thing, the Embassy says something different. For example, for all the “flavors” of these talent passeports, many individuals could be working for themselves based on being authors, artists, having a reputation nationally and/or internationally in a specialised field, high level degrees, diplomas, etc….yet it appears that the Embassy wants French contracts, French employment by a French company with French clients, etc..etc..if not, you can apply for a long term visitor visa but not available due to the COVID, yet VFS states just show that you have money, etc.. through forms, documents, etc…and have a French project that helps France then you can apply for the passeport talent.
What happens if you get visa rejected–what then? All that work, selling cars, selling furniture, moving out apartments for a country that appears to not have its’ act together re: visas. If France is serious abt accepting talented folks to improve the community, then perhaps, they need to take these passeport talents seriously and vastly improve their horrendous ‘system’.
Gary – your points are well taken – but given the current disruption and the fact that France has currently removed two much easier options that Talent, namely Visitor and Prof Lib – they are somewhat out of context. So let me answer how I would in any time: visas are not a guarantee in any country. It’s a risk to “get ready” to move when you have no guarantee that you will have permission. As I’ve said here before, you can’t even apply until 90 days before your arrival at the earliest. That means that many of us, myself included, spent 9-10 months preparing as if we were going to move, even though we didn’t have permission. All life decisions are risky. Visas are no different.
I would add to Mr. Heiner’s answer, several things.
1 – There are 10 defined sub-categories, and I 14 in reality. So there are very different by nature divided between employee – self-employed & art&culture. So each of them must be very clearly identified.
2 – France considers even today the employee status to be much better than anything else. So this bias tains the administration position and guidelines.
3 – specifically the Nº10 – internationally famous as it is often called needs 3 things a) a very strong personal&professional project that demands to be in France b) a strong and large base of support in France c) it brings something valuable to France that goes beyond the financial aspect.
4 – therefore asking for French contrats, French events, French projects already secured is of course needed to grant the Nº10 visa.
5 – VFS does a bad job including explaining, the French consulate is very strict in its guidelines and since it issues the visa and not VFS, the applicant should always follow its guidelines.
6 – A French list is to be interpreted, and understood as showing the information requested not just what document is asked for.
Brilliant blog indeed, thanks for all the input Stephen. Quick question to your comment ‘the fact that France has currently removed two much easier options that Talent, namely Visitor and Prof Lib’ – do you mean they are not currently issuing PL or visiteur visas? Am in the midst of doing a PL on the France visa website and it doesn’t say anything about them not being available…? TIA x
This said, the French consulate in DC & therefore the various VFS offices through out the country are closed during most of Feb.
If I understood correctly, COVID pandemic has put enough people out of work such that they needed to suspend their activities until enough people are back to work.
Thank you for the informative post!
I’m in France currently with a 4 year salarie CDS.
From my understanding I could apply for the Profession Liberale while still in the country on this visa, is that right?
Secondly, I would like to start a company with my friend (a French citizen), is this allowed with profession liberale ?
If you are salarie you need to check your contract to find out if you are permitted to start a business or acquire a profession liberale designation. Many of my friends on CDI are explicitly forbidden from starting a business.
On the logistical side, yes, if you are already here on a valid visa, you can apply for a new visa from here.
You don’t need a visa to start a business with a French citizen. You don’t even have to live in France to do that. That’s not an immigration question. Profession Liberale is not a “license to start a business” it is a “small business license.” You don’t get Prof Lib so you can start a company with someone. That’s something else entirely.
Hello,
I have co-citizenship but live mainly in California. We arrived in Paris on Jan. 4th (where we have an apartment), to stay for the spring. I hadn’t been in France for 18 months before that. This morning my rental car was towed (I stupidly parked in a delivery zone overnight) and though I spoke with the police and the tow driver, they refused to give me the car back, because I do not have a French driver’s license. (Hopefully the rental agency can get the car back.). I assume the City Hall is in error, and that because I am within a year, I can drive on my US (California) permit (as the rental agency also thought), but I wonder now if I might be mistaken? Any thoughts or advice would be welcome.
You’re in an odd place. While I think that you might be able to drive within your first year of residency on your California license, having French citizenship puts you into the zone with the French of “you should have known better.” I would gently remind you that if you have French citizenship, you should know the phrase, “I assume the City Hall is in error” has no meaning/relevance here. I would simply be helpful with the rental car agency to get the car back. And get yourself a French license so this can’t happen to you again. As far as I know California isn’t one of the swap states but I suggest you follow my advice in this article: get yourself a license in a state that does have swapping rights and use that one to get yourself a French license.
Fascinating article. I have been very interested in French/Western European lifestyle compared to that of here in the USA. I am curious whether you think the lack of “innovation” is really that big of a drawback. USA has amazing innovation, but has innovation really benefited the country, or just benefit a very very small subsection of the workers, and that too mostly in one or suburbs of one city.
That’s a conversation that I’d love to have if you’re ever in town. My very short answer is yes, it does limit innovation, but that only matters if innovation is your summum bonum.
Concerning VAT, Sales projections are around 33K this year, so should I collect it and if I do not reach it, send it back to the client? I do not want to be in a situation that I have to eat all the VAT I did not charge for an entire year, because I reached my goal. I am confused about not charging VAT however then I will owe it if I go over the threshold.
I would purposely hold your sales below the amount. If you’re going to collect VAT, you might as well be way over, like around 35k or 45k, then just 1k or 2k over. If that means you wait to bill some December work the following January, so be it.
Ha! I am in USA and my family is in eastern France. I routinely Usps small packages and cards to them. “Sometimes” they arrive.
Once a package went from Paris to Vietnam before going BACK to Paris and finally to my family.
This time a package went from USA > Paris > Tokyo > Australia… where it’s now stuck for the past 12 days.
I am a french resident….with no for the extension of my first carte de sejour. I arrived with a American drivers license from a state without reciprocity. Firs time off our immigration attorney says the first year of residency BEGINES the date I picked up my first cate de sejour. Since that took nearly nine months to process that is a bit difference. Is he correct? Hate to find out he is wrong?
I arrived in France in October 2020 with a “Passeport Talent” long stay visa. I received my Carte de Sejour December 30th, 2020. A few questions:
– Does this type of visa require me to get a French driver’s license within one year? (Jean Taquet’s comment above about the visa+OFII document confused me a bit).
– Does my “one year” begin with my arrival in France or the date on my Carte de Sejour?
– I plan on exchanging my CA driver’s license for a DE license this summer and exchanging that for a French license before the end of the year. The date on my new DE license will not show I’ve resided in Delaware for 6 months, but my documents used to obtain the license will. Would that suffice (assuming the prefecture is reasonable)?
The type of visa is irrelevant. Your residency starts the day you arrive in France. If you don’t swap within that first year, you are most probably locked out of swapping.
I’m not a big fan of their pre-prepared dishes, but what made me fall in love with Picard were the flash-frozen ingredients, especially bags of chopped onions (red or white, finely or roughly chopped), minced garlic, chopped tomatoes, frozen organic raspberries and wild blueberries for my smoothies, and — I’m sure this is ecologically questionable — the bags of cubed avocado, frozen in perfect ripeness, for making guacamole. I throw out soooo many fresh avocados that go bad (or are opened too early and inedible), so this saves me the trouble. I still use a lot of fresh ingredients, but it is nice to have those frozen ingredients ready for backup when I’m in the middle of making a dish and realize I’m out of shallots or my leeks went to rot when I wasn’t looking. I wasn’t a Picard fan for a long time, but they’ve won me over. 😉
Let’s just say I may have changed my mind on Picard also…more in a future article. Flattered to have you read a piece of mine, Heather! Thanks for all you do!
I’m slightly confused. If we exchange our California licenses for Texas licenses before we move, do we need to prove residency in Texas for 6 months prior? Will our visa applications need to say Texas as well?
Mallory you’re asking two questions here. Firstly, I don’t know what is required for you to exchange a license in a particular state. Some may have residency requirements, some just require a utility bill.
But more importantly, getting a driver’s license has nothing to do with immigration. You will not be presenting immigration paperwork for the exchange. There’s no assumption by the French government that because you are resident in one state that you must have a driver’s license from that state as well. And remember, when you are here they really don’t care, as you’re now a French resident trying to swap out a foreign license for a French one. Again, this is a separate process and has nothing to do with your immigration application.
My son tried to exchange his Illinois license but it was refused due to residency requirements. He returned from the USA in June and started the process again. He just received a sms saying it was definitely refused in 2019. Does this mean they will not consider a new application? Can we buy time with a ‘recour’. Can he still drive for one year after his arrival in France
Please help he’s working and can’t get to work without a car
We have a package stuck in Paris since April 12. No tracking communication since then. The final destination is in the south of France. Last year a package went to Paris, then to Ethiopia, back to Paris then to India and finally back to France. Two months ago a package was sitting in Chicago for 10 days before finally getting to France.
My BNP adviser just asked the past 6 months of my American bank statements. She said it was to see if I was not doing money laundering!!! She said the French counterterrorism was asking BNP to look at cash deposits. Is this legal? Do I have to show my past 6 months bank statements?
Thanks
I don’t know if it’s “legal” as I’m not a lawyer but it is pretty standard practice. My very first counselor at Société Générale told me she might ask for them but she never did and none of my BNP counselors have. It may just be a random search.
Hi! Just to bounce off the tax issue with the long-stay tourist visa. I understand you are supposed to declare taxes even without french income, but are you also supposed to declare in France any income you earn in the States? With the visa we are allowed to work, just not for a French company, but if you have a remote work situation with a US company or work freelance for US publications, etc. do you need to declare that income to France in your taxes?
Roxy if you “earn income in France” you’ll violate the terms of your visitor visa. The remote work income should be construed as US income. There is both moral and legal precedent to do so. Don’t make your life more complicated and jeopardize your visa.
Hi,
I am so confused. If 100% of my income is through my US company while I work remotely in France, do I need to file taxes? If so, do I need to pay taxes, too, even though I have paid taxes on my salary in the US already?
Is there anything my employer needs to do? The more I read, the more I cannot decide what to do or how to start.
You have to file taxes in France if you are a fiscal resident of France, whether you make any money there or not. Whether you work remotely or not. America has the same rule. I think you have to be below a certain level of poverty in the US to opt out of filing taxes. You have to file taxes if you are a fiscal resident of France and if you are living in France for more than 183 days you’re a fiscal resident.
PAYING taxes is about what you have set up and that’s an accountant discussion.
Stephen,
Thanks for your reply. I do pay my taxes in the US.
By “set up” what do you mean, exactly?
I would be glad to pay taxes in France, but I don’t want anything to impact my employer. I.e. if I pay taxes in France, would that somehow get back to my employer and they would be on the line for paying taxes in France, as well?
By set up I mean I don’t know if you own companies or properties in other countries. That affects how you are set up for taxes worldwide.
I’m not an accountant so I can’t answer whether you will pay taxes in France or not. I can only say there is no scenario in which paying taxes in France means that your employer gets in trouble.
I always find your posts super-interesting and informative (am also an American living in France). Here though, it’s great that you like Free, but I’ve read too many nightmare stories here about how hard it is to “fire Free” once they’ve got you that I never plan to choose them.
Glad to see that you saw the light at the end of the tunnel. My daughter who is an English Teacher since 2017 sighed up for Free Mobile and although she have not been out of her country of birth for the past 2 years she continue to keep paying for her Free Mobile plan. She is unable to use it here in Trinidad and Tobago but insists that she keep the plan for when our island opens up from Covid and she can get a job out there. She pays €2.00 to keep the plan but normally would pay €19.00 a month. Many times I questioned why she keeps the plan since it’s going into 2 years and she have not been able to use the plan but now I see her wisdom. By you endorsing the company Free Mobile. I once made a call in London to the US and the call costed me €116.00 thankfully I was able to retrieve my money from Expedia because they were the reason I had to spend and hour on her phone. Thank you for sharing your story. It was very helpful and interesting.
Thanks! Do you know about having a phone from a US company and how you know if it can use a new SIM card?
What did you do about texts for verifications purposes that went to your old US number?
Love this blog! What about renting out a property? I am a Canadian living in France on a long stay visitor visa. I have a small second cottage I have for family and friends. I would like to rent it out when not in use. It wouldnt make more than 10k euros/year. Can I do that on a visitor visa? If not, can I even get a different visa with such low earnings?
Property rental falls into a gray zone, as you could live outside of France and you would still be able to rent out a property (and pay taxes on your earnings). I suppose you could use that towards your total income, but you would need to tack on at least another 4k in savings or income as 10k is not enough to pass the means test for a visitor visa.
Stephen, great advice (of course). We bought a small pass to the main places we knew we were going to see. It worked out fine but we did leave room for just walking around. You’re right about the walkability of Paris! You coached us on how to use the metro and we navigated that pretty well. It was very easy once we got used to it. However, we loved just walking from one place to another. Paris is really a beautiful city!
Sorry, I misread: I understand you didn’t exchange your license and ask for a new US one- but do you know of anyone who did or what the rules are about that? Thanks!
Yes Beatrice I have received more than one email from someone who has successfully done precisely what I suggested in the article. Again, I cannot speak for all states but the principles I enunciated are sound, hence why I felt comfortable recommending that path.
Yes, yes, and yes. Great sound advice. I was very pleasantly surprised when I learned that my transit app works here, has been very useful to gauge how long next Metro, RER, or bus will be.
Refusing banking bc you’re “American” and/or “US Person” with special boxes to tick stating that you are “American”. Could imagine if these boxes and refusals were bc you were a Jew? Or Black? Or Albanian?..that’s the US empire.
Not quite the same thing. It’s reasonable for countries to react to unreasonable policies of our country. It only illustrates how little the US cares about its citizens abroad or how much their “foreign policy” resembles that of playground bullies.
Thank you M. Heiner. Many French banks specifically call out the US person/American-ness by having to tick boxes, particularly “US persons” etc for discrimination purposes due to US empire overreach and full spectrum US dominance.
However, the French govt/the French willingly and voluntarily participated in joining FATCA. That is willful bc they did not the 30% US empire penalty on their investment transfers and have provided very little if any ‘push back’ to the US empire. Why? Do they simply want USians for tourism purposes, but not as emigrants?
The French discriminate against US persons-it is similar as discrimination against Jews, Italians, Irish-need not apply. Tick that box-you’re a Jew. Rejected. It’s the same. Please Replace US person for Jew? Italian? Japanese? In fact North Koreans are permitted to open accounts NOT US persons–have this writing from a Parisian high street bank!?
The US Empire is unrelenting in their imperialism over our countries and total control of their tax subjects (“citizens”). Freedom? More like clever marketing/propaganda. Perhaps, it is time to renounce as with any toxic/abusive ‘relationship’ having a US person stigma is a total disability if one dares leave the US, they’re seen as a defector and cannot live an ordinary life for immigration purposes (not talking abt expating or temp long term visits). The US was a business enterprise masquerading as a country and it’s populace simply tenants/tax cows. All roads lead to renounciation (John Richardson). Thank you Sir.
My experiences with USPS parcels from USA to France (Paris)
I’m living in France
The record was 8 weeks and this was before COVID crisis …
Just recently 50 days.
To be honest, there is a small improvement, now I’m able to track the parcel from one departure to arrival ! That doesn’t make it faster but you can follow without registering
Before, when you are living outside USA, you can not register !!! For registration address is requested AND the STATE is claimed … but there is no states in France, and no way to specified you are oversea or outside USA.
When other carriers are used by sender it takes from 5 to 7 days !!!
I still don’t understand how they manage to be so slow ???
We moved to France from Kansas, which is listed as a reciprocal state. We intended to exchange our American liscences for French ones. We brought all the necessary documentation, an agent provided by my husband’s employer, and were within the first year of residence here. The Prefecture said that Kansas was not on “their” list. It was a nightmare. We both had to pass the theory code and take driving lessons and exam like a novice driver. And all in French. It was a very stressful time. So even if online, the state is listed as reciprocal, it doesn’t always work once you get here.
Hi this looks like the right place to ask a complicated question. I have applied for a exchange with my Michigan license (a reciprocal state) and have done it within the year allowed with my carts sejour. My license is still valid until 2023. I’ve just been notified to produce papers showing the original passing of my exam !!! That would be in 1986 in California (not a reciprocal state)— even if I could get this information – why would they ask when I have given them 10 years of a perfect driving record in Michigan? Even translated. And proof of residency? Have you ever heard this?
It might be the right place to ask Tatiana, but I’m sorry I don’t have a good answer – as I’ve never heard of this case before. Perhaps someone else in the comments may have and can share an answer!
my guess since I cannot read the French answer is probably the statement from your Michigan DMV that your license is still valid (you have not lost all your points) and includes information as towhee did you get it the 1st time, … In short the normal information found in a French license.
Can you apply for the passeport talent while in France on the normal 90 day tourist visa? My husband has a job that will sponsor him for this visa already.
I wish I had learned about you much earlier. In my eagerness to get started on my VISA, I learned about XXXXX’s book and thought it was thorough enough to deem her the expert. Since I have forked over $1500 which included two one hour consultations, she doesn’t even offer customer service to answer questions from her on-line courses. If anyone is considering using her services, I will be glad to talk to you about my experiences.
Sorry to hear that. I’ve heard enough bad news that I may have to do a name-and-shame article soon enough so that people who do a modicum of due diligence on Google can learn about her crazy prices and incorrect information.
I would love to follow your story and updates. I am 54 and have a daughter living in Aix Provence for 5 months — we love all France, she has a degree in French Language.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the DELF exam. I completely agree, the test requires many hours of study. Of course, it varies from learner to learner, but one should learn as much French as possible, inside and outside the classroom in order to successfully pass the test.
Hello,
In the application that I filled out back in July I put two pieces of information that have now changed as I am going in for my VISA appointment on Sept 24:
1) The intended date of entry into France as 25.09.2021
2) The address in France during my stay.
Does this mean that I have to re-do cancel the appointment and change the application?
Thank you for this great blog entry. I was a victim of Allison Lounges and she has not been very forthright with information that I needed.
I would like to add an extra warning on the so-called visa advisor referenced above. I hired this person for a year of assistance and within a month of my arrival in Paris, just as I was getting the sense that this person was not actually experienced in visa requirements and processes, my calls, texts and emails went unanswered and I never heard from them again. The worst part of this experience was not just the loss of the 3500 € that I had paid for these services, it was also the fact that I had tried to ensure that I was taking care of all my new responsibilities and requirements only to be left without any of those resources when I needed them the most. And while this person does not seem to have any worthwhile visa expertise, they are very skilled in erasing negative feedback and their previous websites and identities from the Internet. When I tried to track this person down, I found other clients who had also been cheated but those comments are longer accessible anywhere. I truly hope that no one else has to suffer this kind of experience.
Im so sorry to hear that. It’s so strange that people can carry on for years as a fraud. It may be time to create a website to collect all of these stories. With SEO it’s the only way to make sure others are warned. If you think this would be worth pursuing, send me an email and we can talk more.
I just want put in a word for Stephen’s advice and info. It is spot on regarding remote work and also LS visa during Covid. We thought we couldn’t travel last year, and we saw his advice, took it, and all was fine. Same with the remote work. And he was so kind to call me to help answer a question I had once we arrived. We’re in the States for a “regroup” right now, but def will continue to follow his blog and his very reasonably priced courses.
Hi Jean, call me a dodo, an idiot, a half-wit, or whatever else you’d like (in large part because my question might’ve already been answered) — when does the 1 year limitation begin, a) our initial arrival to France? b) the date we received our titre de sejour card?
In my case I arrived Feb 4 2020 on just a normal tourist visa (just before covid), but didn’t get my titre de sejour until Apri 4 2021.
No need to name call! As it’s been noted above, the clock starts from the time your residency in France begins. If you’re on an ordinary visitor visa and you are now in possession of a card, your year has already elapsed.
Hi Stephen, and thanks for the wealth of information. I am going to France on a long-stay visa for only 5-6 months to do research type work, and wonder if it’s worth the hassle to apply for a French bank account. I have most of my large expenses already taken care of (e.g. Airbnb/housing) and already have a German bank account as well as Wise/Transferwise and Revolut. My only concern is whether the employer be okay transferring my salary in Euros to any of these, but other than that, I feel like it’s not worth a hassle. Should someone in my situation worry about getting a French bank account?
The bank account is integral for renewal. Since you’re on a visa for under 12 months, you’re ineligible for renewal anyway, so no worries. Skip the French bank account (unless you really want one, then your official visitor status gives you the muscle to open one).
Returning to the subject of getting a French bank account for the purpose of paying rent, electric, phone, etc… You had mentioned Bred as being easy to access online so I tried for 2 weeks! the application process was finicky and keep telling me to do things I had already done (welcome to France!). Finally I reached an English speaking person from Bred on the phone and they told me some bogus information which never did work.
Is there any bank that will let me make an appointment online to come into the bank to apply to an English speaking agent? I dont speak French fluently enough to navigate a bank.
I do have Wise and their debit card which so far has worked well for my first 4 weeks in France on a Long Stay visitor Visa with Resident stamp.
Can you recommend a bank that will help me?
Hello Lesia! Thanks for reading. I just want to make sure that I understand your question – do you mean is there an option for an older person to come to France on an au pair visa to be a live-in nanny?
Hi Molli –
I am writing a new project here, and want to apply for the “passeport talent – profession artistique et culturelle.” I’ve read though your very helpful information, and downloaded the Eléments du ou des contrats de travail document. I’m just a bit lost when trying to find the profession artistique et culturelle application itself. Is it the link below? https://france-visas.gouv.fr/en/web/france-visas/ma-demande-en-ligne
Thanks so much in advance for any info.
Hi Glen, thanks so much for reading! Yes, use the link you’ve provided to start the visa application process. You’ll have to create an account with France-Visas and follow the steps they provide. Once you’ve made your account you’ll be able to access the application. You can do this in English to avoid any confusion! I hope this helps.
Hi everyone,
I bought on the Reebok US store sneakers. As they don’t ship in Europe a friend living in DC pick them and send me to France with USPS. I was checking informations about delays and found out your blog and was afraid after reading your article and comments…
just to balance and give you feedback about my experience : it was f*@#!k fast !!
My friend sent me last monday my parcel : October 18th and received it today October 26th
Maybe they improve their process and now the covid situation will be better and better…
be patient ! take care !
cheers
Nico.
That’s great to hear! That article was written some time ago so obviously things can change. I obviously am not hoping for delays, but am just telling people to prepare for them.
Hi Antoinette,
I paid outrageous 55$ shipping fees from US to France for Sneakers.
My friend paid this amount straight in the post office
I didn’t know if customs fees where included in this fees because when I collected the parcel yesterday I didn’t pay something else.
It looks expensive, so I guess it was included… what do you think about it ? this price seems regular for you ?
Rose if you mean the 90-day “visa waiver” that is not a visa in any kind of sense. You will have no status in France to apply, therefore you cannot apply here. You will need to apply from your country of residence.
I am in the process of applying for a long stay visa, I will continue to work remotely (I am self employed). What manner of documentation should I present?
Thank you,
Very interesting commentary on this training, Gracie, thanks! One correction: although it is technically correct to say that the Fifth Republic began after WW II, it is more accurate to say that the Fourth Republic began after WW II. The Quatrième République was formed in 1946; the Cinquième République in 1958. As it was written, it’s like saying that JFK was elected after WW II; technically correct, but misleading.
Hi Gracie – if I get PACSed without having lived in France for 12 months, do you know which type of visa I should apply for? Long-term stay visa of VPF?
Thanks!
Great question. Since you need 12-months of proof of living with your PACSed partner, I would recommend applying for a long-term stay visitor visa (which we have a recent post on here) then spend the twelve months that grants you getting together the documents which prove your cohabitation, after which you could apply for a VPF. This is what I did, and I was able to get a VPF without any issues at the prefecture.
Hope that’s helpful and good luck on your journey,
Gracie
Hi Stephen – Quick question: For the proof of medical insurance requirement for the PL application, is proof of coverage under Assurance Maladie / Ameli / Carte Vitale sufficient or do you need coverage with an insurance provider?
Hi. Thanks for the great post. I’m currently in France with my 90 days set to expire the end of January. I’d like to apply for a long-stay visa but I don’t want to travel back to the US for an interview, if I can avoid it. Is there any way to complete the application process while actually in France before my 90 days is up? Thanks! –Ben
We have lived and worked in France for a decade, both on a CDI and as individual corporations (micro-entrepreneur, EURL), and you posit the choice quite nicely: More benefits == less flexibility/opportunity. The requirements on businesses here are…crushing. They are even more so on entrepreneurs and sole proprietors. We love our life here but it is indeed anti-business.
The “benefits” you list, if you add them up, are basically a hill of beans compared to the tax burden. Resto tickets are nice, vacation/holiday checks are nice, but that money is coming out of your salary. In effect, you are paying yourself to eat lunch out every day. Think about that. Same with the 5 weeks of vacation. You are paying for those weeks by earning half what you would make in the US for a similar job.
Now, the quality of life and security, for those lucky enough to have a CDI, is phenomenal. But if you want to change careers, to strike out on your own … well, good luck with that…
At the end of your entry, you wrote: “The French expect you to have money in a French account but as long as it’s not income earned in France your LTS visa won’t be in jeopardy.”
Can you clarify what you mean by as long as it’s not income earned in France? I have a professional libérale visa as you know.
While the French can assert that any income you earn anywhere in the world in a particular designation (let’s say, as a screenwriter) should be run through your French screenwriting business, there is no moral or legal way that they can compel or enforce this. Reframed another way, if you have a Bulgarian corporation that also does screenwriting, and a client pays that instead of your French prof lib business, that’s not going to be “income earned in France.”
I meant, why is “money not income earned in France” important not to put your LTS in jeopardy? Are you meaning if the LTS Visa is a visitor’s visa because in that case, you can’t be making money in France? As opposed to the Pro-Lib, which of course, I can make money as long as I’m not an official employee.
Visitors can’t earn money in France and for purposes of the prefecture they generally want to see money deposited into your French bank account as originating from you or your foreign (non-French) employer. But to make this less complicated/tricky I generally recommend that people should receive their remote income into a non-French account.
As far as Prof Lib, bombs away. Bring in all the money you want…with the resulting tax consequences. Just remember that if you have other entities who can also receive payments for that business you are fully in charge of how much income you want to bring in. Also remember VAT triggers the minute your French business hits 32,100€ in annual revenue. There’s an article on the site about that.
Hi!
Thank you for the very helpful article! I have a couple of questions.
If I want to apply for a visa “passeport talent – profession artistique et culturelle” and my husband will accompany me, 1,064.85€ gross per month and is it per person? So it should be doubled for two people or this amount is per family?
And can I apply for this type of visa if I am a freelance artist?
Thank you.
Hi Lena! Thanks for reading. The only person with a salary requirement here would be the one applying for a visa. If your visa is approved your husband will be able to apply for a VPF (vie privée familiale – a visa for spouses of long-stay visa holders) visa to join you. There are no salary requirements for this type of visa!
Yes, you can apply for the passeport talent as a freelance artist, if you meet all of the requirements. I offer consultations on just this type of thing. Feel free to get in touch if you’re interested!
I’ve applied for a long stay visitors visa on January 11th and will be arriving in France on April 25th. I made my appointment with VFS for Jan. 31st. (I’d mistakenly thought that “submitting the application” was different than “submitting the form” and assumed the actual application would be submitted by VFS on the 31st.)
Just to confirm, I need to submit a second application after the 25th and then delete first?
Thanks so much – sharing your experience is so valuable!
Regina
Hi Regina, just to recap you submitted the form/application on France-Visas on January 11th and the issue is that since you don’t plan to leave until April 25th that would be a bit more than the three months in advance in which you are supposed to submit the application.
To answer your question, yes I would submit a new form on or after January 25th, and delete the original. However before deleting it I would also print out the original and bring it with you to VFS in addition to the new one, just in the off chance the question comes up and you need to explain why did two. It probably won’t but this way you will be prepared. Good luck! I think you’ll be fine.
Hi Stephen great blog thank you question I have a passport talent visa and want to bring my daughter to work for me in france is this possible as my employee? Thank you
Hello Lucy – jumping in here as I have some experience in applying for the passeport talent! How old is your daughter? Depending on your situation, you could bring her over under the vie privée et familiale (VPF) visa. If she gets approved for this visa she would be allowed to have any type of legal employment here in France. You can learn more about what you’ll need to provide to apply for this visa here. If you need some additional assistance on this, feel free to contact me here for a consultation 🙂
There are 4 very different ways to approach this project:
1 – If you have a French business i.e., having a Nº SIRET that is NOT! MICRO entreprise, you can go through the procedure to get her the right to work for you. Chances of success about zero and if it does the social charges are very expensive.
2 – VPF is really possible only with a minor and should be done through the “regroupement familial” procedure. It takes a very long time about 1 year before the visa is issued. If she is over 18 it does not work.
3 – she can always be a student in France, then depending on her long term goals, she chooses the school and the topic, getting a French master opens a lot of doors when it comes to immigration.
4 – the cheapest, fastest, and simplest is “visiteur” and you sponsor her for lodging and financial means. What is left is the health insurance policy she needs to get the visa. In a couple of months she is with you.
Bottom line the latter one gets her with you very easily and she gets nothing else. With student she gets a part-time right to work as an employee, and she can still be sponsored by you for the home & the money.
Do you need to show a minimum income per month? I would just be starting out a business and don’t expect to generate much income until about 8 months in. What are they looking to see to determine if to renew this the following year?
Hi Arden, thanks for reading. There is no required minimum per month, but you are required to declare your income monthly as soon as you open your auto-entreprise (yes, you will need to declare even if you earn 0 euros). There is no visa connected to being an auto-entrepreneur, so you shouldn’t need to rely on it for any type of renewal appointment unless you have a passeport talent visa. In that case, the monthly minimum is greater than or equal to €1,122.18.
Per the URSAAF website you do not report any earnings for the first 90 days. After this waiting period, then you report either on a monthly basis or quarterly basis.
Hi Aleem, thanks for reading! You’re correct — you’ll notice that I mentioned that when you see the red ‘1’ next to “mes échéances en cours” you’re required to start paying. You won’t see that until after the first 90 days so thank you fo pointing that out!
With a visitor visa, after a year can you change the status to a freelance visa or if you get offered a work contract in France is it easy to change the visitor visa to a new status? I would like to learn french the first year then try to find a job.
This isn’t a good idea. Firstly, you cannot change out of a visitor visa until you have renewed it at least once and “served out” that renewal period. Also, sponsorship for a French job is in the tens of thousands of euros so unless you possess a unique and desirable skill set that no one else in the EU has, you’re not going to get a French job that easily.
As an aside, not every job in France requires French, interestingly enough. There are plenty in the tech sector, for example, where the company language is English. Same in banking.
When thinking about living abroad, not just in France, you have to ditch all the “normal” views you have about jobs, especially when you’re not a citizen.
Thank you for the continuous education about the French immigration! Following this article, I’d also like to share my own experience with my visa that recently happened in early 2022 when it came to getting medical assistance in France, and which almost turned in to a crisis!
If social workers, for instance, PASS at any public hospitals in France turn you down because of your long stay visitor visa, please contact the organization, “Comede” for immigration law assistance! I was rejected by PASS at 2 public hospitals & 3 other organizations because of my “Visiteur Visa” as it prints on my passport; but Comede helped solve my ordeal!
Please know according to “Arrêté Ministériel” (Ministerial Decree), foreigners with long stay visitor visa can get medical assistance from public hospitals in France, and you don’t have to return to your country for urgent care or chronicle disease medicines before your visa expires!
This August it’ll be my first time to re-apply (some say you cannot just renew) my Long Stay Visitor Visa. A French woman once mentioned that it’s not an easy thing to do, is it true??
Does that mean by going to a French class will make the re-application for my visa easier??
I’m working on getting into a French class via “Cours d’Adultes” by Mairie de Paris, I missed the registration deadline for last semester in 2021, this semester starts this week on Feb. 10 and I don’t know if I’m officially accepted yet. (I didn’t know that class until coming to France, and hence missed the deadline. People say refugees have the first place, and there are so many of them every year)
In case if I only take a semester (4-month-long, 2 semesters per year) of French class, or even none for my first year staying in France, will it make it difficult for me to re-apply for my visa??
Thanks for reading! My first question would be, how did you get your Long Stay Visa the first time around? Was it for school, work, to be with a family member?
If you choose not to take any sort of classes it wouldn’t make renewing your visa more difficult (unless you’re here on a student visa), but if you do, it’s just one more piece of evidence to show at the prefecture that you’re trying to integrate into French culture, which is always a good thing!
When I first applied, I told them my goal was to immigrate to France; but in the first 2-3 years I’ll focus on learning French. They said long stay visitor visa is the only one I could apply for.
I registered the French class of Cours d’Adultes by Mairie de Paris and went for the interview this week. Somehow the teacher only took in my application without interview or taking notes as he did for others, and he alone decides who may attend the class! Another teacher there once told me refugees & those who need to work are their top priority. I was treated obviously unfairly on interview; but no staff at that public school (Alésia) spoke English and my guess is no need to file a complaint for that to the school, or to Mairie de Paris!
In the article you recommend 2 schools to learn French outside the ring of Paris, are they expensive???? 4 months of Cours d’Adultes by Mairie de Paris is €300, and it’s a bargain to me….
I understand, but that still doesn’t answer my question 🙂 You can’t be approved for a visa simply because your goal is to immigrate to France! Are you working here? Are you in university? Is a family member here for either of those things and you’re here on a VPF visa?
When you renew your visa, you’ll have to provide proof that you have been doing what you originally came to France to do: proof that you’ve worked, gone to school, or lived with a family member – it all depends on what you were originally approved to do here.
As far as the price of the schools I reference, you’ll have to visit their websites to find out more about their prices. 300 euros for 4 months of classes is a steal – you’re right!
No, it was all what I told them upon my application….I wish to immigrate to France and learn about the beautiful French culture! The only restriction I was told was I would not be able to work in France.
Without a study, work or family in France, does it mean it will be more difficult for me to re-apply for long stay visitor visa??
Also, everyone needs to leave France to re-apply for visa of all kinds, right!?
I came from the States, no more have a home in the States, what is the nearest country for me to go to for re-applying my visa?
Merci beaucoup!
I see – I missed the “visitor” in your question. Sorry about that! No, you shouldn’t run into any difficulties renewing your visitor vias as long as you can prove that you can financially support yourself. You can renew in France, as long as you do so before your current visa expires. If your visa expires you need to leave France ASAP and return to your home country (where you hold citizenship). Even if you don’t have a physical address in the US anymore if you are a US citizen you would have to return to the States to reapply. If you are a citizen elsewhere, you would need to return there. Hope this helps!
Hey you mind helping me ? I have a friend that would love to study in France this year but has no clue how to , please respond , thank you very much.
Thank you so much for your in-depth piece. So helpful! The timing could not be better for me to read this as I have my convocation medicale with OFII in just over two weeks. Unfortunately it didn’t occur to me to get vaccination paperwork before leaving for Paris. I asked for my medical records from my current doctor but none of my childhood vaccines are part of that. Thanks for the heads up regarding being able to contact my high school or the option to do the antibody titer test which I will try to find here in France.
Did you end up and get a test in France? I am in the same situation where I brought my medical history but not my childhood vaccines and I am not sure if I need to do more before my appointment.
Merci for the info! “You can renew in France, as long as you do so before your current visa expires.” sounds too good to be true to me. Just one more question……
How much of “fairness” do public services in France practice with??
It was obviously a discrimination against my interview for my French class application! I sent inquiries (translated in French) either in person or in email to La Poste, Société Générale, BNP Parisba, Office Depot France….none of them bothered to reply! So, I guess there is no need for me to file a complaint to Mairie de Paris about being discriminated on my interview??
I just recently got my medical convocation but was not indicated an x-ray center on my convocation. Anyone knows what this might mean or how I should go about getting an X-Ray Appointment?
First thanks for the wealth of information here. In Paris, do they give X-ray during the same “visite médicale organisée par les service de l’OFII” summoned in the letter?
The convocation letter I received doesn’t mention any separate X-ray facility, and the “visite médicale organisée par les service de l’OFII” is scheduled at Montrouge 92120, immediately outside the boundary of the Paris city proper.
Hello Stephen — I’m not sure if others have ever asked this question… My wife and I are retired and plan to spend about six months living in Paris every year for the foreseeable future. We plan to spend approximately mid-April thru mid-July and September thru November each year in Paris and the other months in the U.S. We each have recently obtained one year “Long sejour temporaire” visas from the consulate in Washington DC (our permanent residence city). We did that because the Schengen 90-out-of-180-days rule does not allow us to stay in Paris as we wish. The note from the consulate accompanying the visas in our passports says “This type of visa exempts you from registering with the OFII and applying for a residence card. You have to leave France by the expiration of your visa.”
My question is: What should we do so that in 2023 (and years after) we can continue to come to Paris on the same 3 mo. + 3 mo. schedule? Should we apply for a NEW Long sejour temporaire visa in early 2023 to start when our current ones end, or is there a way to “renew” our current visas before they expire in mid-April 2023?
Your advise is welcome!
Because you clicked the box for “6 months to 1 year” when applying for your visa, you got the OFII exemption, which also means you are ineligible for renewal.
I’m confused, however, because if you’re only looking to spend six months a year in France, and are willing to do “90 every 180” you have no need of a visa! You can take full advantage of the visa waiver program. If, however, you want to maintain your current schedule of mid-April through mid-July and September through November, you’ll need a visa, but if you get a renewable visa, you’re going to become a fiscal resident of France automatically, even if you are only on the ground six months out of the year. If you don’t want that financial complication, simply apply for this visa every year from America, knowing you are not going to get a renewal.
Hi Stephen — Thanks for your prompt answer to my question. Indeed, we want to stay in France for six months without becoming fiscal residents. So, it seems we did get the right visas. Am I correct to assume that we can re-apply (from the U.S.) every year for the foreseeable future for the same “non-renewable” visas? Thanks again for your guidance.
Yes, I think I would just encourage you to stay within a margin of error of the “183 day rule” and stay 175, just to give yourself a bit of breathing room should zealous tax authorities decide to really scrutinize. Since you will have a full year visa it can be tempting to stay longer (because you’ll be able to come and go as you please) but just be really careful here as I can attest as a French fiscal resident for almost a decade now, it’s an additional wrinkle to steer clear of if you aren’t here full-time.
Thanks again. I’ll be sure to count the days, not just the months. All the best to you.
Hello, thanks for sharing your experience. I was wondering if you might share the date (month) of when you had your appointment and then when you finally received the actual card? I have recently applied for a VPF (Jan 2022) and struggling to understand the timeline. I did not receive a recipisse on site and am wondering if the process has changed since you did yours or if it’s cause for concern. Thanks in advance!
Thanks for reading. When I renewed this VPF this year, I received in recipissé at the appointment in September and an SMS stating my carte de séjour was ready to be picked up in early November (which was impressively quick turn-around). Previously, for my first VPF, I’d had an appointment in October and picked up my carte de séjour in February. It is strange to me that you didn’t receive a recipissé on site. The only reason I can think not to issue one is if your current titre de séjour would be valid for several more months. Is this the case? Also, did they tell you if your request for a VPF had been approved?
Thanks Gracie – no they didn’t approve on site, in fact they gave me very little info. They said my file had to be reviewed by someone else ( the lady who looked through my docs did not say anything was missing or anything like that) and gave me an email address where I could request a recipisse. For my previous long stay CDS I had received the recipisse on site so I also found it odd not to receive anything. I am now needing to travel and have no document to prove that my case is being reviewed. My current CDS expired in December! Appreciate if you have anymore insight or advice? But I know each case is particular and so hard to find reliable info. May need to go the legal advice route! Thanks for sharing your story though, so helpful to read through other peoples experiences!
Thank you for sharing this information. I am applying to be a freelance line producer in the film/commercial industry. I have 5-6 interested French clients willing to write letters of intent. I will draft these for them.
Three quick questions, please:
1- should the letters of intent from French companies be written in French, or OK if they’re in English?
2- would it be OK if all 6 were practically identical, or should I try to differentiate to keep each more original?
3- do the companies need to provide supporting documents (incorporation and tax documents) along with the letters? I understand this is only necessary if joining or partnering with a company on contract.
Americans think “more is better” but that’s not how the French bureaucratic mind works. Have two, maybe three at the most. Have the additional ones on hand should you be asked for them. Do not give the French more than they ask for, ever.
The letters do not have to be differentiated, and certainly do not have to be in French, especially if you are applying from an English-speaking country.
The companies need to provide ZERO supporting documents.
I would like to answer slightly differently even though Stephen’s answer is right on when he states:
“Americans think “more is better” but that’s not how the French bureaucratic mind works. Have two, maybe three at the most. Have the additional ones on hand should you be asked for them. Do not give the French more than they ask for, ever.”
My experience is that the French administration demands “full proof” and this generates more than what an American expects to bring. So it is not a myth that French files have a lot of documents.
This said, all the documents in the file must serve a purpose. Adding the wrong document harms your changes of success and it only takes one. Stephen’s comment is spot on in that regard.
The French administration demands to be convinced that your annual billing is going to be at least 23,000€. So having letters and signed contract showing an annual billing of about 40,000€, does that job.
Depending on the clientele, as well as the services rendered the right number of letters can be between 3 and 7 or so. Each case is different.
The key is that those letters can all have the same format, pretty say the sae thing, as long as it matches the business plan and the financial projections.
The file must be very coherent, and delivers unified message.
So the letters of intent from French companies are written in French, why would it be in English?
So it is OK if all 6 were practically identical as long as the services they mention are coherent with the project and their own activities. BTW, back to Stephen’s comment if those 6 gross over 100,000€ and you never manage to make this kind of money, it looks fishy!
The companies as such do not need to provide supporting documents but your project can demand that you introduce those companies as being the heart of your clientele and you explain why.
I believed that the answer needed some nuances.
Hello! Thank you for this guide. I’m a freelance graphic designer, I work remotely – but am paid by a production payroll company. Which route would you recommend I take ? I’d be interested in citizenship but almost want to go the visitor route to make sure I want to commit fully to the country. Being that I don’t have my own business per se, but also can work as a graphic designer via Freelance and Fiver. Just unclear as to how to approach this, please advise.
What taxes? Because I can’t and haven’t worked in France so I don’t pay taxes. Do you mean tax foncier and tax d’habitation?
Ariya
France, like the United States, requires its fiscal residents to FILE taxes every year, even if you don’t OWE taxes. I think there is an amnesty in which you can file for multiple back years with the French (the US only require the last three, I think, when you try to get back on track with them…ask an accountant to be sure) but you have absolutely ZERO chance of getting a carte de resident until you’re holding five years of tax returns in your hands.
If you read the articles on this site I frequently explain the need to file taxes and how valuable those tax returns are as administrative documents.
Again, owing taxes is not relevant here. It is filing them that matters.
Thank you so much for this information, I’ve learned so much from reading your responses to the other questions! I have an art business that I operate with my partner. If he is a part of the business do we need to earn double the annual requirement or does he need a separate visa all together? Thanks again! Katherine
I’ve heard of cases that were approved in which the amount earned was not quite double, but 80% of a double amount. In any case, double would be your safest bet.
Thank you for this helpful article! I am in a similar situation now. Do you know if the Prefecture in the 17th still issues récépissés? I live in the 5th. Is there another Prefecture I should go to?
Thank you in advance!
Left Bank and Right Bank go to different spots, but things have changed since Covid-19. It may make sense for you to just make an appointment to get a recipisse at the Prefecture.
I would think they can be in English since you are submitting the request for the visa in the USA and those letters are sent to you while you live in the USA. One cannot assume that you read French and the content documents an agreement between the 2 of you.
This is super informative! I still have a carte vitale from when I was a full time student then profession libérale which formally ended in December 2018 when I didn’t renew my PL because I returned to the US. I cancelled my mutuel at that time. My CV still works i found out when I went to a pharmacy there in July 2021 for a covid test. I’ll be requesting your assistance to apply for a long term carte de séjour next year, which I know requires insurance coverage. I’ve been paying tax every year on rental income of my Paris apartment since then until I return. Any idea if can state on my application that u have a CV for insurance?
Hi Stephen,
Just a note to let you know that I am praying for your dear father, Stephen Heiner. Next to my father and my Uncle Rod, I have not met a finer man than your dear father. He was a most humble soul, and I feel privileged to have met him. May you be the faithful son of such a fine man. Praying God is keeping His hand over you!
Yours in the Sacred Heart of Jesus,
Colleen M. Schroepfer
P.S.- I pray your mother and sisters are well!
I have gathered the documents for my application. There is one point that remains in question to me.
Under the <> form, one required document to provide if you are self-employed is: “proof of URSSAF (French body managing social security payments) registration”.
I do not plan to set up a company, but to work as an independent/freelance Line Producer in the commercial film industry. I would get hired and paid on a job-to-job basis through the Intermittent du Spectacle program.
I understand that by asking for proof of URSSAF they’d like me to prove that I’m on my way to getting set up for the type of work I propose I will do in France.
Curious to know how you suggest I set myself up here. Do I show proof of my Pole Emploi and Intermittent du Spectacle accounts? And do I go into detail about this on my cover letter, to show my understanding of it all.
Other than this, I believe I am ready to submit and get to that Consulate Interview!
On my second paragraph between was “List of documents to be submitted with an application for an Entrepreneur / independent professional” temporary residence permit.
Hi, Because I am considered a US person, I am having trouble investing my inheritance. I am a resident of France and am fiscally resident in France. Even so, with the FACTA laws, I am having a hard time finding a bank or something I can invest in. What to do?
Unfortunately, I can’t be of assistance here. You might consider moving that money to another EU jurisdiction where you have more flexibility to invest, like Malta or Cyprus or Liechtenstein.
I greatly appreciate the information conveyed here as well as detail of your responses to a wide variety of needs, issues, and experience. Will be rereading for sure. Thank you.
A little late to this post, but I had a question regarding the letter from the employer. My job is 100% remote with flexible hours, but I would rather not tell them I am moving to France. Is it possible to show the job offer letter for that requirement rather than asking my boss to sign a letter saying they know that I am moving?
Also, my new job starts in a month so I don’t have pay stubs from that employer. However, I have about 70% of the income needed in cash ($1250/mo x 8), a tax return from last year that shows I made more than enough from my last job, and obviously my job offer letter that shows my future salary. Would that be acceptable or should I wait until I have my first pay stub?
Hi Kim, there are several issues here. Straight away it raises a red flag that you are hesitant to tell your employer of your move. The issue goes far beyond whether they write you a letter, but rather, to the grave risk you are taking relying on them for your livelihood if your relocation is not something they would support. I don’t know the specifics of your situation, but I would think about this very carefully.
As for your financial situation, I think you would be well served to wait. From the French perspective the offer letter is a future probability, not a certainty. A paystub is tangible, and working a few months gives you the opportunity to grow your savings account as well. You are already close, but it’s better to present a strong position than appear marginal and end up with a denied application. Good luck!
Things haven’t changed for the better.
A debit card sent from my bank in the US took 6 weeks to get here this year.
I really can’t say if the problem is the French or US postal service. While the US isn’t tracking well, the French tend to leave things in some pile somewhere and if they don’t get to it, they just send everything back (at best) or dead letter it, or steal. (This is known in France & the employees can’t bze fired! There was a long article on the subject in Capital some years ago.)
A few years ago a credit card was sent by FedEx, and 9 days later I hadn’t received it. When the FedEx agent finally made it to my house, he explained that it had been holed up in some back office at Charles de Gaulle.
DHL is also pretty bad, as the delivery service is subcontracted to the French postal service which ranks its importance behind French postal priority.
And UPS is the pits.
My advice: If it isn’t important enough to send by FedEx, don’t send it!
I wish I saw these posts before I used USPS. Going on a month and it says they attempted to deliver my package 1 time and now it’s sitting at a collection point. No one can provide the address of the collection point and the customer service agent said she would put a request and they have 5-25 days to respond. I’m beyond pissed, I typically use FedEx but decided to save a few dollars and this is what I get. SMDH
Sorry to hear that Kris. Anomalies lately. I’ve had a single letter reach me from the US in 7 days, but an RSVP sent by me. declining attendance at a wedding, sent on time for their catering deadline, didn’t arrive until 8 weeks after the wedding. And that was just a card. Thankfully the groom checked with me so I didn’t contribute to an unnecessary seat. But yeah, it’s a mess still.
This sounds awesome! One of my concerns about moving to France is being able to rent an apartment. I’ve read enough about the process that it scares me. Your Airbnb idea is something g I’ll keep in mind.
I have a valid Florida license with motorcycle endorsement. Will France do a straight swap with the endorsement? Some have said i mist take a course all over again in France for the endorsement to be on the French license.
I have been having the endorsement for 35 years.
The French don’t care how long you’ve had the endorsement. If you want to ride a motorcycle more than 50hp, you’re going to need to take a 7 hour class. This is assuming that Florida is approved for a straight swap.
Thank you for this article it is so helpful especially the antibodies test to replace the vaccination record. You mentioned that Référence réglementaire (regulatory reference) number from a drop-down list and the number can be found somewhere on your visa in small print, but for my VSLTS visiteur visa there is no reference. The R311-3 5° is nowhere to be seen. And I can’t further proceed the validation process without this number. Please advise if you know anything about it. Thank you.
Hi Angie, I have been trying to do some research on this and I am wondering if they might have changed the number. Is the “R311-3 5°” still one of the options in the drop-down list? If not, do you see a “L426-20”? Failing that, are there any numbers in the list of options that might match something on your visa?
Thank you for your reply. It’s still the same number in the drop down but on my visa there is no number 😅 it says “visteur” and validate en linge. It’s very strange I couldn’t find any information. I did write the consultant and see what they say….
Hi all, I have the same exact issue with my visa. I did some digging and it looks like they’ve changed the numbers since May 1, 2021.
Before May 1, 2021, the CESEDA number was R311-3 5. After May 1, 2021, the CESEDA number is now R431-16 16.
Below are the sites I’m referencing. Does this look correct to anyone here? Since my visa was issued after May 1, 2021, (it was issued on June 26, 2022), I am thinking I need to put my “référence réglementaire” as CESEDA R431-16 16.
Hey Angie!
I am in France registered as a student but I also could not find the CESEDA number on my visa either.
I called: 0806 001 620 to get help (I think it is a french phone number so either call from a french phone or follow steps for calling from a foreign country).
The person ansering the phone only spoke french so he verified my phone number and had his colleuge call me back who spoke english.
She asked me the issue, I explained that the “Référence réglementaire” was not present on my visa. She promptly requested my email and then sent an explination as well as the solution.
I recieved the number that I needed.
Hope this helps!
Thank you for this great write-up. I just received my visa, and in your write you say “you will be assigned an identifiant (personal ID number)” at the end of the online process. I just wanted to know, once I pay my 200€, do I instantly or very quickly (ie. within the next hour) get my French Foreign ID number?
I ask this because I am a little cynical, and can’t believe that the French would issue something that quickly! 😀
Thank you! And please keep it up! Your blog is a great resource.
That number is automatically generated by the system.
You’re right about the slowness of their work efficiency.
You’ll discover more when you apply for a bank account.
(you may skip Société Generale, last year they told me that they don’t accept American clients)
Before coming to France, I was tired of Hollywood movies and Americans making fun of the slowness of the work efficiency here; but now I realize they were only telling the truth.
My neighbor had a extremely loud party until 6 am, I called 17 (to police), and I waited 90 minutes on phone to get to speak with someone who could take my report.
They said they would come; but they never did.
Also be careful, quite many businesses here, including Office Depot, do not accept returns even you have the receipt, it’s in a brand new condition and you just bought it within 7 days….
Great read cuz! I enjoy reading these from you as you share your life with the public. It helps me get to know more about my cousin that is a million miles away lol!
Hey Edgar,
Thank you for reading my article. Please share to show all the Filipinos what is indeed possible in creating and in finding your best life. The more we pass on the stories, the more people get to know Filipinos as a very distinct and rich culture! I appreciate your kind words. Thanks cuz, and mahalo to you, brah!
I am definitely thinner in France. As a New Yorker, I was used to getting around on foot and by bike. For me, the difference is that here in Paris the food is just healthier. Fewer additives. Fewer chemicals. Fewer hormones. And of course the smaller portion size.
Nice shout out to James Howard Kunstler. I read the Geography of Nowhere years ago, and it has always stuck with me. Will look for Home from Nowhere.
Would you consider helping me write my story for I LOVE your writing style & I LOVE everything you wrote starting with being born Flushing NY on 1969. Omg! Seriously, I feel like somehow we are twins separated at birth… ha! I landing at JFK on Dec 21, 1971 to my adoptive American family. I was almost 6 yrs old. & now I was an all American Girl!
Hey Leigh Ann,
Thanks so much for writing. You definitely should consider telling your story. I will be conducting a Creative Immersion workshop that can help you develop a writing habit and style that can tap into your authentic voice. DM me on FB and let’s explore.
I think a lot depends on the individual bureaucrat who handles the applcation. I didn’t submit my request for reciprocity (from MA) for a couple of years. Luckily I got a duplicate MA license before declaring residency. After submission I waited 18 months (pre-covid). I wrote twice to the agency without reply. I had essentially given up when voilà my French license came in the mail! This is the only time in eleven years I have had a problem with the supposedly notorious bureaucracy here. And actually it was not a problem, just an escargot’s pace.All of my few trips to the tax office have been handled politely and helpfully and professionally. Ditto insurance and medical care. Of course there are a few differences in the formalities between USA and France, but that is to be expected. À mon avis, be respectful and you will be treated respectfully.
KP this is awesome that this happened for you, but you are very much the exception. I’ve never heard of such a thing in ten years of answering questions and hearing feedback about this specific issue. The French bureaucracy is very rule-driven and this one-year rule is in place for a particular reason.
Hey Molli – My small business would be focused mainly on coaching though I would also be making money for freelance writing. I was thinking of “creatively” combining the two into one business? What are your thoughts?
Loved reading you Luke Middleton, you do have a slight advantage having lived in France as a young in. Glad France has drawn you back. Adventure awaits
I am not sure if you have the answer, but maybe you can direct me to who might! I have been working for the US Department of Defense in Germany for the past 7 years and in Japan for 14 years before that. I have a California Driver’s license which I can easily change to Colorado (parent’s residence) to have reciprocity with France, but I will not have proof of 6 months of residency as I am applying for my French long-term VISA through the Frankfurt French Embassy. I have a ‘special’ driver’s license that allows me to live and drive in Germany and the EU, but it is not an EU driver’s license. Once I leave service, I become a tourist in the EU and all special privileges, including the special driver’s license, fall away. My question is, do you know who I can contact to see what would be best in my situation? Do I go the Colorado route, or is my driving record in Germany good enough? Thank you for providing this platform for questions and solutions!
I don’t know which is the “best” way to do this, but if your German license doesn’t have an expiration, expires after you leave the service, simply swap it for a French one.
If you don’t get to keep that license when you leave, then go the CO route, as long as CO is a swappable state.
Stephen, Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts! I guessed this might be the best route, to have two plans of attack, but your confirmation makes me feel better about my prospects of avoiding the French Driving Lesson and Test route. I must be honest, the paperwork piles and hurtles I will be jumping are making me question my decision to live in France. I sure hope I don’t have rose-colored glasses on! Again, thank you.
So well written and relatable. Been living in France for 8 months and can relate to each of these experiences. The language is coming slowly and every little bit has helped. Beginning to get over the fear of being spoken to at the stores, cafes & bakeries. Often I just guess at the questions being asked now as I can pick up a word or two. If I get a confused look than I realize that I’ve guessed wrong & have given a strange response. All part of the learning experience! Really miss the feeling of wonder from those first weeks of wandering and taking it all in. Though I still feel like pinching myself often as it is just so beautiful and full of life being shared over a glass or plate of something delicious!
Thank you for sharing. Your comment about being in wonder at the beginning is so true. To new arrivals I would say to savor those emotions to the fullest; make notes in your journal so you can re-experience them later; take a photo of that little alleyway that will seem so mundane a year from now, but which at first appearance made you gasp. More profound pleasures come in time but the first encounter is a kind of rapture that you only have once!
Wow – I really enjoyed reading about your adventure! Mine was very similar, having moved from Canada to the Côte d’Azur 6 years ago as a retiree. It was all worth it and hubby and I couldn’t be happier. It really does get easier. I wish you all the best and look forward to reading more of your stories.
Hey Caryl,
Thank you for reading and commenting! I’m six months in and well, it’s a roller coaster, but I love living in Paris. Thank you for the best wishes.
We’ve applied for the VLS-TS and are developing and working on independent projects but don’t have a business license. We have more than enough assets to show proof of enough resources to cover all expenses during our trip, however. What do we supply instead of a letter from an employer or business license?
This is so good and so funny. I am considering moving to Paris for an expat assignment. As I walk around the city orienting myself, I’m having the same experience! Thanks for the laugh and reassurance that this is normal.
Congrats! One thing to note is that lease terms and rental laws are more favorable to renters in the case of unfurnished apartments. We landed in a furnished apartment, but may end up moving if we can find an unfurnished apartment that is comparable.
Thanks for the helpful information! We have our Certificat de Controle Medicale now but how to do we submit them to our local prefecture in Paris ? I’m not sure if it’s our arrondissement’s prefecture or the main one on cite. How do you make an appointment?
Hi Erin, you don’t need to submit your Certificat de Controle Medical to the prefecture at this point. Just hold on to it, and at the end of your first year in France when you go to renew your residence permit, then you will present it to the prefecture as part of that process.
Hi Luke, Thanks for getting back to me! We only have 10 days left in Paris so we feel like we are running out of time. We have a 6 month VLS-T (we didn’t realize we’d want to stay longer than 6 months when we applied) but we were still asked to the medical exam 3 weeks before our visa expired (we don’t have the two months that the visa renewal process asks for). I was under the impression that it was the wrong type of visa to be renewed in France since it’s not a VLS-TS. Our maybe we can use the same Certificat de Controle Medical to renew our next visa if we apply from the U.S. again this summer? Do you have any idea?
VLS-T –Long stay temporary visa
VLS-TS — Long-stay visa equivalent to a residence permit
In that case again I think there is nothing else you need to do with your Medical Certificate. Your visa is temporary and is coming to an end, so that is that. It does seem a bit silly you had to get a physical right before you’re leaving anyway, but no doubt that’s just an ironic side effect of the slow moving nature of things.
I can’t predict what will happen if you return a second time on a VLS-TS, but my guess is the bureaucracy will have you go through the same physical again. It would probably be for the best, since by the time you came up for renewal on your one-year visa your existing medical controle would be quite old and it would be a shame for a renewal to be denied on that basis.
I wish you good luck in getting the VLS-TS back in the States, and may the process go quickly! The good news is when you return you will be old hands at all this stuff.
Thanks Luke! You have really put me at ease. I totally agree with you about at least knowing what to expect next time. Fingers crossed that they don’t totally change the process in the meantime. Thanks for the Blog!
Why do you say the visitor visa isn’t a path to citizenship? If I renew it enough and get 5 years….
There’s no “five year,” I’m guessing you mean the ten year card. But a ten year card isn’t a path to citizenship. You need to be a tax-paying citizen and as a visitor you’re only a tax-filing citizen. I’m happy to be proven wrong but I don’t know anyone who has obtained citizenship on a visitor visa.
Thank you very much for your exhaustive answers and deep insight into the subject matter. Is this 10 year card renewable? If yes, for how many years? Does it mean permanent residency? Also, if one gets a 10 year card, can one go to any other Schengen country and stay there and try to get residency of that country by naturalisation? What are the options with “Visitor” visa to obtain permanent residency of France or any other Schengen country as thought above?
The ten-year card is renewable for a ten-year term, as many ten-year terms as you need. 🙂
I don’t believe there’s any such thing as “permanent residency” worldwide, as it always comes with stipulations, so how can it be called “permanent”? But it does provide long-term residency.
You cannot be eligible for naturalization in another EU country just by using your residence card from France. Anyone, including EU citizens, have to go through the same process as anyone else if they wish to gain nationality in another country.
The visitor visa is even more limited than the 10 year card (Carte de Resident) as it does not really envision your living outside of France ever, whereas the Carte de Resident explicitly permits it, up to three years within your ten year period.
Short story? If you want citizenship in another country, you cannot use a French residence card, even a nice fat ten year card, as the basis for it. The right to live and work in France does not give you the right to live and work in Germany. You’re thinking of EU citizenship, not EU residence.
Thank you for your detailed reply. When I was saying shift to another EU country, I didn’t mean work there. Let me ask it in a different way:
If I have 10 year card, can I go to another EU country, register myself there with police station and start staying there as financially independent person (Without working in that country), or digital nomad or under any other program allowed by that country? What I mean to say is, will I be treated like EU citizen/resident for various VISA programs in other EU countries?
Excuse me if I sound foolish.
Manish
The short answer is you apply for visas from whatever country you have residence in. So this card gives you status to apply in France for a work visa in Germany, for example. And yes, you can hold multiple statuses in multiple countries but that gets complicated quickly. I’ve held Swiss work permits while holding French visitor status but those were only 3 month Swiss permits each time.
An American client a couple years ago was in Germany on a work permit and he applied for a French PL visa from Germany because he had residence there. But having a French ten year card does not give you status in Germany such that you could apply for other visas from Germany, even should you choose to live in Berlin.
Unsolicited answer: if you have what it takes to get a French ten year card, you should immediately apply for citizenship after you receive it and wait it out. Then you don’t have to worry about what you mention…you can roam around Schengen to your heart’s content (but you’ll still need to be tax-domiciled somewhere).
I feel like you are interpreting the card to be a sub-passport (it’s not) when it’s really just a muscular French residence and work permit.
I can’t really help you if I don’t know what your long term plans are. If you want to schedule a consultation I’d be happy to help further. 😉
I have already sent my details. Yes I would like to schedule a consultation.
Hi John, I don’t have children so I can’t speak from personal experience. But you must certainly register their visas along with your own on the OFII website as described at the beginning of this article, and then you can see what instructions they give you with regards to medicals for the children.
My VLS-TS, long stay visa validation, was registered, and the fee paid on 27 March 2022. I have not yet received a text, email or letter from OFII for my medical visit. Is this an inordinate amount of time to wait for a notice, and if so, is there any individual or office that I can contact for clarification? I would like to begin the application process for a Carte de Séjour as soon as possible.
Thank you, Susan
Hi Susan, four months does seem like an excessive delay but then again this is France and it’s also summer.
I would certainly log into your OFII account and make sure a convocation letter might not have been attached to your request.
If not, you can try the “Nous Contacter” option at the top of the screen, “La validation de votre VLS-TS” for the drop-down “Votre question concerne,” and then fill out the rest of the form and hope for a reply.
Does anyone have any suggestions of bonafide european health insurance companies which offer affordable cover to meet minimum visitor visa requirements of 30,000 euros? I’ve come across various fake sites and all the real ones seem to cover up to 1000,000’s and charge a fortune!? Any suggestions very welcome! THanks
I consistently recommend Cigna Global, as coming from a reputable company, and one of the companies I first used almost a decade ago now when I came to France.
I’m in Marseille and I just received my convocation letter vis email. Yay!
I have two questions if anyone can help:
1. I did the immunization titre and I have immunity for everything except Hep B. Will that be an issue?
2. Regarding the maternity record, I’ve had three births. Last time I did this in exam 2016, the physician just asked me a bunch of questions about my births. Anyone know what exactly they need? And do you think it’s a problem if I don’t have records? I had kids quite a while ago: in 1986, 1990 and 1993.
Hi Regina, I never saw an official list of what vaccinations they wanted so I can’t say whether they will want Hep B or not. Just go with what you have and if they want you to get something else I’m sure they’ll tell you.
As for the information about maternity records, again I can’t say, and again I suspect the official requirements are nowhere posted, if they even exist. As usual bring as much information or documentation as you have and see how far it gets you.
I invite you to return and comment here with what your experience ends up being in the matter of vaccines and birth records, as the knowledge would be of great interest to others!
My appointment went fine – easy peasy. It was a year ago and my memory is fuzzy but I’m pretty sure the doc didn’t really didn’t ask me for anything except my chest X-ray. She asked if I was a smoker because the X-Ray showed some stuff in the lungs; I’m not but I had recovered from a mild COVID case a couple months beforehand so she chalked it up to that.
I got the impression that the whole thing was simply a formality and maybe an excuse to collect the 200€ fee but I can cynical that way.
Hello!
I have a rather urgent question pertaining to your article.
I will have been resident in France come August 1, 2022. My International License expired on June 30, 2022.
I need to rent a car and can see that I will need to get a French license however! my license is from Washington ( a non-reciprocating State. What can I do if done before August 1, 2022?? Would love your immediate reply as it is time sensitive!
Kindly,
Cristiaana
The question is though, if you have been residence in France for over a year, you do in fact need a French license to rent a car. Is that true or not?
Thank you for your reply!
But in reality, there’s no way for a private rental car company to know what your residence or immigration status is in France.
Hence why I’ve rented cars more than a dozen times since I’ve lived in France and only once have I been asked for an EDF when they realized I live in France.
I don’t see any practical way for a car rental company, who wants your money, to ask where you live, then how long you’ve lived there, then ask why you haven’t swapped your license. I’ve never been asked that question and I rented a car as recently as January.
Love that! However… since I’m renting long term from Leclerc here is what they require…
The credit card that was used for the reservation (in the name AND first name of the Tenant)
Your valid driving license (and accompanied by a sworn translation of less than 6 months in the case of an international license)
Your identity document or passport
A proof of address less than 3 months old.
Thoughts?
Cristiaana
I don’t see a single document on that list that has anything to do with how long you have been in France.
In fact, if you bring your passport instead of your carte de sejour you will have precisely zero immigration documents with you.
Thank you Stephen, what about the ‘accompanied by a sworn translation of less than 6 months in the case of an international license’ bit? Is that a big procedure or, how is that done?
Sorry to be dragging this out!
Cristiaana
Go get an official translation of your driver’s license. Not a big procedure. Just need to find an official translator near you or one who can do it online via a photo of your license.
Perfect! Thanks a million for working through all of this with me Stephen!
Thank you so much for the very helpful article.
I’m in France with a long stay visa, and hoping to switch it to Passport Talent as an artist. I considered about PL visa too, but if am allowed to apply for this at the prefecture while I’m in France (if I understood this article right ), it’d suit my situation. Now I’m wondering when is it possible to apply for it? Is it ok to do so more than 2 months before the current visitor visa expires?
You can’t switch to one of these visas right away from visitor. You need to renew once as a visitor, and then when your next renewal comes up you can apply for a change of status to either PL or Talent.
Remember you can always apply from a country in which you have residence, and since you live in France now and hold a renewable titre, there’s no question of having to go back to a home country to renew or change status.
Dear Mr Heiner,
For clarification from you response above —changing from a visitor visa to passport talent, can one do this right after getting the 1st visitor visa renewal, or does the person need to wait until @3-4months prior to the visitor ending?
The concern being if the passport talent visa application is rejected, then the applicant does not have a visitor visa to fall back on and must vacate France. Or does the rejected applicant reapply for their former visitor visa?
Thank you Sir.
You must have a sufficiently grave reason to renew early. The French administration thinks something to the effect of “why are you renewing early, this makes no sense…”
You’re going to apply for something called a “change of status” which means you’re asking for a visa change. In the slim chance your visa application is rejected (would only happen if you failed to prepare well) then the “change of status” would be rejected and you would be able to simply renew your current visa.
You do NOT wan electric. They grind what goes in to use normal-sized evacuation pipes. You need to be very careful or they get stuffed up. In any case they need to be changed every decade or so, and are expensive. They exist in buildings where normal toilet plumbing was never put in, or in an area where normal toilet plumbing was not planned for. To be avoided!
I understand they need to be avoided. But I also read they look like normal toilets. So how does one tell one from the other to avoid the electric toilet?
Yes, as far as the seat and the reservoir re concerned, there is no differene. First, you ask. Nobody has ever lied to me on the subject. If you are visiting the apartment, look near the floor behind the toilet. If it is a sanibroyeur, there will be an electric cord going into the wall.
Hi, continuing on with the proof of potential clients theme, it is a deal breaker if I don’t have any? I feel confident that I will find some, but as my business one that I am proposing to start once I get a visa and move to France, I don’t have any clients yet.
Thanks,
Tessa
The business needs to show some sort of base of viability out of France. It doesn’t mean that all of your clients need to come from there, it just makes it more palatable to the French if at least one client comes from there. Obviously, if you’re selling hats to Eskimos, that’s one thing, but most businesses should have the ability to be marketed to the French in some way.
I fully admit that my approach is a lot more conservative that what Stephen states.
This is the legal logic the French administration uses regarding this immigration.
“the applicant already has his/her clientele waiting in France, so he/she deserves the immigration visa to start working for these clients.”
So the goal is to “fake” a French clientele and this is where I get closer to Stephen’s statement.
My experience is that one submits this kind of visas after having being in France several times and know people there. All the business plans I help with include a section as a teacher and as a coach. There, French friends and acquaintances can state they need your teaching or coaching without even actually using your services once you are in France.
At the same time, and Stephen is totally on target, the business plan describes a panel of services fully tailored for a French clientele and therefore it should be possible to add emails exchanges, describing online conversations showing the pertinence of the project.
In short if the “French clientele” is not properly documented, there is zero chances of success. At the same, the said “French clientele” can feel 90% fake closer to a story board. as long as the story is believable it works!
Hi Jean/Stephen, your answers are really helpful especially as my situation will be similar, however my business will be aimed predominantly at English-speaking tourists rather than French clientele do you have any suggestions in this situation? Thanks in advance
I’ve helped someone who got approved for a business that offers fancy picnics in Paris to tourists. You have to realize that this is considered “French” not because you’re aiming it at French people, but that the business is actually doing commerce physically in France. It doesn’t matter to the French that these people don’t live here. Imagine if you could only start a business that French residents or citizens used!
Hope that helps.
There is a slight misunderstanding here. An American tourist in Paris is de facto a “French client” as he/she consumes the service/produit in France. This said it complicates a tad more the presentation of the clientele in the business plan but not that more.
So you will have a French business because you will have “French clients” using your “French services/products” while being American tourists staying in France for a short period of time. So think “French consumers”!!
Thanks both of you for your replies. Again very helpful, I guess though my main concern is similar to Tessa’s about how to provide supporting letters from this type of client – would letters of support from tourist offices and tourism businesses be a good alternative?
About the way to get the proper documentation to define the so-called “French clientele”, yes agencies are a possibility but probably not enough. To help you at this stage I need to dive in your project. I would check if the French merchants with whom you can have referral contracts, commission base agreements would just as good if not better and you make a mix of both.
That makes sense. This has clarified for me I need to focus more on building contacts and prospective collaborations as I’d overlooked this somewhat but can see this will make my plan much more viable. Thanks so much for the advice.
Thank you for this! Do you by any chance know whether the INSEE number comes together in the letter with the SIRET one? I’ve been told I will need it too when signing a contract to provide my freelancing services to a company. But I´ve been looking online and I’m not sure how one is supposed to get that one…
Hello Carlos! The INSEE number is your SIRET. That’s the only number you’ll need when working as a freelancer. You can put it at the bottom of your invoices so that whichever business you’re working with has it on file.
Hi there, so glad you found a great place in a great part of town. curious if you might be able to share how you were able to get your visa approved without having accommodation set up in advance? any info here would be super helpful as i’m nearing my application date! thank you so much!!!
You cannot get your visa approved without having accommodation set up in advance. It doesn’t have to be a one-year lease. I know the case of one gentleman who was approved with a hotel address.
Hi Nora! So auto-entrepreneur is not a visa status, while PL is. An auto-entreprise is a type of business similar to a sole proprietor in the US, and the PL visa enables you to open a business in France. The two are not directly related. I hope this helps!
Hi there! My husband and I are preparing to apply for a VLS in a year or so and your story is giving me hope! I work remotely like you and this is the first time I’ve heard that remote work for a U.S. employer is sanctioned for this type of visa – you haven’t had anyone tell you that this places your employer at risk of having to register in the country or adhere to French labor laws? Do you now pay French social charges/other taxes on your income from the U.S.? And lastly – my husband won’t be working but we were thinking of renting out part of our property sort of as a gite – I assume this would be precluded since it’s a “professional activity.” Do you think he should instead apply for a profession liberal visa? Thanks so much!
Hi Anna, for the purposes of the visitor visa there is no connection created between the foreign employer and the French system. French labor laws don’t apply to a foreign company that has no relation to France other than one of its employees just decided to live there. If your employer was doing business in France it would be a different matter, but then you would also be applying for a different visa.
As for taxes, as a resident of France you will have to declare your foreign income to the French government (we would say “file” in the US), but you will neither owe nor pay French income taxes. If you did owe or pay, that would imply doing business in France, which would violate the terms of your visitor visa. Of course you will also still need to file (and pay) federal income taxes in the US. As an American with foreign residency you will likely be able to take advantage of the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE) in the US tax code, which is something you should read about.
The full extent of tax ramifications can be complicated and vary from person to person, it is worth seeking out professional advice on both sides of the Atlantic.
I would advise you join the TAIP Facebook group to pose your question about wanting to rent your French property.
Just keep in mind if you plan on staying longer term or if your stay turns into long term residence & even nationality, working remotely on a long stay visitors visa will be a big hindrance to any longer term CDS or nationality being granted.
This type of toilet is called a “Sanibroyeur”. The question to ask is: En ce qui concerne la toilette, est-ce normal ou un sani-broyeur?” (Does the apartment have a normal toilet or a sanibroyeur?”
I was PACsd in Francé with my partner Oct 25 2022
We applied and have appointment with VFas global in Miami Nov 21 2022 to apply for long stay visa.
Has anyone gone this route ? What ought we to expect? Thanks
Depends on your Visa… With a Carte de séjour “Visiteur”, it’s a big no-no says our French/American accountant, whether or not you’re officially a French tax resident (i.e., to a 1st approximation, in France more than 180 days/year). Part of the application requires signing a document that says one won’t work. If your butt is in France, then you’re working in France. This is typically the visa = residency card that a ‘retired’ person applies for, annually, for 5 years, then can apply for a 10 year card which, ironically, permits one to work. Working on vacation doesn’t count because you’re not a resident.
While I would hesitate to correct a professional, especially someone who works with both France and the US, as I point out in the article, I’m relying on the French government’s actions, not an individual accountant’s advice, for my opinion on this matter. Given that the French government routinely approves visitor visas in which someone says they are working remotely, it seems that your “butt” theory doesn’t “sit” with them. 🙂
I also don’t accept your “doesn’t count” premise in which a visitor to France has more rights than a resident of France when it comes to work…
This is one thing that confuses me: can the consulates really have a completely erroneous understanding of the law to the degree that they consistently advise visa applicants that this is legal and above board? Surely not! If not, why do people consistently say that it is illegal? Their argument is that consulates aren’t on the same page as the tax authorities, but how on earth can that be? They’re government agencies, surely. It would be incredibly damaging to people’s futures to explicitly grant them the rght to do something which is actually illegal. It doesn’t really make sense.
There you are showing your Anglo-Saxon bias. Why “surely not?” Governments all around the world have instances in which agencies clash with each other. In the US the Federal law considers marijuana businesses illegal, meaning that any legal marijuana businesses cannot benefit from the legal tax deductions at the federal level, even though those businesses are legal at the state level.
I have been in France a little over a year and I have just received my residency permit. I am from the United States. I am wanting to start a concierge business. It is not a tour guide. It is just someone that will meet women at the airport, I’ll set them up an Airbnb and show them around town, my daughter is going to do the same thing in London although she still resides in the United States, the company is going to be in her name and no money will transfer to me. The money will not be commingling in any account. This is a way for her to earn money and for me to just get out and meet people and have a good time , I have been told that I will be kicked out of France and my visa will be revoked since I am not taking jobs away from the French. I am not making money here in France, I am just wanting to know what your thoughts are
While I don’t accept the “taking away jobs from the French” narrative, as the French would never do what you are proposing, this is not what I am talking about in this article, which is a remote job.
If you don’t have a visa classification that allows you to have a business doing what you’re proposing, you’re playing with fire.
If you want to get out and have a good time, volunteer:
You won’t get kicked out right away, insofar as there are no immigration police roaming around randomly asking Americans if they have started illegal businesses, but this is a bad idea if you plan to live long term in France. Keep it legal. What you’re proposing, by the terms of a visitor visa, isn’t.
PS The English are WAY stricter about this than the French are. It is a TERRIBLE idea for your daughter to be doing something like this in London under the radar. Register a business and make it legal!
Hi
I’m not sure when this article on meetups was first published here. I’d like to join a group for over 50 if there’s such a thing. Which do you take part or recommend?
Best,
Stephanie
I couldn’t find any literature in the French tax website that mentioned that visitors on a long-term visa didn’t have to pay taxes. Any help to point out to the source? Thanks!
Lucas there’s no source to point to because no one is saying that long-term visa holders “don’t have to pay taxes.”
Let me be clear, you must file taxes.
Whether you pay taxes is entirely due to your own situation.
Given that most people pay taxes on their income, if your income is not earned in France, it is reported, but not taxed, ostensibly because you’ve already been taxed for it in your home jurisdiction (and can prove it).
But some long-term visitors may own real estate in France and may indeed gain some money that way and yes, they would have to pay taxes.
Once again, the headline points to the reality: if you’re a fiscal resident of France you have to ***file*** taxes, period. Whether you ***pay*** taxes is an entirely personal issue, as everyone’s tax filings will be different.
I would like to follow up on your post.
Scenario: American living in France full-time (fiscal resident) with a Long-Term Visitor’s Visa and working as a 1099 independent contractor for a USA company (no French presence for company). As a 1099 contractor, no taxes are withheld from pay in USA. Would taxes be paid to French government and then claimed as foreign tax credit in USA? Or would taxes be paid to IRS and then reported on French income declaration? Thank you in advance.
I can’t give advice on your individual tax situation. I would defer to your accountant. If you don’t have one I’m happy to connect you with one.
The scenario you propose would invalidate your visitor visa as you are now asserting that you are “working in France” which is not permitted by your visitor visa.
I totally understand that personalized advice is a no-no. However, I am confused because I read that remote work IS allowed on visitor’s visa. Also read your above reply dated Feb 7th, which would indicate that the tax would be paid in USA.
Yes, remote work is allowed, but if you declare income in France from work, then you’ve now taken what is an acceptable practice, working remotely, being paid in another country, and creating a weird hybrid, working remotely, being paid in France.
To clarify, my position is: if you wish to work remotely, get paid in that country and file taxes in that country. You will still have to file taxes in France, in which you include your worldwide income, which will include your already-taxed-and-paid-for income from America.
I realize I am a little late to this party but I was wondering what the best way to obtain a long term French visa is. I am a 33 year old secondary school teacher who has a Master’s in education from an American University. My American dad has recently retired to France (Montpelier) with a retiree visa. And perhaps most important is my girlfriend lives in Rueil-Malmaison. I am thinking that I should try to get into a French intensive language program but they will not be accepting applications for sometime. Any suggestions you could give me on these topics would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Christopher, I would suggest that you wait it out and enroll in an intensive French language program. You could try to apply to a French university if you’re keen to go for another master’s degree or even your Ph.D., but you do need to have a B2 French level in order to be accepted into a public university as a foreigner. You could also try to do this through a public university without any language requirements, but it is a lot more expensive. That said in both of these situations you’ll have to wait to be able to enroll for the fall semester as well, or perhaps you could find a summer program. This may not be the answer you were hoping for but I hope this helps!
I’m hoping to move to France for under 12 months and work remotely for a UK org while I’m there. My employers are ok with it, and I’ve got no plans to extend my stay past the 9-12 months.
Everything I’ve read seems to indicate that I’ll either have to use a wage portage company or set up as a freelancer which would be a huge faff!
I’m excited to hear that the visitor visa actually seems fine – but do you have any sources for the French govt routinely approving these sorts of applications for visitor visas? It just contradicts everything else I’ve read so would love some more info!
Ellen the source is my unbroken line of remote-working, French visitor-visa-gaining clients since 2014. I’ve never had someone denied over this issue. Indeed, these people often explicitly declare they will be remote working.
Hi
were you successful in what you did and did you end up doing a French tax return? I am an EU citizen in France right now and have worked 4 months remotely. I am getting really panicked about having done something wrong and my employer being fined. Despite being in France under 183 days.
Please stop listening to the crazy people online. You are an EU citizen which means you have the right to live and work in France, remotely or otherwise. You are not someone who needs to be reading an article aimed at people who, unlike you, do not possess EU citizenship.
Hi Molli,
Thank you for this wonderful article, it’s been immensely helpful. I’m here on ‘Talent Passport Familie’ i.e my wife’s on Talent Passport and I’ve moved here as her dependant. The Visa allows me to work and undertake any professional activity. Can I setup an auto-entrepreneur business with this visa?
Thank you!
Hi Alvin! Thanks for reading. You can absolutely sign up to be an auto-entrepreneur with your VPF visa. I have worked with other clients in your exact situation and they didn’t run into any issues – you’re right, with your visa you’re allowed to work and undertake any professional activity.
Excellent article. I have had numerous battles on (nameless) FB groups over this issue. I have read of numerous people going to the consulate (in London in this case) applying for the auto-entrepreneur visa who have been told by consular staff that as their clients are all in the UK, they should apply for the visitor visa. They have been asked to write a clear letter stating their work is remote for a UK employer and that no money will be exchanged in France. One man queried this and it was referred higher up in the consulate – he then received an email the following day stating this was indeed fine and above board.
This is something I too would like to do. But I have a few concerns. My main concern is would there come a point where you are legally defined as a long-term resident, fulfilling what they consider “permanent establishment” rules, at which point you must begin to pay into the French system officially. Also, how does one go about accessing the health care system? Or do you continue to use annual health insurance instead? Have you – or anyone you know – ever come up against problems at the renewal stage of the visa process, as this is dealt with by individual prefectures rather than consulates, who often have wildly differing ways of doing/interpreting things?
I want to pursue this in the very near future but the fear of being slapped with a massive fine and deporation order frightens me, as I want France to become my permanent home! I wonder if, after five years of using a visiteur visa for remote work, I would gain permament residency and change my status to an auto-entrepreneur and start paying properly into the system. Sorry for the long post! I suppose my main question really is: this sounds fine and dandy for the first year or two but does it work long-term without complications down the line?
In a decade of helping people with this, I’ve never once had a visitor visa remote-working client come back and say they have been slapped with a massive fine or have been deported.
Nor have I ever had the people on forums (how brave they are, lol) who insist that this is “illegal” produce even one single case of someone being “deported” and “slapped with a huge fine” over this issue.
It’s fear-mongering, and I tried to deal with it in this article. I can’t say any more than I said.
You seemed to conclude that this was “fine” as a “temporary measure” but it’s not. You can do this for the rest of your life, because not everyone wants to start a French business (in fact, I generally advise against it, if one has a choice). After five years as a visitor, you can convert to a Carte de Resident, which allows you to start a business, work a job, whatever.
If it’s “fine and dandy” for the first year or two, it’s fine and dandy for the next twenty. I don’t give temporary advice here. 🙂
So people you know have applied for renewal at the prefecture year after year without problems? Your advice is very reassuring. It’s the “later down the line” issue that worries me, and you have reassured me. Do you happen to know if those people have accessed the health system after three months without a hitch? I presume they declare themselves “inactif” in France to do so, while each year declaring their foreign-sourced income on their French tax return.
When you say “access the French health care system” you make it sound like that’s difficult. As with the US, the French Health Care system is open to everyone. It’s a question of payment that is the issue. The French don’t care how you pay. They don’t refuse service if you don’t have insurance, just as they don’t in the US.
You can apply for “assurance etrangers” here in France, which gives you the same levels of treatment and the same costs that all of us who pay into the national system receive, all for around 450€ a year.
There’s an article on our site explaining how you can get access to the national system just by residency. I don’t know where you’re getting your advice from (declaring yourself “inactif”) but it’s wrong.
I am on my second year in France under a visiteur visa with a foreign source of income. I will say that at the end of my first year, when I went to renew my visa, I was asked to provide proof of health insurance covering this second year. This is the same request made when I first applied for the visa, and for which I purchased coverage through Cigna Global as described in this article: https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/09/14/how-to-get-a-long-term-stay-visitor-visa-vfs-and-covid-19-edition/
Having never obtained a Numéro Provisoire from the French health system, I purchased a second one-year policy through Cigna and the prefecture accepted that for the renewal of my visa. The Cigna policy is not exactly cheap, and I regretted having to buy it, especially as I am already paying a considerable amount for health insurance through my American employer. But it did satisfy the prefecture and my visa was renewed and that was the important thing.
I’ve never been clear personally whether enrolling in the French health system would equally satisfy the ongoing visa requirements? The insurance requirement for obtaining the visa in the first place lists certain conditions such as that it must cover the costs of repatriation, which I doubt the French insurance does. But maybe it is nevertheless true that Assurance Maladie would be accepted by the prefecture for visa requirements for years 2 and after?
Very interesting. The one question I have is that you mention “As long as your pay for a given remote employer is connected to your fiscal address in the US, you’re good to go.”
What is your fiscal address? Does that mean you must have a physical address (an owned or rented home) in another country (in my case the UK)? Or does it mean that your US/UK bank account must be registered to an address somewhere (perhaps a relative’s address) and the money enters that account before being transferred to France?
Don’t overcomplicate things. Here the author is just referring to some kind of address in the US. Because US citizens ALSO pay taxes even when they are fiscal residents of another country, the term “fiscal address” here probably also refers to the address she uses when filing taxes.
The French don’t care what money enters your bank account from where, as long as its not salary from a French company when you don’t possess the visa to receive such income.
That’s very interesting Luke. Can I ask how you satisfied the income requirement going forward? Did you show a tax return with the foregin income declared? Or bank statements?
So there is yet more proof that what is said so well on this site is correct – it is perfectly acceptable to work remotely for a foreign employer while on a visitor visa. If the prefecture actually looks at your pay stubs and know you are working and say that is absolutely fine, there is no problem.
I was wondering how it worked out for you tax wise- I’m a 1099 in the US and unsure what to do? Do you have an accountant you could recommend? I’m near tears because ppl keep telling me me and my husband are going to get a 90k euro fine for working here with a visitor visa.
Thank you so much for the info! Great article. Quick question: As a student on a student visa which allows work upto 964 hours per year, can I still work as an auto-entrepreneur (/register for it)?
Hi Maya, thanks for reading! Unfortunately, foreign students are not allowed to become auto-entrepreneurs. It wasn’t always the case (I was a student when I opened mine) but they have since changed the rules. If you try to apply with your student visa you will be rejected. I would suggest looking for a different type of work, as you’re correct you are allowed to work up to 964 hours per year. I have an article about different options that you can read here. I hope this helps!
I have one doubt regarding the “passeport talent – creation d’entreprise” title. Here (and in other places) I read that it is basically similar to the “profession liberale” with the added requirement of the 30,000€, however I see another significant difference. While for profession liberale I read -in the government’s websites, that it allows “vous installer comme professionnel libéral en France”, for passport talent I read that the company needs to be of type “commerciale, artisanale ou industrielle”. That would seem to exclude “profession liberale”-type of companies such as a software engineering consultancy. Is this indeed the case or am I misinterpreting something?
Hi Ernesto, thanks for reading! I specialize in the artist option for the passeport talent because as you can see the creation d’entreprise status is quite complicated! I don’t have an answer for you, but you can email me at mollisebrier@gmail.com and I can potentially connect you with an immigration lawyer who may be able to help.
I’ve been tracking a USPS global express package to France. I received notification that it was out for delivery this morning, then 12 hrs later tracking said “held at delivery depot/office”. It cleared customs 2 days ago at Roissy Chronopost international.
Input would be helpful. I’m not ready to start an inquiry w Chronopost, the courier for USPS in France.
Surprisingly good news; about 24 hours afters I received notice the package was out for delivery then followed by notice that it was being held—it was delivered. I used USPS Priority Express.
The charge was about $68 for a small box placed into a standard fee USPS padded envelope. Time promised was 3-5 business. Today is the 5th day so USPS and Chronopost Global came through once the package was in france.
I think you will be fine with proof of only 6 months. As the instructions indicate, you are free to provide a short letter on this topic if you want to explain your situation and you think you have something additional to say that would bolster your case.
But otherwise I think simply the proof of 6 months will be sufficient, it shows that you have a start, and it is understood that not everyone can have permanent long term arrangements made in advance.
Thank you for this great post!
You mentioned that it’s not possible to change one’s status from visitor to, say, PLV before 2 years have passed. Can you possibly share your reference about that?
Hello I have a friend in need of an attorney. He’s been trying to get back to the states since March of 2020. He is 75 yr old and I’m concerned about his health being stressed out. He has no money there. I beg of you to help him get home. He’s at the Charles De Gaullist airport immigration. He’s losing hope of ever getting home.
Thanks for this, I have just been accepted on a VLS-TS visa on this basis. When it comes to filing taxes, do you have a recommendation on a French accountant (yours perhaps!)? That would be hugely appreciated, thank you (even a direct message to my email if possible). Thank you!
Thanks for the very interesting discussion. My French wife & I are planning to move to Lyon in Aug 2023 for at least 12 months, assuming that I could remain employed and paid in Australia. We are now very unsure that this is possible. If anyone has any advice or insight it would be very appreciated.
I have a long stay visa and I planned to apply for citizenship through marriage.
As noted, there is no reason why you couldn’t continue to do this. There’s a lot of fear-mongering online, but it’s not substantiated by any evidence from people actually going through the process.
Does anyone know the steps that a US company will be responsible for if their remote employee works in France for over the 180 days? Will they need to file any special document/pay any fee?
As someone who has employees for my US company all over the world, I can think of no tax document I, as an employer, are responsible for. The IRS doesn’t really care where your employees live, only that they pay into SS if they are W-2.
Thank you so much for this article! I am very interested in pursuing this long term visitor visa and I believe I have a good chance that my boss will let me work remotely in France, but I do have one question. I’m guessing the answer is that there won’t be a problem, but I wanted to see if you have any more insight: is there any possibility for my American employer to face consequences of me working remotely? Like having to pay taxes in France, or have any penalty from the US government, or anything? I guess I want to be able to let my boss know that there is no risk for her to allow me to work remotely in France. I will of course still pay taxes in the state she has her business in.
Hi Erica, there are certainly considerations to take into account but no necessary punitive consequences of the type you describe. You can find all kinds of discussions online about such considerations that employers of foreign remote workers should take into account; the topic has obviously become very germane in recent years. A Google search will quickly give you a good idea, though very little in the way of concrete pronouncements since every case is different.
But practically and realistically speaking (as opposed to the list of theoretical legal possibilities), and particularly under the provisions of the Visiteur visa, there is nothing your employer needs to be concerned about other than your ability to do your job.
You mentioned that you would continue to pay state income taxes in the state where your employer is located – this will almost certainly not be necessary. Consult an accountant, but if you are no longer a resident of a state the usual outcome is that you no longer owe state income taxes to that state either. Eventually you will even want to ask your employer to quit withholding state income tax contributions from your paycheck, in order that you don’t have to file a state return to get that money back.
Thanks much for the information.
Lots of contradictory information. Even some French lawyers will say, yes, others no. Is there anything that is granularly specific/evidenced-based argument from the French consulate-embassy a law, something that one can point to other than anecdotes, for Long stay visitor visas regarding the ability to pursue US based remote work on the soil of France?
I can see this turning into an remote work visa de facto and the French stopping this as folks abuse the system? Maybe I am wrong. Opinions only.
Thank you for this article! It gives me hope, which other FB groups had previously squashed. My husband and I are U.S. citizens and plan to move to France next year. He will be fully retired. I am a travel advisor and work as an independent contractor (1099) under a host agency in the U.S. I earn commission from travel suppliers who pay the earned commission for booked travel to my host agency, who then pays me.
We have sufficient savings to show proof of funds so I don’t need the proof of income for visa purposes, but I would love to continue my work after the move to France if possible. But I was under the impression (from the Karens) that this wasn’t possible on the Long-Stay Visa. Based on your article, it appears I could continue my work??
In your situation, I think the easiest thing would be to show sufficient income for the two of you from savings, 401k, etc. Don’t complicate the issue by mentioning work, but do remember to include your already-taxed US income (which would include these earnings) in your French tax return.
Please do Not use this person. Got a feeling that it was heavy marketing appealing to dreamers and USA folks with naive sparkles in their eyes re: France. And yes that person did not earn their own visa/immigration based on merit—it was based on marriage to a native.
Her courses are a rip off and have factually inaccurate information.
Yes—another us -snake oil sell the French « « dream » salesperson.
There remains enormous lack of clarity on the ability to lawfully and legally work a la distance from a US based corporation on a long stay visitor visa.
Can someone kindly share case law and/or a statute from France that explicitly states this acceptable and permissible? This is huge grey zone and appears a bit suspect to work given the ‘butt test.’ Thank you
I use the website L’Officiel des Spectacles (www.offi.fr) to find classical music concerts in fabulous venues that are free; you can make a contribution to the sponsoring church if you would like, but it is not required for admission. This website has an enormous amount of information to help plan your Paris entertainment.
I arrived in France on January 26th. At the end of April, I sent the OFII a letter because I didn’t receive the convocation letter yet. They responded me a few days later (May 3rd) by email saying that they have received my letter, but the process was delayed because they were short staffed (un manque de personnel médical). It’s already July 2nd and I haven’t received anything. I still have time until I have to renew my one-year VTS-LT, but I’m starting to get nervous. Has anyone gone through the same situation? Is there anything else that can be done?
Hi Lucas, no, I don’t think there is anything else you can do at the moment. I understand your anxiety but I think you are in a good position and have no reason to worry yet. It sounds like you already took care of the online OFII registration process, which is the critical component in terms of YOUR responsibility. The fact that you received a response so quickly when you asked about the convocation would be very reassuring to me; it means there is someone at the other end of the line, they know what is going on, and they admit it is THEIR problem.
Although you can begin your visa renewal process as early as the end of September (4 months prior to your one year anniversary), you have until the end of November (2 months prior). So that’s still a good ways off and the medical is very likely to be completed by then.
Even in the unlikely event that you don’t have your medical certificate in time, you should still submit your renewal through the OFII site before the deadline and simply explain why you don’t have this document yet. I don’t think it will pose any issue with your ability to renew.
Hi, Molli. I realize your blog may be a couple years old, but I did have a question regarding student visa.
1). Does the French language program have to be a year long in order to qualify for long term student visa? Most I’m seeing are just over 12 weeks. If I were to apply to a 16 week language course, is it OK that I technically would not be a “student” for the remainder of the year?
Hi Melissa! Thanks for reading. You’ll have to find a program that runs for an entire year – meaning at least two semesters that are at least 12 weeks long. I hope this answers your question! If not I am available for consultations. Please reach out via mollisebrier@gmail.com to set something up.
Ugh. My visa appointment is Wednesday and my language course is only 4 months long. I have written a letter stating my intentions to apply for a master’s degree once applications open again, October 1, 2023. I have applied for a long stay student visa. Do you think there is any chance I will receive a non-temporary student visa (one that I could renew as a resident permit) in order to stay for a full year?
Hi Kathy, thanks for reading! As mentioned, in order to obtain the student visa, you’re required to be enrolled in a program that runs for an entire year: two semesters that are at least 12 weeks long. I hope this helps!
Thank so much for your insight Stephen! Have you heard of satisfying the income requirement during renewal with an employee contract rather paystubs? In my case, the position hasn’t started yet, but it’s time for me to renew my long stay visa.
Renewal is a different matter. Remember that renewal is not about “I could do this” but rather “I have been doing this” so they usually are looking at bank statements and French tax returns (if you’ve been there long enough to get one yet). It’s not like the original visa application where you were needing to prove income.
The shocking amount of incorrect information and steering customers to unnecessary expensive options is vile.
She wreaks of yet another hustler and huckster. Caveat emptor folks.
She’s yet another “immigration CONsultant” “expert”—including in their fetid ilk are unlicensed “jurists” who are not fully qualified lawyers/advocats—selling the EU fantasy with milk and rainbow yammer as they collect thousands for doing little to nothing.
Perhaps, Mr Heiner is spot on for a name and shame.
Thanks for your helpful post. I wonder if you have any insight about working remotely while on a working holiday visa?
My Company wish to continue to employ me, however on the advice of their (NZ) accountant they wish for me to contract to them, as they say I will no longer be a tax resident of NZ.
Their proposal is for me to continue to work for them as normal, but send invoices monthly for the work I complete. Would this then mean I am “working permanently” in France, despite no money exchanging hands in France?
I can’t seem to find anyone in this scenario for advice on how to proceed.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you so much for this article! I just had my OFII appointment and was worried that I hadn’t seen everyone that I should have. I got my ex-ray in Rouen then took the metro to the OFII office. It took less than 10 minutes, I was in and out. He didn’t look at my passport or anything other than a printout with my vaccinations. Done and dusted! Thanks for making me not so anxious!
Hello, how do we include children on those applications ? My wife and I plan on applying for one of those visas but I don’t see anything about child dependent ? Thank you!!
Hello! I’m an American living in France for a little over one year now. I’m here finishing my masters. I have been searching for a job in France but have been having some difficulty. So, I am wondering since I’m still on a student visa, can I “legally” work remotely in a part-time contract position with a US company?
Emily as I maintain in this article, you do not need special permission from any country to work remotely inside it unless that country has specific legislation regarding it in relation to immigration status. France has no such laws on the books.
Hello:
Bit of a problem, we sold our US house, and applied for long stay visa, but will not have an official US address, but a forwarding address to our property in France. Can I use my French address as the applicants address?
Thanks for reading, Sten. Using a French address as your current address on your visa application will likely pose a problem as the government will assume you currently live there. I would suggest asking a trusted friend or family member if you can use their address for visa purposes. I hope this helps!
Hi,
I’m an American living in Lyon for two years, probably will stay two more before returning to the US. I live with my partner (PACSed in France; married in US). I work for my US company in France.
I have not been filing taxes because I don’t want anything to impact my employer. I’m afraid if I file taxes in France, it will spur some sort of permanent establishment nightmare for my boss/company which I want to avoid.
Also, I cannot figure out how to file taxes in France! Is it online? Which forms should I use? Any help is appreciated. Do you have an accountant you can refer?
Your fears are unfounded and irrational, while putting yourself in a potential pickle if you want to keep living in France.
You have to file taxes every year. The French don’t have any ability to see where your income comes from, only that there is some “worldwide income” which goes into a single line item on your tax return. Nothing is going to happen to your employer. The French simply do not have the infrastructure in place to investigate this kind of thing. Not even the IRS does, and they are the most heavily-funded tax entity in the world!
My accountant is no longer taking new clients, but shoot us an email and we can send you some that we’ve researched but haven’t yet gotten feedback on.
Thank you! What about French social security? If my foreign employer that I work for online doesn’t know that I work in France and I want to keep it that way? What is the risk that URSSAF will contact my outside of France employer and oblige to pay social security tax for me?
How would URSSAF know you are working for a remote employer? Does everyone believe that the French have some cyber-snooping skills that even the US government doesn’t have? If they did, do you think, given all the troubles France has now, that they would be using resources to guess whether someone is working remotely, then to try to rough them up with cyber police?
I would like to see one case in French history in which URSSAF, led by some cyber squad or via private informants, has contacted an employer outside of France to trigger such a process.
TL;DR stop listening to Karens who get joy from telling people they can’t work remotely in France.
Hello ~
We are Americans having lived in France permanently for the last 18 years. We’ve always used our California licenses until they’ve expired over the years here without any problem. California doesn’t exchange with France so what can we do now to have a French license as we won’t be traveling back to CA anymore? We are 73 and 76 years old and have a perfect driving record here. Yet our insurance company now requires a French driver’s license; an American one won’t do. Groupama which has insured our cars for the last few decades here has now suggested that I go to the mairie to have “help”. What can they do for us, concretely, do you know? My husband cannot take the driving written test in French at 76! Can you suggest any solutions to our problem? Does being over 70 allow us to continue to drive with a perfect record without having a French license?
You can get the drivers test translated here it’s allowed
You can also take hour by hour courses , usually 4 hours should suffice at your experience level … it costs around 50 e an hour
Hope this helps !
Hello, I understand you, it was certainly heartbreaking to leave Paris, but this city has changed a lot, when I visit Paris it’s in tourist mode and I can’t imagine living there.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
To be honest, I did not find any law in this case.
And considering the length of the medical appointment, I may need to leave France and re-enter, I am very worried about this and I don’t know what to do?!
I don’t think you will have any problem. You have your visa pasted into your passport, that will permit you to leave and return. Your medical exam certificate is not used at customs, you will give it to the prefecture next year when you renew your titre de sejour.
Obviously as you have requested a French visa, it is expected you will be living in France. But you are certainly free to leave and return as you need. The medical exam has no bearing on that.
Hi Thank you for the helpful article. I have a VLS TS in which I registered online 8 months ago and paid the 200 euro fee. I am concerned I have not received my OFII medical app I have sent an email but with no reply from them and my VLS TS runs out in March.
Hi Lorraine, that is indeed annoying. Since you are renewing in March, you can already start the renewal process, and indeed I’d recommend you do so (you should start no earlier than 4 months prior to expiration, and no later than 2 months prior).
One of the things they will ask you provide as part of the renewal process is a copy of your medical certificate that you would have been given after the exam. Actually when I went through this process there wasn’t a specific place to upload this, but they wrote back and said I could have included it with a copy of my visa, which they also requested.
At any rate, the process is always a bit ill-thought-out as usual with French online procedures, but I would attach somewhere in this renewal process a brief note that explains your predicament and the reason why you do not have the medical paper (Certificat de Controle Medical). At least they will then know, and maybe they will even be able to do something about the appointment.
At the bottom of the page are a list of email addresses to inquire specifically about the Rendez Vous Santé, by region. If you had written someone else, you might try the email address for your area. It may go into yet another black hole, but it’s worth a try.
Keep us posted on what happens. But ultimately I believe if you notify Étrangers en France why you don’t have the certificat during your renewal application, they can’t hold you responsible for it.
Lovely article. I had a quick question for you. So when you were living your 5 years on you long-term visitors visa every year when you went to renew did you submit pay stubs? If for example you didn’t have pay stubs what other types of documents work as proof of funds?
Hi Christa. Great question. For my application, I always submitted as many documents as I could, and more than were required. My salary comes from the USA, so I would always submit my three previous pay stubs, along with an employment letter in French stating my monthly salary and that I am on a Contrat de Travail à Durée Indéterminée (CDI), meaning that I have a permanent job contract. I also submitted my avis d’impôts sur les revenus (tax returns) for the previous year.
For my wife’s application, since she doesn’t work outside of the home, I supplied the above documents along with an attestation de prise en charge, which states that I cover her living expenses with my salary.
Hi, I’m a British citizen hoping to move to France and work there for a little while as I studied French at university and want to improve my language skills even more. However, because we have now left the EU, it is very difficult finding employers willing to sponsor a work visa. Unrelated to the job search in France, I have just started a completely remote role teaching English as a foreign language to earn some more money. It is a freelance contract with a language school based in France. I am wondering if I could potentially go to France for a few months and carry on this remote role there as my job. But the fact that it is a French company makes me think not. Do you know anything abut this or have any advice?
As we stated in the article, a remote job means you can work anywhere. As long as the French employer is paying your UK company/bank account, and you pay your taxes appropriately, you don’t need to worry, whether you are here on a short 3-month stay or on a long stay visitor visa.
It’s a remote job. Try to disconnect yourself from the assumptions around a regular in-person job.
I need to renew my ten year residency card. I am not in France and would like to know if I can start the process and send the documents online. My card expires in two months … March 19,2024. Or do I need to go to the prefecture in France. I do not live full time in France but would like to keep my resident card in the event I move back to France one day. I am an American citizen
Hi Sheila. The renewal process requires a justificatif de domicile (proof of your residency at an address in France, typically shown through an electric bill in your name). Do you currently own or rent a place in France? If so, I would absolutely try to start the process online as you need to apply for renewal within two months of your current card expiring.
Stephen, or others, may have more insights to share as well.
Hi Chris, I’m American and received my ten-year residency card here two years ago in Montpellier where I had to go to Prefecture for the application process. It took six months until I received the card.
My question: where exactly could I find the clause about being able to live in “certain states” in EU beyond 90 days without needing a long-stay visa from that state? Appreciate your help. Thanks in advance.
Judy
Hi Judy. Follow this link and select the first drop down menu (What does the EU long-term residency card allow?). The third paragraph will show you which Member States of the EU allow a stay longer than 3 months.
Hi Stephen, thanks for this article. I am an American living in France and have a quick question. I am a resident here, and have been working for a French company with a CDI. If I took a job with an American company, working remotely in France, but still want to have the benefits of French system (cotisation for retirement, health benefits, mutuelle etc) is that possible? Can I do that by paying taxes in the US or in France? If so. How do I pay taxes in France on a US income? Thanks in advance!
Thank you very much for this! All very informative, and helped to answer some of our burning questions about the possibilities of staying and establishing residency.
Wow! It felt like you wrote my story about how I came to live in Paris as an au pair. Now, many decades later, I want to live there permanently. Looking forward to part two.
I was wondering which line item would be the one you are referring to for “worldwide income”. I see multiple that I could imagine it referring to. Namely:
1. Salaires perçus par les non-résidents et salaires de source
étrangère avec crédit d’impôt égal à l’impôt français
Did you ever find out an answer to to this question/were able to find an accountant who could help? Any insight would be greatly appreciated as I do not have an accountant yet!
Hello Stephen,
I am in the process of applying for the Long-stay visitor visa now. I am from the US, working for a US company on a W-2, and I would like to live and work in France. There is so much fear mongering that I have had some serious doubts admitting this in my application. Reading your article is reassuring.
My question is, in my cover letter, do I mention wanting to take the year to figure out if and where I’d like to live in France? Do I mention that I will be working remotely for a US company? I have a letter from them if I choose to use it.
I am hoping to stay in France for the 5 years and get permanent residency. However, I’m so used to the US, where you don’t dare admit you want to stay in the country, and I’m wondering what tactic to take / how honest I should be. Or if less is more? Any advice would be very helpful!
Yes, you will show your letter from your company as your “proof of income.”
I’m a bit confused by your comments, so let me try to correct a couple of your premises:
“where in the US, you don’t dare admit you want to stay in the country.” Given that you’ve never been an immigrant to the US, I don’t know why you would think this. If you speak with any green-card-holding immigrant you would find out that you very much need to state you want to stay, and in fact, once you get a green card, as long as you hold it, you can’t be absent from the country more than six months at a time.
As for France, you’re applying for a renewable one-year visa. You’re telling the French that you’re willing to leave your home country behind and live with them for a year and possibly renew at the end of it. In what scenario are you supposed to pretend to them that you aren’t considering living in France long-term? Why would they be offended/worried about this? Some people have stayed on this visa classification for a decade or longer.
However, you cannot tell them you’re going to take a year to figure out where to live in France simply because you have to register with a specific address, where you are going to do your OFII visit. This isn’t America where you can just wander around. You’re an immigrant and once you’ve gotten the hang of things after your first year, and you can secure an address where you can get mail and show up again for your renewal appointment the following year, feel free to “wander around,” as you’ll know the ropes by then. But let me be the first to tell you if you haven’t been told, wandering around “figuring out your life in France” is not a possibility for a first-time never-lived-in-France-before person, on the paperwork level or even on the practical level.
Wow; where should we begine with that individual. Sold such wrong info, purposely selling nonsense services and no follow up; just a shoulder shurgs. She did not earn a visa-residency whatever; she married into it. No real experience whatsoever. I fell for it too. A scumbag giving such bad information so she can charge over FOUR thousand euros …for what? Yes, another immigration con sultant service provider. She needs to be put out of business. Thank you.
This is a fantastic article, and I wanted to know if you had any expertise in a particular wrinkle to the above information:
My spouse is a diplomat with the US Department of State. We’re about to PCS (permanent change of station) to France for 3 years for her next assignment. She’ll be working in the embassy.
I am currently employed as a W2’d salaried employee with a US technology company, and I want to work remotely. I’m fairly confident and unworried about my personal situation and personal liability; I know that there’s a bi-lateral work agreement with France, I know I don’t need a work visa, etc.
My employer is naturally concerned about whether they’re opening themselves up to liabilities by not having established an operating or legal entity in France, and whether employing me regardless of my tax/visa liability (or lack thereof) is a risk to them.
Thus far, my searching online has only indicated that this is a terminally grey area, with no clearly established guidance or laws anywhere.
Do you have anything to add to the conversation? Your perspective is invaluable. Thank you!
As you indicated, this is terminally grey. If your employer is terminally nervous about it, they are likely just unfamiliar with the laws regarding remote work worldwide. Ask them to provide cases in which a person working remotely in another country has tax reporting requirements in that country. Then ask them to find that for France. 🙂
In my experience, if the employer is too nervous, they will simply say, “no” to the employee, and for others, they will say, let’s see where it goes.
Accountants and lawyers, terminal rule followers, are even afraid of rules they can’t see. Hazard of the profession, and it serves them well, I’m sure, but it just doesn’t apply here.
I’m extremely familiar with US law regarding naming and shaming. I am not so familiar with French law on this. But the Xs correspond to the exact number of letters in the person’s first and last name and a number of people have connected the dots in the comments, as you’ll see. It’s a very small “help people moving to France” world.
Hi Stephen,
Thank your for this article. I’m considering moving to France this spring with my spouse, who is French. I’m applying for the family/spouse visa and wondering if in this situation you believe it would be possible to continue to work remotely for my current, US-based employer without them having to go through an EOR or setting up as an enterprise without establishment in France? Or is this something specifically for people with Visitor visa status?
The vie privee visa is very privileged, granting you the ability to work in France once you get it. You shouldn’t have any worry about continuing your remote work for a US employer.
Hi Chris, thanks for your article! I’m wondering if you know whether it’s possible to apply for the 10 year card if you are not due for a renewal. I’m on a 4 year card, but only 1.5 years of the way through, but I’ve been here for over 5 years (2 years on a visitor visa, before changing to profession liberale for 3 years). Do I have to wait another 2.5 years until my renewal comes up or can I ask now, and if so how can I make the appointment (I’m based in Paris)?
Hi Claire, thanks for your question. Typically, you have to wait until your current card is up for renewal before request a new one. You should have a sufficiently grave and compelling reason to make the request early. For example, the 10-year card allows you to be off French soil for 3 years, so if you happen to have a terminally ill family member back home with whom you want to spend as much time as possible, the prefecture may consider your request. If you have such a reason, I would encourage you to reach out to your local prefecture to see if they can guide you further before going through the application process.
Hi Chris,
Thank you so much for this informative article and for taking the time to respond to questions.
Re: requesting a new card before the impending expiry of the old one.
I have been living in France for 6 1/2 years and SHOULD have applied for a 10 year resident card last time around instead of a 5 year one, but didn’t know about it.
I may have to go to another EU country for up to a year with my husband (an EU national living in France), and as far as I can tell, the 10 year card would permit me to do this.
I’ve tried to contact the prefecture (in Nice, via email) about an early renewal, and how to go about it, but I get no response.
Is the reason for my request not “sufficiently grave or compelling”?, as you wrote in your response to Claire in March.
Should I email again with a more grave and compelling reason?
Much obliged and with lots of appreciation,
Selina
My apologies for the slow response. The “sufficiently grave or compelling” argument will undoubtedly be interpreted subjectively. You can try to email again, because it doesn’t hurt to make the attempt but in my experience there’s no guarantee of a response. I’m not an immigration specialist, but I do wonder how favorable they would be to move up your appointment, given that the reason you are trying to move it up would be to move, albeit temporarily, to another EU country.
Thank you so much for all of this detailed information! I’m helping my mom through this process, but we are totally stumped because the online application does not offer the visitor option.
Hi Jourdie, you’re at the right website. The question may be couched as “what are your plans” or “I request a visa for the following purpose” but either way there will be a list of options to choose from, one of which will be “Private stay/visitor.” (If you are trying to do it in French, it will be something like “Etablissement privé/Visiteur”). Other options will be things like employment, studies, training, marriage, etc…
The way it’s phrased doesn’t make it sound that important, but indeed that is where your Visitor visa type is determined.
When I filled it out, there was also a question about “Visa Type Requested,” which is where you’d think you’d see the Visitor option, but this one is asking about length of stay (you want to select the option for more than one year to get the long stay visa).
Box 23 is where the visitor status is shown. You should still go through the online process, it will generate the paper form for you, but I mention it so you can see it really is there.
This is quite intriguing. I found the paper form as well, but it does not match the options proposed by the online application for her. Only “business, family or private settlement, family or private settlement (minor), other” are offered, all of which require supporting documentation that she does not have (ofii reunification form, volunteer contract, etc). Well, your reply at least confirms that this is something of any anomaly, so that’s a start! Thank you.
Hi Jourdie, I created an account to see if I could replicate what you’re seeing. On the first page of the application, I see four sections in this order: Your Situation, Your Stay, Your Travel Document, and Your Plans. Under this last, the question is asked “Why are you making this trip?” with a drop-down of choices. The first four are as you have described, but note that you if you *scroll down* within that option list, you will see further options after “other” – or anyway, I see a further half dozen options, and the very last one is “Visitor.” Let us know if that works for you!
Hello again,
Sadly, my mom is not that tech un-savvy after all. The four options I listed are the only ones available to her. It may be related to the fact that she received a visitor’s visa last year, but was unable to renew it due to having to be in the States during the window for that. The consulate said she could apply for a new visa, but perhaps the options for what type are limited after if you don’t turn a visitor visa into a titre de sejour.
Thanks for the effort though!
That is indeed confusing. I should think it would always be possible to apply once more for a new visa, from the very beginning. Maybe you will need to create a new account with france-visas.gouv rather than trying to log in with your old one. It is also possible to delete your account first within france-visas, as I did this with my test account. At any rate this is not a situation I am knowledgeable about, but please keep trying, and if you discover the solution, it would be of interest to others if you post it here. Bon courage!
Strange indeed. She did create a new account, but there again strange problems arose. She cannot log in with the new account, for reasons unknown, only the old one. I will suggest she delete both and try starting fresh. I’ll let you know what we uncover; thanks for the support!
Thank you for your article, it helps a lot. Currently I have completed my 5 years in France. My visa renewal will be in June, I have already received a date for my visa renewal as a 1 year extension. Because I was able to get an exam date in May. Can I apply for a 10-year residence permit immediately after receiving my 1-year extension, or do I have to wait for next year’s appointment? I would be very grateful if you could advise me on this matter.
If you have already completed five years, you are eligible to apply for a ten year card now. You should change your visa appointment to be for the ten year card instead.
If you mean that you will complete your five years by June, then yes, you can apply one year from June when the one year-renewal comes up.
Thank you for your answer, yes, but I need to pass the A2 delf test to get 10 year card , but the test date does not meet my titre renewal appointment date. For this reason, do I have to wait for my next appointment in 2025 to get 10 years? Or can I request a 10-year extension before that appointment, Before 2025? Thank you
Thank you for the information in the post.
When one is completing the CPAM health cerfa form with a visitor long stay visa, if they are working remotely for a US based, US sourced income job, should they indicate on that form, that they are not working in France? Section B has “professional employment section”. It our undestanding that “working in France” means French company, organization, etc. not a US income remote worker job. Therefore, one is not working in France? Or should the “other” category be ticked with an explanation of remote worker US based job.
Thank you.
when the French bureaucracy refer to “professional employment” they mean in France where you pay taxes. As I’ve noted elsewhere, this may one day be clarified in law, with tax consequences, but the general rule is don’t give the French more than they are asking for. “Not working in France” is the answer. Please don’t tick other.
We did get your earlier comment, but we don’t work weekends here. This is a French-based blog, after all 🙂
Oh boy, I will die laughing and also of shame if this is the answer. I’ve been helping her with this over Zoom from a distance, which is not very hands on. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if you have found the solution. Will keep you posted. *silent facepalm*
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for the article. a EU employer wants to hire me. I’m already in France with a “Passport talent Salarié Qualifié” Card. Affter some research and because the employer does not have a branch here , he will go with The Foreign Firm Slip (TFE) system (https://www.tfe.urssaf.fr/portail/en/accueil/s-informer-sur-offre-de-service/essentiel-du-tfe.html).
The remaining question is that , will I be able to renew my residency card with that system?
Don’t know if you have the answer.
Regards
Your situation is not one that I’m familiar with, so I had to bring in reinforcements in the person of Jean Taquet. Here are his thoughts:
As weird as it may sound at first it is possible that this person keeps the same carte de séjour and if not then it will be an employee immigration status which will need to be defined by the details of the position.
I am calling this set-up le salarié en France d’un employeur étranger.
So regardless of the nationality of the employee, URSSAF considers rightfully this person as a French employee as having a French labor contract, of a foreign employer since indeed this employer has zero representation in France that can act as an employer.
This is the French text that introduces this set-up
Le Titre firmes étrangères (TFE) est un dispositif du réseau des Urssaf destiné à simplifier les formalités sociales liées à l’emploi de salariés par des entreprises sans établissement en France. Cette offre de service gratuite est gérée par le centre national Titre firmes étrangères.
Since this person already has this passeport talent status what is left is the salary to be able to renew it.
If the position makes sense and is compatible with this scheme then this is the legal way to do it.
Normally this should a marketing, representation, liaison, servicing the clientele type of position.
As I said the only thing left to check is the salary/compensation.
Otherwise it is the normal carte de séjour “salarié”
Thank you for your answer. The new contract will satify all the criteria for that passport Talent, the only remaining uncertainty was the renewal of the card. I’ve also emailed “the prefecture” for confirmation but still wainting for their reply.
Hi Oumar,
As I have noticed your question almost one year later, I guess you have found a solution. Just for your information, some companies propose assistance for the foreign company to use URSSAF TFE services. This is useful to solve some questions like the one you had. https://yourpayrollfairco.com/
Hey there,
I have a question in regards to Proof of enough resources to cover all expenses during trip. How do I know what the minimum requirements are ? Also do the minimum requirements in the back account need to be a solid amount untouched or can it be monthly pay stubs covering the total amount over the year? Thank you.
Hi Erik, you should be able to show an income at least equal to the French minimum wage, which in 2024 is about 21,000 euros. You are not required to have this in savings, proof of income is accepted. I can’t remember exactly but I believe I was asked to provide something like the last 9 months of paystubs. Of course if you have any savings, it won’t hurt anything to show that as well.
Hi there. Great article. I was recently told by a French tax agent that assists Americans that I could work on a 1099. He mentioned I’d be paying my taxes on this income in America as it’s for an American company hiring me for a small side gig and not money I made in France by a French company. They did say that if I’m making a regular salary that would be different. They said I wouldn’t be paying taxes on my 1099 income in France just America even though I need to report worldwide income. Currently I’m not planning to work at all but it is certainly confusing what one can and can’t do and worrying if I’ll get kicked out or not. Like you said digital Karens warn you’ll be removed. Others say the tax and immigration don’t speak and I’m not working for a French company so I’ll be fine?
I completely get it. I was just cussed out by a hand holder that said I was wrong. She was right….and she’s the professional, not me. She told me the tax person I spoke to was incorrect on filing taxes.
Hi, thank you so much. My Americam coworker registered as an autoentrepreneur and got invoices of more than 500€. Is this maybe the case for Americans? For me it was free.
Hi Sarah, thanks for reading! Your colleague shouldn’t have received a bill for signing up to be an auto-entrepreneur. People sometimes receive spam mail after signing up which could explain it. I would suggest contacing URSSAF to check.
Hi Molli, I am on an APS visa in Paris and a Paris-based company wants me to have a freelance contract with me as they have projects they’d like me to work on. When I chose my APS visa, it was on the premise of a CDD/CDI but this has been challenging and this freelance contract was offered sooner. I would like to do this freelance work. And I’ve seen that you said I can do this via APS visa which is what I have now. My questions:
1. Do I still need to submit a “business plan” for this (since I did not initially submit one) ?
2. Can I sign the freelance contract immediately after signing up with CFE to be an auto-entrepreneur?
3. And after the expiry of the APS visa, is there any way I can continue staying in France as an auto-entrepreneur?
MERCI BCP FOR YOUR ANSWERS. YOURE A TRUE LIFE SAVER. GOD BLESS YOU.
Hi Daisy, thanks for following up! I think you may be mixing up the auto-entrepreneur tax status with the profession libérale visa – they aren’t the same. You don’t need to have a business plan to become an auto-entrepreneur, and you’re free to sign freelance contracts as you like once you are one. As far as staying in France after your APS as an auto-entrepreneur, you’d likely have to pursue the profession libérale visa. There’s a lot of confusion out there on this but the auto-entrepreneur is a tax status and not a visa.
If you need more help please fill out our contact form so that I can connect you with someone for a paid consulation 🙂
If I get my profession libérale visa and whilst I am in France, someone wants to employee me as a salaried worker, is this allowed ? Or do I have to change visa status ? And if so, is that process difficult ?
You need to understand that in order to hire a foreigner the employer is going to have to pay a 10k euro bounty and then a 25% tax on your salary every month forever. You are highly unlikely to be hired in France unless you possess a particular set of skills or a certification that is rare in Europe.
A PL visa is not an employment visa. It is a freelancer visa, allowing you to work as a contractor with an annual income cap. If you want to get a job, pursue that, not a PL visa.
In the unlikely event you would get hired for a job while already in possession of a PL visa, yes you’ll need a visa and someone at that company will probably help you with all those details. What they probably can’t help you with is the shut down of your PL business and all the fun paperwork that goes along with that.
Hi Gracie. Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I have a question regarding transferring from VLS-TS to the VPF when PACSed. I understand the need to show 12 months of common life in France, and you mentioned “(though you can begin the process before those 12 months are up)”…do you have any more clarity around that?
My common life with my PACS partner in France started when my VLS-TS started in September 2023, so I won’t have 12 months of common life until the VLS-TS expires in Sept 2024…at which point I hope I will get the VPF!!
Do you have any knowledge of how that would work if, for example, I apply for VPF in June (3 months before VLS-TS expires). I would technically have only 9 months of common life documents to show at that point. I have documentation (a letter from my partner) from my VLS-TS application that I would be living with him for the duration of VLS-TS visa?
..I guess my *appointment* would not be in June, but still the appointment would be before the 12 months is up.
Curious if you have any more insight on this tricky timeline I am dealing with! Thank you in advance! And hopefully what I wrote makes sense!
Thanks for reading…my advice is to time the appointment for the VPF visa as close to 12 months as you can, and bring the documentation showing all the time you’ve lived together, including the lettre d’hebergement you mentioned from your partner that you’ll be staying with him for the duration of your VLT-TS.
I’ve heard of other couples applying for the VPF with less than 12 months of documentation, although I would always air on the side of caution at the prefecture and not assume they will be generous about you bending the rules and applying with only 9 months.
Hi Grace, thank you so much for sharing your experience. I have a related question on the timelines and PACs in order to apply for the VPF. I’d greatly appreciate any insight you have!
First, is having PACs (or being married) the only avenue for applying for the VPF? Or am I permitted to apply after 12 months of communal life (shared bills, etc) on the VLS-TS?
Second, my understanding was that you had to be living together for 6 months before getting PACS. If that is true, plus 12 months of being PACS, would that mean the earliest you can apply for a change of status to VPF would be the second VLS-TS renewal (18-24 months after initial VLS-TS)?
Hi Hannah, jumping in here! To answer your questions, yes, you must be PACS’d or married to obtain the VPF visa. I’m not sure who told you that you need to be living together for 6 months before getting PACS’d as that is not true — in fact, you don’t even need to be living together in order to be PACS’d! That said, you’re correct, you do need to show at least 12 months proof of communal life if you hope to get the VPF via a PACS. I hope this makes sense!
Thank you SO much, Molli! I have one followup question if you’re able: if I am currently on a VLS-TS Visitor, do you know if I can change to VLS-TS VPF at any time, or do I have to wait until the annual visa renewal process (assuming I do already have 12 months of communal life)?
Of course! You can change your visa status up to 4 months before the expiration of your current visa. I hope this helps!
Hi Molli. I have these questions regarding PL and auto-entrep visas.
1. In applying for a PL visa, do I need to prove that I already have the 12 months’ worth of funds required (SMIC 1,700 x 12 months = 21,000 euros) ? Or do I just need to provide proof of my freelance contracts and/or monthly payslips that I receive equal or more than the french minimum wage?
2. Social Charges – is this the only fee we have to pay when we are doing Auto-entrepreneur? Or is there another website where we pay for the taxes?
3. For PL visa – do we pay the social charges the same way as when we were doing Auto-entrepreneur?
Hi Maine, as a note, “auto-entrepreneur” is a tax status while PL is a visa. If you have more questions about the PL visa I would be happy to connect you with someone who can consult with you on it. I’ll email you 🙂
I need to file my first French tax filing. I am a remote worker with a VLS TS and all income is derived in the US. The French accountant that I spoke with directed me to go to the URSSF site and register my business. Based upon my research and in no small part the guidance from this website I believe this to be faulty advice.
I would appreciate a referral to a French accountant who can assist and help me with filing and who understands the concept of a remote worker. Thank you!
I was on the aps visa in france but I’ve applied to be on the visitor visa due to not being able to find a job. As such, do I need to file a French tax return (I’ve never have before) and where do I go to file it, and do I just write that I’ve made 0 euros?
Thank you for the help in advance
This is a wonderful article. Although I am not a US citizen I believe the process for freelancers is the same for everyone. I do have a few questions though
1. I currently have APS status that is valid till Jan 2025 and I have the option to renew it once more. Can I just renew my APS or will I be required to change my visa to something else?
2. If in the future I move to a CDI contract can I close the SIRET that will be in my name or will it become redundant?
3. Is there a minium earnings requirement to obtain a Talent passport?
1. You can simply renew if you have that option.
2. If you get a CDI you should close your SIRET.
3. It depends if you want to go for the freelance option or the salaried option.
In case I decide to continue with the Freelance option, what visa types can I apply for? From what I see on the internet there is only an option for Long stay visa which needs to be renewed every year.
If you want to go the freelance route, your option would be the profession libérale visa. As a note, 99% of visas to live in France need to be renewed each year, so I’m not sure where you got the idea that there were some that don’t require you to do that.
Hi there.. May I seek some unofficial advice from you on my siutation: I am on a long-stay visiteur visa and work online/remotely for a HK employer. However, I am having challenges with the money being transferred to my current account in India (my nationality). Can I receive money in my French bank account? Do I need to “declare” any income or pay any taxes? Or should I open an offshore EU account and get the money into it? I really need to get my pay coming into EU instead of India.
Note: I do hope to convert into a self-employed/entrepreneurial visa the next time I travel to India in 8 months time. At the moment, visa changes not allowed within France.
Thank you in advance for your advice.
I don’t know what you mean by “visa changes are not allowed in France.”
You can receive money into your French bank account, but make sure it comes from you, not directly from your employer, especially if you are on a visitor visa. Send the money from your Indian bank account, once you are paid, to your French account. If your Indian account doesn’t have that capability, use a service like Wise.
The discussion here seems to center on those working for US businesses. What about a freelancer writing/editing/kindle publishing/teaching/tutoring with many small private (non-French) clients?
I would be very happy if I could do this on a renewable long stay viseteur visa and move through residency to eventual citizenship that way. Is this possible?
I have not yet heard of a case of a visitor getting citizenship. This is because one of the most crucial documents to your citizenship dossier is your tax statements, and as a visitor you wouldn’t be paying taxes and hence “contributing” to the French state. If you know of such a case, please share, but I’ve not yet heard of it.
As to your US business discussion, I suppose you are asking about non-US businesses…but you need to house that income somewhere, and pay taxes on it, ostensibly. So, not sure what your question is. Whether you get your income from a US company as an employee or from a Thai corporation that you own, you can still do that remote work in France.
Stephen- your intial article, as well as this Q&A have been so enlightening! Your last post, however, threw me for a bit of a loop.
I may have missed it, but I don’t recall seeing previously that there an impediment to an American applying for French citizenship after 5 years on a VLS-TS just because I would have been working remotely for a US company… or just because I may not have paid taxes here. I think I must be misunderstanding or missing something. (Side note: I was only planning to work remotely for the first year or two, then retiring at about 65 while remaining in France.)
While I certainly wouldn’t turn down one of your very informative specific responses, I also be happy if you would just link me to an article that might cover this information already.
I can tell you with 100% certitude, that if you cannot prove that your financial resources come primarily from France, and that you pay taxes on those resources in France, you will be refused French nationality. I’ve seen it in more than one case myself. There are even starting to be difficulties for some getting a ten-year carte de resident under these conditions.
All you can prove with a remote job is that you’re a long-term visitor with income from abroad, not someone who has made his life in France, making money in France. This is how the French think about things, no matter how you may see them.
Indeed, the French are only making obtaining nationality harder these days, as they are upgrading to B2 DELF soon as a language requirement.
The way around this? Marry a Frenchie, and you only have to prove a valid marriage, nothing else. 🙂
There’s no “article” from the French on this. You may have discovered by now that they aren’t focused on informing you about the immigration or nationality process. There’s not a single article from them, for example, about your needing to file taxes while here on a long-term stay visa. Pretty important, no?
This entire blog project is built from blood, sweat, and immigration tears. If you plan on obtaining citizenship via the visitor path, I’m sorry to tell you you’ve either been misled or have failed to do your research.
PS Feel free to retire in France. You don’t need citizenship to do that, nor are the French going to give that to you just because you decided to retire here.
Hi Chris, Thank you so much for your article. I am currently a US citizen married to a French Citizen. We got married in the US and have lived together since. (I have my Livret de famille for 8 years). My husband has registered as a French Person Living abroad. We are now moving to France together and I am seeking a 10 Year CDS as my first residence permit. Is this possible to get with my situation (As I understand the time we lived together in the US may count towards the 5 year requirement for nationality) and also which visa do I need to request before leaving the US to France? Thank you in advance for your help.
Hi Ingrid,
Your question is outside of my expertise, as I can only speak to applying for a long-term residency card from the perspective of having spent five years on French soil. I will see if any of our other writers have any insights. Sorry, I’m not of greater help.
I had a question on my situation and hope you can throw some light on it.
I’m on a blue card but got laid off last year so currently I’m not earning any income. Next year, I’m eligible for the 10 year card. What documents can I submit when it comes to financial standing?
Here’s what is stated on the website: Proof of sufficient, stable and regular resources over the last 5 years: pay slips, tax notice, certificate of payment of pension, employment contract. Social benefits and allowances are excluded. https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F17359?lang=en
The key is to show that you have stable and regular resources. If you are not earning income, you may have a difficulty in applying for a 10-year card. Are you currently seeking employment?
Hi Molli,
I’m a recording artist that is signed to a U.S. record label/entertainment company. I will be composing and recording music in France for a project that will take more than a year to complete, in addition I want to move to France permanently. The record label/entertainment company will be paying me to compose and record the music as well as my living expenses. That said, music artists that are signed and paid advances and royalties or are comissioned to make music are considered self-employed independent contractors. So as a self employeed music artist who wants to get the long stay Talent Passport designated for self employeed artists, can I get the visa showing that I’m being paid by a u.s. company to do this music project in France, or do I need to show that I’m being paid by a French company/entity/individual? The music project would be created in France and the album would be released in France (with albums, singles / streaming, vinyl sales occurring in France) and there would be French lyrics, in addition to a global release in English. This project will truly be a French project that highlights French heritage and culture… so this would benefit France. But again, this project would be paid for by a U.S. based entertainment company, so any proof of income paid to me from this project would come from that source. Do you think I can qualify for the self-employed artist Talent Visa based on the info I’m providing? Your insight is much appreciated
Hi Nat, thanks for reading! Based on everything you’ve outlined here you have a good chance of being approved for the visa in my opinion as it sounds like your project is very much tied to France and French culture. If you’re paid an advance and it covers the French minimum wage for the entire time you plan to work in France then you could use that as proof that you’re able to support yourself. I hope this helps!
Hi Stephen,
I am a UK citizen, married to a French citizen who works in France as an opera singer for 2 months at a time. I am an employee of a London-based company. I would like to be able to work remotely for my company, from France, for less than 90 days, so that I can join my husband while he undertakes his contract.
My employer has been unable to agree to my request due to a (seeming) lack of clarity (or lack of availability of information) around remote working in France, questions around taxation (is my employer liable for tax in France?), a lack of digital nomad visa scheme, etc. They said I’d have to seek legal/taxation counsel to find out if it would be viable for me to work from France – even for just a short stay.
It’s a really frustrating situation – particularly when I previously lived in Paris for 2 years (pre-Brexit) and when my parents and sister live in France too!
As a UK citizen, you are permitted to come into the EU for 90 days every 180 days.
France cannot bar you from continuing to work for your UK company during your visit to the EU. They have neither the legal nor the moral power to do so.
If your company refuses to allow you to do so, you can always tell them you are simply going “abroad” and not specify where you will be precisely, only that you’ll be reachable. 🙂
I just wanted to leave a comment thanking you for this resource! My long-stay visitor visa was approved for France. I followed this guide and the steps listed in another article from this website, “How to Get a Long Term Stay Visitor Visa (VFS and Covid-19 edition).”
I work remotely and I submitted a letter from my employer with my visa application that stated my move to France for the remainder of 2024 would not change my employment status with my company. I also submitted a letter declaring that I wouldn’t search for a job while in France.
Make sure to have all the documents listed for your VFS appointment, and you should be good to go! Excited to be in France soon! 😀
I just wanted to leave a comment thanking you for this resource! My long-stay visitor visa was approved for France. I followed the steps from this guide and also read another article on this website, “Can I (Legally) Work Remotely in France?”
I work remotely and I submitted a letter from my employer with my visa application that stated my move to France for the remainder of 2024 would not change my employment status with my company. I also submitted a letter declaring that I wouldn’t search for a job while in France.
Make sure to have all the documents listed for your VFS appointment, and you should be good to go! Excited to be in France soon! 😀
Hi Zack, thanks for the comment, it’s great to hear another success story. You did exactly as I and many others have done, and have confirmed once again the validity of this approach. Welcome (soon) to France!
Hi Zack,
I’m in the same situation. Do you know how this affects our taxes? Should we have our company continue withholding taxes as they’ve been doing, and then also file a tax return in France? This part is really stressing me out. Thanks.
Thank you for the response and all of the great info you provide! Since the Talent Passport is issued up to 4 years, and when you say “If you’re paid an advance and it covers the French minimum wage for the entire time you plan to work in France then you could use that as proof that you’re able to support yourself”… with that in mind, am I supposed to show 3 months of bank statements that proves I earn per month at least 70% of the French monthly minimum wage OR am I supposed to show that I currently have a bank balance equivalent to 1 years worth of 70% of France’s annual minimum wage, or is it 4 years worth being that the Talent Visa is issued up to 4 years and my spouse and I will be making France our permanent home? Also, this Talent Visa allows my spouse to join me… but I did not see any requirements for proof of income for a spouse at the official French Visa site with their Visa Wizard. Just want to make sure… am I/ we supposed to show proof of income for 2 people?
Lastly, we are definitely interested in getting a consultant being that the Talent Visa is just one of many things we’ll be needing for our move to France. We have built three different recording studios over the years in Los Angeles for the recording projects that we and our record label do, so we’ll also be building another professional recording studio in France. Between visas, moving, renting/buying property, continuing to learn French, getting rooted and building a life in France, while also composing, recording and completing the music project, I’m thinking a consultant in our corner could make life and work easier. Anyway, your thoughts and guidance are much appreciated!
Hi,
My wife and I moved from Maryland to France seven years ago. We both tried to exchange our Maryland drivers licenses for French. Mine was approved and my wife’s was lost long enough for them to tell us that it was too late to exchange and she had to start over again. Now, seven years later, shehas passed the code and is taking driving lessons to be able to take the driving test. My question is, can she continue to drive our car on her unexpired Maryland drivers license while she is doing this? The driving instructor told her that it was absolutely forbidden, and she could be put in jail if she were caught. I am unclear what the ramifications are if she continues to drive.
I don’t know why you would believe that any country would allow you to drive on another country’s driver’s license when you’ve been resident there for 7 years.
My advice, especially so close to her taking the driving test, is not to risk it. Even if it’s not jail, do you really want to pay a fine, which will not be a small one?
I share Mr. Heiner’s advice here.
Yes, it is rare to be controlled by the police if you do not commit any violations.
Yes, commonly, the French police are lenient about these situations involving Americans.
This does not offset the fact that this is a felony as you are driving without any valid license in France. The cases I am familiar with through my clients ended up having the car pounded right there and there is a hefty fine to be paid, and the money paid to get the car out of the pound.
Came across your website in a moment of panic and am glad to have found it!
I picked up my titre de séjour card in Paris today, only to realise it already expires next week (lol). I checked for convocations in my prefecture right away and booked the next available — 2 months after expiration.
I know this is an older post, but wanted to share my research in case it helps anyone else that finds your page for the same panicked reasons — especially since it seems most prefectures no longer take walk-ins.
I’d suggest seeing if Article L433-3 applies to the situation — it did for mine. With proof of a convocation + expired card, your rights to work and stay in France appear to be protected for 3 months, so long as you made the request for renewal before expiry.
Hi,
I have a 4 years carte bleue européenne expiring in 2027. Can I apply for 10 years long term card with A2 level certificate before expiry of my current card.
Thanks for this very detailed process! Everything seems very clear to me, except for one detail: providing the partner’s French passport. How would that work in a situation like ours? I am an American citizen with Irish citizenship through my mother, and I have an Irish passport. My children also have Irish passports. My husband only has an American passport. If my family moves to France, would my Irish passport suffice to apply for my husband’s VPF? If not, what would I need to do in order to show French nationality? Thank you!
Thanks for reading, and that’s an interesting question.
In my understanding, one of the partners needs to be French to apply for a VPF. I would take some time to look into the visas available for those with Irish citizenship to live in France. In determining that, you’ll have a better sense of what you need to do to include your husband (and his American passport) in your application process.
Hi Stephen,
I have dual citizenship (USA/France) and will be moving to France this summer long-term. While I obviously can work in France, my qualifications mean that it’s easier for me to find work in the US. I’m trying to figure out if it would be better for me to try to work remotely for a US employer or to set myself up as an “auto entrepreneur” and work freelance for US employers. I think that in the first scenario, I would pay taxes and contribute to Social Security in the US. In the second, I would do both in France. Is there anything that you can add? I saw in an earlier post that you advised against setting up a business in France. Can you explain a little bit more why?
Thanks!
I don’t know why you would set yourself up as an auto-entrepreneur to work for an American employer. There’s an income cap for that tax classification.
I advised against setting up a business in France because it’s a very unfriendly place to do business. You have a golden ticket already in a French citizenship. Just set up a US business and pay what you want (based on how you compensate yourself) to US social security.
To get any French pension benefits you’ll need to work in your new French business for at least 15-20 years, and even then, the rewards are not that handsome.
Trust me on this: don’t set up a French business…it’s simply not worth it. You won’t derive any benefits from it. I only set mine up so that I could obtain citizenship and I will be shutting it down immediately after receiving it (if I do).
Thanks so much for your quick reply. And sorry for not acknowledging it sooner! I’ve been busy and am only just now getting back to this… My question based on your answer is then what do I do for health care while I’m in France but paying taxes in the US? I guess private health insurance? But it would be a somewhat bitter pill to swallow as a French citizen. One of the benefits of having residency/citizenship is public healthcare, but it’s only for those employed in France.
Thanks for all the informative work you do here. My question is slightly different, I am about to renew my long stay visitor visa for the first time (it runs out in July) and I will supply my french tax return and my last three month’s pay slips, but I haven’t been called for my medical yet. I’ve sent two chasing emails with no response. What do you suggest is the next best step? Can I apply for the renewal without it?
I don’t understand…why would the French care about your pay slips for a visitor renewal? Don’t include what is not asked for.
The bigger problem is that you have not been to OFII which will likely lead to a rejection of your renewal. I’ll send a connecting email with someone who might be able to help.
My suspicion is that you might not have checked “12 months+” for length on your original visa application, hence did not get a renewable visa, which means you never needed to go to OFII and hence were not given an invite. If this is the case, you will need to repeat the entire process over by applying for a visa and this time checking the right box, making your visa renewable.
I wanted to give you an update on this. I submitted the application for my visa renewal anyway without the medical certificate within 2 months of the visa end date. I ended up going directly to the place for the medical consultation when it opened at 8:30am and was treated really nicely and spoke to someone who booked my appointment for a few weeks later. I had the appointment all good, got the certificate (but didn’t do anything with it) and then was approved for the visa renewal a couple of weeks later. Now need to go to the Prefecture to chase down the final thing – I think I need to get hold of the carte de sejour, or pay something but all in all, it’s fine!
I have an urgent question / i have a 10 year visa in France, which i renewed 2 years back, having lived here for 14 years in 2 streches of 7 years each. I am employed in France, however right now im getting a job offer in China. Can i move there? I know I can but the question is i have just thought about applying for my French nationality partly due to my lack of French language skills / assuming that i cross the language hurdle, can i still apply for Frency nationality even if i take up the China job?
Hello! Our team doesn’t have the capacity to answer this question, so I just sent an email (with you CC’d) to an immigration lawyer who we work with frequently. Hopefully he’ll be able to help 🙂
Hello. Thank you for the nice post. In November 2023 as part of my milestone birthday celebration, I took a trip to Paris. My AirBnB was in Garges-les-Gonesse, le banlieu, but from there it was easy to get to St. Denis and then access le metro for Clichy/Monmartre. It’s my favorite place in the world for all the reasons you gave. I’m now trying to figure out how to live there for a year (apprendre plus francais for one thing!).
Hi Catherine. I am glad to hear that this information was helpful.
As to your question as to whether I’ve received my 10-year residency card yet? Unfortunately, no. It’s been eight months since I submitted my application and I’m guessing it will be a few more before I get word of it being approved. As I’ve talked to other foreigners, the common experience is that most Prefectures in the country are running really slow on applications.
I have received three attestions de prolongation de droits (each valid three months) while I wait. This document allows me to continue residing legally in France while I wait for my application to be approved and it allows me to travel in and out of the Schengen area. I received the first just before my carte de sejour was about to expire, and the other two just before the attestations were about to expire. It is nice that these processes seem to be automated now, which is a huge difference compared to before.
A quick look shows that anyone over the age of 65 who is applying for the 10-year residency card is not subject to the language proficiency requirements. Here’s a link (click on the “You’re over 65” tab to see the exception): https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F34501?lang=en
Hi Anika, apologies for our late response here. You can apply for your visa when you’re ready – if you miss that window but you have all of the proper paperwork needed, you’ll just have to pay a late fee. Hope this helps!
Hi Gracie! Thanks for a detailed description. I have a question about:
1. CERTIFICAT DE NON-DISSOLUTION DE PACS. How long does it take to receive the document?
2. COPY OF PACS, is this the CERFA N15726*02 document where both of us signed? I only have this original document, and a recepisse. We got pacsed last year 2023.
Hi Angelina, thanks for reading and apologies for the late response here. It’s hard to say how long it will take to receive the certificate – if you’ve spent an extended period of time in France you know that timelines on these sorts of administrative tasks are hard to predict ;). And yes, the copy of your PACS is the document you signed. If you’re concerned that you don’t have the correct forms, I would contact the town hall where you were PACS’d and just ask them for a copy of the certificate. Hope this helps!
Hi, Stephen, my name is CJ. My inquiry doesn’t have anything to do with obtaining the French citizenship. Nevertheless, I’m planning to move to Paris suburb area this August and I desperately need some help with finding an accommodation for my family of 4. I thought I’d ask you for some tips/leads. Many thanks.
Hi CJ, hopefully you are further along now but if you are not, I have found LongtermRentalsInFrance.com to be particularly helpful, myself. I hope you find what you need! Joyeux Noel!
Hello Chris,
You seem to have quite a level of expertise and thanks a ton for sharing your experiences.
I was wondering if a sufficient income from pole emploi counts as a stable source of income to be eligible for the 10 year resident card. Also, should a french university diploma suffice for the language proficiency?
Thank you for your kind words. I am not an immigration lawyer, but I do have the personal experience going through the process of renewing 1 year visitor visas and have applied for my 10-year residency card.
Here are the specific requirements on the proof of income: “Proof of sufficient, stable and regular resources over the last 5 years: pay slips, tax notice, certificate of payment of pension, employment contract. Social benefits and allowances are excluded.” https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F17359?lang=en
If the documents you can get from pole emploi fit this criteria, then they would be sufficient. In addition, as proof of your continual residency for the last five years, you will also need to provide your declaration d’impots sur les revenus which will show the stability of your income.
In Oct 2024- I will have been a resident in France for 5 years. Arrived Oct 2019.
Can I apply for my 10 year card instead of another one year card this Oct?
Also is there any other way of providing continuous residency besides tax impôt?
As I arrived in Oct I didn’t file the first year. 2019. But I have the last 4.
Yes, you can apply for the ten-year card upon having been in France for 5 years. However, I don’t know that there is any other way to prove continuous residency other than the avis d’impots. I personally just got summoned to the prefecture for my fingerprints (finally after having submitted my application in September of last year) and they asked for my proof of language proficiency and my five avis d’impots as proof of continuous residency.
We will send an email to an immigration lawyer with whom we work frequently (and copy you into the conversation) and hopefully he can help.
Thanks Chris.
I do have residential leases for the entire period. And of course my yearly carte de séjours.
Good luck with the conclusion – aka- 10 year residence card in hand.
Paula
Ok, that may work, though I’m not 100% sure. Today, when I was at the prefecture, I found out that my wife’s language test is no longer valid (apparently, they only accept tests taken in the last two years, except for official diplomas), so she will have to take another proficiency exam. The agent told me she would just renew my wife’s 1-year card for now since it would take a good while for her to sit for an exam and get results. She can resubmit an application for the 10-year in a year as long as she passes her exam. Oh, and apparently the language requirements are going from A2 to B1 starting in 2025.
All that to say, if they don’t like your supporting documents, they can at least renew your 1-year card, until you have 5 years’ worth of avis d’imposition.
I also found out that the last step is an enquete de mairie (this is not on the official website). When I asked what that entailed, she just replied, “bah c’est une enquete de mairie.” All I know is that it could take up to two months.
I’ll try to update my post with this new information.
Thank you for this detailed article. I had been struggling to find more information about the EU long-term residency permit and was very interested to read about your experience applying for it.
I have one quick question regarding proving five years of residency. Do you know if years as a full-time student with no income can be counted towards the five-year total? Or should I start counting from the moment I started working in France following my graduate degree?
Great question, Anna. I would think that the five years start when you start legally residing in France regardless of your reason for coming, but I don’t know for sure. I am copying and pasting below what is on the Service Public site, but we will forward your question to an immigration lawyer we work closely with and copy you in so that you can get a clearer answer.
If you have been legally and continuously resident for at least 5 years in France or have a European Blue Card, you can obtain a Resident Mention Card long-term resident – EU. You must also meet other conditions to obtain it (resources, health insurance, integration). This card allows you to stay in other countries of the European Union. It is valid for 10 years and is renewable.
I have recently imported a 1971 car from the UK. I have the FFVE attestation and have moved on to ANTS, waiting for immatriculation. Will I be allocated a registration in the ‘old’ format ending 01 for my department or will I get a ‘new’ format plate?
The question came in on whether once the State accepts collector’s status, what happens to the license plate.
You will get a whole new license plate, with a whole new number and a whole new “carte grise”. This means you will have to have new license plates made up, silver on black so that the car is immediately recognizable to be seen as a collector’s car and that you are allowed to drive it anywhere anytime.
I ordered from Rebelcar, which allows you to choose the form of the plate. You can choose to pay extra for screws and holes if you want to install it yourself. On the other hand I had it unfitted and my repair shop had the equipment to place it perfectly on my car: https://www.rebelcar.fr/plaques-immatriculation-noires-collection.htm
As of this article you stated that you have been waiting 3 months with no response… how long did it ultimately take?
I have been waiting for 5 months. I also received a notice of “prolongation d’instruction,” which has expired (I am struggling to renew it). I emailed the préfecture and service for Étrangers en France, and was told to “just be patient.”
The reason for the pronlgation is indicated as “saisine d’un tiers ou ênquete,” which I take to mean they are trying to contact my employer.
I’m not sure how long I should wait before contacting a lawyer, or if that would be of any good. Perhaps you have some advice!
Thanks for your question. I’d love to say that I have my card in hand, but I don’t as of yet. I applied at the end of September, so here I am at 9 months into the process and still waiting. Thankfully, I’ve received attestations de prolongation de droits on multiple occasions and mine have never expired (I think I am on my 4th one). I thought that the etrangers en France website must have automated that process (would make sense to do so), but I guess that’s not the case if yours haven’t renewed.
I did, just this past week, go to the prefecture because I was summoned to have my fingerprints taken. I thought this was the last step, but the agent notified me that an enquete en mairie would be the last step. When I asked what the enquete en mairie entailed, she simply replied, “bah, c’est une enquete en mairie.” Real helpful, right? She said it should take a maximum of 2 months. I’m guessing they want to make sure that I am not causing trouble in my community, but honestly, I am not sure. There are no details, that I have found on the enquete on any of the sites I’ve scoured. I’m hoping that by the end of the summer I will receive notice that my card is ready, though I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes a little longer than that.
You’re five months in, so at this point I wouldn’t worry, though you are always welcome to consult with an immigration lawyer (we have one we work closely with if you would like his info) should you want the reassurance of a professional. The wait is long and frustrating, I know. To me, the biggest challenge for you is that your attestation de prolongation d’instruction is not renewed. I wouldn’t worry about that unless you are hoping to travel abroad and your current titre de sejour is expired. Keep records of the “just be patient” response, just in case you have to show your titre de sejour at any point.
Hi Chris!
First of all thank you for such detailed information, it really much needed.
Could you tell me how was your last rdv at the prefecture? Did they ask you any question or it was only for fingerprints? Did you bring the documents you submitted before?
Hi Kira, thanks for your kind comment. I have a rdv at the prefecture at the end of the month, which will be 9 months after having gotten my fingerprints taken. Unfortunately, for whatever reason my 10-year card was refused. I suspect it has to do with the new language testing requirements- I personally submitted my brevet des colleges which in the past had been accepted as proof of language- and I’ve even heard that there is possibly a new “journee civique” potentially required. Thankfully, my 1-year visitor card was renewed so at least I’m still legal here. The only thing I’ve been told is that I can talk to the agent instructeur on the day of rdv. I may see if I can do a recours gracieux but I’m counting on having to start the whole process again 4 months from the end of this new card I’m about to receive.
I will write a dedicated post on the whole experience once I pick up my 1-year card. By the time I pick it up it will have been over 18 months since I started the process.
Hello,
The ANEF portal is a disgrace. I’ve yet to receive any ADP certificate and my residence permit is now expired. The prefecture does nothing in response. The response from ANEF is the same one you receive Melissa. Just be patient! Okay let’s be patient while I lose my job, rights to work, unable to support my 2 children and wife who are all French citizens. What an absolute joke. Same thing happened to me 2 years ago for my renewal before the ANEF, except my card was ready 6 months before they contacted me to receive it; after I repeatedly tried to contact them and inquire about the status. Just enough time to lose your job again.
Chris – what is your magic secret with the ANEF online service? It seems flawless for you, but when you read on the governments complaint board, there are severe problems for many people.
Thanks for the 10 year walkthrough though. If only I can get that ADP. I need to work and travel to the States, we have a house there still and planning to sell it soon. But now I can’t travel.
I’m sorry for the trouble you are having with the process. The ANEF online service is far from flawless. While it made submitting the application more streamlined, I am coming up on the anniversary of submitting my application and still have not received my card. However, I have received multiple attestations de prolongation d’instruction, seemingly automatically whenever the previous one was set to expire, which has kept up to date my legal rights to reside in France and travel (I’m on a visitor card so I don’t yet have rights to work in France). Have you consulted with an immigration lawyer? Would you like us to put you in touch with one?
Hi Stephen,
This, along with all the comments, have been such a great read. Thank you.
I am both a French and American citizen who is currently working remotely for an American company. I’d like to move to France (say for less than 6 months though I am interested in staying longer) but I am unsure of the tax implications; primarily for my company. They are okay with me working in France, however not ‘officially’ – I just don’t want to cause issues for them if I end up needing to file a french taxes.
My question is when would I qualify for tax residency in France? Would I even need to file taxes in France if am getting all of my income from the American company I work for?
Again, thank you! I apologize as I know parts of this have been address already
The people who object to remote work would tell you you would still have to register as a fiscal resident. However, given numerous conversations I’ve had with French accountants, as opposed to anonymous Karens on social media, I’m confident in the 183 day rule; if you’re not here for longer than six months, don’t worry about it (classic scenario: student here for a study abroad semester…the French do not chase down such people for tax filings). If you are here for 183 days in a Jan-Dec calendar year, you need to file.
In this case, what would the potential impact be for the company (my husband is working remotely for his company, trying to fly under the radar, and will be in France for longer than the 183 days)?
Margaux I cannot speak for what the company’s responsibilities are in regard to where their remote employees are located. I trust that they employ staff to research that for themselves. I’m here to point out to people that it is not illegal to work remotely in France and that you’re still obliged to file taxes in France past 183 days even if you don’t have income in France and won’t pay taxes here.
This information is extremely helpful! I will be applying for a student visa soon taking French courses. Just to confirm to receive a student visa for this it has to be at a FLE verified org or center. Is it normal to pay a couple thousand for the year courses in France? I am looking in Marseille if you have any recommendations or advice. Thanks!
Hi Kyleigh, thanks for reading! Yes, in order to receive the student visa the school/center/organization must be FLE accredited. I think the prices have gone up substantially since I was a student, and I have heard that they are a few thousand. I don’t have any specific recommendations for Marseille, but I do know they have several programs there. I hope this helps!
I’m really curious about your reasons for not wanting to live in the 6th anymore. I’m in the process of trying to get a handle on the different arrondissements and your blog has been super helpful for orienting me, except its telling me the good stuff in the neighborhood, not the reasons why i wouldn’t want to live there 🙂
Hi Michel, thanks for reading! I felt that the 6th was a little too residential for my taste – when I moved I was looking for a more lively and vibrant neighborhood which is why I love living in the 18th. The 6th is great for families and people who want to live at a slower pace. I hope this helps 🙂
Thank you for your incredibly helpful post! I have one clarifying question:
My wife has a job in Paris, and I work remotely. My understanding is that I would receive automatically a Passeport talent-chercheur residence permit using a simplified procedure (famille accompagnante) to come with her to France.
The Passeport talent (famille) visa gives me the right to work in France, but I am working for a US company. Will what you write in this post apply to me? You seem to be only talking about Long-term visas, and Profession Liberale visas 😮
The question is not about a certain type of visa, but whether it is broadly permissible to work remotely in France. My contention always has been, yes, no matter what visa classification you have.
Myself and my wife are US citizens, she received a job offer in Paris. She will be getting a visa through them (Passeport talent-chercheur), because we are married I can use the simplified procedure (famille accompagnante) to come with her to France. I would get a multi-year residence permit via the Passeport talent (famille) visa.
What I’m unclear on is if I have that visa, will I be able to work remotely for a US company? There is this helpful post on this site: https://theamericaninparis.com/2022/11/25/can-i-legally-work-remotely-in-france/ but it doesn’t talk about the Passeport talent (famille), which makes me worried that I cannot do the same with that visa. Do you have any ideas?
Hi again Michel, answering your question from our other post here to keep everything organized. All of the advice in our article on working remotely in France applies to your situation. I hope this helps!
Good morning,
Just to advise I also received my Long Stay Visiter Visa. Advised working remotely for UK Company, while living in France. Letter from my employer to authorise this, together with payslip.
I do have a question around Social Security contributions. Does my employer pay these if I have paid for 12 health insurance? If so when?
Thank you. I understand I will need to continue my contributions to the UK(NHS) and 8% of my global net income for my French social security charges.
Thank you
Thank you.
That was one of the most well-written and insightful articles I have come across in a while. Lately I seem to find articles that are either stories of “moving overseas gone wrong” or just the opposite, promising you a fun utopian lifetime vacation if you simply move overseas.
My daughter, son-in-law and 16-month-old grandchild are moving to Portugal July 18th or in about 2 weeks. My wife and I will escort them to Portugal, help them get settled and then we will head to France for a scouting trip for our move. (We do not want to be that far away from our one and only grandchild). Our plan is to follow them In August of 2025. Due to the Portuguese tax structure, we are not able to re-locate to Portugal, so we are moving to the South of France which will enable us to fly to Porto quickly and affordably.
I have often wondered how my grandchild will develop, and for that matter how me and my wife may grow and evolve as we are planning on a long potentially permanent stay. Your article gave me a little insight.
Thank you, Gregory, for your kind words. I have known people who have done just like you, moved to France to be near children and grandchildren, following their lead. And they, too, have made a life for themselves.
In my opinion (and, of course as a linguist) the most important act toward bi cultural is learning the language. There are “clans” of English speakers in the south of France who do not learn French, and somehow they never really integrate their chosen environment.
I have also been thinking about your grandchild. Having written my thesis on child bilingualism I can only encourage your daughter to speak (only!) English to her baby. It is not always easy to hold onto a minority language in a mostly monolingual country, but it is worth the effort in brain power for the child. You have incited me to write an article on this most important subject.
Wishing you an enriching move.
Hello Stephen. Thanks for this very useful post! A little question that I can’t seem to find the answer to anywhere: I’m trying to figure out whether my birth certificate submitted with the application (or for anything, really, I also ran into this when I considered getting married) needs to be less than 3 months old, as is required for French documents, and whether the apostille needs to be on the actual document copy, or/and on the translated version? The language on the service-public site is just so geared towards French documents that sometimes it’s hard to decipher… Any light shed on this would be super helpful! Thanks again for all your great content 🙂
As far as I know, the birth certificate does not have be “under three months old.” Mine was accepted and was a certified copy of the original, which makes it as old as I am, which is more than 90 days 🙂
As far as I know, they are much less strict than they used to be about the 3-month rule for birth certificates. This language has been removed from the document checklists I’ve seen online. But as I’m sure you already know, rules in the French administration are not always applied consistently.
I am not applying for French citizenship until early next year and have already obtained birth certificates for myself and my parents. I’m Canadian and Global Affairs Canada can take several months to issue the apostille alone, so 3 months isn’t a realistic expectation in my case.
I contacted a certified translator asking whether translation should be done before or after the apostille. They said after.
Hello,
I read your article and have also posted in some different FB groups about moving to France. I mentioned that I am planning on continuing my remote work (I work remote now in the US) while living in France. People went crazy like you said they would…but to double check that YOU were right, I simply emailed the consulate and asked. They said, “remote work is tolerated”. I just want to make sure I understand this is my process: Continue to work remotely, pay US taxes, file a tax return in France but I will not owe taxes in France because my income is not derived from working for a French company? How would I make a payment or how do they asses the amount I should pay if we sign up for the French healthcare system? Or should I just continue to use the healthcare policy I signed up for to meet the visa requirements? Hope this makes sense. Thank you.
Hi Luke!
You are a true wealth of information on the VLS-TS.
I have a couple of quick questions if you don’t mind:
I see the health insurance requirement for the VLS-TS is like $30,00 of coverage with no deductible. Would a normal travel insurance policy like Allianz work? It has a very high insurance amount along with repatriation if needed. If not do you know of anyone that will write a policy that’s France specific (that meets the visa requirements) that I can cancel after three months and move to the French healthcare system?
Second question is about accommodations. My wife and I would ideally like to travel all over France looking for the right place for us to live so we will likely be AirBNBing for several months and will not have a permanent address with a 12 month lease that I can provide. Would they accept a letter explaining that? Any other ideas about making something like that work?
Thanks for all the help you have provided the community!
Hi Jeff, so far as I can see the Allianz Care Global Health Insurance plan with the optional repatration add-on meets the requirements and should work fine. You will want to get a plan for 12 months since you need to show coverage for the entire length of your stay, which under the visitor visa is one year at a time.
As for travelling around without a fixed address, this is a question that comes up from time to time and the answer is that a nomadic lifestyle is not compatible with the demands or even conecpt of a residency visa. Although you can get the visa without having your final address nailed down, you do need to nail one down fairly quickly after arrival. You will find administrative tasks impossible to manage without a fixed mailing address and your ability to prove that you live there.
The best way to do exploration before hand, which is not at all a bad idea, is simply to come to France with your passport, with which you can remain for 90 days (I assume you are from the US). No visa or anything else required, just get on a plane. You will have to return to the US afterwards to apply for the visa, but by then you may at least have an idea of what town you want to live in.
But once you come here with your visitor residency visa, you need to have a town picked out, get an apartment there as soon as you can after arrival if you weren’t able to rent one in advance, and basically tell yourself that you’ll be there a year. Of course you are not a prisoner, you can move if you have to, and certainly you can travel as much as you want from your home base. But you have to think of yourself as a resident, and live as one.
First I want to say THANK YOU! This article has helped me an and you are truly kind for writing it and helping people. I had a question regarding my situation if you have time to answer I would deeply appreciate it.
I’m a US citizen who moved to France with my US citizen husband one week ago. We have a year lease in France and we both work Fully remote for a non-French affiliated US company. We came here on the Long-Stay tourism visa and have no plans to stay here forever (maybe a year or two) so don’t care about paying into the tax system for residency/citizenship/retirement purposes. Neither of us have (or plan to have) French bank accounts and we have travel insurance through IMG that we pay monthly and have no plans to benefit from the French healthcare system. We plan to stay in France from July 1 2024 to July 1 2025 at least (which is what our current renewable visa allows). We plan to spend a month total of that time in the U.S. (two weeks in December two weeks in May) and another month of that time (possibly) traveling around on weekends around Europe. In previous tax years in the U.S we have filed as 1099s (self-employed/independent contractors) because we technically are that even though we both primarily work for one company, this allows us to do write offs to make our taxes a bit lower in the U.S. our employer is willing to make us an employee for tax purposes but we have not done this in the past. To apply for the visa we had to show our bank statements, pay stubs, and work contracts, together (before taxes) we make about 90k. We know that as a U.S. citizen you have to pay taxes no matter where you live and that the U.S. has a treaty so that you are not double taxed.
however, I’m primarily wondering if I have to pay French taxes, and if it would be most beneficial for me to ask my main employer to make me an employee or to stay at the status I am currently. I do not want to break the law, but I also don’t want to screw over my employer or myself for no reason. Also, now I have so many people telling me I’m here illegally but i genuinely didn’t even know this was a controversy till after I had arrived. I had no plans to hide income/my job/my life from the French embassy. I explicitly gave them my work contract showing my work would be continued in France- I’m scared- I don’t want to do anything wrong. Do you all have any recommendations? I’m happy to provide as much information as possible! Thank you thank you thank you for taking the time to read this and provide any advice!
“We came here on the Long-Stay tourism visa and have no plans to stay here forever (maybe a year or two) so don’t care about paying into the tax system for residency/citizenship/retirement purposes.”
You’re not eligible to pay into the benefit system. You aren’t fiscally connected with that system, so there’s no way for you to pay.
“Neither of us have (or plan to have) French bank accounts.”
Stephen, thank you for this post and bringing me back to sanity on a recurring basis! I come here to read this every time someone tells me I can’t work in France for a US Company while on a LTS Visa. It’s maddening. It’s like I’m trapped in some bizarre nightmare filled with Eyes-Wide-Shut rejects all chanting, “ You must also formally agree not to engage in any professional activity during your stay in France. You must also formally agree not to engage in any professional activity during your stay in France. You must also formally agree not to engage in any professional activity during your stay in France.” as they circle around me more and more tightly. Scary.
There are some really grim resources out there, and some forums that seem to delight in naysaying, so your whole site is a breath of rational and positive fresh air. When I get closer to my departure date, I will definitely be singing up for the course to quell the fear and agony on a regular basis (so many things to do, so many possible things to screw up!).
I think that some people just really, really like to be grim reapers. On one blog I saw people offering up expert advice like “start your own small business” or “rent an office” – exactly the worst things to do. I suggested professional, competent help and referred them to your website.
Hello , i want to start my micro entrepreneur(Restaurant or fast food)in Paris here but i dont know how to go about writing of business plan for my bank for the loan , can you help me how to write it privately, please . Thank you .
A restaurant is not eligible for a profession liberale visa. That’s a freelancer visa with an income cap. If you’d like help with opening a restaurant, I know an attorney who can help. Use our contact form on the website and I will connect you.
I had obtained my one year VLS-TS (visitor) when I was unemployed and may start a job that offers remote working from another country (which does have a double tax treaty with France). As my partner is French there is a possibility I seek to renew my visa or to stay in France for longer. What do you suggest to be the next steps? To contact my consulate and update them on the information? Could I clarify that in your experience it was fine for people to report remote working and obtain a visa on this basis as long as they report their income (foreign sourced) on a tax return? Could you please also recommend any accountants / tax advisor in this regard? Thank you so much for being always so informative.
As already noted, France has no moral or legal right to prevent you from getting a remote job in another country, outside their legal jurisdiction. Do not inform the consulate (they don’t care anyway, as they aren’t in charge of taxes).
The article says that people have obtained visas (and others have confirmed so in the comments) while informing the French of that.
If you are interested in getting married, then that opens up a whole window of possibilities that makes things much easier for you.
I’ll send an email with possible accountant contacts.
Hi Gracie, thanks for this info. You mentioned you had 3 Long Stay Visa before applying for VPF. Did you return to the US during the end of those visas, or did you renew VLS TS in France (that means you did not return to US upon expiry).
My situation is that, i am PACSee for 6months now with my french partner. To apply to VPF you must be PACSee for 12 months. However my VLS TS visa will expire next month. I processed the renewal of my VLS TS 2 months ago with the new regulations online (ANEF). Unfortunately, there is no news or updates about the progress of my application, nor given the recipissé. I am afraid to overstay in France without my visa renewed.
My question is, can i renew or apply VLS TS in my country after I return and return to France as soon as possible and still apply for VPF after a year of out being PACSed? I worry because some said it should be uninterrupted 12 months. That means i should not leave France (but my visa is expiring soon).
I wish to be enlightened on this if you know some infos about my situation. Thank you in advance.
Hi Mary! Jumping in here – sorry for the late response. I’m going to connect you to an immigration lawyer with whom we work with frequently to see if he has any insight into your situation.
Hi Mary,
I had a similar situation happen to me. I started applying for my immigration rendezvous in May and was finally given an appointment for December…2 months after my visa expired.
I waited in line at the prefecture (for hours!) to ask what to do and the woman I talked to said that you enter an immigration limbo, where you are allowed to stay in the country because of your PACs but not allowed to re-enter the country, because you won’t have a valid visa for entry. She also said that returning to my home country would interrupt our 12 months of continuous shared life. Hope this helps.
I should clarify my situation as I have those ‘karens’ on FB telling me I will be arrested and fined. I am applying for the VLS-TS along with my husband. His income comes from a pension from a US government entity, and I plan on continuing to work for my US based company remotely. Can I bring my work contract to the visa meeting as proof of my employment or must I bring a letter from the company that explicitly states I will be working remotely? So if I understand it correctly, I can just keep things as they are, we pay all our taxes to the US, file a French tax return to declare the income we get, but I will not owe France any taxes? Do you know if there is a fee or a charge we may get if we sign up for the healthcare system? Thank you for your help.
If you look at these comments you will see I am answering a variation of everything I have said in the article already, almost as if, “yes I read your article, but this is my special case.” 🙂
Firstly, ask the Karens to produce one single example of anyone ever being arrested and fined. Just one will suffice. If they can’t do so, they have no evidence for their claims. Even if they were to claim to be following the letter of the law, it’s clearly a law the French are not enforcing. (That’s the most generous interpretation I can offer the Karens).
Secondly, you only need to mention your income if your husband’s is insufficient to cover both of you. Otherwise, there’s no need to explain to the French your economic situation. If you make more money, perhaps you should be the lead on the visa and attach him as the spouse.
The visa application asks for my employment information. My husband’s retirement income is enough to satisfy the French visa requirements. Do I fill in my employer info but not offer my paystubs if we don’t need them to prove income or should I not fill in employer info?
Thank this is very detailed and super useful. I am trying to apply for my citizenship. I am an American citizen born in India. The issues that I am running into is getting my parent’s marriage certificate. The Marriage was not registered as it was not common practice in the 1960s in India. My father tried applying for it however he is unable to get one. Any idea what to do in this situation.
I would try to speak with the Embassy and find out what other legal equivalent paperwork they have used in the past to overcome this problem, as you cannot have been the first person in this scenario.
I am American. I came to France last week on a tourist visa. I would like to stay and study. Will I have to leave France before I can stay. I also would like too work here too? Can I study online with a US program and still get a student visa or does it has to be a French school? I also want to learn French too.
Hi Sandra, thanks for reading! Yes, you’re correct you must go back to the US to apply for your student visa from there. Yes, you can work for any French company part-time when you are a student. You can not obtain a student visa for France for an online, US program. However, nothing is stopping you from doing a visa-granting French as a foreign language program to get the student visa (more info on that here) and then continuing to study online with your US school. I hope this helps!
Hi there, thanks for all the above good information. I have a question that I hope you can help with.
1. I’m an American with a 2nd home in France. I don’t intend to ever live there permanently. I travel there 2-3 times a year. Each time I stay 3-4 weeks . I have my California Driver’s License and a car that I bought used in France. As I come each time on a 90 day tourist visa, can I continue to use my CDL for as long as I renew it when it’s about to expire – even if I do this for the next 10-15 years?
Also, is there anything preventing me from getting a French driving license by taking written tests, lessons and a test?
I’m an American currently living in France with a Long term Visitor Visa due to expire on the 19th of September. I applied on line on the Foreign nationals in France for the International Talent Artist Self employed Visa. I qualify as I am an accomplished oil painter whose genre is French dancers from the late 1800’s and early 1900’s, Josephine Baker is highlighted in my art, I’m also a children’s book author. I received a message from the Processing Agent from the Interior of France, closing my application siting that I cannot change my visa in France that I would have to renew the visitor visa or go to the French Consulate in the US to apply for the International Talent visa…but I live in France??? Any insight would be helpful
Hi Odean, thanks for reading! I’m going to put you in contact with an immigration lawyer with whom we work with often on this one via email as I’m not sure why you got that response!
Hi Chris, wondering if you could share here the Immigration attorney’s contact info? Need some advice for changing status of my resident permit. Thanks in advance!
Thank you for all the information appearing above; it has encouraged me to seek clarification on this particular wrinkle of the “remote” income discussion. My wife and I are nearing the end of our first year in France with VLS-TS Visiteur status. We have applied for Carte de Séjour and intend to retire here permanently on two small pensions and some savings. I always intended to reinvigorate my fine art practice once our permanent residency was established after five years, but it is becoming apparent that we could use additional income before then. I am a US citizen and would only sell my work in the US/collect USD to an American account.
The wrinkle involves my product’s physicality as it would be crafted in France (exclusively by me) and delivered to the US for sale. Most of the scenarios discussed above involve digital “work” output and not tangible goods. Would you kindly give your opinion as to whether my situation qualifies as remote work, thereby not violating the agreed to clause against commercial activity while in France? Thank you so much!
lol Todd the “wrinkle” you mention is the only relevant point! You can’t get any more “doing work in France” than crafting a physical product! I don’t know any system/country in the world that would consider physical crafting “remote work” 🙂
You’ll need to convert to Profession Liberale or Talent to do this legally, or do a digital product or service.
If you want help, don’t hesitate to reach out to our team using the contact us form.
Thank you for your quick response. I believe I could use help to navigate the change in status and will reach out to you in anticipation of our next renewal in 2025. Thanks again!
This is very interesting as I thought I would want the talent entrepreneur visa because it lasts for 4 years, but it is better to get the 1 – year entrepreneur visa and then renew for 4 years? I run a parent company formed in the US and am now starting a subsidiary in France, but with the intention of living there and building a life.
I’m afraid that you’ve misunderstood the PL visa as some equivalent to the Talent visa. It is not. If you want to start a subsidiary of an existing company, Talent is the way to go. PL is a freelancer visa with an income cap, which doesn’t sound like it fits you at all.
Stephen – what a great, concise article and thank you for bearing with some many people’s comments. I have one more for you if you don’t mind…
My context:
– I am a UK citizen and to date have been a UK tax resident. Going forward, I will no longer be a UK tax resident
My living arrangements:
– 1/2 time in France (less than 183 days)
– 1/3 time in the UK
– 1/6 time elsewhere (Spain & East Asia)
My work:
– Fully remote for non-French (mostly UK) companies
My plan
– Either use 90 / 180 day visa waiver (if total time in schengen permits), or get a long stay visateur visa
My questions:
1. Will I be a tax resident in France? My initial thought is no based on spending less than 183 days in France, but my concern is that France may argue my main home (foyer) is in France if it is single place I spend the most time (since the rest of my time is split
2. Are you required to file a tax return if and only if you are a tax resident in France? I’m assuming this is a “yes” but would appreciate a confirmation
Thank you again for everything I have already learned from you!
You are attempting Andrew Henderson’s “Nomad Capitalist” plan, in which you have no tax residence anywhere. I’m not going to comment on that here, but will focus on the French aspect.
1. If you want a long-stay visitor visa in France, a 12-month renewable, you will have to become tax resident in France, even if you are not physically there 183+ days a year. Any other long-stay visitor visa is nonrenewable and you will have to apply for a new one every year from your country of residence, which will not be considered France.
2. No, you can be required to file a French tax return if you make income in France and are not a resident, e.g. you own a rental property.
Thank you Stephen. On point (1), my living and work arrangements are still somewhat up in the air. If I apply for a long stay visa, and then end up spending the majority of my time in the UK (and hence be a tax resident there) and spend less than 183 days in France and don’t have it as my “foyer”, would having the renewable visa still make me a tax resident? If you could point me to anywhere where I can read more on that point that would be much appreciated!
If yes, it sounds like I should apply for a non-renewable visa. I noticed you referred to the “box” to check for that a few times but when I was looking at the visa form it wasn’t clear to me which box that is. Is it the box “Intended duration of stay on the territory of France”? I have unfortunately already submitted the form online with 12+ months — any idea on whether they would accept me changing that on the paper form before my appoinment?
You are going to need to produce a tax return as part of your renewal process. They may not ask for it your first renewal, but by the time you’re there for your second renewal (you will have “lived” in France two years at that point) they are going to ask for it.
You’re focusing on the 183 days as the determining factor. Remember that if you don’t actually do that, you can assert that you do. The French don’t care that you were there 164 days and declare as a tax resident. What I’m trying to highlight is that you need to be a tax resident in order to seamlessly renew your visa.
You can’t change the box you checked already (the 12+ months), which is for a renewable visa.
Dear Mr Heiner, For those who are 1st time renewing the visitor visa (with remote work) this year, the 2024 French tax declaration would be due to France in 2025 and asked for by the immigration department at the 2nd year (2025) of renewal because tax delcarations are a year behind– is this correct for France?
Thank you kindly.
Correct, and only if you were in France long enough. I arrived in France in December 2013 so I didn’t file my first return until 2015 for tax year 2014.
I am father of eu citizen I want to know my right thru my daughter.i am British citizen.i work in EU countries many years.
When you say you “work in EU countries many years” this only would matter if you were in one of those countries for at least 5 years and speak that language at a B1/B2 level, etc. I don’t think citizenship can pass up from children, only down from parents, and then, not always.
I would research with an immigration attorney in any country you spent at least five consecutive years of residence.
Hello Stephen! The site has been really helpful so I thought I’d add a 2024 update:
Just moved to France on my exchange year (with the hope to convert it into a masters degree) – I tried Société Générale and LCL in order to get a first bank account.
Understandably this won’t apply to everyone, but my Grandes Écoles membership did help (they had special packages for students of the grandes écoles) and obviously speaking French helps.
I was surprised by how personal it was. The conseiller asked questions about life, plans etc. that HSBC couldn’t care less about. I thought this was quite a refreshing change from the impersonal banking I’m used to. (I lived in the UK prior to this and FATCA practically had no bearing for me – my accounts work normally there)
No one gave me a point-blank rejection. The SG conseiller had never done an American account before, and after filling the entire form, she told me it wouldn’t let her do it and she had to check and verify their rules before she could proceed. The LCL conseiller was a little more forthcoming and thought there would be lots of paperwork (past applications perhaps) but the only extra document her form requested was my SSN, which I am used to providing anyway for every bank account I have.
This too required approval from the directeur, which has yet to arrive, but I was quite reassured by the fact that they didn’t reject me outright. Now it hopefully will only be a matter of bureaucratic follow-up.
Thanks for this scoop! As you may remember, I’m NOT a fan of SG, and have only ever heard good things about LCL, but always willing to hear if someone has had a good experience with SG.
I’m planning on working remotely while self-employed in France under a visitor visa. Do you have any tips on how to write my attestation accurately that I “will not work in France”? I’ve taken this to mean I will not pursue French employment but want to be sure I’ve written this accurately for my visa documents. Thank you!
Hi Shardul, if your APS is about to expire you have a few options: obtain a CDI or CDD contracted job, create your own business, or begin a research project… or, if you’re in a relationship with a French person or other European, you may want to have a serious conversation about marriage. Otherwise, you’ll have to go back to your home country. I hope this helps!
Is the visitor visa no longer available to apply for online, on the France-visas website, or are we not seeing how to do it?
When trying to apply for the visa online, we only see 4 options for “Votre projet” :
Autre
Études
Installation familiale ou privée (majeur)
Installation familiale ou privée (mineur)
When selecting “Autre” the only available options After that for thé “Motif principal du séjour” are :
Ancien combattant
Jeune au pair
Volontariat
In addition to that, must one have proof of current employment, or is applying with plenty of savings and/or familial support+savings acceptable for the visitor visa?
Also curious what you think of the new “visa assistance” option VFS offers for 44 USD and whether you’ve heard anything good/bad about that–we submitted a request around 2-3 weeks ago and haven’t heard back from that service at all.
Hi Kara, the Visiteur option is still available, but you seem to have encountered the same hiccup that Jourdie did a bit higher up in these comments. When I create an account, I can see the four options you describe in the Votre Projet drop-down, but scrolling down *within* that drop-down box even more are revealed, including at the very end “Visiteur.” This drop-down is only populated after you have filled out all the other information on that page first (Votre situation, Votre séjour, Votre document de voyage). But frankly I believe the site is just a little buggy and it would seem that you are not the first to have a problem with that drop-down box. Perhaps you can try refreshing the page, or try using a different browser (for whatever it’s worth I’m using Chrome). And I would certainly do this on a computer rather than a phone. Please let us know whether you are able to figure this out, as I never heard from Jourdie what her outcome was.
You do not have to have proof of employment, only proof of sufficient funds to support yourself. Indeed this visa status is often used by retirees who are no longer working, but support themselves with their retirement savings/pensions. The 2024 “SMIC” (French minimum wage level) is roughly 1400 EUR per month net, that equates to approximately $19,000. You will want to show at least that much, preferrably in savings. It won’t hurt to list familial support, but I can’t say how much weight that will have with the French administration, as they are just taking your word for it. Note that you will once again need to provide proof of a similar amount each year that you choose to renew your visa, if you decide to stay in France for multiple years.
I have not heard about the VFS assistance program before, but at only $44 I’d say it would be well worth it if any assistance is indeed given – though your experience so far does not sound very promising. If they are not going to reply to your request I would not wait around for them before proceeding with your application. But if you do get anything from them, we’d be interested to hear your thoughts about the experience.
” And I would certainly do this on a computer rather than a phone. Please let us know whether you are able to figure this out, as I never heard from Jourdie what her outcome was.”
Ahh, I re-tried fro:m a computer — I had indeed been trying from a phone– and I see the many other options now, thank you:!!!
“You do not have to have proof of employment, only proof of sufficient funds to support yourself. Indeed this visa status is often used by retirees who are no longer working, but support themselves with their retirement savings/pensions. The 2024 “SMIC” (French minimum wage level) is roughly 1400 EUR per month net, that equates to approximately $19,000. You will want to show at least that much, preferrably in savings. It won’t hurt to list familial support, but I can’t say how much weight that will have with the French administration, as they are just taking your word for it. Note that you will once again need to provide proof of a similar amount each year that you choose to renew your visa, if you decide to stay in France for multiple years.”
Oh, I see, wasn’t expecting that for direct family members — so if the majority of savings to finance the stay is in the name of family (direct ascendants), it would be better to add the name of the person travelling to the saving’s account/make it joint, for example?
Would it still help even if adding the traveller’s name to the savings account is done within a few weeks of the visa application?
And is there a risk of visa denial if it’s not done (if there isn’t enough in one’s personal savings, for example for someone younger wanting to take a gap year to visit) and the family are just listed as garants in this section?
Financement des frais de voyage
Par moi-même
Cochez cette case et remplissez ce bloc si vous financez une partie ou la totalité de vos frais de séjour.
Moyens de subsistance *
Cochez vos moyens de subsistance propres.
Hébergement prépayé
Transport prépayé
Chèques de voyage
Carte de crédit
Numéraire
Autre
Par un autre garant
Cochez cette case et remplissez ce bloc si un autre garant finance une partie ou la totalité de vos frais de séjour.
Précisez lequel *
Saisissez les noms et prénoms du garant.
Moyens de subsistance *
Cochez les moyens de subsistance fournis par le garant.
Tous frais financés pendant le séjour
Hébergement fourni
Transport payé
Numéraire
Autre
Thanks so much for the advice!!
And I’ll definitely let you know how it goes if I do hear back from the visa asssitance services!
Hi Kara, thanks for reporting back about the computer working where the phone did not. I hope that helps others that might have this same problem.
With regards to familial support, I will admit I don’t have personal experience with that approach so take my words with a grain of salt. But fundamentally, if the visiteur has sufficient funds to pay for a year in France, be these funds of their own or of their parent’s, and if they can satisfactorily prove the existence and availability of these funds, I don’t think you will have a problem with the application. My comment about how much weight the administration would place on familial support was ill-worded, but what I was trying to convey is that it’s not sufficient for you to know that such support exists, it needs to be convincingly demonstrated to them.
It’s up to you if you want to add the traveller’s name to the relative’s savings account, and no, I don’t think it will matter that this was done shortly before the application. Otherwise then as you say list the relevant family member as “garants.”
Either way, have the applicant bring the relevant bank statements to the interview to show proof of funds. If these statements are in the parent’s name, still bring them, and in that case I would also bring a short, signed letter from the parents indicating their commitment to support the applicant financially. Note that during this whole VFS process it is completely fine to write letters, provide documents, and communicate in English.
I hope that helps, but let me know if you have more questions.
Thanks so much, that makes sense and helps very much!!
Should the signed letter be an original, or if the parents live in a different location, would you suppose it would be ok to have the letter notarised by a notary and to bring a scanned copy?
Hi Kara, notarization in this case seems to me a little overkill, but I guess it won’t hurt anything. I’d think an original signed letter would be sufficient, couldn’t they mail it to the applicant so they had the original?
You certainly can have the photos taken in France, and conveniently you will find “photomatons” for this purpose at most commercial centers, train stations, and other similar public places. You can access a search tool at the link above to find one near you. If you take the photos back in America, just go anywhere that will give you passport photos, Walgreens and other pharmacies are the usual places, and I think Kinkos/FedEx stores also offer them.
Hi Luke,
Thanks so much !
Just wanted to follow up in case it helps others — there was an option not mentioned in the article that we ended up encountering when making the appointment for the visas and selecting “additional services”, it would seem there is now an option to pay 12 USD to have the photos taken for you at the visa centre — along with options to go to the centre at a time ouside of normal hours to avoid the wait (50) and to receive the visa by courier in the mail rather than picking it up at a centre (50) )–yay, that certainly simplified things for us!
Sorry to bombard you with questions but in looking over the requirements once again, I had a few questions about the letter notarised certifying that one won’t work in France.
If the applicant is a student and/or not employed, is there a certain template one would go about following for writing the letter?
And you mention that freelance or work online may not count for this–for example, if one teaches piano online to an international base or would like to do something similar, via Skype and self-emplyed, would that be breaking the rules of the visa or signed letter certifying that one won’t work in France, or would it not be considered working for a French company?
Should the intent to do this be explained in the letter? How should it be worded?
And could it be notarised by a French notary or other foreign notary (e.g. British), or must the notary be American?
Can it be written solely in French as well or would it need to be in English also?
Would one be allowed to teach French citizens as well or would this be breaking the rules and restrictions?
Just want to be sure we aren’t breaking any of the rules hedre –thank you so much again for all of the advice and help!!
Hi Kara, the letter stating that the applicant will not work in France does not need to be notarized. Here is the format I used if you wish to copy it (it’s in French, though it doesn’t have to be, and no, you don’t need it in both languages):
ATTESTATION
Je déclare sur l’honneur que je n’exercerai aucune activité professionnelle rémunérée en France.
Fait à (the city in which you presently live), le (day/month/year)
(Signature)
The kind of freelance work you are describing sounds to me very much like the exact sort of thing that would be in breach of the agreement not to work in France. If the person in question has financial resources as you have mentioned before, such as money in a savings account or assistance from parents/relatives, then that suffices to show proof of financial means. In that event there is no need to discuss employment. They don’t want to see that you are working, they want to see that you can support yourself financially. In some cases remote work can be permitted, such as described in the article, but by far the most straightforward case is not to work at all, which it sounded like was the option being pursued here. Therefore mention nothing about employment other than the statement above, demonstrate the applicant’s financial resources, and stop there.
If you have further questions about the kind of work permitted or not under the Visiteur visa, I recommend you join the American in Paris Facebook group, where you can get more detailed answers: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theamericansinparis
Hi Luke,
Thanks so much and apologies for the late reply!
That does indeed seem the least complicated route.
Another question on a related but different topic, if one wishs to pursue citizenship is it absolutely necessary to have an employment or self-employlent in France ? (What about for retired pensioners?) I had been combing the archives on this site and noticed comments mentioning that it’s impossible to acquire citizenship simply by living in France long-term on a visitor visa?
Is that the case, and if citizenship is a goal, would it then be worth pursuing a different visa type in future?
Thanks so much again,
Hi Kara, you are correct that the Visitor visa does not offer a pathway to citizenship. One of the (many) requirements for a citizenship application is 5 years of paying taxes, but under the visitor visa, you will be tax-filing, but not tax-paying. I am not personally knowledgeable about the best way to pursue citizenship, if that is your goal. The Profession Libérale path is discussed most frequently on this blog, and you will find many posts about it if you do a search. The first one to read is “Which Long Term Visa to Pursue: Visitor or Profession Libérale?” which is here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2019/01/24/which-long-term-visa-to-pursue-visitor-or-profession-liberale/
Note that after being a visitor for five years you can apply for a 10-year residency card, which is still not citizenship, but is a lot easier to obtain, and gives one rights far beyond what the original visitor status did. Again search this site for articles, but here is a start, “How to Get a Ten-Year Residency Card in France?”: https://theamericaninparis.com/2023/12/31/how-to-get-a-ten-year-residency-card-in-france/
Thanks again, Luke!!
Didn’t know about the 10-year card possibility, which is interesting even though it means waiting 5+ years to work if not changing status.
Would you happen to know whether one must pay a specific amount in taxes each year ?
For example, if one receives familial support each year and it exceeds the tax-free amount so that one must pay income taxes on it, e.g. 20 000 – 30 000€/year, would that be enough for citizenship application down the line even if one is not working/on the visitor visa ?
Are there specific requirements for financial resources for citizenship that you or the team at TAIP know of, and is it necessary to be working at the time of applying ?
Also, on a side note, we were wondering whether for the 2nd year of visitor visa and the renewal process, having a monthly income from family of 2 000+€ into a French bank account would suffice along with the signed letter guaranteeing support, or if it may be more strict or fail for any reason ?
Thanks so much again,
Best
Hi Kara, I am not personally informed about the citizenship requirements, you might try posting a question under one of the Profession Liberale posts and someone will respond to you there, and at the very least read through them all (there is a lists of 10 that are permalinked on the right side of this site, or at the bottom of the page if you’re on a phone). I would also again point you to the TAIP Facebook group, where these topics can be discussed in more detail (https://www.facebook.com/groups/theamericansinparis)
What I can reiterate in answer to one of your questions is that there is no citizenship path through the Visitor visa status. You talk about paying taxes if familial support is over a certain amount – I’m not a tax expert and I’m not even sure if familiar support would count as taxable income, but at any rate, whatever taxes are owed on that would be paid to your home country, not to France (of course you must still file taxes each year in France, but that is not the same as paying). So no, there’s no workaround to transition to citizenship from Visitor.
With regards to your final question, in fact the Visitor renewal process is less strict rather than more, as compared to the application process. When you go to renew for year 2 you simply have to prove that you have been doing what you said you would do on the original application, which is living off your familial support in France. Among other things they will ask for recent bank statements (from your French bank account), provide these statements where this monthly support payment will show up as a deposit. That proves to them the support has indeed been coming in and funding your purchases and life expenses. I highly doubt they would ask for any kind of letter, and if they don’t ask for something, don’t provide it!
Thanks so much for the replies Luke,
We don’t have Facebook but will try to check some of the other ressources!
And just a quick update to say thanks so much again, the demande de visa passed with no issues with a signed, notarised letter (we did that for convenience and to make it look more official in the end) and came back within 9 days!
Happy Christmas and hope you have great end of year winter festivities
Great news Kara! A very Merry Christmas to you and your family as well.
Dear Chris!
Thanks for such an informative post! I hope you can help me out to share your point of view!
I’ve been working in Paris for 7 years now. I am currently holding my 2nd 4years (under Blue Talent Passport Visa) which will expire in July 2025 – that makes me qualify for the 10 years resident card upon renewal. However I’ve recently left my job in January 2024 and now under Pole Emploi.
My questions are:
1) If it expires in July 2025, can I apply in beginning of March 2025?
2) Can I still apply for the 10 years card then, without a CDI? I mean I have a solid 5 years continuious tax returns, and for 2024 tax return wont be ready upon my renewal.
3) If I get a job out of France (out of Europe) do you think I apply still apply from Overseas (I own a French property so I will have a local address).
4) You mentioned that the French proficiency requirements will change to B1 in beginning 2025 (January?), is it confirmed?
5) Do you have any other advise for my situation?
Thank you so much for your time, your page is the most comprehensive and practical information so far!
I appreciate your kind words. I’m glad that this post has been helpful. Below are some answers to your questions:
1. My understanding is that you need to submit your application between 2-4 months prior to the expiration of your current card.
2. Your five years of tax returns will show five-years of continuous residency and past resources. While nothing is stated that requires a CDI the prefecture has the right to request proof of future resources…
3. Which makes this question a delicate matter. If you’re employed abroad (and not living in France), your continuous residency could be called into question thus compromising your request for a 10-year card. Yes, you have property in France and the prefecture may not investigate too deeply into your situation, but I feel like you are taking an unnecessary risk by not being here when applying. Especially given the fact that an unwritten part of the process is an enquete en mairie (my mairie requested to meet with me for this).
4. I have not seen this published yet, however my prefecture is already requiring it.
5. If you have further questions, I’d be happy to set up a paid consultation call with you. Let me know if you are interested and we will email you to set something up.
Sorry for the absence of reply. The outcome for this year was no visa for my mom. I believe she deleted both accounts, created a new one and tried again to no avail.
Sorry to hear that Jourdie. If she tries again maybe the tip about PC vs. phone will be of use. I know it is possible to complete the process, but I understand technical troubles can be a bear to figure out.
Hi Chris, I already have a 10-year carte de resident good til 2031. But it’s not the EU card. So I want to re-apply for that one but would like to consult with an immigration attorney first as to feasibility. Could you please share your attorney’s contact info? Many thanks.
I have been watching this Blog for about a year and it’s so refeshing to hear the actual ‘truth’ in regards to remote-working in France. I, too, was beaten down by the crazy FB “Experts” and all the nonsense. Thanks so much for this great, valuable resource. We will be making an appointment in the future when we are ready to move to France (within the next 2 years). MERCI !!
Hello, me again :). I came by for some more sanity after reading an expat site with a Karen run amok giving recklessly bad advice. After reading some of the new updates here, I do have questions.
1. I’ve done the #1 thing: I’ve made the reservation and secured a cabin on the Queen Mary 2. I’ll (hopefully) come over end of October 2025 on the Long-Stay Visa. I’ll continue work for the American company from October 2025 to end of 2025, so approx 70 days. Will I need to file a tax return for 2025? Seems not, but ???
2. (sorry, long one) In 2026, I will work for the American company for another 9 months and, if my carte de séjour application is approved and I’m allowed to stay, then I’ll say my wistful* goodbye to the American company early.
I’ll have sufficient SS & state pension to exceed the income requirements. I’d have to file an income tax return for 2026 definitely, but by then, I’d have my CdS. My second renewal (2027, unless I were lucky enough to get a longer approval) would be based solely on retirement income.
I plan to have a French bank account and direct deposit of SS from US deposited (I checked to make sure it’s possible.) I don’t want to lie at all, but I also don’t want to raise alarms where none exist. Would it be of benefit for me to explain at the outset that I’d only be working for the American company for a year and then retiring (with proof of sufficient income, of course)? Or should I just stay silent and wait until I’m actually retired?
3. Also, what happens if after a few years retirement income is closer to the minimum? Do they ask you to leave? I should be okay unless something radically changes. My retirement is woefully grim in my current US location on the WC but quite sufficient for France, but I’m just wondering how that works.
Thanks again for all your sanity and patience. Grâce à vous and all this advice, I’ve been so encouraged. I’ve already found an excellent location (not Paris for me), three places to volunteer, and I’m studying French with tutors to refresh/upgrade my long-ago French skills. mille mercis, elle
3. they aren’t monitoring your income that strictly. They will be looking at your bank statements more to see that you are living life in France with expected bills, not scrutinizing how much you make.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience! This is super helpful as an American starting the process! I am starting to request the documents from the States and I was wondering which need to be apostilled? Is it just the birth certificate and marriage certificate or the FBI background check as well?
Thank you for your online resource! I was about to go to blows with folks on the “Americans Driving in France” who kept sending me to a 2007 link where Kansas was on the reciprocity list. Through your site, I have verified that Kansas is no longer on the license reciprocity list with France. I also appreciate your exchange with Lennart Nordstrom. I would also like to own property, in France, but only travel there a few times a year, each time under a tourist visa (90 days or less). To verify, non-residents are allowed to purchase a vehicle in France and insure it without a French driver’s license? If yes, would you recommend I purchase an International Driver’s License each year?
The international driver’s license is unnecessary in France and most of Western Europe. Just have your US license. You’re not a resident nor do you plan to be, so you don’t need a license.
Only French residents can hold a French driver’s license. You cannot have one. Therefore it is totally possible to purchase and insure a car with your American license. There is also the title of the car in your name. This requires owning or renting a place in France to anchor everything. An international license is not required.
First off, I’d like to commend you for consistently providing thoughtful and detailed replies over the years. It’s been really helpful to read through the various questions and answers. I’m adding my scenario here because I haven’t seen one quite like it.
My Situation:
My wife recently secured a position with a UN organization in Geneva, Switzerland. She will receive a Carte de Légitimation for her work in Switzerland.
We are considering living on the French side of the border (within 30 km of Geneva), as many UN staff do. From my understanding, UN employees apply at the French consulate for a VLS-TS visa, likely with the “Visiteur” mention. This allows them to live in France while commuting to Geneva.
My Specific Context:
I am not a UN employee. I run a consulting business registered as an S-Corp in the United States, where I currently pay my taxes. The plan is for me to accompany my wife to Switzerland, apply for the VLS-TS Visiteur, and then move with her to the French side.
My Questions:
1- When filing my taxes in the U.S., should I avoid using the Foreign Earned Income Tax Exclusion (FEIE) and instead file as if I were still living in the U.S.?
2-If I do not use the FEIE, how would I show the French authorities that I have already paid taxes on my worldwide income in the U.S. to avoid double taxation?
3-Does this overall plan (working remotely for a U.S. company while living in France on a VLS-TS visa) sound reasonable to you? Any additional pitfalls I should be aware of?
Thanks in advance for any insights or guidance you can provide!
I’m not an accountant and I’m not going to start pretending I’m one on the Internet, especially not knowing your own financial situation or the turnover of your business. 🙂 If you need a referral to a US accountant who works with Americans who live in France, I’m happy to make the connection. Just use the contact form on the website and I’ll connect you.
I’m also unfamiliar with UN norms. I’ve met people with special UN passports that allow them to do fascinating things. But the general principle is that if she works in Switzerland she has the right to live in Switzerland. Given that she can truthfully say she is not working in France, I suppose the Visitor visa could work.
I know of many people who work remotely on a visitor visa, declared to the French that they were doing so, and file their taxes in France each year, using the line item for foreign income.
Thanks Christopher. Its a small 1 person business bringing in less than 120k a year. So nothing wild. I essentially pay myself w2 salary. I just want to be able to keep working for clients remotely as I do now, and continue to pay myself a modest salary, while living in France on a VLS-TS visa. 🙂 It seems that is a reasonable approach based on your response.
Just curious how the French determine that one has already paid taxes on the foreign income.
Hi Christopher, thanks for reading! Sending you an email — you may benefit from a consultation with us or an immigration lawyer with whom we work with often.
I just completed the submission for validating my visa. I also got hung up on the “Référence réglementaire (regulatory reference) number”, which was nowhere to be found on my visa, P2 VLS TS. After a bit of research, I discovered this info has changed since this article was written in 2022.
Luke says that:
“Under remarques (remarks) we will specify our visa type, for us this will be Visiteur. You will also be asked to select a Référence réglementaire (regulatory reference) number from a drop-down list. You can find this number somewhere on your visa in small print, for me it was R311-3 5° and I believe this should be the same for all visitor visas.”
Since 2022, the French have re-codified their system and the two numbers they offer you both respond to your visa type. One code will indicate your visa was granted before or possibly during 2022. The other indicates your visa was granted after 2022.
In my case, having a temporary work visa in 2024, the correct code was “CESEDA R431-16 8”. I found a chart with the former and new codes for each visa type on the Australian French Embassy at the link below. Thank you, Aussies.
Thank you very much Jackie for this useful update. I have modified the post and I hope that it does indeed save some future readers the trouble you had in finding this code.
For those reading this and validating a Visiteur visa, note that the code will be “CESEDA R431-16 16.” Jackie’s code was for the temporary worker visa, not the Visiteur.
Hey Stephen,
Thank you for the helpful forum and details. I am also in the process of gathering my documents… the birth certificate with the apostille stamp has been a real headache for me since I have a Consular Report of Birth Abroad from the US. Just a question, did you get the orignal copy of your Birth Certificate returned to you or did the Prefecture keep it after your interview? I am asking because despite trying to request multiple, I was only given one Certificate with the Apostille stamp and I am worried it is not enough in case they keep it. Please let me know what you think and hope your interview went well!
Because I knew I would be going through this process the last time I requested a birth certificate extract I requested multiple ones. No, they will not be returning your copy to you as it’s part of the documentary record and paper trail.
When you say you are “worried if they keep it” are you thinking your proof of birth will be erased? That’s not possible. 🙂
If you can’t order multiple ones, order one. Then order another one when that order arrives.
I attempted to exchange a Texas DL within the first year at the Bayonne Prefecture (his was before the online application was possible. File in hand, thick with all the necessary and costly translated documents, I was told that because I was in France on a carte de séjour visiteur, I did not qualify for an exchange. Then they proceeded to exchange my husband’s DL, as he was holding a profession liberale carte de sejour. So with his knowledge, I have not attempted it again. Seven years later, I am finally applying for a 10-year residency card but am still holding a near-expired Texas DL which I can’t renew online nor in person because I am a resident of France. I have submitted my application online for a French license nevertheless…foolishly expecting a miracle. Another example of how each prefecture is able to interpret the law through their own lens. I should know, as I’ve had the pleasure of living in six different departments.
I’m currently an RN considering moving into tech to make myself more marketable to move abroad. Do you know of any websites I can research in terms of in demand skills in France?
Hi Camren, I don’t know of any specific websites, but would encourage you to look at sites like Indeed and LinkedIn to see what types of companies are hiring in the towns and cities you’d be interested in living in. I hope this helps!
I’m just curious about whether they you had to take a language test and if you were assigned the 4-day civics classes as well, during your OFII visit? I thought it was mandatory for anyone with a VLS/VLS-TS. I’m here on the latter (vie privée et familiale) but don’t intend on renewing my visa after it expires next summer. I understand the need for the medical visit, but do I still have to go through the rest?
Hi KC, no, I was assigned no such thing. There are no language requirements or civic classes for the Visiteur visa, only the medical exam. There are differences between the Visiteur and Vie Privée statuses but I don’t see anywhere where the latter requires language or civics classes either.
Thank you greatly for the article and commentary! Seems fairly clear that remote work is currently accepted by the French consulate. I have a related question that has also experienced its share of online negativity. I’m wondering if such negativity is fair or if it’s also overblown. When it comes to the question of changing from a Visitor Visa to a work Visa (e.g., Profession Liberal), most guidance I’ve seen says (1) that doing so is difficult and often takes 4-6 months because the prefecture will scrutinize your initial intent of applying for the Visitor Visa, (2) you greatly increase your change of changing visa status by renewing the Visitor Visa once and waiting until the second renewal period to try and change, and (3) you cannot look for work while on a Visitor Visa (even if you do not actually engage in work). First question: do you agree with points (1), (2), and (3)? I suppose I’m somewhat confused because there must be many people who wish to take one year off work, live in France, but then return to working after a year. Seems quite reasonable and in compliance with the terms of the Visitor. Am I missing something? 🙂 Thanks!
1 and 2) as I said in my original PL visa article, you need to renew your visitor visa at least once. I don’t even know of a case where someone switched to PL without ever renewing their Visitor. This is not published anywhere as a guideline by the French, but so many things are not said by them that are facts.
3) This is a nutty assertion.
I can’t speak for all the noise in all the forums. I can only say we haven’t yet ever had one of our points contradicted on remote work contradicted by the French administration. When that day comes, we will publish it, because we aren’t interested in being “right” as so many online Karens do, but in helping people who want to live in France, a country we have adopted as our own.
Visiteur is a valid immigration status and this civil servant was wrong. In those situations, one must push to submit the request. Today everything is done on line and those situations are less frequent. This said the process is very long and tedious
My story: I failed to apply for my reciprocal US/French driver’s license in a timely fashion. I’m now the owner of a sans permis voiture (without a car license). This car is by Citröen; you don’t need a driver’s license. There are several ‘like’ auto manufactures. I’ve only seen a couple on the road; they’re all over the EU. They’re electric; a 14 year old can drive them (with, I believe only a scooter’s permit – but no permit for an adult). If you’re past the date of receiving your French license and you need a car, Google: sans permis voitures. You can also rent. I paid $8k for mine (that’s the low end). They move like snails; (Fred Flintstone comes to mind). Monthly insurance rates are high (you can imagine why). They’re likened to golf carts. They’re necessity cars. You CANNOT drive on motorways, but if you’re like me, my village is 5 minutes from a COOP supermrkt.
I can get essentials. These cars have no airbags. There are no bells-and-whistles. There’s a USB port and beverage holder. Extremely roomy inside. There’s no trunk. There are two seats: one for you and one for another human, or human with a large dog and/or enough room for plenty of groceries. There are no back seats. Again, it’s by no means a car to cruise around in. It uses the same plug as a hair dryer (must have an adapter if not near a normal plugin). The Theory Test (Code Test) for garnering a French driver’s license is très difficile even for the French. TG I’m not one who needs a car for travel. Yes, in some/many ways, it’s like living on the other side of the moon (for what I’m accustomed to). But that’s part of the journey (albeit a slow one, in this little car) but it’s not about the destination – or maybe, in this car, it’s ONLY about the (nearest) destination! Keep breathing. It’s just another bump in the road, and in this car, you’ll feel it.
Hello, thanks for your blog. As a freelance designer in the US, invoicing a small job to a French client, I do not need to charge the VAT, do I? If I understand well, I am exempt from charging the VAT if I invoice for less than 33K euros a year. Am I right?
VAT only applies to European-based companies. As an American company/freelancer, you have no obligation to do anything with VAT. The 33k number you are referring to (may have fluctuated) applies to people who are in Europe, paying into European tax systems. VAT is a Europe-wide thing, not part of other country’s tax systems outside the EU. You may have to pay VAT on purchases you make in Europe, but if you’re not resident or doing business in Europe, you don’t usually have to pay VAT. That’s part of why there’s a “VAT refund” line at the airport.
Your services are awesome, I really appreciate. In my case I already stayed In France for 12 years and had a carte de sejour renewable every year but when I came to India in vacation to meet my aged parents first I lost my father and before I could regain France my mother had a heart attack.So in a period of 13 months I lost both of them. During my stay of 12 years I took various French language courses at prestigious institutes like Jussieu for two years, at Alliance Ftancaise de Paris etc. for 6 years and then obtained French Language Diploma, Certificate of Tourism & Hottelery, Certificate of Business French from Paris Chamber of Commerce & industry and worked as Translator Interpreter for French, English, Hindi and Gujarati for 6 years. Moreover I have good notions of spoken Portugese, Punjabi, Urdu and Bengali . Because of social, family responsibilities I could not come back to France before the expiry date of my carte de sejour. And at the same time period there was a huge influx of people from Eastern European nations in France that hindered the renewal of my carte de sejour.But as per the Bills passed in Jan 2024 regarding the liberalized rules of Immigration / Integration Laws may I regain the Hexagone or not. I wish I could come back to France and engage my linguistic skills in service OFF RANCE.
Hi Chris! Thanks for this article (and this entire site, which was a huge part of the reason we decided to take the plunge and move to Paris earlier this year.) Quick question about the 10-year card – can the 5-year proof of residency can be on any type of visa? We’re currently on a VLS-TS but my husband is thinking of switching to a student visa so he can work a bit and get some training to make him a better candidate when he is able to work permanently. Just want to make sure that switch won’t cause the clock to “start over.”
“If you have resided legally and continuously for at least 5 years in France or if you have a European Blue Card, you can obtain a Resident Mention Card long-term resident – EU under certain conditions. This card allows you to stay in other countries of the European Union. It is valid for 10 years and is renewable. We present you with the information you need to know.”
My understanding is that this means that so long as you can prove that you have been legally in France for five continuous years, the actual visa status does not matter.
I came across your website because I was scared sh**tless by one of the multitude of “Karens” on various FB pages of expats in France.
She told me that my partner’s VLS TS visa does not allow him to work remotely in France and that he applied for a wrong visa and that VFS Global made a mistake recommended the visitor visa. It should have been the “profession liberale” and that we will be fined and kicked out of France if he works in France…. blah blah blah…
I was confused and nervous by that fearmonger and out of desperation, google “if one can work remotely in France”, thank God your article came up.
You are absolutely right! My partner applied for his long stay visa in France with his remote foreign income last month. I want to share his case here for other people to know.
My partner is a self-employed person, working remotely for 2 notaries in Canada. At first, he was confused between the profession liberale and the visitor visa. So, he filled out both forms. At the appointment, the representative at VFS Global Toronto advised him that the long stay visitor visa would be the correct visa for him. So, he submitted his proof of income with the notaries’ letter confirming that he is working as a contractor remotely for them indefinitely. He provided 3 recent invoices; his letter of intent which stated that he promised not to search employment or clients in France. He provided 3 years income tax return in Canada, plus a saving account of more than one-year minimum income requirement.
His visa was approved and issued within 2 business days from the day of his appointment at VFS Global Toronto.
A few days ago, I was looking for an apartment in France, and posted on 4 expats groups to see if anyone have a place for rent. One woman reached out saying her friend has an apartment for rent, so we were exchanging messages. She asked about our employment status, and when I told her that my partner works remotely and he has a visitor visa, she freaked out. She kept going on and on that he got a wrong visa and that he would not be allowed to work in France , blah blah blah… for hours!!!
She is adamant that the expats group about Carte de Sejour and visa have many experts in immigration and visa…She told me to post a question about my partner’s situation on the group. She assumed that maybe VFS Global representative misunderstood that my partner would not work in France, she disregarded that I repeatedly wrote that he applied with a remote income from Canada, that his clients wrote letters, stating that he is working remotely and indefinitely for them….
I told her that I would not ask people on FB group about my partner’s case. If I need to clarify, I would call VFS Global or the consulate in Montreal. I ask her should I trust a nobody or trust the authorized representative at the French consulate who approved my partner’s visa? She insisted that they must have misunderstood that my partner is not working remotely in France.
I had to cut her off and said that I need to go for lunch. She would not stop! What is wrong with these people?
It’s also upsetting to see many people asking questions in these groups about moving to France with a remote job and they were told by these fanatics that they can’t legally work remotely in France. They just killed other people’s dreams pretending that they are the law holders when they are not. It’s very sad to see!
Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge. Bravo for doing a wonderful job!
Thanks again for providing the receipts against the Karens. They still have never provided a single case in which someone was deported from France for the great crime of remote work.
Hi Chris,
Thank you for a very informative article. I had a quick question :
1.I would like to request a 10 year residency card but I do not see a comment box anywhere on the form that is available on the online site of my prefecture (demarches.simplifiees.fr) where I’m applying for my titre de séjour renewal (travailleur temporaire). So I am wondering where to mention the same? Should I just write an application and upload it in some section of my application?
2. I was waiting for my job papers to come through so now my visa expires in 3 days. I am guessing the 10 year card is a long shot?But since I’ve been her for 5 years, I wanted to try nevertheless. Do you think that’ s a good idea?
1. I would say that if there’s anywhere that you can write that you are wanting a 10-year card, that will alert the prefecture of your desire to apply for the 10-year card.
2. Typically, the application for renewal needs to be submitted at the earliest 4 months and at the latest 2 months before the end of validity of your travel document. In the future, I would suggest submitting your application within that timeframe.
Hi ,
i am from a 3rd world country and planning to study in France and i currently work remotely for an employer in my home country . can i continue my current remote job while i am studying ? if yes then do i need to submit any paper to embassy related to my current job ?
if yes then what paper i need to obtain and submit ?
Hi, we are moving soon from the US to France. My husband is retired and I work remotely for a US company. Can you guide us to a tax professional? Love your article, it gave me the info I needed to get my visa. I was totally upfront about continuing to work remotely and had no problems at all. Thank you.
Hello!
It is such a relief to find a page highlighting these confusing visa/tax issues and the misinformation surrounding it all. Thank you very much for taking the time to write this article, and for reading and responding to everyone’s individual comments and questions on the topic. It’s super informative and so, so helpful.
I’m British and I work for a UK company. That’s where I currently pay my taxes, my job is 100% remote. I’m planning to permanently relocate to France with my French partner because of his new job. We’ve been PACSed for 5 years and lived together (outside of France) for over 8 years, however I’ve recently realised that this does not allow me to obtain a spouse/family visa – not initially, anyway. I am now considering the renewable 12-month visitor visa.
Having spent the last couple of weeks reading posts on various Facebook groups in relation to remote work in France on a long stay visitor visa, quite frankly I’ve been absolutely terrified about our upcoming move, wondering whether I’ll have to quit my job for 12 /24 months, or marry my French boyfriend immediately to avoid being potentially fined, imprisoned, deported, or straight up banned from the EU if I am ‘caught’ working remotely.
Exactly as you have stated, the French consulate just advised me that as far are they are concerned: ‘with the 12-month visitor visa status it is possible to work remotely for a foreign employer situated abroad with a foreign contract’ – but also recommended that I seek independent tax advice, which is what I am now looking to do.
I’ve read most of the comments on this page, and I hope that I am just worrying unnecessarily – but for my own peace of mind I would very much like to speak with a qualified accountant/tax advisor before submitting my visa application. Basically just to confirm that what I am planning to do in France is compliant from a tax perspective, and to understand where I should be paying tax on my salary etc. Feel it’s worth explaining that I do want to pay income taxes and social security contributions in France, as the country I will be living in and where I intend to spend most of my time, even if that involves a pay cut on my part – but I’ve been told it is simply not possible on a visitor visa. So, I am a bit confused as to how to move forward.
Could you kindly help me with this, can you recommend or refer me to an English-speaking accountant/tax advisor in France? I’m obviously happy to pay for a consultation and provide whatever information/documentation may be needed. I will also require their assistance in the future to file tax returns, whenever the time comes.
Hello Lau, thanks for reading and for outlining your situation. All of the tax and accountant contacts we have specialize in US taxes, but I’m going to send a few emails to see if they recommend anyone. I’ll CC you — keep an eye out for a message from me!
Thanks Stephen for helping out so many people with this tricky subject. I’ve skimmed through and I don’t think my kind of query has been answered before – forgive me if I missed something though!
I’m a service provider working in the audio-visual field. I’m registered as a freelancer in Australia, and I still do work for clients in Australia since living in France. I will soon be going onto my first year on CDS Vie Privee which allows me to work in the country. I intend to start a micro-enterprise in France to keep things above board for local clients. However it would be preferable to pay tax in Australia if possible (yes there is a double taxation treaty).
So the question is, as I’m living for most of the year and physically doing the work in France, what are the French tax implications of invoicing with my Australian company and being paid into Australian bank account by: clients in Australia, vs clients in France, vs clients from 3rd countries?
I feel like French clients in particular is a little on the dark grey end of the grey zone, but it would be great to have something more to go by than a “feeling”.
And then the follow up question – will filing my taxes as Australian fiscal resident, French tax non-resident work against me for renewal of the carte de séjour?
Or even if I could meet criteria for fiscal residency in Australia, by virtue of spending more than 6 months in France will I be obliged to file as a tax resident in France anyway?
Let’s start with the last question first. I don’t know of any scenario in which you can renew a French visa as a non-tax-resident of France. Remember that at your first renewal, if it’s only after a year, you’re unlikely to have a tax return handy, just because of how the calendar works (someone arrives in June 2026, but by June 2027, he/she still won’t have a return to present at an appointment, for example). But the French are not going to accept any further renewals while you continue to assert that you’re a tax resident of another country.
As the article says and as I try to reiterate in the comments, you can live in France as a remote worker. But you’ll still have to file taxes. Everyone has to file taxes if you’re a resident. You have a vie privee anyway so the fears of the people in the comments don’t really apply to you.
Further, you’re talking about starting a business in France to deal with “French clients” but France is part of the EU. You could incorporate anywhere else (Bulgaria for example) and still bill those French clients. Your Australian company could bill French clients.
The premise of your main question implies that people who reside in France are not allowed to have entities in other countries, and must discriminate about which clients they take for those foreign entities based on the physical location of the client. The answer to that question really has nothing to do with immigration, and only a limited bit to do with taxation, as wherever you’re billing from is going to be the country interested in taxation. If your Australian business is doing business with French clients, it really doesn’t matter where on the planet you are, either to the French or to the Australians, as long as wherever you are staying, you are doing so legally.
We are not qualified to advise you on the best tax setup for your personal circumstances. That’s a conversation you should have with a qualified accountant. If you use the contact us form we would be glad to connect you.
To sum up:
You cannot maintain a visa in France without asserting French fiscal residency.
You can live in France and do work remotely for another company, even your own company, even on a visitor visa. Your vie privee visa gives you even more “gray” latitude.
You don’t need to have a French entity to bill French clients.
You don’t need to live in France to bill French clients.
You have no moral or legal restriction preventing you from having French clients, no matter where you live in the world.
Hi Stephen,
This is a great article, that appears to be “ageless” since I’ve found it long after you originally posted it.
My question doesn’t seem to have been answered here, previously. And I’ve asked been inquiring about the way to proceed since long before we applied for our long stay visas to retire in France. We now live in the south of France. We moved here from the USA, earlier this year.
I shoot and edit videos, mostly for our own “memories” but I created a YouTube channel, years ago, before we moved to France. Currently, I have continued to shoot the videos here in France sharing our new home, places we visited for lunch or dinner, our travels, and created some videos on how we applied to get our long stay visas, how we applied to get on CPAM and exchange our driver’s licenses, and any other processes, I felt others might be interested in learning about, whether they are thinking about retiring in France, already here or are armchair travelers. My channel is monetized and the monthly “royalties” are deposited to my Wise card as US dollars.
Before moving here I had asked an immigration attorney who did a seminar, what type of visa she thought we needed to apply for since I don’t consider making YouTube videos a “job” and I do them more as a hobby. We have sufficient income and savings from our Social Security benefits and modest savings and investments, to qualify for the Visas. She told me that since the money I receive for the monetization is really just a royalty and if I stopped making the videos, the money will probably still keep being earned according to how many people watch the old videos, the income should be considered just “passive” income. Clearly I’m not doing this to support my husband and I. She said when we applied for the Visas I should just note that it is “additional income”/royalties. We average maybe $100-140US per month +/-. When we filed our US tax returns last year before moving, I reported the income as “royalties”. We’re getting close to the time when we have to renew our long stay Visas, here in France. So, I’m wondering if you think I should approach the renewal as I did the original application, and simply call it “additional income”. We are retired and may still have to pay taxes on it in the US (not sure about France) if our joint come warrants it and I have no problem reporting it as “other income” when reporting worldwide income, when we do our first France tax return next year.
Someone on one of the “France/Visa/Legal” forums on Facebook, stated that YouTube creators have to apply for a different type of Visa because I’m shooting and editing the videos IN FRANCE. I mentioned that I am not doing this to support ourselves and it’s really nothing more than putting our “home movies” up on social media. I don’t sell any products or services in the videos. Clearly we’re not receiving enough to support anything more than a nice dinner out once a month. And it’s actually costing me money (with subscriptions for editing software and music) to maintain the channel and edit the videos. So there aren’t really any profits from doing this.
What are your thoughts on how I renew my VLS-TS visa? Should I just call it “additional income” and not mention that I make and publish the videos while living here in France?
I would simply say that you’re not required to disclose all of your world wide income on the renewal of a visitor visa. You simply need to be showing your French personal bank statements and your tax returns. The French have no reason to ask for your foreign bank accounts or earnings. After all, this is a renewal, which has the character of proving that you are living in France, as opposed to the original visa application which was to show that you *could* live in France. The barrier is much lower.
Way back when I had a visitor visa, I did not disclose my worldwide assets.
Basic principle: do not give the French more than they ask for. It never leads anywhere good.
My thoughts on the FB Kens/Karens whose sole joy in life is giving inaccurate, and often “bad news” to people, have already been shared in these comments many times. 🙂
Thanks but if most of our money is still in US bank accounts and our IRA accounts, in the US, that we provided to get our initial Long Stay Visitor’s visa, won’t we need to show those particular bank account statements again (since France knows the exist from our initial Visa application) , or will our Social Security benefit statements and the France bank account statement showing the money deposited by SS (which is more than enough to meet the minimum financial requirements), be sufficient?
This is a bit of a problem. You should have opened a French bank account and run all your “living in France” expenses out of there. On your renewal, the French then look through those bank statements to see that you’re living here and that you’re not getting a French paycheck. You’re in France now, which means all your bureaucratic appointments are in French, unlike your initial US application, which was in English, so you may have to get your US bank statements translated into French so the bureaucracy can “read” them. You should have been depositing your US monies into a French account and living off that, not living out of your US accounts. If I’ve misunderstood you please clarify.
Renewing a visa is a totally different experience (i.e. it’s much easier) than getting a visa. They aren’t really looking for sufficiency of funds any more because the fact you showed up not homeless/very ill to the appointment is its own proof. They want to see that you have a French bank account and are living here. On my first visitor renewal the lady leafed through my bank accounts at roughly ten seconds per page as she just scanned the line items.
Gotcha!
We DID open a French bank account once we got to France and have our US Social Security benefit payments deposited into that account and we use that account for all of our expenses here in France. All of our savings and investment accounts are in the US. We rarely, if ever, remove any money from those US accounts, other than occasionally to pay a US credit card bill. We don’t use that money to live here in France.
So, it sounds like for our renewal, we don’t even have to remind them that we also have US bank accounts since we don’t use any of the money in the US to live here. We can just provide our Credit Agricole statements showing our SS checks being deposited each month and our outgoing rent, utilities and other expenses from shopping and traveling.
Correct! You are not re-applying for the original visa with all the burdens of proof that required. This is a renewal which has a lower burden of proof.
You are simply proving that you are doing what you said you would do, and that’s living off your income in France. Do not present any other information or statements beyond your French bank account.
Core rule for life in France: do not give the French more than they ask for, but always have more than they ask for in a folder in case they ask 🙂
Hi Stephen
Thanks for this – I might actually be able to sleep at night tonight. I live in France and have an Irish passport while my daughter lives in UK, has a UK passport and works remotely. She needs to come and stay with us for a while and work remotely after a relationship breakdown. I’ve been worrying that she can only stay three months, and that she’d be breaking the law by working remotely while she’s here. But from what you’ve written she could apply for a visitor visa with pay slips from working remotely and stay longer as long as she sorted out tax etc? I’ve been slapped down a few times in FB groups for asking this question, so this seems like a breath of fresh air and common sense! thanks.
I’ll never understand the “purpose” and “joy” these digital Kens and Karens have in pretending that they represent the sharp edge of French law. To date they have never presented a single case that accords with their world view (someone fined/deported). Until they do, let common sense prevail. 🙂
Hi Stephen, Question about renewal/bank account, we have a wise account, if I transfer funds for paying our rent, insurance, etc., in France, does that suffice or we should open an account in a local bank? Also I was interested in getting a tax specialist referral and was not sure how/where to request that from you. Thanks for all your help. I reference your articles ALL the time, and people still don’t believe me when I say you can work remotely. I recently got my visa noting my US employer and handed in my paystubs with no problem.
We continue to stress that opening a French bank account is absolutely key. A Wise account is practical in general to have as a backup account/transfer partner, but immigration wants a French bank account, and you have a right to get one as a French resident.
This article is written for Americans living in France, so it makes sense all of the French websites linked are in the French language 😉 If you’re having trouble, I know Google has a great translation feature that works on most websites.
Sorta comical that after the initial translation of the splash page all their websites go white with Google……..Complete the information below to be contacted…….then there is nothing there! I do love French marketing!
Stephen, thank you for all you do and your integrity.
FYI, that person who runs an expensive French immigration hustle telling folks incorrectly that people cannot do remote work on a visitor visa is at it again. On a French-UK emigration channel she inaccurately asserts that visitor status is only for “secondary” home owners and retirees_old folks. But to work remotely, one needs the PL visa etc etc you catch the drift all for $$££$££. The kicker is she married a French person for her “visa” and did not earn it through merit and talent.
Something really needs to be done bc this person is likely costing decent people thousands of dollars for her con sultantship and their time, emotions, etc.. Is there an ethics board or department in France for business ethics, etc.?
Alas a legal action needs to be brought forward by her victims. Those of us who simply “know” about her don’t have standing to bring a case. We have to have been injured in some way. Best we can do is counter her lies here. And she has google alerts set up so she knows we are actively opposing her position.
I agree. I am reading that persons book and she has been less than nice to me online. I have countered with my own book-and I have referred people to reading this article (I hope that’s okay-if not, I will remove it).
Don’t be shy, drop her name! I am curious if it’s the same woman I’ve had negative run-ins with… I can’t tell if she’s a grifter or if I just don’t like her.
Dear Stephen,
I was extremely worried about remote work on “Visitor” visa and for last two days, was seriously thinking of taking some other route till I came across this post. Needless to say that I read all the comments and your very nice detailed replies in one breath. So much relieved after reading all and want to seriously thank you from bottom of my heart. However, still have some points little different in my case and would request you to take out time to give some guidance.
I am an engineering consultant from India having a sole proprietorship firm having an office and few people working for me here in India. I can control office remotely as my team is taking care of most of the things. The questions I have are as follows:
1. As I understand from post and your answers till now, one can work remotely as an employee or self employed single working person. Is it true for my case also where I own a sole proprietorship firm? Kindly suggest.
2. I run my business by a trade name and since it’s a sole proprietorship, the income tax returns are submitted in my personal name. I don’t draw a regular money from the account but transfer to my personal account as and when required. Will the receipts (income) in the proprietorship account be accepted as my means of sustenance in France as I don’t draw a salary as such.
3. Should I mention my sole proprietorship firm in the visa application at all or just show my savings and investments as my means of sustenance? What do you suggest?
Thank you very much for already making my head 10 pounds lighter.
Just to add, as India has double taxation treaty with France, do I have to pay tax on my income earned in India after 183 days in France or just declare (mention) it?
We are Retired US Citizens currently living in Spain on a Golden Visa. We are seriously thinking about renting or buying a house in France to live in May 15 > Oct 31 = 169 days, so we will need a Visa good for 6 months only. In this way we will not be considered Taxable Income Residents, correct? The question is can we apply for this Visa at a French Consulate in Spain or is there some other process?
You can apply in Spain as you are French residents, just keep in mind that this a nonrenewable visa and you’ll need to renew every year.
But this is an academic exercise. Your Spanish residency effectively allows you to come and go from France as you please. You’re not subject to the 90-day Schengen calculator, primarily because there is no passport control between the two countries.
Dear Stephen,
I was extremely worried about remote work on “Visitor” visa and for last two days, was seriously thinking of taking some other route till I came across this post. Needless to say that I read all the comments and your very nice detailed replies in one breath in your other blog on “Can one do remote work on visitor visa?”. So much relieved after reading all and want to seriously thank you from bottom of my heart. However, still have some points little different in my case and would request you to take out time to give some guidance.
I am an engineering consultant from India having a sole proprietorship firm having an office and few people working for me here in India. I can control office remotely as my team is taking care of most of the things. The questions I have are as follows:
1. As I understand from post and your answers till now, one can work remotely as an employee or self employed single working person. Is it true for my case also where I own a sole proprietorship firm? Kindly suggest.
2. I run my business by a trade name and since it’s a sole proprietorship, the income tax returns are submitted in my personal name. I don’t draw a regular money from the account but transfer to my personal account as and when required. Will the receipts (income) in the proprietorship account be accepted as my means of sustenance in France as I don’t draw a salary as such.
3. Should I mention my sole proprietorship firm in the visa application at all or just show my savings and investments as my means of sustenance? What do you suggest?
Thank you very much for already making my head 10 pounds lighter.
Alas, Manish, I am doomed forever to read “my case is slightly different…” until we shut down comments for this post 🙂
1. I’ve always thought it best to use trade names instead of sole proprietorships. The French are so thoroughly employment-oriented that it feels strange to them to see a letter written by yourself attesting that you will pay yourself. In cases of a DBA or an LLC I’ve advised people to use a shareholder or empower a family or friend on a one-time basis to write the attestation of your income. It’s best to have some kind of distance so that the French can see that as an “employment” letter, which is what the box on the visa says, not “self-employment” which may lead them to tell you you’re applying for the wrong visa, and should apply for the Profession Liberale.
2. The French have no idea what the status of the bank account is; what matters to them is the funds that it contains. If it has your name attached to it, and the funds are sufficient, that’s all that matters.
3. If your savings and investments meet the SMIC (French minimum wage) I see no reason to mention the employment you have (whatever form it takes) as it’s not relevant.
If you continue to work for your US company but live in France, do you continue to have them pay you as though you were still in the US and then declare the total on the Worldwide income line of the French tax return, apply US tax credits and France taxes you on the difference?
We don’t give individual tax advice here for many reasons. Please consult a professional. If you don’t know one, use the contact form to email us and we will connect you.
I get that remote work is okay, but I get anxiety thinking about the tax part of it. Am I treating taxes like I am working in the US-just leave that part alone, then enter the worldwide income on my French tax return-and pay the tax difference from what I paid in the US to what I owe in France? This part really has me stressed out. Thanks.
Thank you very much for the reply. Please excuse me the phrase. This is basically a result of the anxiety one gets from all these processes and misinformation on net. The problem is that I am working with the name “Manish Consultants”. It’s not an LLC or anything. Even if I authorise someone to write a letter in my name, the correlation with company name is clearly visible. I also have another similar firm by another name not related to me. I can get a letter written from that. However, won’t it be clear in my tax returns later on? Or as you have said in number of cases that it will be just a line in the returns? I understand that it would also be better to consult an accountant at this stage. Request if you can connect with someone qualified.
Thank you for the great insights and information provided in a wonderful and clear writing style.
Did you end up submitting the motivation letter even though it was not required? If so, where did you end it?
Btw, did you hear from them regarding your application after the initial notification/acknowledgement?
Only had the interview today, I had it ready to go but realized that it wasn’t necessary given everything else. That letter plus the two letters of recommendation I had with me ended up staying in my folder. I may end up sending them anyway, as I have the email of the lady handling my case, but I’ll ask her before just sending it blindly.
I don’t expect a decision right away, but no later than June 2025.
Is it possible to have both the CDI in a French company and also have a micro enterprise on the side ?
What type of business would you suggest for as a commision agent ?
Is it possible for 2 people to be registered under a micro enteprise ? If not , can we add the person as co-partner ?
Thanks for reading! It depends on the type of visa you have — is it directly tied to your CDI? In that case the answer would be no, you can’t open a side business. If you have a more general visa, like a VPF, that’s a different story. It sounds like the company structure you’re hoping to create goes beyond the auto-entrepreneur status, you can’t add someone as a co-partner on a micro entreprise.
Hey thanks a lot for this useful post, will the criminal record/background check also need to be as recent as 3 months? I would assume not since you have been living in france and this document concerns a time period before you moved to France. Then technically it is valid as long as it is obtained anytime after your relocation to France?
Polly the three-month thing is usually just for an Electricity bill. Translations have long been valid for much longer than they used to be in the past. My background check was almost a year old by the time it was processed as were the translations. As I noted, once you’ve been here ten years, which I was awful close to at the time of submission, it’s not even necessary.
I arrived in France in November 2019 and received a retirement visa in 2020, which I have renewed 4 times. Would I be allowed to apply for a ten year visa now or do I have to wait another year? Obviously I’d rather have a ten year visa sooner rather than later, so is it worth a try anyway?
Hi Stephen! You mention in other blogs that a long-stay visitor visa is not a path to citizenship. But would it be if you have a long stay visitor visa renewed for five continuous years, then switch to a 10-year residence card and integrate (work, language, paying taxes)—wouldn’t you then be eligible to apply for citizenship at some point to the course of the 10-year residence?
Sure, but then you aren’t getting a citizenship from visitor status, but from a ten-year card, which is the most muscular visa status you can have as a foreigner in France. In some ways, the sort of screening they are doing these days for a ten-year card is even more stringent than that for nationality!
What I mean, and what I maintain, is that I’ve never heard of anyone getting citizenship from visitor status itself. The case you are proposing is someone getting citizenship from Carte de Resident status, which is an entirely different classification. Visitor is not, itself, a path to citizenship.
As to the “some point” you refer to, it would need to be at least five years after the commencement of taxpaying, which would be well within that ten-year window. Your clock would actually start from when you start paying taxes, not from when you’ve been a resident, because as a visitor you aren’t paying taxes.
Thank you Stephen—I appreciate all you do with this blog and your thoroughness. It’s the best!
I guess if I understand correctly, a lot of it is a matter of how much time you have to commit, what you qualify for at which times, etc.
One thing I wanted to confirm if you have a moment—can someone who renews their long-stay visitor visa annually for five years qualify to apply for a 10-year-resident card (let’s say they develop strong language skills, file taxes but don’t pay taxes every year, have a residence)?
Or is it once a visitor, only a visitor, and one would need to muscle their way in with a different visa status once they can obtain it (i.e. profession liberale, student, marriage or other)?
All the best to you!
Hi,
I also arrived in France around the same time as you with a one-year visitor visa because I’ve been PACSed with a French guy since September 2019. I then converted that visa into a TDS-VPF for the following four years. I thought that after living here for five years, I’d be eligible to apply for the 10-year residency card. However, when I submitted my application, the prefecture told me that the first year I spent in France doesn’t count towards the five-year residency requirement for the 10-year card since I was on a long stay visitor visa during the 1st year in FR. So, I don’t think a visitor visa allows you to apply for the 10-year residency card regardless of how many times your renew it or how long you stay here. Same applies for the citizenship.
Hi Stephen, thanks for the informative article. I wanted to check how long before you got the DELF results?
Additionally, did you have to wait for 6 months to get the diploma to apply for citizenship or were the test results (meant to arrive in 1 month) sufficient?
Thanks a lot!
It was not anywhere close to six months for the results. Maybe six weeks at the most.
In any case, as I noted in my articles on the citizenship process, this was not actually the last piece I needed, as I had more difficulties with other paperwork. This was actually one of the easiest bits. 🙂
I’ve been following your posts about naturalisation as I’m about the same timing as you with my application.
However, my « demande déposée » or « confirmation de dépôt » arrived only in July even though I first submitted my documents ie « demande envoyée » in April – so 3 months wait. However it would have been only 2 months, as they requested for 7 documents to be resubmitted in June eg « demande de complement » email e.g. scan ALL passport pages, apostille with my birth certificate, various work contracts, P237 form etc. It took me about a month to get it all sorted and resubmitted. The apostille was the biggest waiting time as I’m Australian but born in the Philippines – luckily I have relatives that helped me. Goes to show that your paperwork skills need to be in top gear (even though I have an immigration lawyer helping me…)
Thankfully, this week after waiting an additional 5 months, it went from « Demande déposée » to « traitement en cours ». I guess now the various departments are evaluating the documents contents, so maybe in 2-3 months I’ll hear back to receive the « Completude de Dossier de Demande de Naturalisation » email based on your timings and then the interview date, assuming all goes well with the proper document review.
Anyway I do have a question. I’m incredibly nervous about the assimilation interview as my French speaking and listening skills are terrible. I have the DELF B1, which I barely passed, but I can get by day to day. I’ve never been gifted at language learning even though I practice often, go to classes etc. I’m reading the livret (even made 100 Quizlet e-cards!), brushing up on cultural knowledge and my motivations etc However during the interview, how do you think I should manage my very basic French oral skills? Do you think they will consider this as not assimilating enough even though I may have answered their questions?
How did your immigration lawyer allow you to submit a dossier with all of those things missing? You should get a refund! 🙂
They expect B1 competence, no more. If you “barely” passed I would get up to a level in which you are much better. You are going to need to discuss a number of things in French during your interview (article coming soon) and you need to get beyond “very basic French oral skills” because if you don’t, all the knowledge you’re working on now won’t matter, as you won’t be able to express yourself.
It is a reasonable demand for a country to demand that naturalized citizens be able to answer basic questions about history, literature, geography and more intermediate questions about government and public policy. I would spend as much as you can working on your speaking with the French. It may not sink your application, but it won’t reflect well if you cannot express yourself well in your interview.
Thank you for the above. You say “The only exception is when investing in a French (PER) or US Pension (IRA, 401k). Under the tax treaty, the French pension is only taxed in France and the US Pension is only taxed in the US. That means that you can hold any foreign funds inside the pension without worrying about the taxation of the investment”. Does that mean that I (a US citizen, French resident ) can invest in a PER and NOT have it considered a PIFC by the IRS ? Many thanks in advance for your reply.
We don’t give investment or tax advice here. If you’d like to get personalized advice about your situation, Cedric Bernier is linked at the top of the article and they will be happy to help you.
I am a UK national living in France and will be applying for renewal of titre de sejour at start of 2025. I came to live in France on a long stay visitor visa. However, I have recently been asked by some of my ex-clients in the UK to do remote graphic work for them. I am not an employee of any of those clients, only acting as a freelancer, is this ok?
As I’ve said many times in many ways, France has no moral or legal right over the work you do in other countries until such time as they pass a law governing remote work in relation to visa status.
I have some questions about renewing my professional liberal status in France. I am currently on a one year title de séjour and would like to renew mine but I have not made nearly enough thé SMIC. around 6000 euros in the year. Please let me know if it is still possible for me to renew and the process I should follow as I have been looking online and have not been able to find any clear information on how to proceed. Please let me know if you can help me out and i will be very grateful for your help!
Your chances of renewal are low, unless you have a very good explanation for why you made so little. They may put you on a provisional 3-6-9-12 month version of the visa and have you come back with more income during the time frame. If you match their expectations, you have a chance of getting a four year card.
Are you sure that a visitor visa qualifies for the 10-year residency card? I’ve been living in France for 5 years, but only my first year was under long stay one year visitor visa. For the last 4 years, I’ve held a “carte de séjour” VPF. A few days ago, I had an interview at the prefecture to renew my card, during which I specifically requested the 10-year card and provided all the required documents, language test, taxes, bank statements…etc. However, I was informed that I need one more year of residency under my current status to meet the 5-year residency requirement. According to them, the first year doesn’t count because it was under a long stay visitor visa. Based on this, I don’t believe the visitor visa qualifies you to apply for the 10-year card as mentioned in this post. Thoughts?
I don’t think your conclusion is correct, in part because I know people who got a ten-year card from visitor status. 😉
Could it be perhaps that you didn’t have five years of tax returns? For the ten-year card the time living in France is less relevant than the number of tax returns you have, and perhaps with five years you only have four avis d’impot, and sloppily, whomever conveyed the message to you somehow missed that a visitor visa is not some “leper” status that doesn’t qualify for a ten-year card…you have to be a fiscal resident of France, even on visitor status, and that is only one part of your qualification anyway. Did you file a return when you were a visitor? If not, that’s the answer to why you didn’t get it.
Thanks for your response. I just saw your message. I’ve filed a French tax return for every year I’ve lived here, including the year I was a visitor. However, you’re correct that I only have 4 avis d’impôt instead of 5, since I officially moved to France on the last day of December 2019. According to the tax office, I didn’t have to file taxes for 2019, and I haven’t filed my 2024 taxes yet. So, at the end of this month, I will have officially completed 5 years of residency in France. It’s also the date my current TDS expires. Every renewal so far has aligned with the previous expiration date.
I think you may be right—maybe the worker at the prefecture made a mistake. They did, however, ask me to provide my 2019 tax returns, which didn’t make sense to me since I officially lived in France for less than 24 hours in 2019. I gave them my U.S. tax returns instead, and they accepted them.
Assuming they only grant me a 2-year renewal instead of a 10-year carte de séjour, do you think I’ll be able to request the 10-year card after filing my 2024 French taxes next year? Or would I have to wait until the next renewal of what I assume will be a 2-year card? The timing of my move makes this so tricky! I did provide them with pay stubs and bank statements for 2024 since I didn’t have the tax return for this year yet. So there is still chance maybe I will get the 10 years card. But if you think the residency doesn’t matter and it’s all about how many tax returns I have then yes you are correct. I don’t have one yet for the 5th year. Thank you,
Ned
I’m not implying you need to file for that year. I arrived December 13th myself, so didn’t file that year either.
I just think the “proof” is what the French are always looking for in bureaucratic functions and the only proof we would have is the passport stamp next to our original visa, but I’ve never been asked for that in any context outside of my first OFII visit. Additionally, everything administrative I’ve participated in since then that requires “proof” has always revolved around French tax returns, including my recently-submitted citizenship application. When you say “2-year renewal” are you on vie privee? That’s the only visa classification I know that does 2-year renewals.
I think if you think of the math of it, you will only be in possession of the “fifth year” after the renewal, whereas what the ten year card is asking is for five years at the time of submitting. So, since you haven’t renewed yet, you only will have four years at the time of submitting, which makes you ineligible.
Whatever the functionary is saying, I think you’re going to be fine applying at your next renewal. You cannot request an early renewal without a serious reason, i.e. change of status (marriage/divorce).
Hi,
Yes, I have a VPF. There’s no rush; it’s just about renewing and making payments more frequently. I guess I can wait and see.
Dear Stephen,
I’m currently employed as a software engineer but I plan to take a sabbatical and enjoy life as a tourist in France for a year and start a remote business based in the US. On my visa application, is it advisable to put unemployed (since I will be quitting my job in March 2025), self-employed even though I have not officially incorporated the business, or should I put my current employer?
Thanks so much for your reply! I’m currently employed but I noticed that the form requires the phone and email of my employer. I have not informed them of my move abroad and plans to quit as this could put me at risk for retaliation and poor performance reviews (which is not uncommon at my company). I’m hoping to only give them a 2 weeks notice. Would there be any harm in marking myself as unemployed since I have the necessary savings?
That’s good to know Stephen! I’ll mark myself as unemployed. I tried sending an email for a paid consultation to you but I had trouble sending it through. Could I schedule one with you just to make sure all of the documents I have are good to go?
Thank you for this, it is so helpful. I’m an American on a work visa in the UK, and looking to move back to France (where I previously had a student visa).
I have a full-time salaried role in the UK and have freelance clients on the side who pay me directly into my bank account.
I was, like many, convinced that PL made the most sense for me, and was planning to go freelance with my full-time role and continue working with other clients (I have even discussed it with my employer). Now, I’m not so sure.
Would I not be able to continue to be paid in pounds/dollars in an american or british bank account on PL? I know I’d need interest from French clients for the application and would intend to secure said clients.
I can’t tell if long stay visitor makes the most sense. If anyone has thoughts, they would be much appreciated
as an aside some of my freelance clients in the UK include taxes in the paystubs, so I don’t have to file them to the UK. But it seems like i would then be double taxed on them if i got PL.
Why would the French approve you to start a French company and then benefit another country (i.e. have deposits go somewhere outside of France)?
A PL visa is about you starting a French company in France, meaning you are going to get paid in euros to your French freelancing business. You can continue to get paid wherever else you want for some segment of your business, but none of that income will be counted towards your PL business, which needs to be at a certain income level every year in order to stay valid.
If you’d like to do a consultation to look at your specific case, feel free to make a booking in the sidebar and we can chat more. 🙂
Thank you so much for the thoughtful and detailed post. I am US/CAN dual citizen with American parentage. I have been a little confused in my research so please don’t take my collection of questions as disrespect for your own research or laziness on my part – I just can’t seem to understand what to do on these despite my research and so would greatly appreciate your thoughts if available.
1)I was brought to US in my parents’ car as an infant but was born in Canada. I’m the privileged color in America to not get asked many questions (sigh), so we didn’t even know I didn’t have a social security number until I was 14 when we went to apply for my first passport. This means I have all my passports but nonaturalization papers. I *think* I understood that this may be okay (I’m just at longterm visa application stage presently), but if you know different please warn me :).
2)As with many adults in the west, I have no contact options to reach my family and I do not know where my parents were married or born. I have a couple guesses but I truly don’t actually know. Do I understand correctly that we need parents’ birth certificates in addition to our own? Did I also understand from your post that we need parents’ marriage certificate (even though lots of parents aren’t married)?
3)You briefly mentioned the marriage/divorce certificate/s. Is this necessary to provide even if one is no longer married and their name matches birth certificate name? I have all my documents related to marriage but I am not married anymore and such documents translated would present significant expense since they are many pages each. So, I just want to make sure I either budget a lot or don’t do unnecessary work if I don’t need to.
I recently responded to a gentleman who was asserting that he could apply for citizenship from a long-term stay visitor status. I told him that would not be possible. If you scroll down to my reply to someone named “Jay” you’ll see why. So I just want to make it clear, at the outset, that if you were planning a path to citizenship via long-term stay visa, that’s not a direct path. The best that could be hoped for would be obtaining a 10 year card in 5-6 years time, and then obtaining work in France and applying 4-5 years after that.
1) You do not need your birth certificate in order to get a visa, but you will definitely need it, translated and apostilled, when it comes to your first renewal.
2) You 100% will need both of your parents’ birth certificates. For the question of nationality, they will have to give you a French birth certificate, and they can’t do that if they haven’t done due diligence on the people who would be named on that French birth certificate. If your parents were never married you are going to need some kind of legal attestation stating this to be the case.
3) JJ referring back to point 2 this is a due diligence situation. Think of it like applying for a loan at a bank. If you just told them, “I used to be married, but I’m not anymore, just take my word for it, we don’t need those papers,” how do you think that will fly? Now upgrade it to asking a country to make you a citizen and realize how strange that would be. You are going to need all of those documents, yes, translated, yes citizenship is not an inexpensive thing.
But I really don’t know why you are asking about all this stuff now. You are not remotely eligible for citizenship. You should focus on finding a visa that makes sense for your situation and your goals in France. I or any of my colleagues would be happy to help you with that. Feel free to use the contact us form in the sidebar to make an appointment.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for more lovely and informative prose. Do you happen to know what the physical involves even though you did not have to do it? I am medically retired – nothing infectious or dramatic (except for bringing my life to kind of a standstill relative to its earlier pace), but chronic illnesses that frequently fall into the “invisible disability” category. I would want to make sure I am not on a fool’s errand trying to come to France, if there is a physical :). Thank you so much!
Hey, merry christmas! Thanks for your very informative postings. I am on my third year or a visitor titre de sejour. I am retired from the US. My goal is to apply for citizenship as soon as I am able, mainly because I realize that laws regarding immigration may well change here in the coming years. When I come up for renewal during my 5th year here, should I apply for a 10 year residency card and then apply for citizenship later? What other options do I have at that point? Is there a four year visa after 5 years of residency here? I realize that you are in a difference category of visa, but maybe you could point me in the right direction. Thanks.
I’m sorry to be the first person to tell you this, but you’re not eligible to apply for citizenship in France on a visitor visa.
One of the major criteria for citizenship is “attachment to France.” In your citizenship dossier and in your interview this is scrutinized in obvious ways that I’m sure you already meet: familiarity with the country and its laws, French friends, perhaps even French associations you are part of.
However, “attachment to France” is also qualified by where your income is derived from. If the majority of your income is derived outside of France and you have no real record of paying French taxes (only of filing them, which as a visitor, you should have) you don’t have a shot at citizenship.
I would encourage you to go for a ten-year card, as it is a very robust status and conveys the right to work, which you could then use to get a job which could then be taxed and after 4-5 years of paying into the French system and showing a majority of your income as derived from France, not abroad, you will have a decent shot at citizenship.
I don’t mean to convey that a 10-year card is a cakewalk, as they seem to be scrutinizing dossiers for “attachment to France” in a way that wasn’t the case 10-15 years ago.
Hope that helps.
PS final note it is not your “years of residency” that matter but the number of tax attestations you have. Someone who has lived in France five years may only have four tax attestations, and that key piece of paperwork is what the French rely on for these processes, not the actual date we arrived in France.
I’m planning to move my family to France mid-2025, not just because we love it but also to enjoy the superior healthcare l. My husband will be receiving his disability retirement check (and my minor son through him as well). He’ll definitely go for the long-term visitor visa.
I currently contract for a company where I was previously employed for over 20 years (but they wanted me back :-p). Two big questions:
I checked with the contractor about remote working from abroad and they said the company doesn’t allow it. I wonder if they would if they could be relieved of the worry of tax implications.
1. Might there be some official documentation I could provide to relieve them of this worry to help me obtain the coveted “employer letter”?
And
2. Would I be able to enjoy the French national healthcare system—would definitely pay for it (how & how much?)—as a person living there and working remotely for a U.S. company?
Thanks so much for this information, as I was following the “absolutely can’t remote work” advice as well. If I can, it would make things so much simpler for us!
There is no official documentation your employer is going to receive from France that gives them “peace of mind” about taxation. I don’t see why you need to tell them where you are. Just contract with them as a 1099 using a US corporation.
When you say the “French national healthcare system” it has the same availability to foreigners as the US system does. It’s just that things cost less. You can use “assurance etrangers” for your first few months before entering the health care system officially (article on the website here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/12/13/how-to-get-a-numero-provisoire/ )
Just as a note, for someone who had a PPO in the US for many years prior to moving to France there is no difference in the quality of care or access to specialists. If you have a decent plan in the US you aren’t going to notice much difference in France in terms of how you’re treated but you are going to have a significantly smaller pool of doctors who speak your language.
As far as how I’m contracting, I’m actually a W-2 employee of the company contracting with my former employer. They’re the ones who said “Former Employer X” doesn’t want those of us with working through them to work abroad. So I guess I’ll have to noodle with this to see if I can convince THEM or move on to another work option.
I akid always retained top health insurance but did not experience how really poor our system is until having to deal with a serious health concern (husband now has Parkinson’s). It’s a truly disjointed, profits-first system—and we’re with “the best” specialists in the region. People literally languish and die.
It appears coordinated care may be incentivized in France (or at least patient-wellness-first is the default orientation). And as he has a “maladie de longue durée” and will eventually be covered at 100%, we’ll receive better care while also avoiding going bankrupt in the process. Bonus!
Really enjoy your site; it’s an invaluable resource. 🙂
I working to establish a new remote business here in the US so that I can use it to apply for the Profession Libérale Visa in about two years. My question is: I will likely also still have income coming in from my current business in an unrelated field for a few years after we relocate. Based on your description of how the French view this visa, would it be best if I kept the current income generating business completely separate in order to keep things clean and easy to understand on the visa application? I ask because in order to do this I was thinking I’d establish a separate dba within my current S Corp for the new business. I’m in the early stages of building this second business and want to set it up with the specific intention of getting a Profession Libérale Visa.
If you think that you need to establish a remote business in the US in order to get the PL visa I’ve somehow failed to communicate the message. The PL visa is about your creating a new business in France. The French don’t care what you are doing outside of France. They only want to determine whether you can start a new business in France, with some French clients. Having an American S Corp, etc. is an important part of a global tax strategy, but it has nothing to do with your French immigration process or the PL visa.
If you’d like more clarity, consider buying our course or scheduling a private consultation.
Hi Stephen,
My situation is that I would like to emigrate to France from the US in July or August of this year and apply 3 months before departure for a long stay visa. In my first year in France I would be a digital nomad independent contractor. My earned income would be derived from my current US employer, where instead of my being an employee, I would become an independent contractor for with them as my sole client. In the following year, I would retire with the bulk of my income being passive.
One of my goals would be, if possible, to minimize French taxation on my US based independent contractor income for the first year.
My questions are:
1. What type of Visa should I apply for. At the moment I assuming a long stay visa would be the most suitable.
2. Is there way to incorporate, given my business model, such that my income would be subject to French corporate tax rates, versus French income tax rates?
3. I want to join the French health care system as soon as possible after my arrival.
4. Though unlikely, my company could procure a French client that I could work with directly from France.
Based on what I have read in this blog, it appears you view is that a long term stay visa would suffice and that I would be subject to French income taxes on my first year independent contractor income.
If you are here on a visitor visa, there is no “French taxation” as America has a tax treaty and you will pay taxes on your US income to the US and then report your AGI (as already taxed) on your French return (there’s a line item for it).
As for questions 2 and 4 I don’t know where you are going with this. Creating a French company has nothing to do with a visitor visa. And if your current employer were to “procure you a French client” you would almost certainly be in direct violation of your visitor visa and the attestation “not to work in France.”
As for your last sentence “based on what I have read in this blog…” your conclusion is totally opposite to the information that I have shared in this article and in the comments. As a remote worker of the US, you are subject to US taxation. As a French fiscal resident you are obliged to FILE taxes, not to PAY taxes. You may have other French investments, like real estate, for example, that oblige you to pay taxes, but you have an eagerness to enter the French fiscal system as a taxpayer on a visitor visa which is a contradictory position.
Feel free to schedule a consultation if you’d like more clarity.
Sorry for commenting on an old post – but you mentioned something in here I wanted to clarify with you. Specifically this bit:
“Today is eight days after I successfully changed to a Profession Libérale visa. As long as I earn a certain income over the next five years and pay the requisite taxes, I’ll be eligible to apply for French citizenship”
I’m in my 5th year in France – my first three visa’s were visiteur and then I transitioned to profession libérale for my 4th and 5th visa’s, both for 1 year validity. (I had hoped to get the multi-year visa at my last renewal and almost did… but apparently I never got invited to some civics course so have to get that sorted.)
For moving to either a 10 year visa or even potentially citizenship, they all talk about 5 years of continuous time in France – which I had always been including those first three years in France in my total. But your comment above makes it seem like maybe I’m actually only at 2 years now? Could you help clarify which way that falls for me please? Thanks!
The “five year” reference is never clear when you’re newer in the process, but I’ve come to understand it as “five years of paying taxes” which is not possible with the 3/2 split that you are currently at.
A key part of the nationality dossier is “attachment to France” and you would be hard pressed to show such attachment after only two years of paying taxes. A visitor visa is just that: a visitor, not anyone on a citizenship path.
Thanks for the reply. I did pay taxes for those first three years – granted it wasn’t very much as my taxes were offset from back home with the tax treaty – but I do still at least have completed returns for every year that I’ve been in France, paying at least some amount.
I might have to see if I can get an official answer and I’ll update here if I get one.
Thank you so much for such a complete blog. It is so well written and clear to understand.
I am currently considering to apply for a Visiteur visa so I can live with my french boyfriend and “taste” Paris before I move long term. I have concerns around taxes though. I’m an independent contractor working for a US company. I pay taxes in my home country (Peru) as freelancer. I understand I would “file” taxes in France, and not necessarily “pay” for them. So here are my 2 concerns:
– 1. If I keep paying taxes in Peru, is there a risk that France “chases me down” for taxes due to me being a tax resident? (there is no double taxation agreement between Peru and France)
Additionally, my income is above the threshold of micro-entrepreneur level, which means that , if /when I change my visa status, I would have to set up a company and pay corporate tax and way more that (according to calculators) would ear up to 70% of my total earnings.
This was a huge question, I am mainly interested in getting an answer for the first question and not the last one above and I guess I will take it from there 🙂
It’s not so much that they will “chase you down” it’s that when you file your taxes in France there’s a line item for worldwide income and taxation in France depends on whether there’s a tax treaty. I would refer you to an accountant for these questions, as that’s their specialty. Check with Hadtax here: https://theamericaninparis.com/our-accountant-recommendations/
Hello,
I’m very interested in working remotely in France on a long term visitor visa. However, as you mentioned, the FB groups and immigration lawyers highly advise against this. I want to eventually acquire French residency and maybe even French citizenship one day. From my research online, it seems we can get away with working remotely on a long term visitor visa but once it comes time to apply for residency or citizenship, the French government starts asking a lot more questions about the income sources while living in France. Basically, I heard you can get away with it for a couple of years but not longer because you’re still working on French soil, even if for a U.S. subsidiary/company. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. I don’t want to spoil my chances of French residency!
If you’re interested in French residency you can easily obtain it by holding a visitor visa with a remote job.
If you want French citizenship you’ll never get it by holding a visitor visa working a remote job.
To get citizenship, you need to show attachment to France and the most frequent ways you can do so are through getting married, working a job, or starting a business.
Feel free to schedule a consultation with us on the third option. Alas, we are not matchmakers or headhunters, so we can’t help with the first two 🙂
Hi Stephen, I’m not sure if you’d know the answer, but would individuals moving from the UK who work remotely be able to continue working remotely while living in France?
Thanks.
Hi everyone! Hopefully someone can answer my question. I’m about to submit all my paperwork for a French driver’s license (I’m in France on a VLS-TS visa, applying for a carte de sejour, about 4 months away from being in France for one year). I truly didn’t realize I had to exchange my American driver’s license for the French one. I assumed I got to keep it. When my French husband lived with me in Colorado he was able to keep his French driver’s license AND receive an American one. So much for reciprocity.
Anyway, I was going to just report my American license lost and receive a new one so when I have to send my other older American license to the French, I’ll still have the new one. My question is, will the French know I still have a newer American license? Will they check with my home state (Texas)? Should I wait until after I receive my French license to report my American license lost? The whole situation makes me nervous and I honestly can’t believe the French are going to take away my literal main form of identification in the United States.
Vent over! I’d love if anyone could answer my question in terms of timing to report my American license lost and receive a second one. THANK YOU!!!!
The main check the French are performing is to make sure you have a valid license. Where the location is, whether you’ve been issued another one, whether it was reported lost, is all out of their control (and frankly, beyond their caring). They don’t have the legal or moral right to stop you from getting a license anywhere else in the world just because you have a French one.
Hi there Stephen,
Am I glad to find your website!
I arrived here by chance, while I was looking up info online for my citizenship application – a long overdue process much like yours, from what I have read ! : )
(I began looking it up in 2009!!)
My situation is a different one to yours (I’m Australian, applying for citizenship via marriage etc), but already, in a very short amount of time, I have had many of my questions answered, thanks to you – and your exchanges with others here in comments. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your site! It’s now saved in my browser and I think I will be refering to it again and again! It will be great to discover the rest of your articles too : )
With thanks and appreciation, Kat
ps good luck with the rest of your application process!
I am only speaking for myself as a single man without children. I suspect that married people may need their certificate of marriage apostilled at least, if not perhaps also documents relating to the children.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks a lot for all the helpful details. Regarding birth certificates (myself + parents), do original copies need to be submitted or can scans suffice?
If parents are divorced is the marriage certificate still needed?
You cannot submit original copies digitally. If you hop ahead to my interview article you can see that I was asked to present them (in my case, they only asked for my certificate, not my parents’ though I had both of those with me) in person for verification but they then handed the birth certificate back to me.
As far as the divorce goes, in the French mind (and in the law and reality) that doesn’t mean the marriage never happened. Indeed, I think you will need both certificates of marriage and whatever the equivalent of divorce is.
General rule of thumb is that you should never think, ever, that “the French probably won’t need/won’t ask for that.” 🙂
Thank you so much for this extremely helpful explanation. I have 2 questions.
1) I guess I am a little ahead of myself — I filled out the entire form on Feb 15 and put August 15 as my entry date (we intend to go for the school year). I got to the end and it said I can’t apply more than 3 months out. So, do I — a) wait 3 months (seems a little nervous making — and also might an eventual landlord want to see my visa, creating a Catch-22) or b) put May 15 and then just wait until August 15 to enter France, the question being does the 1 year clock begin from the would-be/stated date of entry or from when I actually enter (and if so how long is the visa valid)? Part of the reason I am applying this early is that I will likely go for a reconnaissance trip in May and I want to make sure I’ve gotten my passport back. Mind you, it could be problematic if I get a long-stay visa starting May 15 and show up for 1-week reconnaissance trip in late May.
2) I will be going with my wife and 2 kids. Am I correct that the expected cost / funds I need to show are 120 euros per day per person? That would be 120 times 4 people times 365 days?
Listen we have all been there. I knew a year in advance I would be moving to France and had to do everything during that nine months prior to my application as if I would get the visa. I only learned later that as far as a visitor visa, it’s almost impossible to get rejected as long as all your paperwork is in order. Words like “interview” made me think it was a competitive process rather than what it actually is, paper pushing. So, firstly, don’t worry about whether it will be approved. Focus on getting your paperwork right.
Secondly, you are making this really complicated. If you’re only intending to go for the school year, why would you need a one-year visa? Just get a nine-month one that covers the school year and avoids an OFII visit.
Finally, the visa begins from the date on the sticker in your passport, not from when you actually arrive. The French don’t really care when or whether you arrive. They got their money from you already.
PS Who told you this crazy 120€/day/person number? There are plenty of people in France who dream of that number. No, the SMIC per person is the correct answer: 17115,60€/year or 46,89€/day.
Thank you for this blog post. It answered some questions but raised others.
I’m a US citizen intending to move to France by the end of this year, with the goal of applying for French citizenship after 5 years. I’ve run my own consulting company for over 20 years (S-corp, sole owner, sole employee). My income is done as a W-2 employee through my S corp. I only have a couple of long-term clients based in the US and UK. I do not want to change anything from my client’s perspective.
Can I use a PL visa to establish a french company that has my US company as the sole client? Or perhaps create a french branch of my US company?
Your proposed use of the visa will not pass muster with the French.
The PL visa is a freelancer visa (equivalent to a US sole proprietorship, not a US S-corp) with an income cap (no income cap in the US) in which you make the case that you will create a French business with at least some French clients (no such requirements for a US company). What you articulated does not currently exist in the French visa regime.
If you want to pursue this path you need to create a slightly different business idea which can attract French clients, which you will need to provide the possibility of obtaining at your first visa proposal and fiscal evidence of at your first renewal.
We offer consultations on this and I took an analogous path when I obtained and retained my visa, starting a French practice similar to what I had and maintained in the US contemporaneously. Feel free to reach out using the contact us form.
I am having CSS , for my medical needs . Recently when I went to doctor he aasked for a card for CSS but I have a ppiece of paper. How can i get a card instead of this paper. Thank you.
Thanks so much for this, Stephen! This post solidified that I will apply for Long-Term-Visitor visas for myself and my family.
My concern now is this: We plan to leave around the last week of July, 2025. My minor son’s visa expires in April of 2026, and mine in September of 2026. I was told directly by an “expert” (whose credibility has now come into question) that I shouldn’t worry about our visas expiring during and close to the end of the year we’re requesting to use them; that we can “just” renew them at the embassy while in France. I’ve expedited my passports in the past, but I’m a little wary these days about sending in our passports with the expectation of receiving them back any time soon.
What’s your experience with this? Do passport expiration dates of less than/close to one year impact whether or not one is approved for LSVVs?
It’s the six-month rule that most countries observe with regards to granting visas. Some countries even have a three-month rule. Given that your visa is literally a sticker inside your passport for your first year, and then you’ll have to give away that passport (and it will lose its validity) to renew, I advise you to just renew your passports early and obviate this concern. You’re going to have to renew at some point. Better not to do it with a sticker inside that you (technically) need for life in France.
Hi Stephen, how funny. I just attended one of Allison Lounes’s Q&As today and was very confused as I know many remote workers on the long stay visitor visa.
If, like Luke says in his post, the visa application includes a section for a letter from your remote, non-French employer, why would Allison say this isn’t allowed? Is there any truth to her claims?
I’ve also been told that you cannot use French public healthcare on this visa but your response to one of the comments here suggests otherwise.
Allison, in numerous contexts has shown herself to be self-interested, so the reason she tells you it’s not allowed is so that you can spend 4-8k with her. 🙂
Years ago I used to think that about the public health care system as well, because I wondered “how are you paying into the system as a visitor” but this fiscal black hole seems to be ignored as we know of and have helped people with an article on the website gain access to that system.
This blog and this post was exactly fitting to my situation. I have talked to a lot of people about advice and none I really found quite resonated with me until I read this. In your other post in “How to Get a Long-Stay Visa” you had mentioned a FLE accredited school. I have also heard of La Sorbonne from another connection I had. I was thinking of enrolling in that but its only 12 weeks when you had said that to be able to get a long stay visa it has to be min. a year. What language programs would be the cheapest amount and for a year that would grant me this visa. Ideally I want to get a student visa, then find a job that would transfer to a work visa.
Hi Lily! Thanks for reading 🙂 I did the FETE program at Nanterre in the Paris region and loved it, though I’m not sure of the current price. I encourage you to check out this website — it has a list of FLE-accredited schools.
Thanks for this little write-up 🙂 A few years ago, I did a little investigation via a series of street interviews in Paris about this same topic. No one went into the etymology like you did here, but there responses on interesting nonetheless
Thanks so much for all the advice you’ve posted, it is really really useful.
My question is that my current employer in the UK is confused about what would be required of them if I was to work remotely in France for them. In order to apply for my visitor visa, would I only require my proof of income + a letter of authorisation for me to work from abroad from them? Is there something else that I would need from them? No fees need to be paid on their end right?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide!
It all comes down to HR departments being scared. It’s not even a “letter of authorization.” It’s just a statement of facts. “Kaya will be working remotely at this rate of pay.” Don’t make it complicated for them and once they see that’s all they are doing they will realize the question of their paying fees is moot.
Thanks for your excellent articles. My family is hoping to move to France, and the most likely option in terms of employment would appear to be continuing our US based jobs remotely. Is it possible to have our children attend a local école if we are on the long term visitor visa?
Holy. Crap. What a large closet you live in!!! Great article. Can’t wait to read part II.
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Thanks for sharing Stephen. It is well composed and really hits home. I am very familiar with Tim’s book and his approach to “lifestyle design.” Looks like you have adapted well to the “Nuevo Rich” culture he speaks of.
I commend you on following your passions, and I as well am pushing for the wonderful lifestyle design myself. Yet, I have to remind myself that designs can take a lot of building time to make into a reality. You have to stick to the dream, heck sometimes I feel like I am still finding the dream for my life. It is a journey that we battle each day and can also enjoy in the moments along the way! Tim didn’t get there by 4 hour weeks, psshhh, he likely put in more like 80. I think there is a unique balance to both contributing toward a healthy lifestyle for you and yours, and freeing yourself to chase after “less stable” passions.
Overall, I know I have passions, goals, and hope to be uber passionate about something that also generates an income that I can be saving off of / sell for lots of money! Thanks again for sharing!
May our soccer talks always be blessed with joy and interesting conversations!!!
Smile,
Ryan
Thanks man!
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very interesting post – and that is a pretty big claim to back up – to be the best city! and you do a great job supporting your claim…
and love this “Beauty isn’t uniformity or conformity…”
and also the old and the new – parks, etc.
whew – and it sure does have an identity – fo sho.
and your love for Paris is inspiring.
Thanks Prior!
Absolutely love this. My husband and I are trying to move there next year after we finish our year in Thailand. Any tips or suggestions on how to move? What do you do for work? If you have any connections or suggestions I would love to hear them 🙂 Love your site!
Chloe
Start by reading my two posts about getting a visa here. It’s not easy.
https://theamericaninparis.com/tag/visa/
Thank you for this! I have an appointment on Tuesday for an au pair visa and I was so paranoid that I would get denied (actually, I’m sure of it since I don’t think my French family got my contract approved and I don’t think my French class correspondence will qualify, etc). It’s such a relief that they let you send your missing documents! Did you only have to pay the application fee once? That was another concern of mine. I don’t want to take multiple trips to Chicago or pay hundreds of dollars because THEIR website isn’t clear and I can’t get a response via email OR phone for WEEKS (I know, I shouldn’t blame them when I’m applying!).
Rachel
Make sure you have all your money with you.
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In fact social networks have revolutionized our lives by incorporating
all the basic elements of a person’s social life in one place.
If you like something from other people’s board you
can “re-pin” it to your own. It’s not always easy, but if the material is for something truly important, it’s the wisest step
to take.
Hey Stephen! I love your blog! It’s super helpful for someone going through the same process. 🙂 One question: how long did it take to get your passport back after your appointment at the Consulate?
Lucy – about 3 weeks once they had all the paperwork they wanted from me.
Awesome! Thanks!! Keep up the blogging 🙂
Hi Stephen! Thanks for your awesome site! Did it take 3 weeks to get the Visa? Or how long?
Sara I had a couple missing components but once they had everything it was 7 business days.
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What? You’re from Kansas City?! Moi aussi. So glad everything went well. The two times I’ve had to deal with the Chicago Consulate have been interesting, but in the end just fine.
Julia
Not “from,” but I did spend 7 years of my life there. All good memories 🙂
Such an inspirational post for me personally . . .I also pray for the “window” to open. I am at a crossroad in life and am considering pursuing my dream of teaching overseas. Best wishes, and please post more if you get a chance!
Rose – more soon! Just had a lot going on.
Bravo!
I’ll second Felix
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Awesome! Congratulations on another year en France!
Thanks Lucy!
Sir, I know we can’t work but can we get job? If yes then we convert into work permit?
Regards
Hadi
Dubai
Hadi it’s not that simple. You need to get a work permit/entrepreneur visa BEFORE you can work legally.
You must have work permit for internships, for CDIs it is not mandatory to have it before applying
Could I have the contact information for your renter’s insurance guy?
Jodie – sure just email me and I’ll send it to you.
Thanks so much for this! Your experience really helped me. I would not have known to bring a copy of renters insurance to the meeting. You taking the time to reply to my questions in email was sincerely appreciated. Two issues I had were not bringing copies of my French bank account statements but had my bank email them directly. And my teeth were showing slightly in my photos so had to retake them. But I just left with my Visa extension and so relieved. Thank you again!
Someone commenting at The Thinking Housewife on the Charlie Hebdo murders commented:
I thought you might appreciate the sentiment
There is a certain sense, I understand, in “newsjacking” something trendy and Christianizing it. Some time ago a number of people put the “equal” sign as their avatars for some days in response to an American court decision on so-called homosexual marriage. A number of people then put up the mathematically “unequal” sign in “protest.” This turns the conversation, dramatically, but I think it’s a distraction. People aren’t ready for the sort of 90, or 180 degree turn that “Je suis Charlie Martel” is. I daresay a lot of people, not just the French, have no idea who he is, and now you’ve turned the discussion from dealing with “free speech” and Islam in Europe to a military discussion about the Muslim invasions. I don’t quite think it works, and I’m worried that Christians, eager to show their bona fides in a cultural dispute about things that matter, try to strike their own trends, but rather than be original they are simply a poor knock-off of what swirls in the zeitgeist. They can, and should, do better.
Cogent Catholic writing.
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Crazy! I’m glad it worked for you!!
It happens to the best of us travelers! Ya Live, travel, and learn…(and forget somewhere in the mix). Now you’ve got it over with for the rest of trip 😉
Enjoy your time here!! And check out my Food Guides/ other wild travel stories from all over Europe 😉
Haha this sounds like something that I would do. I’m glad it worked out for you though!
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That wouldn’t fly (pun intended) here in NY. We citizens are treated like criminals; the illegals are treated with open arms and gov’t assistance.
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I agree that the french spoken in France is not easy. I Watch one French TV series from France (Plus Belle la Vie) and it amazes me by its difference with French Canadian, as I am from Montreal. I learned English by reading English books with a dictionary, and by watching English TV (I would not recommend watching too much TV anymore). I did the same with Spanish when I visited Spain and it worked. I learned also my prayers in Latin and it was easy. I know some words of other languages. Of course, Jesus must have known and could have spoken all the languages on earth.
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You are a great man, but that does not change the fact that he is a poor little man.
You stole to you something you could afford to lose, but this is not always the case. I feel at the same time sad, because there are people like him, and happy because, after all, we can limit the impact they have on the lifes of the honest people.
Funny to read an article about my native language. I did not perceive the fact that we are speaking “bad french” every day – disappearance of “ne” for example. I will speak better now 😉
I ll do my best in the future
What makes the study of the language even more interesting are the different definitions for a work, based on dialects…Ex. la tourtière…(meat pie) In Ontario but in Québec it’s pâté à la viande…and tourtière is a different platter…! regional expressions…that even among French speaking people are misunderstood!
oops…I ment to say “Word“ and not “work“…!
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Stephen,
that’s really cool blog. i am trying to do the same, only we are a little different.
i will be applying from Chinese office for long stay visitor visa of France. the office in China is very very very strict, i tried to research any chinese has done it,but no luck.
the reason i am going to france is to learn French, since France would not issue student visa for Language only, then i have to look for alternative way which is long stay visitor visa. and my school doesn’t care if i dont have a student visa.
i really wish my application can go through. and i only have less than a month to apply for it. school test is waiting for me in Paris on the 7th September…
ps, i want to ask if you know anyone has similar case like me? or do you think i can apply for that visa with my reason?!
merci!
Stephan,
Great information. Thank you so much.
I have one question regarding the medical insurance. Are there any specific requirements as for deductible, co-pay, and annual limits?
Thanks,
Coleman
No they don’t really care – that’s on you – they just want proof that you have *something.*
Thank you for the info and prompt reply.
FYI, I was told by the Consulate in Chicago (when I was there submitting my visa application and documentation) that my policy needed to include medical evacuation coverage, with no deductible. This was in December 2014. Hope that helps!
Thank you for the recent update, Lucy. $0 deductible and include medical evacuation coverage. Anything said about any co-pay?
Nothing about co-pays. I also looked at my records and the minimum coverage needs to be $50,000 – I doubt there are any policies that small, but the gentleman at the Consulate wrote it down so I thought I would mention it. 🙂
It’s not a non-issue for them based on my experience.
My policy has a small yearly deductible, $750, and when I went to the consulate in Houston they noticed that, mentioned it, then went back over my bank statements to make sure I had the money to cover it in addition to what they’d be expecting for living expenses.
Not saying a $0 deductible policy is a better decision overall, since you need to weight that vs premium payments, but just be prepared to show you have enough money to cover the deductible as well as living expenses.
Thanks for your feedback – that’s helpful for anyone who goes to Houston for approval, for sure.
In my Chicago and Paris experience, they really didn’t look that closely at the policy.
Thanks for your thoughts, Stephen. Great blog, BTW. Maybe see you around in Paris sometime. Just moved to the 10th and should be here for at least a year.
Would love to grab coffee – shoot me an email and let’s get together.
Thanks, Lucy.
hi! I found this in my feverous search regarding French Visas. The French consulate says you can’t renew the long term visa in france…. I am assuming by your blog this is not truly the case. So two questions:
If I get the long term visitor visa in the states, can I renew it for another year in france?
If I get the long term visitor visa, can I switch to a type of self-employed/artist (i make films) visa once I am there? Or do I have to return for that?
I want to apply for the Carte Competences et Talents – Artist’s Visa, the issue is I don’t think I know enough about france to get it yet. I think after a year I can. I would like to know if I can come on a long stay visitor visa and apply for this card. I have seen vague evidence on the internet that this is possible, but nothing solid yet…
Given that I renewed my long-term stay visa in France last year, yes, it’s possible. Not sure what specific case/length the French Consulate was referring to. So, to answer your first question: “Yes, unless I’m somehow special.” As far as “switching” to the “auto entrepreneur” visa once you get here…not so fast. This isn’t college and changing your major, and France is a couple thousand years old so a basic immigration trick like that isn’t going to work. I’m changing my status to a working one later this year, but that took a lot of planning and tactics. Short answer: “No, you can’t.”
The artist visa is an interesting one – I can connect you with a friend who might be able to help. Email me at stephen AT aroadtaken.com and I’ll connect you guys.
Stephan,
I have been reading more and more of your articles. Great stuff. Thank you for sharing. And I apologize in advance if my next question is answered somewhere on your website. But when applying for a long term visitor visa, for the purposes of the visa application, do you not need to sign a one-year lease contract?
From another one of your articles (I think that you discussed Airbnb), it appears that one does not. (I would also like to have the flexibility of moving within the year.)
But, is a 6-month contract acceptable to the French authorities even though it is a one-year visa?
Thanks,
Coleman
P.S. Can you recommend the cheapest medical insurance carrier/policy, that you are aware of, that is acceptable to the French authorities. You mentioned in another article that you switched from Cigna to a local French provider in your second year.
Thanks again for your advice.
Coleman – it’s a flat market and Cigna costs the same as my provider, except that my provider requires the entire premium in advance, so I think Cigna is a better option for you – especially if your French is not good enough to simply call up my provider (who doesn’t speak English :-).
As for the original application – I don’t remember having to present a one year lease – I certainly didn’t have one at the time of the application. The French aren’t interested in the details of where – they are more interested in the fact that you have a place – so a QDL or an attestation de hebergement is going to be fine. When I renewed I don’t think I showed them a lease either. That being said, I would encourage you not to move around too much – I’ve maintained the same permanent address in Paris from when I came here through an arrangement with the gardienne of the building. Moving just presents hiccups in paperwork you don’t want.
Good advice. Thanks.
Thanks for the article. Very helpful. Regarding the questionnaire (filled out in french), do you have to have the document notarized by a french “notaire” or a US one? If US, do you have some contact details in Chicago area? Thanks so much.
Sandrine – basic rule – if you are doing something for the US side, English is fine – for example, an American notary and your health insurance policy in English. If you are applying on the French side, they want French-translated health insurance and a French notaire. Your friendly neighborhood Chicago notary should be fine. 🙂
Hi Stephen,
I am currently in my search for apartments in Paris and have one question with regard to the apartment that I find and renewing the visa one year later.
My preference would be to get an apartment for a shorter term (say three or six months) and then get a one year lease perhaps in another location, once I am more familiar with the neighborhoods.
My question: When I go to renew the long stay visa, will I need proof of where I lived during the previous 12 months, similar to having to show 12 months worth of banking statements? Or will I just show my current lease?
Thanks,
Coleman
Coleman
Firstly I would recommend using ParisExpat.com to help you find an apartment.
Secondly, the renewal is about the future, so a current lease is fine. They don’t assume life works neatly and that you necessarily decided to stay in the same place all 12 months and hence need to show proof of all the places you lived. Furthermore, they don’t require proof that you have signed another 12 month lease. A simple QDL will do. And proof of insurance on that property.
s.
Thanks, Stephan. I just found a perfect place for the location that I need on ParisExpat.com. Hopefully I will get a response to my inquiry tomorrow.
Hello! I’m so glad I found your blog post, I am trying to renew my long stay visitor visa in a few weeks and wanted to know,
1) Where did you get your birth certificate translated
2) Do I really need renters insurance?
I live with my boyfriend (french) in his house, so I have all the proof that he owns the place and that I’m allowed to live there, (worked to get the visa coming here), so just wondering if I’ll still need this, seeing as it’s what held up your process.
3) Do they process the passport/visa right away? Or will I have to come back? Because poor planning I’m flying out to the UK 2 days after my appointment, and will need my passport back.
Thank you for your help!!
Monica – I’m sorry I didn’t see this comment until recently – I’m hoping you got these issues sorted?
Thanks Stephen!
Hi Stephen,
Your article was enjoyable to read, and once again, informative. I am now in Paris with my long stay visitor visa, and waiting for the medical exam with OFII. I was not aware that I needed to stay 270 days a year in France. Not a problem. Good to know. Thanks for mentioning it in your article.
You also mentioned that next year you will be transitioning your visitor visa to one that leads to citizenship. Great job. Congratulations and good luck.
Can you please share what types of visas can lead to citizenship, or permanent residence? Or lead me towards the best website(s) for the info.
It is my understanding that after having a visitor visa for 5 years, (renewed each year), one can apply for a 10-year resident visa. Is this accurate? Also, at that point, can a person work on a “10-year resident visa”? I enjoy Paris and don’t have a problem with not working for 5 years, but I’m not sure that I want to be permanently retired either.
Thanks for any insight,
Coleman
Coleman – I’m going to be sharing some of those details in a future post. If someone wants a clear path on “how-to” you should contact me privately and I can discuss more with you that way.
Stephen – great. What is the best way to contact you? Or would you like to meet one day for lunch?
I’ll reach out by email!
Hello Stephen please I’m in a fix, My friend invite me to Paris for a visit, the problem now is, I’m unemployed and don’t have a business here in Nigeria, He will support my stay in Paris but the Visa requirements says otherwise.
(meaning i will have a job before travelling)
How can i apply for Visa and won’t be denied?
Thanks look forward to hearing from you..
Cynthia
Can you please try, slowly and carefully, to explain your situation again? I don’t understand what you mean.
My story goes this way..
A friend of mine invites me to Paris for a visit, he is an American citizen.
He will sponsor my staying in Paris.
I’m not financial ready..
Can he send his documentaries to me.
C i apply for Visa and won’t be denied??
Cynthia – when you say he will “sponsor your visit in Paris” I hope you mean he is going to give you a large amount of cash to put in a bank account under your name, as that is the only way that you are going to get a visitor visa. You have to prove that YOU have the money – not that someone else – who is not related to you or married to you – has it. So – short answer – no. You can certainly come on a tourist visa and see how it goes from there. That should cost you close to nothing, depending on what the policy is in Nigeria.
Interesting post. So good to read how happy u r in Paris, that beautiful, inspiring city. I have lived abroad a lot longer, but some things stay the same. And there is so much to be gained from such an experience! Stay safe these difficult days.
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I’ve also had a good experience using xoom.com. It was recently purchased by PayPal, so I don’t know if the fees will go up (currently $4.99/transfer) or if anything will change, but for now I’m a fan.
Thanks Lucy! 🙂
Hello thanks so much for the info.
Do we really have to have our birth certificate??
my appointment is in a few days and i thought i just needed to reshow the documents shown when i got my initial long term visa which did not include a birth certificate…. i am so screwed if that is… since it is deep within a box in a storage unit back in the states..
I’m thinking to go in without the document even if i have to go back instead of canceling/ losing my appointment.
Can’t believe this birth certificate thing!
Heather – you have a 1/100 chance of getting away with this. Worst case, you have everything else in order and when you come back that’s the only document you need to show. There’s always a chance you might not need it. But it’s very, very slim. I would encourage you to get someone to go in there, get it, and overnight it to you. It’s worth the hassle to avoid the hassle.
PS As a general rule and as the blog demonstrates, don’t EVER make assumptions of the French. Really bad idea 🙁
yes, the french are a scary lot indeed.
hello, sorry to keep asking, and i’m kicking myself constantly as i write this…
I know i will not be able to get my birth certificate into my submission files. So in this case would you recommend that i still go to the prefecture knowing that they will ask me to come back with the document?
Or should i cancel and try to book another appointment instead. I fear i may not get an appointment in time though because my visa expires at the end of january 2016…
When they asked you to come back, did you have to get another appointment?
thank you so much for your time…
Let me rephrase the above crazy posting.
I am going to the embassy tomorrow to get my certificate going as you mentioned. My question is more about: Do you need to make another appointment if you had a missing document the first time? How long did that take for you?
Sorry for the messy communication, it is indication of my frazzled condition….
many many, thank yous
ps. can you please let me know the translators you used for this process?
Heather if you send me an email I can connect you with the translator directly.
hello Stephen, i tried clicking on your name link but it takes me to a hosting service. I also looked around but could not find your email address or link anywhere?
can you see my email address? i was required to put it in to post to this thread.
A quick question. You had to produce all these documents to extend your visa for one year. What if I only want to extend mine for 3 months? Will I still need to produce all the documentation you list?
Rob – you need to provide documentation to extend. So, I suppose instead of showing a one year lease, you can show them a 3-month. But there’s no “shorter list” for shorter stays. That’s not how the French work, as I try to indicate on this blog 🙂
Hello Stephen,
First of all thank you for your blog, it is a pleasure to read.
I am also on a long term visitor visa. Actually I have just received my visa so I am not in France yet. There are a few questions I would like to ask, some of them are quite similar to Coleman’s:
– The 270 day minimum stay in France limit. I have just been googling for the last 30 mins and have not found any information. Please share any links maybe? This would really affect my decision of whether or not I should renew my titre when my visa runs out.
– The financial requirement to renew the titre. I read in another post of yours that 1.5 – 2k is sufficient. However, I will be staying with family so rent is free. Does that reduce the amount I need? Please share some experience.
Also I am looking forward to your post on how to change from visitor visa to the path to obtain citizenship.
Thanks again.
The 270 day limit was mentioned to me at the prefecture. It’s not really something enforced (because how would they enforce it in a borderless Europe?) – but keep in mind that since I write a public blog I have to share information I’m given. So I only know from the prefecture, so I have no links to share with you.
Yes, I think if you have an attestation that you will not be paying any rent at all that your money requirement will be reduced, but not eliminated.
Finally, I won’t be writing a public blog on how to make the change from visitor to citizen path – the work I did in order to learn how to do it was some of the hardest (and most expensive, in both time and money) work I’ve done so far. For people who are seriously interested I offer some consulting time in blocks of 90 minutes. Some have already met with me for such consulting and it’s been a good experience for both parties.
Thank you for your information, they are very helpful.
Stephen this is such great info- you write clearly, thank you for writing this. 2 questions for you-
I’m considering applying for a 6 month long stay, I’m a US citizen.
1 Do you have to enter France from the country you apply for the visa from? (for example fly to France from US vs entering from another European country) Do you have to exit the Schengen zone from France?
2 Can you leave France and travel to other Schengen countries freely during the Visa? (I can’t see why not as there are not border checks in Schengen)
Hope this finds you well
thanks Stephen
Mark – to your first question – no – they don’t care how you get there, just that you get there on or after the date of your visa. Ideally on. I actually had to get my customs guy to stamp on the sheet instructed by OFII, as the French border control agents are so sloppy and rushed. His sloppiness would have caused more trouble for me so I had to watch him carefully before he put a stamp on the wrong place.
As to the second, you’ve answered your own question. They have no idea where you are at any given time, and it’s borderless travel pretty much anywhere in the EU – you are definitely going to be passport-checked in Romania, Hungary, Croatia, and Poland, in my personal experience, especially with a US passport, but that doesn’t have any bearing on your visa.
One more for you Stephen (and thank you again for sharing this knowledge)
some context-
Arriving in Lisbon May 3rd and will make our way to France mid June. Truthfully I want to use the 6 month french long stay to wonder around the schengen including France. My understanding is that the french visa kicks off when I enter France say June 15th, then I can theoretically wander around the Schengen for 6 months after that. (Unless it starts when I land in Portugal?)
Do I have to then exit the Schengen from France to comply with the visa?
I’m still working out how I’m going to prove accommodation, I’ll let you and your readers know when I figure that one out.
Gosh I would love to hear the answer for Mark’s next question of Dec 29th. Can you use the “normal” 3 month visa to tour Spain or Italy beforehand, and then start the 6 month Visa by entering France? And after that “6 month visitor visa D” is used up, can you leave the Schengen Zone for a few days, then reenter and start a fresh new 3 month Visa? Normally, you have to leave Schengen for 3 months, but can you hop into a 3 month visa after only a few days at the end of a “6 month Visitor Visa D”?
Bitsy
I hear differing things regarding this “leave Schengen for one day” business – I’ve been told of a friend of a friend who does it, and I was also told of two friends of readers of this blogged who received massive fines for doing so.
Here’s the tip: if you want to be here in France for more than 3 months, get a visitor visa! I have laid out the steps here and it’s neither expensive nor difficult! Then you don’t have to worry about all this (absurd) Jason Bourne stuff.
Hello, I had a question that I asked on this site and also asked the french Consulate in Los Angeles. Below, is the question and also the answers I got from the french Consulate:
—————————————————
I have a question that I hope you can answer. My husband and I are planning to travel to France this Fall, and we are nearing retirement age and want to travel in France for a longer time period than previous trips.
We will be applying for a “6 month longstay visa” in Los Angeles at the consulate. We plan to travel to France Sept. 1st. Assuming that we will get the “6 month longstay visitor visa D” that starts on Sept. 1st, we are wondering, if we end up being able to, could we leave the USA sooner and enter Italy for a few weeks ahead of the “6 month longstay visitor visa D”? In other words, could we tour Italy on a “regular 3 month Schengen visa”, then leave the Schengen Zone for a week or so (go to Croatia, or UK) and then enter France and start the “6 month longstay visitor visa D”?
Also: When the “6 month longstay visitor visa D” is over, can we document leaving the Schengen Zone, go to Ireland, and then reenter the Schengen zone again a week later as the beginning of another “regular 3 month Schengen visa”?
I do know that a regular visa allows us to be in the Schengen Zone for 90 days out of 180 days. However, with the “6 month longstay visitor visa D”, as it ends, can we start into the regular visa without waiting, and having to leave the Schengen Zone for a full 3 months?
Thank you in advance for your answer.
———————————————-
The day your long stay visa for France expires you have to leave the Schengen area.
Sincerely,
Visa section
Consulate General of France in Los Angeles
———————————————–
Thank you for your reply. When the 6 months are finished, we have to leave the Schengen Zone. Understood. But then in a few days, can we reenter Schengen Zone on a 90 day visa?
———————————————-
Yes, you can enter the Schengen area again (after a few days) without a visa for maximum 90 days every 6 months.
Sincerely,
Visa section
Consulate General of France in Los Angeles
10390 Santa Monica Boulevard, Suite 115
Los Angeles, CA 90025
http://www.consulfrance-losangeles.org
———————————————————
And can we visit Schengen zone on a 90 day visa beforehand, leave, and then come back in to start the “6 months longstay Visa D”?
———————————————————–
No, not prior to your long stay in France. After your long stay in France you can go back to the Schengen area as described.
Sincerely,
Visa section
Consulate General of France in Los Angeles
Stephen, thanks for your answer. Do you think that I will need to have my bank statements translated into French? That would be very expensive, since each one is many pages long. Also, you mention that there’s no shorter list for shorter stays, but when I present myself to the office is there an occasion for me to indicate that I am only wanting to extend for 3 months, not 1 year? I ask this because I am not able to make the case for 1 year, since I absolutely must return to my home country after those 3 additional months? Thanks so much for your help.
Rob – you simply tell them how long you want to renew for. There is a place for that on the form. Just because you were there for a year doesn’t mean you want to renew for a year. Also – where do you bank? Do you not bank with a French bank? If you’ve been here for a year I suspect that they will want to see your French bank account, but if you’ve been living out of your American bank account, you should be able to show them your American bank account statements, untranslated. But you’re asking me about a scenario I’ve never pondered, as I don’t know how someone would live here for a year as a regular part of society without a French bank account, but I feel they are just as likely to ask you for a French translation as they are not. More likely not because you’re asking for so short – and my follow-up is, why don’t you just leave the country (go to London, so you’re out of Schengen, so you get stamped on the way back in) at the end of your visa and come back the next day on a 90-day tourist visa? Free. No hassle. No nonsense. I would never go through this drama for just 3 months. But that’s just me.
Dear Stephen, I promise I will only badger you with this one additional question. I thought about leaving and coming back, as you recommend, but I was under the impression that if I leave and the end of my long stay visa I would need to stay gone for a period of time before returning under a tourist visa. Am I incorrect? I hope I am, because it would save a major hassle.
you are actually in major luck, IF you have a 1-year long stay visa (such as the initial France visitor’s visa), are from 1 of the visa-free countries that normally allows 90 days upon entry, and if all you want is another 90 days.
Save this link, be prepared to show it at airport immigration* if you need to make a case:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32013R0610
See Article 5b, where it says: “Periods of stay authorised under a residence permit or a long-stay visa shall not be taken into account in the calculation of the duration of stay on the territory of the Member States.”
I’m no lawyer either, but there’s plenty of discussion out there that says you could still take advantage of the normal 90 days visa-free allowance starting the day after your long-term stay expired– you don’t even need to do the proposed “visa run” to London.
*By the way, re showing that link and making a case: the risk is far greater when you are *leaving* Schengen then when arriving. This used to be counter-intuitive to me but is very true. Immigration is very strict all over Schengen these days re over-staying, so don’t mess with the rules.
Just to follow up, given Ken’s helpful remarks and link below, I received confirmation from the French Consulate in San Francisco that I am indeed able to leave France on the date of the expiration of my long-stay visa, travel to a non-Schengen country, and then return to France under a normal 90-day tourist visa. But they did say that I must make certain that I get a stamp on the way out and on the way in. So Ken, while your interpretation of the law is compelling, it’s probably not a risk I would want to take.
Rob – agree with your assessment.
Well – as I said – who is going to be checking that? Do you think they are going to flip through your passport, find your OFII stamp, then do the math and realize your visa just ended and ask why the hell you are in France? Or are they going to see you as a tourist, and flip to the closest page available and stamp and wave you through? My bets are on door #2. This is also where I remind you that I offer advice, but I’m no lawyer or immigration expert. Just someone who’s been through the paces with these people.
I was reading through this thinking, “This guy totally should hear about the Story of Stuff.” Then I got to the end of your post, and there it is!
I just moved from Missouri to Germany at the end of September. I packed my few boxes in my aunt’s basement and left my books for her and my sisters. I checked two suitcases and had one carry-on. When I got here I was able to get used cookware and what not for free from friends. I’m actually enjoying living with less, and often find myself thinking that I even brought too much!
Lynnae how awesome are those SoS guys? 🙂
I am reading Ferriss now too. But strange, I live in Italy and would like to come to the USA! I already uncluttered under the suggestions of Marie Kondo, so ok for the stuff. My problem now is the work, I am a clerk and fear to quit.
I would use the Toyota “five whys” method, starting with “What do you fear?” then ask why to whatever your answer is to that, etc. until you get to your core answer. “Fear” is not concrete enough. Be specific.
Hi, I will reiterate Monica’s (unanswered) question: What’s the deal with the apt insurance? I have stayed at long stay vacation rentals and similar, so no utility bills nor insurance, but an informal “lease” from landlord worked to get my titre de sejour. To do (my first) renewal, will apt insurance be a new required thing (like needing a birth certificate even tho it wasnt needed to get original visa)? Or did you only need it because it was somehow entailed in the lease you produced in your paperwork?
Bruce
As I stated, yes, you need to bring insurance for your property. It’s not a “new required thing” because you’re assuming that the renewal process is like the process for the original visa – except it’s different on a number of levels. My “job” on this blog is to get people as prepared as I know possible. So sending you to one of these appointments without insurance (which is both inexpensive and easy to obtain) would be remiss of me. And careless of you. You have to be prepared to produce even the things that are not listed on the sheet they give you at the prefecture. This is how the French work and I try to constantly make that clear on the blog – Bring everything, and even more than everything 🙂
hmmm…I’m not sure what renters insurance would even mean for someone like me who has been staying at essentially hotels (i.e. residence hotels) for up to 2 or 3 months at each location…I was hoping you would say that the only reason the French Govt would even care about it was that it was a required part of your particular lease, and hence was considered part of proving that you had a valid one.
Hello Steven,
My girlfriend and I are planning to stay for 12 months beginning July of 2016. Our purpose of our stat will be to learn the language and explore the culture. That being said I’ve noticed that the visa process is primarily based on individual income. I own my own business and am able to direct deposit the required amount of funds into whichever one of our personal accounts in order to show sufficient income. That being said I would prefer to avoid having to direct deposit our annual living budget (80K-100K) twice into individual accounts if at all possible. If I were to direct deposit a portion of the funds into my own account, the other portion into her account and we transferred both sets of funds into a joint account that is in both of our names would we both be able to use that joint account for verification of income?
On a side note, do you have any tips on finding a place to stay? We would love a beautiful view in the heart of the city under 2500 euros if possible.
John – last question first – give the guys at parisexpat.com a look. They’ve got some good properties and work well with English speakers.
As for the income issue – I think it might make more sense if you had a joint account – then you can both claim access to it?
Ah – Bruce – I misunderstood – I didn’t realize you meant you had been staying at short-term rentals during this past year – I thought you meant in the past, just as a point of reference about insurance in general.
So, in that case – I don’t think your problem will be with renter’s insurance. If the French are okay with you moving around every few months, they certainly won’t care about renter’s insurance. I’m not sure why you chose to do that, as it doesn’t show a lot of stability, but I don’t think you’re required to stay in any one place. It just makes your visa application simple if you do. I’ve never heard of anyone applying for a one-year visa after moving around during that one year, so keep us posted on what happens so others can learn. 🙂
Hi there,
I wrote you an email with some queries but had an additional one that’s relevant to the ones here so thought I’ll pop it in here. I’m currently subletting and have no written lease. My intention is to submit an attestation d’hébergement + facture électricité (under the name of my landlord) with his ID. My first visa has a different address and so I intend to state that I’ve only just moved. Question: I have a bank transfer record of the rent I’ve paid in Nov. Should I include that in my dossier or make it out that I’m not paying rent at all (which was the case in my first visa application) ? That way I’m off the hook for any official documents trying to prove where I live.
I obviously don’t have renter’s insurance and can’t get one.
Candice
I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking. You are providing “official documents” proving where you live in the form of the ADH and the EDF you are going to provide. If you have no written lease you clearly can’t just fabricate one now.
Remember that although this is a renewal, there is no institutional memory. When they sit down with you, it’s almost a new application – they are going to look through all the documents again. Yes, it’s a renewal, but don’t feel like “because this is how I did it last time this is how I have to do it this time.”
I also don’t know why you would have to prove you pay rent when you already have an ADH?
I’ve found your blog to be quite interesting and helpful! I hope to move to Paris as you have done later this year and I’m soaking up as much information as I can about living there!
I get what you’re saying about frozen food, but what about leftovers? How do you (and presumably, Parisians) feel about leftovers?
Also, what 3 dishes should I learn to cook before moving there?
Brooke the nice thing about French cooking is…you don’t need leftovers! You cook and eat *enough.* I never have leftovers here because it’s not a problem. Whereas in the US you have places like the Cheesecake Factory where you might as well order two boxes to go as soon as you order your salad, since it’s enough to feed an entire village, usually.
Here’s more info for you: http://m.france24.com/en/20160104-france-doggy-bag-law-restaurants-food-waste
Three dishes you should learn before moving here? Well, you are going to impress/scare the French if you can cook their food before you even get here, but let’s go simple, okay?
Coq au Vin
Blanquette de Veau
and a standard steak/frites
I’m very old-school in my French culinary tastes so if you’re looking for something a bit more avant-garde, I’m not your guy 🙂
Thanks for the recommendations!! I’m gonna try!!
Actually by leftovers I mean like taking what you made last night to work the next day for lunch or having the same thing for dinner the next night. I made a dish last night to last me most of the week because of my busy schedule.
Brooke – I tend to cook for just me without too much left over, because I like to cook. If I have some leftovers its usually just enough for a snack which I might have at tea as a lunch replacement.
Very helpful info! Somewhat off-topic, have you had to convert your American drivers license to a French one or have any experience with that? We are coming up on our 1 year and planning for the visa renewal, but also understand we are meant to have converted our licenses within the year as well. Were you/ have you ever been asked for your French license?
Naomi – I’m not a driver here – I drove over a million kilometers when I lived in America and bask in the beauty of public transportation supplemented by taxis and uber. If you don’t convert your license within one year, you won’t be able to, and will be dumped into their arcane system of driver’s education and training. So, if you have any intention of staying here long term AND driving, you better get your license.
For me, the hassle and trade off of not keeping my American license, when you can use it for so many things there, including domestic travel, I made the conscious decision NOT to get a French license. I may write on this topic at some point.
Hi Stephen,
My question is that whether I should prove that I pay rent to fulfil the criteria of having a Quittance de Loyer, as that may strengthen my case. The ADH is written by my landlord and the EDF is under his name (as stated in my original reply). Hence, I can get one without a written lease. The purpose of the EDF is to prove that he is connected to the property. Yes, I get your point on forgetting the first time, but the reason why I’m drawing on the previous experience is to explore the options on how I should present my case.
As far as I know, most sublets do NOT have a formal written lease in Paris that’s legally actionable. And that causes a problem.
I hope this clarifies?
Candice – I think you’re making a huge distinction between ADH and QDL as proofs of residence – except there’s not such a big distinction at the prefecture. And it’s not the part of your application that receives the most attention. All they want to know is that you are staying in France legally in some kind of regular residence. If you were able to obtain your visa with an ADH (which was perfectly acceptable to OFII when I presented one for my 90-day visit after I first arrived) I don’t see why it wouldn’t do in a renewal situation.
Furthermore, you don’t have to “prove you pay rent” in order to get a QDL. Your landlord issues you one or doesn’t – you don’t have to provide a QDL AND proof you pay rent to the prefecture. The QDL is its own standalone document that says you are in good standing at that place, though a QDL is going to lead to the follow up question of “where’s your renter’s insurance”?
In my case, I have a lease and renter’s insurance, and have since about the 3rd month I lived in Paris, but even then, when it came to this point in the interview, my inspector glanced at the lease to verify that the address was the same, then put it onto her “done” pile, then looked at my insurance to see that it matched the address, ran her fingers along the policy limits, then flipped it onto the done pile. Probably about 20 seconds altogether.
Do I think that they may look a bit more closely at an ADH + EDF + someone else’s ID? Sure. But I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker. As long as you can explain your situation, and have documentation to back yourself up, you should be fine. Does that help?
Hi Stephen,
Yes thanks heaps. I’m just overthinking this in true French fashion of pre-empting the possible obstacles they could throw to complicate everything. I keep being settled at what I have and then I’ll go into panic mode and think of other documents that I can add to my dossier! Especially in this case, a QDL was mentioned (as an OR though). Honestly, I am baffled by their acceptance of an attestation in such a manner while being notoriously a stickler for admin. Back in Australia, we call it a statutory declaration and it needs to be witnessed by a Justice of Peace or other notarised persons. Thank goodness no such thing here else it’ll really do my head in! Cheers.
NP. Keep us updated, okay? Let us know how it goes. Bonne chance!
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Please do a post on joining social security in France. I have heard that it is possible to buy into the system if you pay taxes in France and that it is much cheaper than private insurance. Thanks.
Sharon – I’ll write more on this as I make the transition myself!
Félicitations!
Thank you!
Hi Stephen! I’m so glad I found your blog! I have an appointment in May (travel date is end of August). The consulate requires a contract for at least 3 months. In your experience, does an airbnb booked for 3 months suffice? Alternatively, how can I get a 3 month contract (preferably one that can be broken) ahead of time?
Melissa
Where you live is it common to find 3 month contracts that can be broken? That’s what we call “month to month” here, and people rarely do that, given what a premium it is to have an apartment inside the periphique.
May I suggest you simply get an attestation de hebergement, possibly from your airbnb host, rather than try to find a person willing to give you a 3 month breakable lease? 😉
Thanks for your reply! You make a good point. I tried looking up Attestation de hebergement but am still a bit confused… Is there an official form I can find, or is it just a letter signed by the host? I’m assuming it should be notarized as well, yes?
I had a bon voyage party for me and my friends right before my first trip to Paris and was given this book. Very cute and funny!
Melissa – not an official form – it just needs to identify the person, identify you, say you’re living there for X amount of time, and to be doubly safe, should come with a photocopy of the person’s ID and EDF. If you can only get a photocopy of the ID that’s fine. Saves a trip to the notary which is expensive and unnecessary.
Is there an online/easy way to get renters insurance (with a French document, because I assume it has to be in French)? Or who is the guy you mentioned? I don’t have a french bank account (no french income) so I’d rather not set foot in one.
btw – I didn’t have 3 months left on my long stay visitor visa (only 2, which is when the French consulate in Miami told me ON A PRINTED DOCUMENT to go for renewal) so I went to the Paris prefecture anyway. They would not let me in. They said make an appointment (via the online site), and as long as you made the appointment before the visa expires it is ok. We’ll see how it plays out.
Brian – did the document tell you to go to the Prefecture for an appointment and neglect to say “make an appointment”? This might be a lost in translation moment – the staff at the consulate might have thought in their French brains, “Surely he won’t go to the Prefecture without an appointment…imagine what would happen if we allowed that”? 🙂
You’ll be fine as long as you got a date.
The document which I received last April from the French consulate in Miami says (in English) something like “to renew your long stay visa go to the prefecture within the last two months before it expires” and “They will give you a list of things you need and you can make an appointment”. Bad information, obviously. But that is what it says.
Lol – I got something similar – mine looked like it was a photocopy of a photocopy. Sorry they were lazy but glad you had enough time!
Hello!!
It Is June and my visa ends on October 16. My passport expired June 2017. Two questions, can I still renew my long stay visa even though it’s past the 6 month mark? And will I need to renew my passport before the appointment since if I get the extension it would be valid beyond June 2017?
Thanks!!!
Val you can’t do a “renewal” on an expired visa. You can apply for a new one. As for your passport, that’s not really relevant – as long as it’s valid at the time you present it (and isn’t expiring within a few months) you’ll be fine – but in general I say don’t wait until your passport is nearly expired to renew.
I just found your blog and it’s wonderful!
This post in particular is really speaking to me right now. I’m going through just the same, trying to fit 30 years of accumulation into a few large overseas shipping boxes and some suitcases. My husband has already made this sort of move when he first came to the usa from france so he seems to be having no issue with tossing or donating his this….me on the other hand, I feel like it’s a constant fight to move things out of the “keep” pile. My only saving grace is the $ signs that pop up when I start thinking about how much it will cost me to ship more than what we already have!
Brenna I encourage you to read “packing party” on the Minimalists. Could help 😉
Hi Stephen, Thanks for writing this. Could you let me know where you had your birth certificate translated? Also, you wrote that we’d need 12 months of bank statements. On the prefecture’s list of requirements, the way I understood it is they want to see a bank statement showing you have money equivalent to 12 months worth of salary (for someone earning minimum wage) at the time of application. So just your recent statement, not one that goes 12 months back? Thanks again.
June – if you send me an email I can get you my translator’s information.
If you are speaking about your original application, yes, you are correct, and to an extent, for the renewal as well. The reason for the 12 months of bank statements is that you are a) demonstrating that you are living here in France and b) are not making income here. I have had readers tell me that they have gone in with bank statements certifying a large amount of capital and that has been satisfactory.
HI Stephen, just wondering if have you heard any more about whether these bank statements need to be translated into French? I have an australian bank account and am worried that the cost of translating 12 months would be huge! thanks 🙂
Lisa – I think that 12 months of original (in English) Australian bank statements, along with a letter, in French, from your bank, which testifies to your moving daily/monthly balance, should do the trick.
The aduciel website provide above does not function correctly. If anyone has an easy way to get renters insurance in Paris without having a French bank account, please advise. The amount of time I have spent researching and trying to obtain is now at the ridiculous level.
Dude, you were so immensely helpful! Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
I thought I would go to Chicago and just start filling out forms and leave with my Visa.
Our situation is completely different as we will be retiring and relocating to France, which means I’m not sure how the proof of income thing works.
Heidi
If you really thought that I think you might examine whether you should really be retiring and relocating to France 🙂
In all seriousness, though, have you ever spent more than 2 weeks here? If you haven’t, I would just come on a 90 tourist visa (no paperwork) and make sure that you really want to do this. I’m always wary of people declaring they want to retire someplace when they haven’t “pregamed” that place yet. Spend 3 months here. You’ll know for sure by then.
The proof of income for you is the same as for any visitor – you just have to prove sufficient income. Just show them a retirement account that will provide you with sufficient income. Or your social security payments. Etc.
Thank you Stephen, yes, we’ve been there. My whole family is in love with France. However, we do intend to rent for a year, at least, visiting the areas we are interested in possibly settling down.
Cool! Well if I can help in any way, please let me know 🙂
Hi Stephen, My original insurance provider is unable to provide a policy in French. Can you please give me the information for your agent?
Sure – send me an email and I’ll get it to you.
I’m having trouble emailing you. Can you send you me your email address or email me?
Patricia – sent you an email.
Thanks for all the info. I have 2 questions. Do you need the same things for the 3rd year, etc? In other words, Do you need a new translated birth certificate, marriage certificate, etc. each year? Second, since my husband and I will have two separate appointments – do we EACH need everything original for the long stay visa the first time and each subsequent time? Thank you!
Karen
Karen
Once you have an “official” translated document that’s good for life. The translation doesn’t expire.
I don’t quite understand your second question.
For anyone needing renter’s insurance (which is everybody needing to renew a long stay visitor visa): The US embassy website has a list of resources on various topics, including insurance.
After I emailed them and filled out a form, they mailed me the certificate/document I need. I haven’t had my visa appointment yet, but I do have a document that (I think) says I have renter’s insurance.
Brian – thanks for this, and let us know how it works out!
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Thank you for all of your valuable information. I’m trying to make my way back to France long term and this is so helpful. Thank you!
Hi Stephen, this blog post is SO helpful!!! i was just wondering, i cant get my health insurance policy in French (and as you say to get it translated would be expensive). can you please tell me who your insurance provider was?
Lisa – email me directly and I’ll connect you with them.
Hi I’m also an US expat I love the concept of your blog . I’ve been dying to talk to someone like you about one point. Driver’s licence. Would it be ok for you to tel us more about it?
I answered this on another post. But here’s a more complete one: http://ielanguages.com/license.html
Hi sorry it took me too long to reply ! thank that is all of the info that i needed thank you ! how are you doing? Thanks I’m still working on it and on the concept, i hope that this year i can get some more time to blog on it. I just had so much on my plate for the past 2 years now (wow), with work and all. Are you still in France?
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I’ve been reading your blog for a while now and have to say I enjoy this glimpse into “the system.” My husband and I hope to move to France one day. Our situation will be different than yours (retirement or, fingers crossed, the arts visa), but it’s nice to see someone’s look into the reality of dealing with all the bureaucracy.
What is the fiscal year in France? When are the filings supposed to happen?
Thanks.
FY = Jan 1 – Dec 31
Filings for business taxes are in April-May, personal in May-June.
Hey, can you please help me figure out where I can get a translation of my birth certificate? I have my original and it is in Russian, though I am now an American Citizen, I carry a US passport, but am here studying french. Thank you!
Stella if you send me an email I can connect you with a translator.
done! 🙂
Is there an English version of the long stay questionnaire?
Andrea I’m guessing it depends on which consulate you’re going to. I would check with them.
This is so true…that Carte Noire “le baiser” ad is the absolute worst! There was a pretty horrific Audi ad playing for a while as well. Glad I’m not the only one who laughs at these 😀
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Hi Stephen, Just a question on the total amount needed in your bank account. if the minumum wage is around 1,500 to 2000 euros per month so you would require a total of about minimum 20,000 euros in your account to present to them is that correct?
James – yes – or an account you have access to, like a 401K or something you are a signatory to. Alternatively, something that shows you will be receiving the necessary monthly income, either a letter from an employer or a bank.
I have to find this book ! I love Paris! Thank you!
We just got back from a two-week house/pet sitting trip to Palm Springs, CA, then Canada next month. But in October…Italy and France!
Where in Canada?
Hi Stephen, just got a quick question. Do you have to surrender your old carte de sejour? Would you be able to still travel with just the recipisse? thanks
Naomi – yes, traveling with the recipisse is sufficient – but I’ve recently been traveling in Schengen, and as usual, have not even had to show my passport, much less my French ID, but I applaud your thoroughness in bringing it along (I left it at home 🙂 )
I’m not headed anywhere really – just got back and moving to Paris at the end of August! Saving up all my coins for the move 🙂
I just returned from the prefecture with my recipisse (receipt?) for my carte de sejour. They gave me another appointment 3 months from now to pick up the actual card. Here are my tips for US citizens renewing their long stay visa:
Prefecture Meeting: I have a fairly large amount of money in my US-based bank/brokerage account. I showed them the most recent one month statement and that was sufficient. (I had a year’s worth of bank activity printed and ready as a back-up). However, the woman said “You need a bank account in France next year”, implying for the next visa renewal I will need to have a French bank account. My bank statement was in English.
Important NOTE: I was surprised by this: I WAS REQUIRED TO SHOW THEM MY OFII MEDICAL VISIT DOCUMENT. This is a document you receive when you complete your OFII medical visit after your first arrive in Paris. Thankfully I had everything with me in a folder, so I had this document. It has a couple of stamps on it… and unfortunately the woman at the prefecture took the original – I hope I do not need it again for the next renewal. (Of course, the fact that I have the OFII stamp in my passport indicates I passed the medical visit, but they wanted the document today anyway.)
So the documents they took were:
– Renter’s Insurance
– Health Insurance
– Bank statement
– OFII medical visit
– EDF power electricity document (A QDL document from your landlord if you do not have a power bill)
– Birth certificate (translated into French, cost me 50 euros, can’t recommend my translator, too bad for her)
So thanks to Stephen for the information. Hopefully this summary is beneficial to someone.
Hi Stephen,
thank you for this information. One question, how long do you need to renew the long term stay visa before it ends? Because I currently have a 6 month visa and I was hoping to get another 3 months after that under a tourist visa (by simply leaving and re-entering the country after the long stay visa ends) before renewing my long stay visa.
Thank you!
Cheejun
I’m a bit confused by your question. If you mean, can you stay as a tourist for 90 days after your visa ends by exiting and then returning, the answer is yes. If the question is, can you renew after being under a tourist visa, then the answer is no, as you can’t “renew” something that is expired. You would need to apply for a new visa.
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Hi Stephen,
Just a quick question, do they absolutely require a French/American bank account or any bank account will do? Because my family lives in Singapore and I was hoping to get my dad to print his bank statement and vouch that he will support me financially should I extend my visa (is that possible too?).
Thank you for everything!
Mark
Since I’m writing the American in Paris blog, I will refer to “American” bank accounts but surely a Singaporean would not be using an American account, right? As far as renewal goes, the reason I say a French account is the way to go is because then that part is easier. If you have a letter in French from your father, along with a letter from your bank, in French, noting that you have access to these accounts, and then all the statements of the accounts in English, then I think you could possibly be okay. But giving him a bunch of English-spoken bank accounts with an explanation in English? That’s not going to work.
Hey Stephen!
Just came across your blog- the info are so helpful!
I do have a question though- I have a long stay student visa that allow me to start on the 21st August, but i have to go to France earlier on the 13th to take care of the house renting process , do you think I can make it with a reasonable explanation to the customs Officials?
Thanks so much for your reply in advance!
Emily is the visa a sticker in your passport?
Hey stephan!
Thank so much For replying- yes it is!
I would really find out whether you can show up before the date in the visa. Otherwise, come in through another Schengen zone country like Spain or Germany and then come into France that way and avoid explanations.
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Great account you give of the vacation atmosphere in France Stephen! Looking forward to your next post
Your blog is fabulous and informative! It has helped us so much to be prepared. We are having difficulty finding health insurance. We have an apartment in Grasse and also in New York. We are retired and wish to obtain a long stay visa so we are not subject to the 90 day/6 month rule. Our daughter and her family currently live in Geneva; hence, we would like to spend extended time in EU. Insurance I am finding limits the time one can spend when returning to USA. If we exceed the limit, the policy is canceled. Any suggestion would be appreciated. Thanks.
Lesia – email me and I will get you connected.
Hi Stephen, Im trying to get a head start on the process and i was wondering if they need a long copy of the birth certificate or will an abstract work? Does it need to be less than 6months old? Also, is an apostille required? (Im also going through the process for a pacs and they require a long version less than 6months old with apostille so im hoping to only have to order them once!)
Cheers and thanks for the helpful post!
Abbey
Abbey – none of those bells and whistles required. Abstract plus certified translation will be A-OK.
Stephen,
Well, I cannot thank you enough for this article. How nerve wrecking it has been, to get some of these things understood, and you have helped tremendously.
The only concern I have left is the Attestation d’accueil, or accommodation certificate. All I have is a friend whom I am staying with, who did write a letter stating she is housing me, and I have copies of her passport and rental agreement, but I see that she may need to get something more formal authorized at the city hall.
I leave to Chicago to turn my papers in, in four days. I’m so worried…I do t have anything official for my accommodation. It would be sad, because anyone can docture a hotel email receipt.
Any advise?
Marcus
I wouldn’t worry. You’ve done the best you can in your circumstances. Remember that I didn’t have all my paperwork ready the first day myself. They will tell you what you need to get and you’ll get it! 😉
You’re so great in responding, again, I thank you. You sharing experiences on this blog help as well…what a great move!
Al the best!
Aaron Marcus
Stephen,
Wow…took less than three business days to get my visa! Whohooo! You certainly helped, and I thank you for that. There were no issues with my documents, and the accommodation was sufficient with my friend’s copy of rental agreement, utility bill, a copy of her passport, and a signed letter from her stating I would be staying with her. I provided a lot of supporting documents for my income, which I think they are more concerned about. The process too about one hour, including waiting there on a Friday afternoon. Thanks again for your blog, and guidance to all of us!
We are all about happy conclusions here, Aaron. Welcome, and if you find yourself in Paris, do look me up!
I would like that…and will be there November time frame.
My current situation.
1. Working as an IT consultant for LOREAL USA
2. Will be travelling to France on a business trip and need to stay for more than 90 days.
3. Purpose of Travel: Meetings with LOREAL IT colleagues in France for training, visiting L’Oréal factories , collaborating team members on IT project for LOREAL .
4. My first date of travel is 9/2/2016, and will be travelling multiple times in next 1 year.
5. I will not be paid in France
6. US Citizen , MS is Engineering , 15 Years IT Experience
I believe a long stay VISA is required because the total duration of stay in France is more than 90 days.
Pls advise what type of VISA is required and the procedure /steps to get the VISA.
before explaining what the law states I would like to describe a couple of scenarios which should illustrates how to handle the situation:
1 – you will have several “short stays” over a period of 1 year.
A solution could be for you to have no immigration documentation, each stay is about 2 months, maybe less maybe more but never more than 3 months. You make you sure that you do not stay more than 6 months per calendar year.
You stay strictly within the Schengen regulation, since you leave before 3 month stay and less than 6 months for the fiscal residency.
2 – you are not sure that you can limit each stay within 90 days
A solution would be to ask on your own merit a long stay i.e., immigration visa, called “visiteur” which allows you to stay in France but not work in France. Since you maintain all your tied with the American company and you are working in France.
This is the lowest level of immigration status and the requirements are:
Showing that you have accessible about $22,000 in an account including a retirement one,
Showing that you have secured an address in France which can be a hotel,
Showing that you have secured a comprehensive health insurance company. Loreal France should be able to help you with that.
3 – LOREAL France wants you to be able be integrated in the French company even if you are not working.
Then they need to start an expat (cadre détaché) procedure which has no chances to be done by Sept. 2nd.
Therefore considering the fact that you only have a week before leaving the safest thing could be the 1st one and see what kind of immigration status do you need if any. If Loreal does not want to help then 2 – visiteur is your only alternative.
Giri
There’s an answer from the Pro himself, Jean Taquet. Hope that helps!
Yes, very much so. The odometer turns on the end of my third year this December 🙂
My husband and I are moving to Paris from Manhattan/New York permanently. Since we are retired we have problems finding health insurance despite the fact that we are in outstanding health. Can you recommend a health insurance company who insures retirees? After 3 months of permanent stay we will sign with the PUMa. Still, for the long-stay visa we need proof of health insurance for one year. We will cancel it as soon as we have the Carte Vitale.
I would have emailed you directly, but couldn’t find your email address.
Thank you so much for your help
Marie – my email address is on the right hand side of the blog. If you look there and email me I can assist you further.
Hi Stephen, I am so happy to come across your blog while searching for information on long stay visa application. I know all along it’s not going to be easy. But thanks to your details description at least now I am not entirely clueless. I also LOVE your closing paragraph about living the life on your own terms and I wish I will get to do the same! THANK YOU! ~Allison
Do keep us posted on your progress!
Bonjour Stephen! I am thoroughly enjoying your BLOG. Thank you! Good job! I see that you were able to renew your Visitors Visa in France, which is not what I have been told at all. Good news. I have a question. If I come first on a 90 day visa–I am American, can I leave France and go to another Country other than all the way back to America to re-enter for another 90 days. I want to check it out first, I think, but not be illegal at all.
Yes, but you have to leave the Schengen Area, and you cannot re-enter for 3 more months. Then you can come back and max out your 6 total months in the year on a tourist visa.
I see! So it would be best to try for the one year visa right off! Thank you!
Hi there and thank you!
I would love help. My long term visitor Visa expires January 14th and I have been trying to book an appointment on line but I cannot get the website to work and I cannot get through on the call.
I would be going to Montpellier… or I could go to Nime.
Help! All I want to do is set my appointment 🙂
Thank you!
Laurie
I went to the Paris prefecture and they would NOT make an appointment for me. They said the only options were online of telephone. Try someone else’s phone or computer/browser.
Dear Ms. Strickland,
Stephen Heiner forwarded your email message.
I believe that you have the long stay visa and also the OFII stamp which you got once you finished the medical visit.
Legally speaking the OFII stamp is your immigration ID and its validity is the same as your visa. Therefore the information you need to book the appointment with the prefecture is on this stamp and not the visa. Indeed on the upper left corner there 3 numbers the last of the 3 is “le numéro d’étranger” which is the one used by the prefecture as an ID Nº for your length of your stay. The system generates the confirmation of the appointment called “convocation” which has your ID Nº. It also give you the list of documents to bring at the meeting. Make sure that the file is complete
This is the most common difficulty when people try to book an appointment through the website.
Doing it through the phone it used to be very difficult as the line was busy all the time. Today I find a lot easier after navigating through the choices offered. The very first thing again that is asked is the ID Nº. This phone number is not easily found on the site, 01.56.95.26.80.
Last comment you are better off taking the very 1st appointment of the day 8:45. Yes you wait at least 30 minutes outside the building as it is better to show before 8AM but you end up being one of the very first ones arriving in that office and you are out of there within just one hour.
This is for the prefecture in Paris, the other prefectures have pretty much the same procedure.
Hi Stephen,
I just had my interview with the French Consulate this morning for a long term student visa. They took all my paperworks, asked me no question, fingerprint, paid the fee and took my passport with a prepaid fedex envelope. is this a good sign that i will get approved?
All the Best,
Sophia
Sophia if they didn’t have any clarifying questions for you at the time of the interview, then yes, I think it’s a good sign you will be approved.
Hello Stephen , I’m not sure if this would be the right place for my question. I’ve been searching for answers all over the internet but in vain. I’m trying my luck here, if you could help me with this that would be great.
I’m an Indian working in France now. I came for my masters M2 and have been living in France since August 2015. I would like to bring my spouse to France at the beginning of next year. I found that “long stay visitor visa” type seem to match for this purpose. I would like to know roughly about the contents to be written for the “purpose letter”.
Hello Arun
This is not an area I feel competent advising in (bringing a spouse who was not previously part of your visa application). I have emailed you privately and connected you with a professional who can assist you further.
thanks much Stephen.
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This is my Dream City But Not yet Visa
Plz help me Freach People
Hello Stephen,
Thanks for this article, I have been searching the internet for more information on this topic and there is very little out there, so this is great!
I am looking to do the visitor visa application to join my boyfriend (a French guy) in France for about 6 months. I am unsure about the letter of employment however, since I will be leaving my job for this period. I should have sufficient proof of finances to support me during this stay, however I am concerned that they will require me to be employed in the US in order to approve. Do you have any further insight into this?
Thanks!
Sara
Sarah I have assisted numerous people with this and you do not have to be employed. Just have proof of access to sufficient income.
Hi Stephen,
Great, thank you! That is reassuring to hear 🙂
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I’m surprised by the jump in food costs. I’m currently surviving off of Picard and Marks & Spencer (I refuse to cook in my shoebox in St. Germain) but I figured once I moved to a place with a regular kitchen, my costs would go down. The markets seem to be fairly cheap.
Yet another piece of (possibly useful) information: I now have my plastic “titre de sejour” card. I’ve been through this process once already. So now I am planning ahead and trying to make an appointment early… months prior to my visa expiring… so I don’t have to worry about what I’ll do if they won’t renew it (which they will/should, but I don’t like to worry) next year.
Guess what? You can NOT make an appointment for a time prior to your visa expiring. Right now I am 5 months prior to visa expiration, and the 1st appointment shown as available is the 1st day AFTER my visa expires. So unless the visa office is closed from now until May 2nd, they aren’t letting me make an appointment until after my visa is officially expired. Unreal.
Such a long delay at the Paris prefecture has existed for a long time for some offices. Private life is indeed about that time. Now there is ZERO, truly NO need to ask for an appointment before the card expires. It is even detrimental to you to have an appointment too early as you could lose some months on the validity of the card as they tend to start the new card the day of the appointment in those circumstances. If you past a few weeks and even more a few months, you can always ask for a ‘récépissé’ to bridge until the day of the appointment.
Maybe some appointments will open up also if you check often. Maybe. Good luck.
never count on that those prefecture appointments are worth close to gold. Exceedingly rare they are cancelled. Also once you have one appointment you cannot get a new one unless you cancel it before and running the risk of losing both as the better deal will surely be gone by the time you can choose it!
Hi Stephen,
Sooo my passport does not expire until 2019 and i only have exactly 2 blank pages. Will the long-term visa take up one of those pages and is that acceptable or should i think about getting a new visa?
Thanks so much
Anh
Yes it will take up a whole page and yes you should get a new passport before then.
I am retired and make the trip to France frequently but hate to leave after only 3 months there. I just left France on December 1 but would have liked to stay during Christmas. At any rate, I have already made air line reservations to stay 3 months (beginning in April) and have written a lease for the same 3 months (while I was in France last month). I plan to make an application to stay 6- 12 months and if and when approved for a Visa would change the air line reservations and lease so that I will arrive earlier and leave later. Also, my appointment with the French Consulate is in late December, more than 3 months before my scheduled arrival time in April, but not when I would prefer to depart which would be February. Can this work? Or do I have to make reservations now that show a stay longer than 3 months? and a departure time within 3 months? Thank you in advance for your help.
Dan you have a number of scattered questions. Let me try to get you focused.
No, you cannot go to a consulate more than 90 days before your departure. It says that specifically on the consulate’s website.
When you make up your mind about when you want to go, walk back 90 days in the calendar and that’s the soonest you can go to the consulate. If you follow the directions in this post from that point, you will get a visa. 🙂
Thank you, Stephen. You are most helpful. So, does that mean I don’t need to show an “e-ticket” for my departure date? I would like to depart on February 15 (within the 90 days of submitting my application), but to be on the safe side, I made air line reservations for the first of April (which I could cancel). Thanks again!
Dan – as I said above – my checklist does not include your needing to show them an “e-ticket.” Again, you are obtaining permission to enter their country – a ticket seems to indicate you will get a positive response. Get permission first. I repeat, the French (or any government for that matter) don’t care whether you actually come here during this part of the visa process. You are simply obtaining permission to come. Once you do that, and then you actually do come, there are other steps to complete (which I have outlined). Of course, it is perfectly sensible to, as you have done, buy tickets. But as far as I know, it is not a part of your application.
I should have mentioned that unlike Chicago, the San Francisco Consulate does make it part of the application and clearly states #13 requirement, “E-TICKET OR RESERVATION CONFIRMATION EMAIL SHOWING THE SATE OF DEPARTURE TO
EUROPE. http://www.consulfrance-sanfrancisco.org/spip.php?article2703
Dan – I stand corrected! Thank you! This is a great piece of info for any of the readers of the blog, though, it surprises me for the reasons I said above – having a ticket presumes a positive response, in a certain way. Nevertheless, follow directions – that’s the key message of this blog 🙂 Bring the e-ticket with the date that matches your request. If other readers have experienced this requirement, please feel free to share with us!
Just a follow up – it looks like the visa appointment lead time right now is SIX MONTHS. It does not appear contingent upon the expiration date of my visa. But it means you must make your appointment SIX MONTHS prior to when you want it. (This is for the prefecture in Paris). Unbelievable…
(and M. Taquet – there are plenty of reasons to want your visa finalized before it’s expiration date)
BT – Were you able to make an appointment six months in advance prior to your expiration? My understanding was that the online system would only accept a person’s request no more two months before expiration. Appreciate your info.
Right now I am 6 months prior to expiration. The online site went through the process of taking my titre sejour number, birthdate, etc. then gave me next available appointment times.
The earliest appointment date that is available is 6 months from now. That is AFTER the expiration of my visa. It looks like I can go ahead and make this appointment reservation, but I won’t be in town at that time. So I have to wait for LATER times to become available. Because of this I did not go ahead and MAKE my reservation/appointment. However it looks like I just make the reservation like I did last time and it will give me the appointment for 6 months from now.
Maybe what you heard is that you can obtain an appointment date that is at most 2 months prior to your visa expiration date. I do not know if that is the case. For me to have tried to get an appointment date 3 months prior to my visa expiration it looks like I would have had to make an appointment about 3 months ago – which is actually about the time when I picked up my card from the office from LAST YEAR’s renewal process.
I will update on this blog about 1 month from now when I accept an appointment time for June.
BT – ok, that makes sense. Thank you for your response.
You are welcome and keep in mind that the Paris prefecture is currently massive renovation and this disorganises some their work AND has recently set up the text message alert to pick up the new card when ready. It is not properly working either. So people need to be very careful when renewing their immigration status in Paris right now and probably for most of 2017.
These 2 months come from OFII and clearly they have not followed the steady increase in the delay to obtain the appointment. These last days, I had clients arguing I was wrong since the French administration stated 2 months. Then when they saw the appointment secured 2 days after the expiration date, the discussion changed.
I confirm the blocking of the prefecture if one tries more than 6 months before. I also confirm that the appointments are issued right now about 6 months in advance. It is quite unusual and I do not have an explanation for this.
I know that they are valid reasons for people to attempt to book an appointment before the expiration date. The risk is that the new card starts at the date of the meeting and not the expiration date of the old card. People decide if this is worth it.
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I totally agree. Home is where you feel at peace. I am not there yet. If i could I would move to Paris in a heart beat. Money and my age at the moment stop me. However I am busy working on it.
Thank you Stephen. My family and I are making the deliberate decision to move to Paris next June. We have experienced the question “Why?” every time we tell someone our plans, the second question is always “Do you have family there?” and our answer is “No.” “Is it for work?” is inevitably the third question, and our answer to that is also a resounding “No.”, as my husband works for a company in Australia (our country of birth), and holds a position of working two weeks, and then having two weeks off, which has allowed us the flexibility and freedom to pursue our dream of living in Paris. Our intention is for our children to attend public school in Paris, learn the language, and hopefully, lay the foundations of our future in France. Only time will tell, but we are going to give it our all.
Wow Tammy! Do let me know when you get here. Would be great to meet you guys 😉
“Toto, I’ve a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore.”
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for providing all of the above listed information – much appreciated!
I am Australian and currently on a 1 year tourist visa in France. I recently went for my appointment to extend and have been asked to return with further documentation. I am however having difficulty in getting information from the Prefecture de Police regarding the requirements of said documents (and yes, I know, I should have confirmed at the appointment – but I did not!). These are for (1) proof of income & (2) health insurance. Is this something you could possibly advise on?
(1) Proof of Income – They have requested ‘relevés bancaires en francais’. From your experience, does this means a line by line translation of my most recent bank statements (I have two – 1 US & 1 Australian), or does it mean a summary of assets across the two accounts – translated into French and converted into Euros?
(2) Health Insurance – I currently have World Nomad Health Insurance but this expires this month (hence why I need to come back with another), and I require ‘assurance medicale 1an en Francais’ for my new visa application. From your experience, if I were to move forward with another policy from world nomad (I feel comfortable with them, and like their customer service etc), would I require the full policy to be translated into French, or just the page outlining what I am covered for. Alternatively, is it better to purchase health insurance in France, from a French health care provider such as Generali?
Apologies for all of the questions. I understand that you do not work for the Prefecture de Police or immigration department. I’m just hoping that you may have come across these questions/requests before.
Thank you!
Bethaney
Hi Bethaney
The ideal is to have French bank account statements. If you don’t have a French account yes I think having the originals with a French cover page explaining the moving monthly averages with conversion to Euros would be a step in the right direction. You don’t even want to know what a line by line translation would cost.
As far as the insurance question I highly recommend getting a french policy. It will likely be cheaper and you won’t have any worries about translation. You can send me an email and I can connect you with someone if you would like.
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for the quick response!
I do not have a french bank account (as I am unable to work in France and therefore have no income it did not make sense for me to get one), so a summary of my savings across my Australian & US accounts translated into French and converted into Euros seems like the best way to go.
As for insurance, I agree. As much as I love World Nomad I believe its time to transition to a french policy. Please can you confirm your email address (I can’t seem to locate it on the site), as any recommendations would be much appreciated.
Thank you!
Bethaney
Allow me to respond. You are now a French immigrant and it is now mandatory to have a French bank account if you live in France, just like you must have health insurance valid in France. What you are doing ” so a summary of my savings across my Australian & US accounts translated into French and converted into Euros seems like the best way to go.”
will only buy time and you will go back 3 months later with the proof of the opening of the French bank account and the last statement.
So you are much and I mean MUCH better off opening the account NOW!!! You might still have to go back to show your statements but the hardest part will have been done and the problem is fixed sooner than later.
Hi Bethaney,
I am Australian and I think I might face the same problems when I go to renew as well. It is really difficult opening a bank account in France since terrorist attacks without considerable amount of wealth to invest in an International Bank (such as HSBC)
I have a 2 year travel insurance comprehensive policy with QBE in Australia which has already paid out twice in France! Surely this is enough!
Bethaney if you join our Facebook group there are at least a couple Americans who have opened a French bank account with standard opening balances. We can pass on names and contacts to you there.
I have the list of the documents needed for just about all the different immigration statuses that exist. I can send the one for you through email.
Keep in mind that the entire documentation submitted at the prefecture must be in French and therefore a policy 100% in English means a considerable cost for translating those documents. Keep that in mind when you shop for the best deal!!
Once the logic is understood and the requirements accepted, the renewal of this immigration is simple and quite cheap.
The cheapest policy that complies with the prefecture is 410€ a year, but I am not sure that the coverage it offers meets your expectation.
I can be very useful in making this process simple and cheap even when you add my fees!!!!
Jean is well worth his fees and is underpriced in my opinion 😉
BTW, this is a side issue but it can help considerably. Having a bank account in France is MANDATORY for everyone living in France including you. I know about the difficulties of opening an account for foreigners and YES the French banks state that you are foreigner and therefore you “Must” open a non resident account which asks for exorbitant deposit. Now if you “demand!” to have an account opened as a French immigrant which you are BTW, it changes radically the response coming from the bank. It is does not, then you can report this to the “Banque de France” the French Federal Reserve, suddenly the bank behaves differently!
This is just food for thoughts
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Hi there, thanks for this really helpful post and questions. Do you know if I could do a side trip to Switzerland as it is technically not part of the EU to gain a 90 day tourist visa? I really only need to renew for another 3 months but to go to London is difficult from the ski fields in France.
Also to apply for this extension, do you know would I just attend an interview at my local prefecture? presumably I would not need to go to Paris
Thanks for your help!
Liz
If your question is whether Switzerland is outside the Schengen zone, as London is, the answer is no. If the requirements of your visa are that you leave Schengen, CH does not qualify.
Hi Stephen, Liz, Jean,
Thank you all for your feedback! I will endeavour to open a french bank account prior to my appointment, though as I do not want to transfer my savings from my Australian & US accounts into said French account (I charge everything to my credit cards and manage payments online) – I will still have to find a solution to providing those account balances in French.
I have had no luck to date in confirming with the prefecture de police on what documentation will suffice. But I will update here if and when I do for those that are facing the same issue.
I was living working in New York when I applied for my initial visa so all of my documentation was written in English. I had assumed (I know, you should never assume!) that documentation for the renewal process would be the same. So the request for everything translated into French has thrown me for a bit of a loop. It may have been easier (and only slightly more expensive) to fly back to the US to renew!
Stephen if you could please provide your email address I will email you direct. I would love your recommendations on the best french health insurance providers for foreigners living in France.
Thank you.
Bethaney
stephen at thelifeyouwant dot eu
Thank you so much for this! I’m renewing my VLS in March and this has put my mind at ease. Any health insurance recommendations are greatly appreciated, as I dislike my Cigna plan and feel it’s time to move on to a different company. Thank you, SR
Shelley send me an email content at stephen at thelifeyouwant dot eu and I’ll get you the info.
Hello,
I am a high school student in Colorado and I am studying the country of France currently. I have read your blog and would like to ask you some questions.
When you first arrived in France what was the biggest cultural difference you had to face?
What is your favorite thing about living in France?
What is your least favorite thing about living in France?
Would you say you had any false perceptions about Paris before moving there or was everything exactly the way you thought it would be?
Thanks
Cameron
This sounds suspiciously like a homework assignment. Keep in mind that in a past life I taught high school students…for 15 years, so I can spot them :0
But in appreciation for said assignments, and a desire to remind the youth that research matters, I am confident that you will find all the answers to these questions, in lengthy form, on this blog. Just scroll down to the list of articles and I’m sure you’ll find article titles that should lead you to your answers.
If you need clarification on anything after having done that research, email me. That address is on the site too 🙂
Thank you for the depth of detailed information. I have a few questions of my own:
We are American citizens living with permanent Mexico residence visas in Mexico (for 8 yrs now). Must we be in the USA to begin the long-stay visa process, or could it be done within Mexico? What type of office are we looking for, specifically?
We are hoping to spend 6 months in France starting later this year 2017. We were intending to buy a return ticket 6 months later (thinking positive), and booking a rental for 6 months. Do you see an issue with our being presumptive with our plans?
We are not legally married with a certificate, but rather, “common law” and did actually get married, just without the paper formality. We work online and get paid into a US bank acct, have 2 business bank accounts listing both of us as signers on the account. Will they understand marriage with no certificate status? Thoughts?
Will we be given an extension of our tourist 90-day visa if need be, for the sake of awaiting the processing of this long-stay visa?
Thanks so much for your help and availability, it is appreciated!
Thank you for your message
YOU
1 – We are American citizens living with permanent Mexico residence visas in Mexico (for 8 yrs now).
ME
This means that you have the right to ask for an immigration visa at the French consulate either in Mexico City or another city depending on where you life in that country. When you fill out the form you add the information about your residency rights. This is easy.
YOU
2 – We are hoping to spend 6 months in France starting later this year 2017. We were intending to buy a return ticket 6 months later (thinking positive), and booking a rental for 6 months. Do you see an issue with our being presumptive with our plans?
ME
There is here an important question. The legal immigration status is 3 months and then one needs to leave the Schengen area for 3 months in order to come back for another 3 months. So clearly this regulation is not compatible with your project. The fiscal residency starts in your case with a stay at least 183 days and you intent to not stay in France that long. So you are just in between. So this is where you make a choice, either you stay within the 3 months limit in the Schengen area, or you organise your life around the date of the renewal of your immigration title in France. The good news is that some of this can be done through the website, for example booking the appointment for most prefectures now but submitting the file asking for the visa and all the renewal requests you must submit this file. Also you must pick up the immigration ID in person. So it will require some strategy so those dates comply with your schedule in France.
Now as long as you do not stay in France more than 6 months, you will not subject to declare your worldwide income to France. The “visiteur” immigration status allows you to do this.
YOU
3 – We are not legally married with a certificate, but rather, “common law” and did actually get married, just without the paper formality. We work online and get paid into a US bank acct, have 2 business bank accounts listing both of us as signers on the account. Will they understand marriage with no certificate status? Thoughts?
ME
Interestingly enough being married or not does not change much the immigration request for these reasons:
1 – it is an individual file anyway and therefore both partners have to prove everything anyway,
2 – in both cases, one needs to sign the affidavit of lodging/support if needed if the documents are in one name. If everything is in 2 names then no problem,
3 – it is personal documents more than the business ones that matters so no need to prove that you 2 can sign for the company.
YOU
4 – Will we be given an extension of our tourist 90-day visa if need be, for the sake of awaiting the processing of this long-stay visa?
ME
The legal immigration procedure ALWAYS starts with an immigration visa and therefore it is never possible to “extend” the 90 day visa waiver program. You wait in the USA for the visa to be issued. Some of them like the “mention visiteur” is done very quickly, a matter of a few days, maybe a week once it is submitted to the consulate. So you really do not need any extension.
I hope that this answers your concerns for now.
Jean Taquet
A Survival Kit for Paris SARL
61 rue de Montreuil
75011 Paris
phone: (33)(0) 9.53.62.36.11.
phone: (33)(0)1.40.38.16.11.
cell: (33) (0)6.16.81.48.07.
E-Mail: qa@jeantaquet.com
website http://www.jeantaquet.com
Hi Stephen, could you please clarify what requirement 6 (the vaccination card) was? Is this required to be completed before leaving the U.S. and is it specified anywhere? Thanks so much!
Mason – just your basic vaccination card – your doctor should have the records. I suppose you could complete it in France, but you need to be prepared to communicate in French with a doctor and explain why you need all these shots (which you probably don’t – so get the records).
Hello! My husband and I are currently in France on student visas which will end in mid-July of this year (we are in extra-intensive french language classes). My husband has been in contact with a company here in France that is interested in using his services as an addictions counselor – not as a hired employee, but as an independent contractor – which would begin in springtime most likely. Is it possible to apply for new visas while here before our student visas expire, and if so, what kind of visa would we select? And do you have a list of requirements we would need to accompany the visa applications? Thank you so much for your help!
YOU
1 – Hello! My husband and I are currently in France on student visas which will end in mid-July of this year (we are in extra-intensive french language classes)
ME
I hope that you have gone passed the visa status and that you have received the OFII stamp which is the immigration ID that you should currently hold. This document has your foreign ID Nº.
YOU
2 – My husband has been in contact with a company here in France that is interested in using his services as an addictions counselor – not as a hired employee, but as an independent contractor – which would begin in springtime most likely
ME
2 comments here:
1 – the portage salarial makes it possible for consultants working independently to have an employee status. This is important to state since the Student Immigration status only allows you to work as an employee. So this would be a way to start working right away without having to change the immigration. At the same time, the cost of this set-up is awful you retain less than 50% of the money paid buy the client between the social charges and the fee charged by the portage corporation.
2 – If you have been in France for more than 1year and this is your 2nd renewal then it is possible to prepare the file to request the change of status to become self-employed in France. A status that Stephen Heiner has obtained almost the same way.
It does not fit with the above 2.
3 – you can also work in France and invoice from the USA. It is the simplest way of all but you need to comply with some rather strict guidelines to avoid some trouble.
YOU
3 – Is it possible to apply for new visas while here before our student visas expire,
ME
I would like to expand here because this is very important. You went through the process of obtaining a “long stay immigration” words have meanings and you are now with an immigration status and you are an immigrant of France and have the right to change your immigration status without having to leave France. BTW, you will be asking for a carte de séjour, which the name of your future and maybe current immigration ID.
These are the steps for students
the immigration visa at the French consulate
the OFII stamp obtaining once the physical is done
the carte de séjour is obtained at the 1st renewal which means the 2nd year in France
this card is renewed every year unless something in the situation changes
YOU
4 – and if so, what kind of visa would we select?
ME
Very likely, the name of the carte de séjour would be “Profession Libérale”. The file is made of 3 parts and depending of the people/their profile one is bigger from the other.
Part 1 – the ID of the person
what you are used to give passport – address – financial such as bank statements – marriage license – …….
Part 2 – the project – the business
the cover letter which includes a tiny business plan
a resume = CV
past diplomas
proof of part experience in the field
letters of interest from people in France
Proof of ability to finance such project
Part 3 – “the glitter” = “the media coverage”
articles written about you
articles or books written by you
awards received
moral references
Most of the file will be made of documents written in French either translated into French or drafted in French.
YOU
5 – And do you have a list of requirements we would need to accompany the visa applications?
ME
I gave you just above a list of what needs to be submitted and also needs to be tailored to your exact situation. I hope that with this you already have a really good good idea of what needs to be proved.
Bonsoir Jean ! Thank you so much for your answers. We really appreciate you taking the time to be so helpful and informative. So much to think about and consider! One thing we’ve heard differing thoughts on the amount of money the french government wants to see in our bank account for the “Profession Libérale” carte de séjour visa. If you have knowledge of what this is, that would be so helpful, as I trust what you say to be correct.
Although we arrived in September, it took until today for my husband to receive his OFII medical exam appointment letter…I still have not received mine. Hopefully in the next few days.
Thank you again!
Janie
hi i came upon your blog by accident looking for information on Paris. i think it is really interesting you live there as an american like me. if you don’t mind me asking what kind of businesses do you own. hope your day is well.
Hi there – I run 4 different companies, 2 that are US based and 2 that are based here in France. The two that I run here are related to what I applied for in my profession liberale visa – I write English content for French companies and I help English speakers find apartments here in Paris.
Hello Stephen. My wife and I brought everything we thought we would need paperwork-wise when we came to France last summer as students, in hopes that we would extend our visa to a long-stay status after our studies are complete (this summer). We understand we need to have our marriage license translated and we have a certified copy of such, but apparently the prefecture wants a certified original. To make a long story short, we tried to order one from the site in the US that handles this for our state, but they said since we are out of the country, we would need it to be notarized from the US Embassy since it is a US form and not international. Have you ever heard of this? Only Paris and Marseille offer notarial services once per week, but that is very costly to make a trip for from the Lyon area. The Lyon embassy informed us today that they would not be able to notarized for us on their upcoming “Off Site” day in March. Thank you for your insight you can give me as to where I could go to get this notarized and offering such a great site go us all to glean from.
Ken
Ken I’ve only used notary services at the Paris embassy once but it was a breeze. Make an appointment online, show up, pay, all done.
Thanks, Stephen – I’ll do that! Was hoping to not have to spend the euros to make a trip by train to Paris or Marseille just to get something notarized. But it’s got to get done!
Hey Stephen,
Loving your blog!
I have been to and from France for a few years now and I am applying for the long stay visa this time and have my appointment mid Feb. I have 2 questions for you and would appreciate so much if you could help because although I know the system quite well now I am still unsure of a few things that they are asking for.
– If I am running a small freelance business with all my clients in my home country, should I declare this as my form of employment? (I have more than enough money in the bank to cover my stay so not sure if I need to bring this up or not?)
– I will be staying in a colocation but my name will not be on the lease. For the attestation d’hebergement what information needs to specifically be included? Do they need to state how much I am paying? or does my name actually need to go on the lease?
Sorry, you may not be able to answer these questions. I’m just running out of options and not sure exactly what I need particularly for the accommodation …
–
Hi Annie – remember that being a long-term visitor means that they don’t care whether you are employed or not. They care about whether you have money. You *may* get a question about where that money comes from and you *may* get asked to provide proof – but I would put that in the “not required but smart to bring with me to the appointment” folder. On the ADH they need to say you are staying there for X amount of time, what you’re responsible for, etc. Your name does not need to be on the lease, but they should assume some kind of liability for your renter’s insurance in the ADH or give you a copy of their insurance.
Thank you Stephen! 🙂
Bonjour Etienne,
I could kiss you for being so thorough and informative about this stressful process. I am in the preliminary stages of applying for a long-term visa for my family of three. I am at a loss when it comes to paying taxes abroad. My husband will be employed by his US based employer but his HR dept. seems to think because we will reside in France for a year, we should be paying income taxes in France (41%!). Do you have any insight?
Seriously, you are my hero right now!
Cheers,
Elizabeth in Los Angeles
Elizabeth
Has the HR department ever dealt with this situation before?
No, My husband is an art director for his company and is going to ask his boss (he is based in NYC) for permission to work abroad for one year. The HR person also voiced concerns about the company continuing to pay for our medical benefits if we move abroad. We have many hoops to jump through before getting our visas, you see.
Elizabeth
Hello Stephen, thank you for all you are doing. I have searched for your email but not seen it . I am a Nigerian. My husband) who is also a Nigerian is a Doctoral student in Paris. He wants myself and son to join him in France in few months. He is on a scientific visa valid for two years. We are aware we(myself and son) can be depends ts on his visa….famille privee . The French consulate in Nigeria isn’t explicit in what type of visa we should apply for. Husband feels it’s long stay visa from here and we report to OFII on arrival in France for the residence permit. I also read somewhere that he has to apply on our behalf from the Prefecture in France and they communicate to us(beneficiaries) via our consulate. I am confused, is there any way you can advise ?
Oluwatosin
I’m not familiar with this particular setup (scientific visa with a family add-on) so I suggest you contact my good friend Jean Taquet who is an expert on these sorts of things. He can advise you further. He is at http://www.jeantaquet.com
I planning on applying for a long term student visa within the next month. As I understand, if I am granted the visa it will act as my residency permit and last for the 3 years of my bachelors degree. My main concern has to do with my accommodation and opening a bank account. I have found a place close to the school, but they only rent out the place for a maximum of one year. Do I have to find a new place to live every year? I am thinking of staying in a hotel for a while and then finding a place. I have the funds to support myself, but I’m not sure how I would go about opening the bank account, won’t they require some proof of residency on my part? How much cash am I allowed to bring with me? I suppose I could use online banking to pay for my hotel stay, but I still need cash to get around paris. Also I was wondering if you had a list of things to avoid during the interview.
Thanks
Michael – take small steps first. Don’t worry about a 3 year lease – get a place first so that you can figure out what is best for you. As long as you have some kind of lease – at least 6 months – you should be able to use that for getting a bank account. If you are a US citizen, that’s another kettle of fish and something I’ve already discussed here on the blog. The international rules are normal: anything less than 10k in a particular currency doens’t have to be declared.
I’ve never had a student visa interview so I can’t offer advice on that.
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Thanks for this very instructive post, especially the last paragraphs about not complaining. I’ll keep these things in mind when a return to Paris next month.
Posts like this are why I love reading your blog. Recently, DS spent a wrenching year in Paris as a graduate student, and most of what made it wrenching were the sort of things you wrote about here. So it wasn’t his fault, after all, as he kept telling us. Old city with old buildings… Phew!
Thanks Stephen! Always a positive to any potentially negative situation. I think it’s all part of the experience, can’t wait to be able to tell people about my adventures/misadventures in France! 17 weeks and counting!
Hi Stephen — loved this post and am delighted to find your blog (thanks to the always-helpful Jean Taquet and his monthly newsletter).
Cheers and look forward to reading more.
Thank you Stephen, et al.
This is an extremely helpful post and Q&A – much appreciated! In reviewing the required paperwork (the PDF on their website) to renew the long stay visitor visa, it asks for the “dernier avis d’imposition” — are they asking for one’s last tax filing from the home country (in my case the US)? Has anyone been asked to provide this at their appointment?
Thank you!
I received this message because Mr. Heiner believes that I can address this issue. The issue seems simple but it triggers a rather complex issue, which can be summed up this way? Are you really a French immigrant?
I am going to scrupulously follow your message and you will see what I mean by that.
YOU
In reviewing the required paperwork (the PDF on their website) to renew the long stay visitor visa
ME
1 – So you received a immigration long stay visa that allows you to stay in France 365 days a year. So this is why I call it immigration because there is no end to how long you can stay in France on this immigration status.
2 – You are thinking or renewing it, which means that you have come to France and went through the OFII physical a few months after your arrival in France. At that time you had met both the police and the Dr. and this bone fides 100% your status as an immigrant.
3 – A small detail which is not a true detail. You are not renewing a “long stay visitor visa” as your visa is not immigration ID right now, the so-called “OFII stamp” you got at the end of your physical is your ID since it has your foreign ID Nº on it and your French address, your domicile, in short your home.
4 – Therefore you are renewing your “VISITEUR” immigration status by applying for a carte de séjour, which is a plastic card. BTW, this “VISITEUR” immigration status does not translate by any means to visitor.
YOU
it asks for the “dernier avis d’imposition”
ME
As immigrant, you might have stayed long enough that you received the French tax statement called indeed “dernier avis d’imposition”. Since you arrived last year and the declaration is done in May you have not declared yet, and therefore the prefecture does not expect you to show this document at the meeting of the 1st renewal of your “VISITEUR” immigration status.
I would like to go back to 2 issues that could have been overlooked by you.
1 – If you have stayed in France more than 183 days in France during the 2016 year, you have become a fiscal and a legal resident in France. You obey all the French laws and regulations, and your fiscal allegiance goes 1st to France. It happens that there is a tax treaty between the 2 countries that decides that the unearned income made in the USA is taxed in the USA. Therefore if you have become a French fiscal resident you should declare to the French tax office this May 17, that is the law and this is what the treaty states. It also means that your #1040 that you must fill out must bear your French address.
2 – I remind you the 3 basic grounds on which your immigration status is based on:
a) you prove that you have financial means either saving or earnings outside of France that enables you to stay in France. The minimum to prove is 14,000€ a year.
b) you prove that you have secured a home i.e., an address in France.
c) you prove that you are covered by a comprehensive health policy valid in France. The prefecture demands that it is either issued in the French language or that it is translated.
One of the best way to prove financial means is a tax statement called in France avis d’imposition sur le revenu. Prefecture is also asking for 12 months of bank statements to check you are living in France and you are spending a minium of 14,000€.
YOU
are they asking for one’s last tax filing from the home country (in my case the US)
ME
NO! They are asking for the French tax document for reasons explained above. Now for the 1st renewal for the reasons explained above you could and maybe should submit your #1040.
YOU
Has anyone been asked to provide this at their appointment?
ME
I understand because you are asking this question that you do not consider yourself as being a French immigrant, even though you are one. You react as if your allegiance still goes to the USA when it is mainly with France, because the tax treaty creates exceptions and you fall into those exceptions.
Now comes something that most Americans are totally unaware of, all the Préfectures are very lenient with American citizens, so much that it blurs a lot of issues.
1st example, the “VISITEUR” immigration status for American citizens allows them to state that they are not French fiscal residents because they are not staying in France long enough every year. The prefecture NEVER checks whether this statement is true or not, and therefore accepts that American renew their “VISITEUR” immigration status without giving a French income tax statement. So some Americans renew with the #1040 form and it is OK. Some of them even produce no tax statement and they get away with this most of the time. This leniency is incredible when one thinks how much scrutiny the prefecture applies to study the files.
2nd example, French residents are all expected to be covered by the public health coverage administration. There again there is never a problem showing a private policy as long as a) it covers somewhat the same as the public coverage b) if the documents are not in French that there are translated.
My last comment is that these is a cost for many foreigners to have their income declared in France as it takes a professional to fill out the French and the American declarations saying the same thing. To offset this cost there can be 2 reasons to do it:
1 – under certain circumstances, it is quite possible that there are no local taxes paid in the USA only the federal one.
2 – filling 5 times in France pretty much guarantees you to obtain the carte de résident which is valid 10 years and offers all the possible rights one can have in France including all the rights to work in France.
It’s true ! Love Paris ! 🙂 <3
Hi Stephen and others,
thank you for the helpful information! I have to renew my visa soon too.
I have just one question, will the Prefecture take your passport for the time period that they need to renew your long-term visa? I mean I have to travel very often in the coming months and I need my passport.
Victoria
No they want your passport as an ID. You don’t ever leave your passport for a renewal.
Bon Soir Stephen,
We are a couple from California currently travelling outside of the US and wanted to apply for a french long term stay visa. We meet most of the requirements at first glance, however I have not been able to find the information anywhere about whether or not we can apply for the long term stay visa while in the EU? We are mainly travelling but our current “home base” for the year is with a college friend in Paris. Do you know if we are able to apply while we are in France for the long term stay visa?
Thanks for the info,
Rosario
Hi Rosario. The answer is no. You must apply in your home country. Since your “home base” has no legal standing with the French, you have no right to apply for a visa in the EU.
Ok I feared that would be the case! Thank you for the information!!!
Thanks,
Rosario
Hi, I’ve read most all of the comments and maybe I missed the answer to this. I was wondering I f you get a long term visa then return to the United States for a short while, could you apply for another same type visa or does it have to be a renewal to be able to stay long term again?
Al
Of course you could let your visa lapse and apply again in the US. But I don’t know why you would. Renewal is just about 3-4 times easier than the original application, and you get no preference for a second application. You’ll start from scratch.
Hey Stephen,
I’m gearing up for my visa renewal now. Could you provide me with the name/contact info of the translator you used and the French insurance agent? My googling attempts have not been fruitful 🙂
Also, how did you handle your apartment lease? I do not want to be presumptuous and renew for another year only to be rejected, but I reckon they want to see that I have a place to stay if I’m accepted (my current, renewable contract ends the day of my visa expiration).
Melissa
Please email me and I’ll give you the information you asked for. As for the lease – I don’t quite understand your question. To reply I would just say you need to show a lease that covers at least part of the next period you are asking for. A lease that expires on the day of your appointment won’t work. And it’s not presumptuous to ask for a year because if your visa is denied and you have to leave by mandate of France your lease is not legally enforceable.
Hey Stephen, how long did it take for you to get the first ‘confirmation’ letter back from the OFII, and then the appointment letter? Thanks!
Gonzalo off the top of my head I think a week to ten days to get the confirmation letter and then maybe another week to ten days for the appointment.
Thanks! You are really on top of this 🙂
Its been a while since I chatted with you all. Stephen, you have been a BIG help. We now have our carte de sejours. HORRAY! One thing I should share. We were unable to pay for the impot stamps at the Tabbac. We went to a local government agency to purchase the stamps. They accepted a credit card for no extra charge. We are now already looking to renew in one year. I visited the Perfecture this morning and was informed that renewing shouldn’t be a problem and that I can do it 2 months before. I was also told I would need to submit similar documentation the next time, including residence documentation, insurance varification, etc. I forgot to ask if there is a charge for renewal after one year. Does anyone know? Does each Perfecture have separate regulations?
Thanks again for all your shares, especially Stephen.
For such a large amount to be paid – now 269€ – not all the tabacs are able to provide but I know several where it is still possible.
What you are describing here is the tax office. So indeed the cashier can receive payments for the “normal taxes” as well as “sell” those stamps that are used mainly to pay fees, fines and non tax amounts owed to the French administration.
It has been more than a year now that the delay is closer to 5 months solid. Therefore I advise you to get on the prefecture website at least 5 months before the expiration of the card so you can choose the day you want as well as the time that is the best for your schedule.
Based what we know the 269€ cost is for every year and therefore expect the same cost for the next renewal.
Now that you have fully proved everything about you and your spouse the following years the file is indeed simpler
aside from your IDs and your address proved with a utility document you must prove:
your means and often your 12 months of French bank statements should be enough as long as you receive and therefore spend a minimum of 14.000€ a year
your health coverage valid in France
I just looked on one of Stephen’s sites and think he answered my questions. It looks like there is a lot to do to renew again… and a costs. Since we will not be doing this in Paris, the requirements may vary somewhat.
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Pingback: Troubleshooting: Recipisse for Renewal | The American in Paris
Wow! This post of yours comes at a very strange time… and now I am in complete panic mode. Until now, I thought one receives a recipisse at the time of one’s meeting with the prefecture. This my first time renewing my VLS-TS for a CDS. My appointment with the prefecture is next week, although I requested it before my visa expired. My visa is expired but I left before the expiration date and I am within my three-month visa-free stay now. I don’t have a recipisse and I fear that it’s too late to get one. Will this a problem with my file at the prefecture? Would really appreciate your input as I’m completely panicked now on what to do. Thank you!
Lucy
Let me try to clear up some of the confusion.
A recipisse is a stand-in for a CDS. In your first year you receive neither a recipisse nor a CDS, but your original visa sticker, plus the additional sticker you get from OFII, is your visa.
I think the problem is your idea that you can flit back and forth between visa statuses, as in, you can be in LTS, and then when that expires, flip over to the tourist visa, and then flip back to LTS. That’s not how it works. When your passport expires, you are ineligible to get it renewed. You simply have to get a new passport. Similarly, when your visa expires, and you do not get an extension (via a recipisse) until your appointment date, your visa is expired. Now, they may be lenient about this at the prefecture, but I’ve never done something like that, would never risk something like that, and have no idea how it can be remedied. I would refer to Jean Taquet, who I spoke about in this article, to help you with this situation.
You may recall that you referred me to Jean previously and we, in fact, corresponded. I didn’t go to his website them, but I just subscribed to it now. Wow! A font of knowledge and experience! Thanks for the lead.
My pleasure Craig. You can read Jean’s archives for weeks!
The first question I have when I land in my rented apartment in any arrondissement is, “Où se trouve le Picard le plus proche?” Are you kidding me? After a day’s worth of flâneur-ing, there’s nothing better than to change into sweats, and heating up a hot Picard meal! This is from somebody who absolutely hates to cook.
That’s fine Hilda. To each his/her own. 😉
Hi Stephen,
If I’m able to find an employer in Paris to sponsor me (and I think I have), how is the process to obtain a long term visa different? Meaning, would having a job guaranteed expedite the process in any way? And what if I end up changing jobs once I’m here? Is that a big deal? Also, I’m living in NYC now and don’t have health insurance. Will I need to get covered before jumping through the hoops?
Jeremey
If you find an employer in Paris you’ll be obtaining a work visa, which is completely different from the different classes of long-term visa. You can’t “change jobs” here like you would in the United States. You’ll have to find someone else who would be willing to sponsor a non-EU citizen to work here, they will have to then help you obtain a work visa. If you quit or get fired, you lose all residency rights and have to leave France in a certain amount of time.
The health care question isn’t a concern for the French. They don’t care/control what you do in the United States. They only care what happens when you get to their country. You’ll need to show a policy should you go the long-term visa route, but as I said, if you’re looking to be employed here, you won’t be getting a long-term stay visa.
Hello,
Thank you for this article, it has been very helpful! You mentioned that with this type of visa (a long stay visitor visa), if you are going to leave and cross an ocean, it must be for three weeks or more. I have not read anything like this yet, so may I ask where you found this information?
Thank you so much!
Emma
You’re taking me too literally. I’m speaking about the trouble it takes to leave. Not personally worth it to me for less than three weeks. There is no verbiage in official government documents about crossing oceans. Or galaxies for that matter 😉
Oh haha. Thank goodness! I thought you meant if I was to return home it would have to be for three weeks or more. Just trying to make sure I know all the requirements for this type of visa! Thanks again!
Hi Stephen,
This blog is incredibly helpful. I live in Boston, and am looking to apply for the visa de long sejour in January 2018, and move to Bordeaux in February/March. I work for a company now, but when I go to France I will be freelancing (independently). Would my income from that be accepted for the financial requirement along with my savings 401K, etc?
Also, I will be moving in with a French national. Can I just provide their renter’s insurance, or does my name have to be included in the documents?
Thanks so much,
Katie
Katie – let’s do the second question first – if you are moving in with a French National (or a Dutch National, or anyone for that matter) you can simply obtain an “attestation de hébergement from him/her along with an EDF and insurance (renter’s or owner’s). If your name is on the lease, you will need a lease and renter’s insurance.
As for your first question, yes, the freelancing income will be countable towards your resources for your LTS
Thank you!
How would I “prove” that I will be receiving consistent income for a year from freelancing? I will apply when I have at least 1,500 per month for 12 month plus the freelance income which fluctuates.
Do you think this is sufficient financially security? Also, the cost of living in Bordeaux is less than Paris. Do they take that into consideration?
Thanks again,
Katie
Katie – perhaps a letter from your biggest client or bank statements showing consistent deposits? The cost of living in Bordeaux is not significantly different enough for them to adjust what they consider “self sufficient” in France to my knowledge. Several people have written me from the rural parts of France where they reside and they were asked to provide the same proof of level of income as I did when I was still LTS.
Thanks Stephen. This info is very helpful!
May I also ask, first of all if there is an age minimum for the long stay visitor? And second, since you seem to have a lot of experience with this type of visa, is it is allowed to provide a parent’s proof of income and bank statements for that specific requirement (as I know that there needs to be proof that one can support themselves without working while in France)? Not sure if you know the answer to these questions but I thought it couldn’t hurt to ask.
Emma – if you read other articles on this site, you’ll find a lot of questions answered, including about the parent’s proof of income and bank statements (they need to write a letter saying they will stake you) and no, there’s no minimum age beyond 18.
Hello!
I am wondering if I need to bring my original birth certificate? I have copies with me but my original is in the States with my parents!
A copy is fine, but more important is the need to have a certified French translation of that birth certificate.
Thank you for providing this process. I really appreciate that you shared your experience step by step so that at least I will be over prepared 😉
Happy to help Lisa – I just didn’t want anyone to go through what I went through when I started this process 🙂
Hi Stephen, I have a one year long stay visitor’s visa that expires in a few months. The prefecture in which I live handed me a form entitled DEMANDE DE TITRE DE SÉJOUR on which I understand I in the question for “Nature de la Demande” the boxes “le renouvellement” and “d’une carte de séjour temporaire” and ” 1 an” . I have 3 questions: 1) on the form, when they ask for my address, do I provide my address and phone number in my home country, or do I instead provide my address and phone number in France? 2) my prefecture does not seem to require health insurance certificate, or tax declaration or bank statements (they provided me with a Pour obtenir une carte de sejour temporaire”). Might they suddenly ask for it when I deliver my application and documents? 3) is it possible as a visitor to receive a multi year visa? Many thanks, Alina
Alina
I’ll answer your last question first – no it is not possible for a visitor to receive a multi-year visa.
Secondly, you are now here in France on a LTS, so ostensibly your address is here in France, where you are renewing, not some address in the US where you don’t live 🙂
Finally – whatever is on the demands from your prefecture, there is no way you can get a LTS renewal here in France without health insurance, bank statements/tax return, etc.
You’re trying to prove to them that you are actually continuing to live here in France, not using this as a shadow visa so you can travel around Europe.
Hi Stephen, Thanks for the quick and thoughtful response. I really do still have a home in the US, and really don’t travel around Europe at all, it’s either France or the US for me. I have bank statements for every month I’ve been here, but I won’t be 12 months at the time of renewal (since one renews prior to the expiration of 12 month Long Stay Visa), would that be a problem? Since I wasn’t in France for 183 days in 2016, I won’t have filed a declaration this month (May 2017), so would must I present my 1040? I do have French health insurance and renter’s insurance. If I am here for more than 183 days, I think I understand that when renewing my visa in 2018 that I must present my “DÉCLARATION DE RETENUE À LA SOURCE ANNÉE” for calendar year 2017 at that time, correct -this is an absolute must? Finally, I believe I have read in your forum that after 5 years of Declarations I should be eligible for French national health insurance (as French citizens have it), or do I have that wrong?
No, I don’t think you have to have 12 months, per se, you just need to have them dating from your last renewal. Sometimes you renew before, but sometimes you renew after (I wrote recently that I had to get a 2 month extension on a one year PL because of the scheduling issues here in Paris).
I’m a bit confused on your residence – the long term stay visa is designed around you spending more than half the year here, but you’re saying you spend less than half the year here. When you say you “really do have a home in the US” then you are really stretching the purposes of this visa. It’s for people who live in France, nearly full time as visitors, not for people who split their time between here and the US – the best situation for that is dual citizenship, since neither country cares what you do when you’re a citizen, but any country cares down to the milimeter what you’re doing when you’re a visitor.
I don’t know if they need to see your 1040 – it’s not really relevant to them as you’re not a fiscal French resident but you can bring it in the “just in case file.” I think the larger question is going to be “why did you get a 1 year visa when you aren’t even here half the year” when you tell them that you didn’t file your french taxes.
As far as your revenue – this can be proved out by your bank statements.
I’m not entirely sure what you mean by the five years of declarations – I don’t see a connection between being a visitor here and being permitted to enter the National health insurance system here. If you’re a visitor, you acquire “assurance etrangers,” as you’re a visitor. If you’re in the national health insurance system, you’ve changed your status such that you contribute into the system – it’s not “free,” and how would a visitor do that?
My caveat to anything I’ve said above – if Jean Taquet says anything on these matters that contradicts me – he is right 🙂
Thanks so, so much again Stephen. I still work, but in the US, and luckily I work freelance, so whether I spend more or less than 183 days per year in France will depend on work – I work onsite in the US when I do work. Hopefully 2017 will see me in France for more than 183 days- that was my intention. I suppose I was confused by some 5 year reference I saw somewhere, and I was thinking also that I would be obligated to pay social security taxes (although I could be wrong about that) once I am a fiscal French resident, so I thought mistakenly though those 2 things together might someday entitled me to participate in National Health Insurance. Not all my revenue can be proven by French bank statements. My financial assets reside and income flows into my US accounts, some of my French expenses are even paid from US accounts or US credit cards since my US bank is very good about wire fees and foreign transactions fees and what not – the last friendly bank in the US. That said, if less than 14.000 EUR does not flow into my French account in a given calendar year (more probably always will), but just in case), should I show they US bank statements, too?
No. You can be a fiscal French resident and pay no taxes. That’s what I did my first two years (I have a couple articles on the experience if you want to check it out – just look for “taxes” using the search bar.).
As regards proving your income from something other than French bank accounts, sure. You can show your assets from any country/bank, as long as it gets to a level they are comfortable with.
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Thanks, Stephen. Very enlightening!
Hi, I am wondering if anyone can help me with my situation. I would really appreciate any answer.
– I am a US citizen and I obtained my Visitor Long Stay French Visa in San Francisco. The visa’s validity is from Sep 27, 2017 to Sep 27, 2017.
– I entered Paris in December 2016.
– in Jan 2017, I obtained my VLS-VT (Visa Long Sejour-Valent-Titre de Sejour). It is affixed to my passport. It does not have any expiration date on it. On that day, they also gave me a leaflet with a website and a phone number where I could visit or call to obtain an appointment to renew my stay before my visa expires.
– The leaflet says to make the appointment 4 months before my visa expires, which would be aroun May 27, 2017.
– Here is the problem: When I visited the renewal appointment website on May 17, and entered my information, the first listed available appointment is in late October 2017, several weeks after my visa would expire.
– I am concerned if I take the appointment (say for October 24, 2017) and show up at their office on that date, they will tell me that I have violated the terms of my visa by staying in France between Sep 27 (when my visa expired) and Oct 24 (my appointment date). And in fact they would be correct.
What do I do? Do I need to go back to he US and get another visa? Is there any other way to get an appointment? I know I could also call to get an appointment, but what if the same happens when I call the listed number? Do I need to get a temporary permit (if there is such a thing)?
Thank you for any input!
Correction: My visa’s validity is from Sep 27, 2016 to Sep 27, 2017.
Ben
I covered this issue in a recent article:
https://theamericaninparis.com/2017/04/14/troubleshooting-recipisse-for-renewal/
Stephen, thank you for the link. I read it and I believe now I understand what needs to be done. Essentially, I just need to get a temporary extension to my visa (récépissé), which would keep me “legal” until the time of my renewal appointment.
Update:
So I did call and made the renewal appointment for October 24, which is about one month after my visa will expire. They told me to go to the office at 19-21 Rue Truffaut and obtain a récépissé, just as you had mentioned in your story.
They told me to obtain the récépissé not earlier than 2 weeks before my visa expires. So for instance, my visa expires on Sep 27, I am therefore planning to go their office on Sep 14, but not earlier (nor later).
They also told me to bring the following when applying for the récépissé:
1 photo,
Utility statements for past 3 months,
Passport,
The renewal convocation,
Plus a copy of each of the above.
I just hope that they won’t give me any hard times when I go there, such as why I didn’t request for a renewal appointment earlier.
Thanks again for the informative link!
Hello,
I have a question please : any thing special bout the “quittance de loyer” ? a simple paper signed is enough ?
Thanks
Seddik if you google it with the word “example” you will see lots of examples.
Hi,
Thanks, but I mean nothing special about I can use an exemple from the internet ? they accept a handwritten signed paper ?
Well if you use an example from the internet it’s not going to be a handwritten signed paper.
In general “handwritten signed paper” is not a formula for success with the prefecture. Have something typed up.
Bonjour Stephen !
My husband and I are here in France on 10-month student visas, which expire this July 14. We are finishing up the gathering of all the documentation we need to apply for renewal. I have a question I’ve not been able to find the answer to ANYWHERE! So I’m hoping you can help me.
1. We currently rent a flat here in City A
2. We attend school in City A – our last day is June 29
3. Our current student visas expire on July 14
4. We are moving to City B on July 6 and have leased a new flat there
5. My husband registered for school in City B to begin in September
Which prefecture do we go to next week to apply for renewal of our student visas? City A or City B? Both cities are walk-in only for students, with no appointments available.
Thank you so much for your help. Love your blog!
This is such helpful information. (and my gosh — what a lovely person you are to provide this information!) But I am still obsessing over the health insurance requirement. My husband and I have in-person appts at the Boston French Consulate in about 2 weeks, for our trip, with tickets already, leaving August 28th, returning end of May 2018. we are over 65, retired, in good health, have a place to stay with Parisian friends who have written a letter for us, a good amount of money in savings, regular deposits of social security, and we have worldwide emergency room care reimbursement coverage from our Medicare Advantage plan plus the required evacuation and repatriation coverage. But, I am worried we may need more health insurance? Does having money in the bank matter–or should we still get a policy somehow that will cover less-than-emergency problems? Will we be eligible after 3 months to apply for French medical insurance? Thank you so much. Susan
Susan – I must admit I am not familiar as to whether standard Medicare coverage is considered sufficient by the French authorities. I would wait until your appointment in Boston. If they tell you it is insufficient at the appointment, they will simply delay processing your application until you can obtain some, instead of outright rejecting you.
You can buy “assurance etrangers” while here in France, and you don’t need to wait any amount of time to do so. If you’re asking whether you can be part of the French National Health Insurance system, the answer is no. You can only be part of it if you are working (or have worked) in France legally. It is not available to those on an LTS visa.
Thank you! Every new bit of info helps. And again, thanks for this wonderful forum.
Hi, can you tell me the date of your article ? is it recent and still valid?
thanks!
Around this time last year.
I don’t have a practice of having “invalid” articles. People are telling me stories about their journey all the time and occasionally something may get updated but there are no “outdated” pieces here. The blog only started in 2013. 😉
It seems like it’d be necessary to submit some kind of application form for the visa renewal (almost like a cover page where I give my contact information and check the box for which kind of visa I’m renewing), but I don’t see anything about that online. Are my eyes tricking me about this?
Thank you for your very informative article! This demystification has taken a lot of the stress out of the preparation process.
I’m just seeing these comments about the need for all bank statements to be in French… given that my appointment to renew (1st time) is next week I am starting to panic! I do have a French bank account, but I just transfer petty amounts of cash there. My income is deposited directly into my US account. I was going to present statements from both accounts. I’m not really sure if there’s something I should (or can) do at this point aside from bring what I have and hope for the best… (after pouring myself an American sized glass of wine) Any advice?
Also, I have not gotten a tax form in France yet, which I find odd. If taxes are declared in May, and I arrived end of last August, I should have gotten something in the mail. Did you file them your first year? Or did you just present your US tax returns?
BTW, Stephen, I went with the translation service and insurance you recommended and it was a breeze! Thank you!
🙂
Melissa – glad to hear it! This is a renewal so they don’t care about your US account. Just bring your French bank statements, and keep the US statements in the backup folder. Be ready to explain (if they ask) where the deposits are from.
You are not going to get a tax form from the French. Immigration and Finance are not connected in that way. You need to file on your own. I can recommend someone if you write me. She’s handled my “non revenue” returns when I was a visitor and just helped me file my first personal return with French income (I hired a different firm to file my French business returns).
I never saw anywhere that you need french bank statements, all I have are my US bank statements. Is that going to be a problem? Should I open an account even though it won’t be enough time to get any statements from it ?
Tell us how it goes.
I think if you can at least prove that you have the account, it will help you. I had an appointment two weeks ago and they would not give me a visa without the account, even though I gave them an attestation that my application was in process at LCL. They gave me a récépissé and told me to come back in October when the account was approved.
Melissa – my husband and I had our renewal appointments about 7 weeks ago in Lyon and we brought copies of our US and our French bank accounts. They said they did not want anything about our US account and only took the copies of the French account, which is necessary for them to see you are settled in France.
Can anyone please straight up name a health insurance plan that includes disability coverage? I have found literally nothing, yet it is specifically listed as one of the health insurance “risks” that must be covered.
Hello,
I have a long term visitor stay visa in France starting next week. As a visitor I know you’re not eligible to work. I’ve had a skype call from a nannying agency in Paris saying I would need a work visa or a titre de sejour (residency card). Would I be eligible for this position if I acquire a residency card as a long term visitor stay?
Thanks
No. You cannot legally work in France for something like nannying on a visitor visa. You signed an attestation in applying for your visa in which you specifically said you would not.
Super helpful post, thank you! I just returned from the police station and it was dead — maybe a lucky byproduct of it being August in Paris? I got in quickly and nabbed a recipisse, it all took place as you described. Now for my question: my appointment for renewal isn’t until December 29! I was hoping to go back to the U.S. for the holidays, but that appointment date is killing my plans. Do I have any options for getting in sooner? Could I go to the office and camp out and see what happens, or is that crazy talk?
You can request a later renewal date and then get a new recipisse to match that date.
Thank you so much for this write up! So as long as you work for only non-French companies and clients, you can have the long stay visa and continue that work? I freelance in America for mostly US/UK clients, and I’m looking to live in France but continue that work.
Yes that’s fine.
Hello Stephen!
I just want to firstly say that you have a wonderful thing going on here – thank you. The sharing of experiences is often underestimated, especially concerning these types of topics which can seem overwhelming to those who have never gone through the steps. So again, thank you for taking the time to share with us.
I wanted to ask you a question for my parents regarding an initial long term stay visa application. We did a test run of a month or so in Normandy, and they loved it. They have decided to apply for the long term visa when they get back to the United States in a few weeks. Our question is regarding the translation of documents. Would you be able to tell us what exactly should be translated for the first application? Our main concern is bank statements. My parents’ statements are lengthy – very lengthy – and all in English. They plan to open the French bank account, but as this is the first application and not a renewal, the United States accounts will be used. I am hoping that these will not need to be translated, as it would be incredibly expensive. Can you shine some light on this topic for me?
Again, I thank you for your time and effort. We are all from the United States. I am currently a university student studying in England. I’m trying to doing everything that I can to help this transition for my parents. It’s all very exciting!
Thank you for your time and I look forward to your response.
Best regards,
– Armani Trotman
Armani
This is an application, not a renewal, and you are applying from the US, not France. Translation of your bank documents will not be necessary.
Hello Stephen,
Thank you for the quick reply! I am very happy to hear this, and have already told them. We will be regrouping later before they return to the United States. Hopefully that solves all the questions that they could have, but if there are more, I hope you don’t mind if I ask you more about your experience.
I know you aren’t running a business here in the comment section and are probably very busy, so I want to say thank you again for taking the time to respond.
All the best,
– Armani Trotman
Incroyable! As an American with an 8-5 job and two weeks of vacation that goes so quickly, and health insurance costs for my family that eat up a good chunk of my paycheck, I go a little weak in the knees contemplating this smorgasbord of benefits. OTOH, I understand the reality that the benefits so many American progressives see as “rights” have to be paid for by someone else. I really enjoyed this thoughtful and nuanced post about an issue I think about often.
I found your blog via the Art of Charm blog, and look forward to exploring more.
Brigette – it’s precisely because I’ve been doing a lot of work for AoC that my own little labor of love blog has had so few updates, but that should be changing soon as I’ve made some adjustments to do more “leisure” writing 🙂
I neglect my blog, too, mainly because of work (you know, the place I DON’T get 6 weeks of vacation and a 13th month of pay to cover taxes) and my 4 kids. You’re neglecting yours for a much cooler reason. AoC is a great site. Can’t believe the podcast has been around more than 10 years and I only discovered it this month. Ridiculous. Shows you how much great content is out there…which is a little discouraging as I contemplate strategies for being heard above the din.
Hey all!
A few questions about my French long-stay visa, but I’ll start with the most important one:
My Visa finishes the 20th of February. On the 21st of February, can I still be in Europe under a traditional 90 day tourist visa (I’m American). If so, do I need to get this stamped/leave the country/leave the EU entirely?
Christian
This is a mistake people make a lot; they think they can just “roll over” to the tourist visa. This is not legally possible and can result in a fine if you’re caught. Your visa ends on the 20th of February, which means that’s the end of your legal stay in the EU/Schengen. Easiest fix for this is to head to London (that leaves Schengen) and come back the next day and your entry stamp will start the new 90 day stay. You can’t just “hop” over to another visa the day your old visa ends. That’s not how visas work.
Thank you. I’ll probably have to apply to renew my visa anyway, since it seems I’ll be staying more than a few months after February. Thank you for this page, it’s a gem for people in this position.
Hey, Stephen, your story has inspired me to not give up just yet! Congratulations and thank you for posting this.
I do have a question regarding this Profession Liberale: when applying for a French visa from my country (South Africa) it seems there are no visa options to apply for to have your own business in France (i.e. Professional Liberale does not feature at all in the drop down list of visas to select from to apply for). This is a problem I’ve seen writers from other countries write about, too. So my question is, is it only possible to apply for this visa once in France already?
Karma – here’s the thing – there’s not even really info on how to apply for Prof Lib when here! The French government is simply not helpful on this front. Might I suggest calling your embassy and asking whether you can apply for it from SA?
I maintain the advice that I gave – if I had the savvy and know how I would have skipped my two years as a visitor and jumped straight in to Prof Lib. But I was clueless, so I couldn’t 😉
That’s it – you’ve hit the nail on the head! There is just NO info available on these various types of business visas (bar the blogs such as yours I’ve come across). I have spoken with my embassy who keep referring me to a 3rd party company called Capago who handle all Italian and French visas, however, Capago have never even heard of “Profession Liberale” or Carte de Commerçent… It seems useless to even try this route :/
I’m with you on that, I’d rather have the necessary visa before making the move back over – moving overseas ain’t for the faint-hearted, it’s emotionally (and financially) very taxing!
May I ask where, then, did you find the info you needed to obtain your visa?
P.S: I have emailed you about a consultaion.
When I was visiting Paris with my 30-something son ten years ago I mistakenly bought two carnets of youth tickets, rather than regular tickets, at a Metro vending machine. Of course we were apprehended by the RATP flying squad (I still didn’t understand the problem) and fined €100 on the spot. The inspector seemed apologetic, but we still had to pay. He gave us a pass that allowed us to ride the Metro for the rest of the evening. I use a Navigo Carte now.
Hello All,
I have a question to renew my French long-stay visa,
My visa is going to expire on 31th of October 2017, I have just finished my Ph.D. in April 2017, Now I want to renew my card but i don’t have any inscription right now for the whole year 2017/2018, I will be enrolled in next semester from January to April 2018 for French language course diploma. So my question is one-semester inscription is enough to renew the card and there will be an issue that I have one-semester inscription and has nothing to do in these months? I m really worried about the renewal of card and I have very less time in expiration of visa.
Hi there,
Question for you — I am considering moving to France temporarily on a long stay visitor visa (for six months to a year), while still doing some consulting work for an American company. Would you be able to explain what you know about French taxes in this situation?
Thank you!
Lauren
Hi Lauren – you fall under the circumstance I mentioned in this article. On a long-term stay visa of more than 6 months you are required to file a tax return even if that tax return indicates no income earned in France.
Hi, so does it mean I have to declare my salary from a remote employer outside france?
Not to France if you are on a visitor visa.
Thanks for replying even if this already a 2 year old thread. I am in the process of applying for a long stay visitor visa and has just been pacsed. I read somewhere it will help my dossier if I have some form of income coming from outside france like a remote job. Is it true or even legal? As long as it is not a french based firm
Rosel it doesn’t matter whether the income is from a job or from savings or from a trusth fund. When you say “help your dossier” all that matters is that you can prove to the French you have money to stay and not compete in their job market. Whether that’s from a remote job or otherwise is of no concern to the French.
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I always enjoy your articles, but this one I particularly enjoyed reading. Good information and just fun to read.
Thanks Diane!
Hi,
I have a few questions to ask you about your OFII revisit appointment. When you went to the prefecture to change your status to Profession Liberale, how did the Prefecture inform you that you will need to revisit OFII? Did they tell you verbally, were you given anything in writing or they gave you an OFII appointment letter?
If you were told verbally or given a letter that you need to revisit OFII, did you contact OFII to make an appointment or were you sent an appointment letter at home without you ever contacting OFII?
Finally, after you completed the OFII classes, did you have to give your OFII certificates to the Prefecture in order to renew your recipisse or CDS?
Tom you get a letter, and that letter has an appointment for you. I have the certificates of completion on file but OFII has not asked me for them. They are notified of the completion of my classes by my attendance that day. The certificates are just nice formalities.
Hello, you are a gem for hosting this space loaded with information. Thanks for this.
We are currently in France with a long-stay visa. It expires in Feb, we are leaving back to our home country (USA) to then return to France in May. My question is around renewal. Can I renew a visa with a date gap from the date of expire, or is this irrelevant? Second question: if we renew for another year (ie: beginning of May) but then must travel out of France to USA (say, a month) for other reasons, will this jeopardize the existing visa? Don’t know the extent of which we can travel out of France.
Thank much,
Mike
Mike
You can’t renew a visa with a date gap. It’s called a “renewal.” 🙂 What you’re proposing is a new visa. You’ll have to repeat the entire process in order to get a visa to return in May. My question is, why not just renew in February and don’t tell the French you are heading out of town for a couple months? Technically speaking the French want you to stay in France for the majority of the year when you are on a long-stay visa, but they have absolutely no way of knowing where you are if you are inside Schengen. You could be in Berlin for the whole year without them really knowing, for example. I’m not recommending this – I’m just pointing out you should renew in February and realize the French are not entitled to know your travel plans for the whole year. Or ever, really.
Yes, yes. I figured as much. I will proceed with the renewal for starting end of February then. Lord knows I have no desire to start at the beginning again, ouch. I assume since my passport is set to expire next May, I will need to get that sorted via Paris before I even think about renewing? Meanwhile, I am still awaiting a response from OFII for my initial appointment for the prized sticker.
No – the French don’t care about when your passport is going to expire, as long as it’s not within 30 days of your appointment. But sure, if you want to renew early, there’s nothing wrong with that, but given your plans, I would wait until you’re stateside, otherwise you’ll be constrained in your travel while it’s out of your possession here.
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Hi
I just wanted to know if you completed the 200 hours of French and how was your experience?
Thanks in advance
Renee
I tested out of the requirement so I didn’t have to.
Thanks for this site, it’s a lot of work (and repetition, and we need it!). My 1st year long stay visitor’s visa is about to expire (end November). I did go into the Prefecture (Perigueux) middle of August to get information, and she said return end of September only (no appointment necessary).
I arranged all the documents, and called the Prefecture to verify that I could just show up, and the person handling foreigners said to just come two weeks before my visa expires, that no appointment is necessary and I shouldn’t come too early. This worried me, and I called back two times since, always get this same man on the line and am always told the same thing (emphatically).
This differs from everything I am reading online. What are your thoughts?
Hi Sarah! Perigueux is also my prefecture, so I’m curious how it went for you. Do you have a French bank account? Did you have to provide proof of insurance? I went to the prefecture a few weeks ago with what I thought was a complete list of documents, and they turned me away without much additional information. Gave me a list, made some additions to it by hand, and chastised me for not speaking French (which I recognize is terrible). Would you mind detailing what you brought and whether it worked? Email is fine too if you’d prefer! Thanks, and I hope it went well for you!!
Congrats!
I do have a questions, you have to wait 5 years with the Profession Liberale visa before even trying to apply to the citizenship?
Marie – you need to be resident for 5 years, tax-paying for at least 3.
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Hi there,
I missed my appointment because I was in hospital and am trying to figure out how to book another one online. Unfortunately the working holiday visa I’m on has just recently expired. How do I book another appointment online so I can rectify the situation?
Thanks,
Iris
For renewal of carte de sejour, do they want birth certificate issued from within 3 months? (Or only the translated copy needs to be dated from within 3 months?)
Thanks!!
I’ve heard tell of this “three month” guideline before but I’ve used the same translation each time it was needed and it was more than a year old the last time I did.
Can I ask which prefecture you went to? Cuz I understand things can vary between the different prefectures.
Thanks!
I always go to the Paris prefecture. That’s the only one I can speak definitively on. But this idea of “retranslating” documents seems crazy to me, especially since they don’t seem to examine the official translation stamp anyway, but are concerned as to whether it’s a French version of the original document.
For French people they usually have to give birth certificate issued from within 3 months when birth certificate is needed, reason is the French birth certificate contains information about any marriages or divorces in their lifetime (and not just info about their birth, even though it’s called a “birth” certificate or acte de “naissance “), so they want a recent copy for any up to date information.
However for us foreigners our birth certificates will never change from time we’re born till the say we die, so I can’t understand why here they often ask for birth certificate issued from within 3 months (or sometimes it’s 6 months for foreigners) even for foreigners.
I’ve to renew my titre de sejour (or 1st carte de sejour) next year and I’m hoping I can just use the birth certificates I brought with me this year haha
I’ve sent off my application for carte vital 3 months ago, so far no news… 😓
Did you receive an “attestation ” (just a paper that you can use at the Drs / pharmacies) while waiting for the actual carte vitale ?
nope.
Thank you so much for sharing this.
I am st the precipice of this decision after a recent trip to Paris and other issues. I do have the ability to come for a graduate degree ( I’m a scientific researcher) so that may make immigration a little easier in this regard.
What I’m wondering is how long you wrestled wiyh this decision before finalizing it?
April – I’m not the right person to ask as I don’t usually ever “wrestle” with decisions. I’m an ENTJ. We make decisions all day 🙂
Hi!! I have a question. I understand that you need a letter of employment. Do they contact your place of employment after submission of this letter. I’m planning to leave my job for this trip and would like to know if there is a way to prove income. I’ll have savings for this trip with bank statement
April – you don’t need a letter of employment. You need proof of income. However, the French government do not have the resources to verify these things. If you give them a bank statement that says you have lots of money in the bank, they aren’t going to call your bank. If you provide them with a letter of employment, they aren’t going to call your company. They simply don’t have the manpower to do this. You’re attesting that everything you are saying is true and as long as the paperwork holds up, the paper pusher is happy 🙂
I see that the first year you do not pay taxe d’habitation, but only did when switching to a working visa. I just began my second year and after reporting my revenus, received a letter stating that I owe taxe d’habitation. It seems like just living here continuously means I have to pay this, even though I have a visitor visa. Does this mean that they made a mistake and I can contest it?
Melissa – I think it was more likely that my landlady paid my first year’s taxe d’habitation to avoid declaring my rental income. I wasn’t going to tell her I needed to pay it 🙂
I did pay it when I was a still a visitor – after I changed apartments to one from an absentee landlord to one that was owned by a lady who does everything by the letter of the French law.
You owe the taxe d’habitation unless you have worked out something with your landlady/landlord otherwise. I just got my love note from the Finance department today myself.
There’s nothing to contest since it’s not a mistake to receive this tax. There’s no exemption for being a foreign national.
Thanks for clearing that up. It was quite the surprise… even stranger, my roommate (another American who came here at the same time I did) hasn’t received anything regarding taxes. Lucky me 🙂
Hello Stephen,
Basically, for many reasons Auto-Entrepreneur is not a good choice if you’re sure to make more than 32 K€.
Choosing the right Legal Status is the first step (EI, EIRL, SA, SARL, Liberal). Then, depends on your goals, your adviser should help you to take the good decision to get the balance sheet (bilan comptable) you need.
I like your blog. It also helps me to improve my (bad) English.
Good luck with your citizenship applying. It will be great when You’ll be a “compatriote” 😉
Mi2
Thanks!
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Congratulations!! This is a very happy intermediate ending!! I too am astonished at all the innovations they’ve been implementing. What next? A humane treatment in all the administration offices?!
LOL!
Felicitations! Well-deserved. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
Thanks!
(Belated) felicitations and thanks for sharing your experience so that we all may learn! I’m on the same path as you, on my second year as visiteur and hoping to get my first CDS as profession liberale next year. I’m in the research phase, and this is invaluable. I had the pleasure of the SMS from the prefecture and electronic timbres when I last renewed – who knows what crazy innovations will be in place by the time I go for my (fingers crossed) four-year card! Thanks again 🙂
Bonne chance!
So happy for you!
Thank you 😉
Has anyone been able to get a carte vitale with a long-term visitor visa? My understanding is that the law says we’re eligible but we’ve been hitting administrative roadblocks.
What kind of longterm visitor visa?
I’ve received my CV (4 months after the application was sent off, and just 5 months after my arrival in France, I think it’s considered fast here already…)
Did you check the ameli website for the documents required for application for CV for people with your situation (the kind of longterm visa you’re on)?
Visiteur de longue sejour. No right to work in France, but we’ve been here since 2014
I thought for this kind of visa you have to get your own health insurance and provide proof of this when you apply for the visa?
Check out PUMA, it’s something kind of new here but supposed to mean healthcare coverage for everyone, you just need to have stayed here legally for more than 3 months to apply, but then I’m not sure if it applies to the kind of longterm visitor visa you’re on though.
I believe that I need to rectify a couple of things as I answer your question.
YOU
Has anyone been able to get a carte vitale with a long-term visitor visa? My understanding is that the law says we’re eligible but we’ve been hitting administrative roadblocks.
ME
If I answered your question literally I would have to answer NO, it is impossible. I believe that you are referring to an immigration status called “VISITEUR” and not the visa. Therefore once you hold the OFII stamp which the initial immigration status, then YES, you are eligible to sign onto the public health coverage scheme, ASSURANCE MALADIE, and you get it through your local CPAM.
There are 2 conditions the CPAM is very strict with:
1 – prove that you live here and you are indeed an immigrant and not an extended tourist.
2 – the birth certificate issue.
So if you could be more specific regarding what kind of issues are you faced with, I could help.
Also for about a year (most of 2016) CPAM had a very strict interpretation of what is an immigrant, residing in France, and holding a carte de séjour ‘visiteur’ was not a sufficient immigration status. Now this ruling has been reversed.
Do you have a reference to the ruling that was reversed? It sounds relevant to our situation.
My wife has been here since 2014. We’ve been renting a house here for 2 years. She has been in France this entire time except for two week-long trips to London. She has a carte de séjour visiteur. We’ve been told by OFII and the CPAM English language helpline (in the latter case at least a dozen times) that we are eligible with the CDS visiteur, and that the only requirement is that we have been residing legally in France for 91 days. We were told that the type visa was irrelevant (I’m a software engineer and can work remotely, so I work for a US company, get paid in US dollars from which US federal and state taxes are deducted, and what is left gets deposited in a US bank. Thus the CDS visiteur). When I went to OFII for my titre de séjour, they actually handed me the CPAM application forms. We made an application to the préfecture (in our case in Vannes), had all the documents translated (quittance, utility bills, Orange bills, birth certificates, proof of income, etc), submitted them, and waited. When we checked on the status after two months, we were told that they couldn’t issue it to a CDSV. We went to the office of our local deputé, and his assistant called CPAM in Vannes, and from what I was able to understand, he was told that they literally couldn’t enter the application into the computer because CDSV wasn’t an option in the software. Also that French law is very complicated, and that this was a decree rather than a law, and that we should probably take this to a jurist. We’ve never actually been denied a carte vitale, either, it’s just been in limbo.
Charles,
If you want me to help you with this situation, you must much more precise describing the situation. I believe that there are a lot of errors made, and I tried to identify some of them but I am not sure I got all of them.
PUMa & Carte de séjour -VISITEUR-
This is quoting the PUMa regulation. There is a lot more to this especially when you add the carte de séjour mention visiteur in it. Keep in mind one thing, the foreigner MUST prove that payment of premiums towards the health coverage.
CPAM & carte de séjour -visiteur-
CPAM reversed indeed a ruling that was in forced during the year 2016. “VISITEUR” was excluded of the then CMU/PUMa coverage. Today it goes through without problem on that end.
Préfecture & PUMa & CPAM software does not discriminate between the cartes de séjour
This makes absolute no sense at all. I am guessing of a different reason. As stated above the applicant to the carte de séjour must prove paying for the health coverage and this is not mentioned in the description. I assume that there is also an error here, it must be CPAM and not prefecture here where the file was submitted.
This is not true anymore and also the software is not set up this way, it does not discriminate between the cartes de séjour that I know off.
The 3 most common problems
I believe that I can help as I have done quite often. These people are not using the right wording to explain the situation.
These are the issues that currently exist and for some of them there is just a need to push with a higher hierarchy.
1 – old regulation the “visiteur” is refused, then appeal the decision or resubmit
2 – insufficient proof of a lawful stay in France – the carte de séjour and the French income tax is not enough, sometime 3 proof per month for 6 months is barely enough to prove the physical stay in France while holding the CDS visiteur.
3 – mysterious calculation by Orléans URSSAF regarding the PUMa premium such that Americans with retirement payments from the USA do not count and therefore do not pay premiums which excludes them from holding a CDS visiteur.
Hello Stephan,
Quick question. I need to get a recipisse because I am in the same boat as you describe above. What do I else would I need to take (in addition to the passport) to this 19-21 Rue Truffaut address?
Thank you!
Sam
Your prefecture appointment sheet.
Hello Stephen,
Thank you for your informative blog. I have some questions specific to my situation and hope that you may have the answers for me, who’s in the process of applying for a Long term visa as a non-EU national married to a French citizen. We’re moving to France after several years abroad and this is my first time going to stay in France beyond the 90-day tourist visa period.
May I know what are the vaccinations that are required? I have a vaccination card, a yellow booklet issued to me when I lived in Germany for a year in 2012, but it only contained the vaccinations I did within that year. Before that and since then, I’ve had more vaccinations that I collected on multiple different cards, having lived in different places. I was thinking I could compile a comprehensive list by myself and show that, but it won’t be “official” so I’m guessing it won’t work… Would bringing my list to a French GP doctor and asking him to “officialize” it do (assuming he/she would)?
Regarding the X-ray, do you know if there is a way to be exempted from it? i.e. If I show medical proof like a blood test result or a previous vaccination record that I don’t have whichever maladies they are scanning for? I am currently preggers and that is the last thing I want to do, even if plenty of people say “it’s alright”. (My doctor did say “better not” :p )
I am currently in France (already went to the prefecture and got thrown out >_<) and in a few weeks, I will be going back to my home country to cobble together all the necessary documents and get all the admin stuff sorted out, so if you've any tips on anything I can do now in France it'll help save me another round-trip ticket O_O. In any case, your blog is really a great help. Thanks in advance and cheers!
You will get an immigration visa, which I believe lasts for 3 months so you can start the prefecture procedure to obtain the carte de séjour. In the middle of this complete immigration procedure there is the physical done by OFII.
In French the mandatory vaccinations
le vaccin anti-diphtérique,
le vaccin anti-tétanique,
le vaccin anti-poliomyélitique,
I am guessing here but if you lived in Germany, you must have them. So even though I hear your concerns, I do not share them in this case as you should not need any new ones and furthermore, OFII does not demand them as such. So you can go through the procedure without having to prove them on the spot.
I cannot answer about being pregnant. I dealt with a few cases where the people had such major medical conditions that the physical routine had to be changed for them according to what they were able to handle.
So if I draw the same comparison, it should not be a problem regarding your condition.
Here we are dealing with a strategy issue.
(1)The prefecture is going to give you the official legal answer, which is going back to your country to ask for a visa at the French consulate because it is a big deal for them that non EU citizens enter legally in France when they wish to immigration.
(2) I tell you that the article 313-11-4º allows you to ask for a carte de séjour WITHOUT THE VISA. This means that you accept to be an undocumented alien asking for a special favour as defined in the law. You would lose all rights to stay in France legally if you stop living together within 3 years.
So you have a choice and I believe that (2) sounds better than (1). I have attached the copy of the law to prove my case.
Thank you for your blog posts! They are very helpful in figuring out this process. My question concerns the long stay visa. Do you know if the Long Stay Visa permits multiple exits/entries out of France and the Schengen zone? My family and I want to live for a year in France but I would need to commute back to the United States usually once but possibly twice a month during that time for a total of 10-14 days away while my family would stay in France. Also, though we would live in France, I would probably sometimes fly out of Geneva because of the close proximity of the airport there. Would flying out of Switzerland back to the US cause any problems with the visa?
Thanks!
Once you have the visa you can come and go as you please. Though, I don’t know why you would choose to fly out of Geneva – you have to take a 3 hour train to get there and CH is notorious for its expensive flights in and out.
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Stephen, I have never seen such a clear explanation of all the acronyms. Super job.
Thanks also for your other posts. Very informative!
thanks!
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I enjoyed reading this.
We aim to please!
Saw this Bloomberg article in August and thought it might be relevant.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-27/china-s-bike-wars-escalate-as-didi-throws-weight-behind-ofo
Thanks for this!
My long term visa expires on the 20th April 2018 however my contractual obligations with a school in Lyon ends in May. What can I do to extend my stay?
Renew your visa for one month, two months, whatever.
I’m a US citizen and will apply for a long term visitor visa, I’m retired (67). I’m concerned about the financial means required. My late husband died of cancer a few years ago and I had to use our retirement IRA to pay for hospital costs and treatments. It wiped out our IRA. I have managed to save about $70,000 in savings, also have my social security which is $2300 per month. I will co-own a home in France with my sister who will also retire there. We’ll love together. Will my savings and income be enough for the visas? I’ll be applying through San Francisco Consulate.
Rose – with $70,000 in savings, you far exceed the means test required. Worry not. 🙂
Stephen, thank you. For a year I haven’t applied for fear I would be rejected.
Haha, I meant in the previous message my sister and I will live together…
I’ll update to let you know how it goes.
We decided to buy in the north east, close to a prefecture, hopefully in the same city.
Thank you,
Rose
Stephen, I have another question. Today I went to my tax preparer and because I have no earned income and only Social Security, the Federal government will not accept my tax return. Evidently with only Social Security, there’s no way to e-file or send a paper tax return in. The San Francisco Consulate requires a recent tax return and perhaps more. I sent an email to them and asked what would be acceptable, I received the usual form letter from them with no advice regarding my predicament. Any suggestions?
Thank you,
Rose
Rose – dealing with the IRS is way outside my competence, and that of the blog 🙂
Stephen, I’ll post what I find out as to how the San Francisco Consulate responds and if they will accept previous returns without the most recent.
Thank you,
Rose
It’ll be interesting to hear! Thanks for keeping us posted.
Stephen, after sending an email to the San Francisco Consulate, I received the standard reply a day ago.
This morning I had a personal reply from the consulate.
My contact wrote that my social security statement of earnings will be fine.
I also found out after digging and calling, one can submit a tax return like mine, via..snail mail.
Thank you for a wonderful blog, it’s not often one can ask questions and receive information (correct and through experience).
I’ll keep everyone updated.
Best regards,
Rose
Thanks for keeping us updated!
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Hi Stephen,
Thanks for your great blog site! Its so helpful.
I have a few questions –
1) Can you send me your health insurance agent’s info?
2) Where can I get my USA birth certificate translated into French?
3) Q – I plan to move to Paris for a two year (part time masters program beginning in Setember 12, 2018). I don’t want to wait that long to move to Paris so I will go to Paris on a tourist visa May, June and part of July. Then, I plan to fly back to the USA for my consulate meeting in LA (to get my student visa), wait for it to be processed and then when approved, fly back to Paris as soon as I can. Does this sound like a reasonable plan? I just want to be sure I don’t have to be out of Paris for a certain amount of time in between the tourist visa expires + student visa begins? I have heard in Austria you have to make sure you are out of the country for at least 3 months so want to be sure this isnt the case in France. Thanks so much. I hope to hear back soon. Regards, Annie
Hi Annie – I’ve emailed you regarding questions 1 and 2. As for 3 – your plan sounds solid. Just make sure you have your appointment made and that you give yourself enough leeway to get an appointment in LA and your student visa before flying back. If you are back in LA in July and don’t come back to Paris until September I think that’s plenty of time for you to get your visa approved.
Dear Stephen
My daughter is in Lyon working as a English Teacher Assistant her contract ends 30th April 2018, however her long Stay visa ends on the 20th April. I contacted the Embassy in St Lucia because we are citizens of Trinidad and St Lucia is responsible for this region and they said that she has to leave the Schengen area, go to a Non Schengen region and return in order to be legal. I contacted the Police Prefecture using your Link and they referred me to The Police Prefecture in Lyon. So I wrote them about a month ago and I am still awaiting there response. Do you have any suggestions, my daughter is thinking of going to Ireland but I still feel it can be extended while in Lyon.
Neal there’s plenty of time to wait for a reply. If she really has to leave Schengen she can go to England, not Ireland.
Hi Stehen!
Congrats on getting through this process..
I am considering going this route…but would like to discuss this more with someone who has gone through it. I have an arts background, but am not interested in the talent visa. I would like to remain free to do various things like broadening the scope of my new podcast and product dev, etc.
I read you have templates. Might I email you direct to get a sense which you think might be best for an artist working to develop a location indie business? I wasn’t finding the email button here.
Merci beaucoup!
sent you an email on this!
Just wanted to share my experience with something a few people have asked about during this thread, which is staying on for 3 months extra after a long-stay visa expires.
I can confirm that I had no issues getting back into France: I flew to London the day my visa expired, and flew back the very next day. No issues at all coming back into France.
I did, however, have a minor issue arriving in London, which I thought was very strange. They instantly identified that I was on the final day of my French visa, and I was honest and said the purpose of my trip to London was just to get out and get back in to France. The lady spoke to her supervisor, then came back and was just trying her best to be the most miserable person possible.
She told me (is this even legal) that if I tried to come back into the UK in the next 6 months I would NOT be allowed in, but that I’d be let in this time “as a favor.” It had something to do with “If you would do this to France, you could do it in my country, as well,” as if I was doing something illegal. When I very politely tried to explain what I was doing was legal, and not even a loophole but expressly allowed, she cut me off for doubting her because “I live here, I know the law,” (never mind that we were talking about France, not the UK).
Anyway, they let me in, and I’m not sure they have any reason not to let anyone else in, but perhaps it’s something to keep an eye on for anyone looking to do the same.
Thanks for the heads up.
Hi Stephen-
Thanks for your help in advance!
I am a dancer moving from NYC to Paris, and will be sponsored by a french dance company. I plan to spend 3 months, beginning next month, on the tourist visa to practice my french etc., then back to the US for 2 months, then will return to France and begin working with the company.
Is it possible to begin applying for the working visa while in France during the 3 month stay? (I believe you mentioned above that you must apply for the long stay visitor visa in your home country, but wonder if applying for work visa is different).
Does the timing mentioned above generally seem ok? Or would I need 3 months before re-entry, even if on a different visa?
Thank you!
Sarah
The three month waiting period you are referring to only applies to those utilizing the paperless “tourist visa.” If you’re applying for anything beyond that, they don’t care whether you returned from France the morning of your appointment in the US. 😉
Hope that helps.
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Hello, I got a 6 month visa instead of a 12 month. Do I still need to present my forms to the OFII and have the medical exam/validate the visa long sejour? Or only if staying longer than 6 months?
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It’s great to read your experiences in Paris. I’ve been spending time in Paris for more than 30 years- sometimes for years at a time. I think it will be part of my life forever.
You’ve gone way deeper than I though, maybe because I’ve never committed as you have – work and family are a constant pull back to the states so permanently relocating is still a fantasy – maybe when I retire!
Glad you’re enjoying the reads, Brian!
Hi Stephen,
it is great site, so thanks,
minimum period of stay(presence) in france for long stay visitor visa for one year ? in other word how long clients can stay outside of france in order there is no problem for renewal process?is there any minimum stay requirements(presence physically)?
thanks
Hi Mohammed
You might have figured out that the site is moderated, so in future, you don’t need to leave the same comment multiple times 🙂
The answer to your question is simple: the minimum period is not one year, but six months. As far as physical presence requirements, there is no way for them to really enforce that, but you are expected to be there for the majority of the time, since you are applying for such a visa.
Hi all,
I have a question regarding my situation and I will appreciate if you give me heads up.
I came to France with a six month internship visa. While I am still waiting for the Ofii appointment to get the sticker on my visa, next month my visa expires. But my research is not finished yet and I would like to extend my contract. How to proceed to extend my visa?? Is it possible to extend it?
Thanks,
Harken
Harken
There is no OFII visit for a 6-month visa. You should probably apply for a renewal and obtain a recipisse in the meantime.
Thank you for the reply Stephan. Just to clear up my visa type was D and when I got the visa I also received a form to fill up and send to OFII. Are you saying that I should not wait for an appointment?
Also do you know where should I apply for the renewal and how long it takes to process? What is recipisse?
Sorry I am new to French system,
Thanks
You’ll find answers to these questions in the blog. Search for the words “recipisse” and “renewal”
A few questions for the kind helpers on this thread:
I was on a 1-year long-stay visitor’s visa living with my girlfriend while she did a masters (I work remotely). As she was close to finishing her masters, and we didn’t plan on staying, I let my visa expire.
Now it seems she might get a good job offer in France, and we may stay. So, I’ll plan on applying for the same visa as before in the United States.
Will this be an issue? I know it would have been preferable to renew and not start the process over, but it’s too late for that. Is simply applying for the same visa again a problem legally in any way?
Secondly, is anyone aware of how long before my desired arrival date in France I can apply for a long-stay visa? I recall reading 90 days, but I can’t seem to find that source again.
Christian
No problem to apply for a new visa. There may be a section asking if you have applied/received a visa in the past and this time obviously your answer will be different.
The 90 days you read about is still correct.
So Christian you have overstayed your visa. Wouldn’t the French Embassy look at that as an Infraction on your part. My daughter had a similar situation and on the the her visa expired I made her leave the Schengen region and re-enter,this was done upon the advice of the embassy for our region.
Neal has a point. At the point the French don’t know you have overstayed your visa, but popping over to London and coming back under a tourist visa would solve this problem and get you 90 more days. But then you need to get out, especially if you’re trying to stay on the good side of the immigration authorities.
Neal/Steven,
I’ve already done what both of you suggested, left the Schengen Zone and come back in to stay for 90 more days legally(As I initially assumed we’d only be staying 2-3 months after the expiration of my visa, this seemed much more simple than renewing for an entire year). I didn’t over-stay on my 1-year visitor’s visa, and I definitely don’t plan on overstaying my 90 day tourist visa.
Under those circumstances all should be well, correct?
Yes.
Hey all,
In the process of applying for a visa again from the US (I understand this page is generally about renewing, but it’s the best resource I’ve found on the web for visa advice).
The listed requirements are slightly different than last time I applied. One of the things listed is the following:
“Permit issued by the order on which the applicant depends”
I can’t make sense of what this means. I’m self-employed, working remotely, and last time I had to have a signed and notarized letter swearing not to seek employment in France (along with bank statements showing proof of income/savings).
Is this essentially asking for the same thing with different language?
Also, offhand, can anyone recommend an insurance company/policy that would satisfy the following requirements: minimum coverage 30,000 euros, no deductible or co-pay, medical repatriation.
thanks,
Christian Parrett
Hi Christian,
Not sure about the cryptic comment (makes no sense to me either), but I have a travel policy with Allianz that exceeds those specs and only cost me a whopping $42/year. I got the visa last year with this policy, so it should work. Best I’ve found, hands down. I believe they call it “One Trip Premier”. Good luck!
Rachel – that sounds like travel insurance that has a health benefit, not health insurance, and one of my clients who successfully got a a visa with such a policy (it’s the pricepoint that raised my suspicions) did not pass muster for renewal, when he found out it was just travel insurance, not health insurance. He got insurance and got his renewal.
Ah, that could very well be. I didn’t try to renew on it. Good to know!
Christian
May just be a bad translation. Update us if it turns out to be some secret passphrase we don’t know! 🙂
Thank you for this post Jean.
Oh Airbnb is a love/hate relationship for sure. But oh how I value it for when I visit Paris and elsewhere as coming from NYC and a shared apt. in the Bronx, I LOVE having an entire apt. to myself for as long as I can.
I am glad to have the “in-scoop” as I plan my next trip. I recently bought a one-way ticket to Paris and I am now considering how long I would want to make that travel for (a weekend, a week, a month, three months, a visa situation…). So glad I found your blog.
Merci Beaucoup.
Katherine – thanks for the kind words, but this was written by me (Stephen), not my friend Jean. 🙂
😊 I totally realized this once I joined your Facebook group. ((Oops!))
Super appreciate all the great info Stephen. Thank you! So glad I found your blog!
Hi again Stephen, I am renewing my long stay visa for the third time (I got the stamp in passport, then the pink card). Do I need to do the birth certificate translation again? They should have that on file right? I sent a note tonight to the people who did the translation last year to get another copy, but I thought of you and thought I would ask. I also had to get copies of my divorce papers (for my legal name here to be my maiden name again) – do you think they want these again too? Everything else is in order I think. Appreciate your thoughts.
Barbara
Once you have an official translation, it is good indefinitely, so you don’t need to do a new translation. Bring it along (those people should have given you a digital copy which you can reprint at your leisure). Bring everything you brought last time, and it should go as well as it did before 🙂 Keep us posted.
Thanks a lot. I had contacted my translators and they have a copy they can email me. But they have to re-certify it and the cost is 35Euro (cost for translation the first time was 50Euro). I didn’t want to pay it if you didn’t think I need it, but just sent them a note to send it. You are really a valuable resource and we appreciate you.
Barbara – I’ve used my original translation, which was done in 2014, multiple times. There’s no date on my translation, so I think the “recertification” is a “welfare for translators” trick, but it’s up to you. The 35 euros might be worth the peace of mind and not having to revisit for a new appointment, then again, I don’t like spending unnecessary money, and given that your info hasn’t changed, the idea of “recertifying” a translation they already did is ludicrous to me, and I would refuse on principle. You’ve been duly warned 🙂
Great info – I was like WHAT?? It’s an admin fee for sending it to me i bet. But I can’t find a copy of my translation in my files so will bite the bullet on this one!
Also, do you have a link to the application form? I see the general Schengen form – which i remember filling out for my original VISA application back in SF, but don’t remember doing this last year when I applied for the second time (got my pink card).
And lastly, I took the stamps in when I picked up my card, but was reading somewhere they like you to bring for the application. I will get them anyway and be prepared!
Thanks, Barbara
Oh, and do I need to download another application form??
Yes. It’s another renewal, so just do everything you did last year.
Hi,
I live in Grenoble, France and my titre de sejour/work visa is about to expire at the end of this month. I couldn’t get an appointment at the prefecture to renew until after it expires, but the lady at pre-accueil told me c’est pas grave and I can renew my visa. I am americaine and am wondering if I were to see the prefecture at this date after my visa expires, will I be able to stay in France or be forced to go back home to my city in the US? What do you think?
Samantha
This article addresses your specific situation: https://theamericaninparis.com/2017/04/14/troubleshooting-recipisse-for-renewal/
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Thanks for this great post. I have a question about your non-French source of income. I also have a small non-French source of income from working online and am also on the long-stay visitor visa.
When I applied for my visa, I provided a letter from my employer explaining that I will continue to work remotely from home, wherever that is: and I was given the visa – all they wanted to know was that I would not take a job on French soil with a French company.
I’ve read some blogs on the internet which say that working at all while on a visitor visa, even if it is online being paid back home (and not working at all in France) is not allowed and now I am stressed!
I see you mentioned your online work – and that they liked to see your source of income too.
I guess I’m just seeking reassurance that working online now and then and being paid back home, and not in France, is allowed whilst on the long stay visitor visa.
Also – did you declare your tax while on this visa, and declare your non french income?
Thanks !
Martine
I don’t know about those other blogs – but they are clueless. The French government has no power to stop you from making income worldwide. Their chief income is concerned with your making income in France. Truth be told, most legal systems have not caught up with the reality that you may be a Brazilian, tutoring someone in China in English, while living in Canada. Is the income Brazilian, because that’s where your tutoring company is, or Chinese, because your customer is “receiving the service” there, or Canadian, because that’s where you’re living? The tax authorities of the world do not have the time to audit each and every person and his/her activities, and more importantly, you can legally construe it as you please. In this particular case, your employer has already stated that you will continue to work remotely and you earned a visa on that very basis! So, ignore the ignorant blogs.
What you do need to do is declare taxes if you have been here more than 183 days in the previous fiscal year. For example, if you arrived in December 2016, you would not need to file taxes in the 2017 year, as you only spent 30 some days in France the previous year and could not be a fiscal resident. However, if you are here more than 183 days you have to file a tax return here, in which you will declare your non-French income. I wrote about it here:
https://theamericaninparis.com/2015/11/23/taxes-and-transferwise/
and
https://theamericaninparis.com/2016/05/16/taxes-again/
If you need the name of an accountant to help you prepare those taxes (you may not owe anything, but you’ll still need to pay to file them) email me and I’ll connect you.
Wow, you are so helpful, and I am so grateful. THANK YOU!!!!!!
I would really love the name of a tax accountant that speaks English. Thank you again!
I was just in a panic about the exact same issue and then found your article and was relieved and grateful for the information! So, I just wanted to say a big thank you!!! 🙂
Hi Stephen, your posts are so helpful, I don’t think I would have managed to get my long-stay visitor visa renewed without them. In relation to the professionale libre visa, I see that you say you have have to earn over a certain income over the next five years. Is this income from French companies? Also, are you able to tell me how much you are required to earn to meet the visa requirements? I can’t find this information anywhere. Many thanks, Lisa
Lisa
The income is from wherever you want. You will have a new French company which will be a repository for your revenues. When you’re obtaining the visa, you’re simply making a projection to them of what you think you will earn, which will need to be a living wage for yourself (at least 24k in euros per year). Obviously you may have a slow start and may not hit that number in the first year, but that’s a question for your renewal, not for obtaining the visa. You’re still thinking in terms of the long-term stay visa, in which you need to prove that you can live without working. This visa precisely is about working, so it’s more about proving how you will earn. No guarantees.
Thanks so much for all that information! That is really helpful 🙂
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Hey, I’m applying from Israel for a 1 year visa in France.
I’m getting all the documentation ready, and in no place does it mention involving a notary.
In fact in their website it says:
Attention : all documents written in languages other than French or English must be translated into French.
So from what I understand, if my bank statements, my health insurance, my “promise not to work blah blah” are in english, I won’t need a notary.
What do you say?
Thanks!
Ore – in no place in this article does the word “notary” appear 🙂
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paris !! 🙂
I have a strange question!
I’m in Paris on a 6-month visitor visa (no work allowed) that expires December 1 and I’d like to renew for another six months.
I was offered 3 months of freelance work in the US and since money is money, and I’m not allowed to work in France, I’d like to consider it.
However, 3 months would mean I’m in the States after the December 1 expiration of my visa.
Would taking this freelance job affect my ability to reenter France on another visa? Would I need to apply for a brand new visa in the US? Or would I have to return to Paris for the prefecture meeting before December 1 to renew?
Steve – not exactly strange but slightly complicated.
It’s not relevant where you are on December 1. The question is do you want a renewal of your visa (way easier) or do you want to restart the process? I would go for a renewal and the time to your appointment might actually be three months! You’ll need to get a recipisse to cover you during that time and/or if it’s not quite 3 months, schedule a time to get back to Paris to do a renewal.
Otherwise, let it lapse, and you’ll have to start the process all over again. Read here for more context: https://theamericaninparis.com/2017/04/14/troubleshooting-recipisse-for-renewal/
Great story and review, l am a mature female here in France pour appende la langue aussi.
I have been learning for 2 years in Australia and whilst the immersion course is intense, it is great fun.
But l would say, make sure you are staying in accommodation that suit you. Many of us at the school were not specific enough when asking the school to find us homestay accommodation. I would definitely share an apartment or share like you have indicated, many languages, many experiences and ages, fantastic opportunity
Hi Stephen,
Very informative blog! Thank you so much!
But I was quite confused. Or maybe each Prefecture is different? I went to the Prefecture of Doubs asking about the list of documents required for renewal but it doesn’t include giving 12 months of bank statement. Not sure if I should bring mine along? And there’re another things like declaration to non-polygamy?
And just wondering if it is really necessary to translate the birth certificate extract?
Denise
I do think each prefecture is different – I have zero experience with Doubs so I wouldn’t know whether they are as strict regarding bank statements – but I am only listing what worked for me, not what “may work” for others. As I say – it’s always better to have too much documentation for the French than not enough.
I can tell you, unequivocally, though, that it is really necessary to translate the birth certificate. For purposes of immigration, the French authorities ***cannot read*** English.
This is such a helpful resource, thank you. I wonder if you might tell me whether the immigration authorities will hold my passport for any duration of time during my renewal? Poor planning on my part, I will be flying to Barcelona the day after my appointment, for several days.
Thank you,
Sabrina
Sabrina – on a renewal the passport simply serves as ID. Unless you are getting a sticker in a passport you never need to leave it. You only had to do that the first time.
Well all it’s been five years of open comments on this post, and I’ve since added a free facebook group to handle many of the questions which regularly appear in these comments. I’ll direct you there for further comments/questions.
Well all it’s over three years of open comments on this post, and I’ve since added a free facebook group to handle many of the questions which regularly appear in these comments. I’ll direct you there for further comments/questions.
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Thanks for a clear, comprehansive desciption of what is needed to rent an apartment in Paris. When I watch the rental process unfolding on shows like House Hunters International, none of these requirements are ever mentioned. This is (the beginning of) a good education for would-be expats.
Glad you liked it Craig! When are you due back in Paris next?
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Hi Stephen,
Thanks for another helpful post. A few questions:
1. As you need your Carte de Sejour, for recent arrivals in France, it’s best to wait until after the appointment with OFII, correct?
2. I understand starting a French bank account and showing activity is an important part of being granted a renewal, but I’ll still be allowed to show funds from US accounts to demonstrate my financial situation, correct? For example, investment/retirement accounts in the US, savings accounts that I don’t want to dissolve back in the US, etc.
3. For long-stay visitor visa holders, working remotely, does opening a bank account in France change any tax situation/liability?
Thanks!
Christian
1 I don’t see any reason to wait until after the OFII visit. Your original visa sticker is just as valid – the OFII sticker is just a confirmation of the visa but the bank won’t care.
2 Yes. You’re obliged to show that you’re adapting to life in France, not dissolving all your ties to other countries.
3 This is a question for your accountant but all foreign bank accounts holding over $10k USD equivalent must be reported to the US government. The French expect you to have money in a French account but as long as it’s not income earned in France your LTS visa won’t be in jeopardy.
Stephen
Great articles, you provide so much info and at times-humor, all very much appreciated.
Im a little new here, and still devouring your posts.
Few Questions:
1. Translation- does this need to be a recognized French business? How much is it typically per page?
2. Recent US Tax Filings? Is this just the W2 or the 1040 forms? (Or both)
Thank you in advance!
Hi Joe
Translation fees vary wildly depending on the type of document so there is no “typical fee” per page. Just expect to pay more than you might expect. For some context, my birth certificate cost 72 euros.
W2 forms are for the US government and don’t mean anything to the French. Your tax return is what they would want.
Hello, do the French Banks have a internal system to check our US Tax Returns.
The likelihood that any foreign government has some kind of direct access to the IRS system is remote, indeed.
More importantly, why would they care? A bank is not a taxing authority.
It’s all starting to make sense. I was wondering why your (wonderfully concise and well-written) blog effortlessly drops into my cognitive understanding while others on the same subject(s) make my head spin. You are an ENTJ! I’m an INTJ. I admit that your “E” energy makes the “I” in me want to lay down and take a restorative, contemplative nap, but you also provide the long-sought-after logical framework and, yes, action steps, my NTJ requires to realize my dream of spending as much time as possible in France — the sooner the better. Thank you for chronicling your path and sharing your wisdom and expertise!
Thanks for the kind words Mari!
Still enjoying your blog, Stephen. TIFF can also mean the Tromso International Film Festival in Norway. Headed up by my cousin (by marriage), Martha Otte. Above the arctic circle and, I believe, the northernmost international film festival in the world. https://tiff.no/en Have I been? Sadly, no. One day…
Very helpfull
Hi there,
Thanks for all the info on your blog…super helpful.
I’m here on a visa Long Sejour Temporaire that’s marked « dispense temporaire de carte de séjour ». My understanding of this is that I’m not required to register with OFII which also means that I’m not able to renew the visa here in France.
Do you know if this is the case?
Many thanks
Yes
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Hi Stephen, always good to read your posts. Following your advice, my daughter has opted for moving to the UK instead of France, for the english education it offers with resultant wider global options. Thank you again for meeting with us in 2016, she made the move in 2017. God bless, always good to hear from you.
Thanks Michelle! Glad the advice was helpful 🙂
I have a bit of a unique situation. I would love some advice asap !! I had a student visa, and during that, I was living in Paris. Now that my studies are over, I’ve moved to Enghien-Les-Bains (just 15 minutes north from gare du nord) – and I’m trying to take an APS. I’ve faced a few issues, one being that my recipisse is expiring in 4 days on the 31st. The second is that, now that I’m living in Enghien, and my visa is from Paris, there’s issues with what prefecture I have to go to in order to complete the process.
Now, again, my recipisse expires in 4 days and I have a rdv at the prefecture in Sarcelles (95) not Paris on the 4th of february. BUT my recipisse will be expired by then. My question is – do you have an idea of where I should go to get this recipisse renewed ? Can I go to the 17th tomorrow morning with my stuff and they’ll do it even though my rdv for my APS is not in paris ?
Dear Stephen thank you for your blog, as it gives us lots of information. I just moved to Paris to complete MS study for a year, maybe will stay for another one after i get a job, but today when I went to open bank account at Societe Generale with my school friends who fluently speak french, the minute they saw my US passport they refused to open any bank account for me and told me to look for another brunch.
With your experience and where you branch with a bank, i dont speak french and asking school friends to come with me will be annoying, would you be able to recommend me branch that you use that you know someone speaks english there? it would be highly appreciated
Diana
It’s not clear to me that someone with a student visa is going to be able to get a bank account. You will need something with a more permanent status, not a more understanding bank 🙂
I easily opened an account at LCL for my 6 months at Kedge University in Marseille. They even gave me a discount card for many businesses!
Great!
Hey Stephen,
Great post as always. I’ve been curious – if you’re on a profesional liberale visa can you enrol in university? I assume there is no restriction.
Yes. Usually the student visa gives someone legal residence so they can be here long enough to go to school, but if you already have legal residence, you’re free to enroll and don’t need to bother about that visa.
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My son Joseph received his Illinois drivers license 18 months ago.
Since he has double nationality French/USA, he applied to exchange his Illinois permit for a French permis de conduire.
We received a temporary drivers license from Nantes but they have now said we have to prove that he has lived in the US for one year. I understand that proof of residence is not needed if he is bi-national. Can you confirm this information?
Thank you for your response,
m
I tried to move to Paris permanently in summer of 2018, but I couldn’t find housing and returned to the US after 30 days. I was able to open a bank account with CIC with someone’s help. I currently have about 9 euros in this account and they charge over 7 euros monthly. I would like to eventually return to France again to live long term in the future. Do you recommend I add more money to this account to keep it active? Or close it? The person who helped said not to close it no matter what since it’s so difficult to get a bank account there. Thanks for your reply.
Definitely don’t close it.
Okay, thanks for the advice. I should probably add some euros to the account soon then. Appreciate your quick response, Stephen.
This is incorrect. The exchange is only possible if the applicant proves he/she has lived in the state that issued the license. My daughter is also bi-national and stayed with her grand mother in DE, and went through the exact procedure and had her license exchanged in Rennes and we provided the proof that she lived there for more than 6 months which made her a fiscal and therefore a legal resident of that state.
What papers did you guys use to prove residency in the US ?
Each state has different requirements.
My daughter took kind of gap year, and went to stay with her grand mother in DE. If I remember correctly she was there for about 9 months. She had nothing in her name in terms of proving that she was living in that address. What is called in French “preuve de domicile récent”. So it was quite complicated for the DMV to accept her proof of living there with the grand-mother’s affidavit of lodging and support and her utility bills and so on. Finally she got her American license.
When she went back to Rennes, she had the proof that she had lived in DE for all that time as she had it from her DMV visit and she was renting her own studio with everything in her name including the tuitions of Sup de Co. Rennes. That part was extremely easy.
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I’m French, working in Paris and who have a master degree in human ressources, so I’m very aware about french working laws.
I agree with 80% of this article, but. I said I’m french so of course there is a but. A french worker gets paid less american worker. For exemple, the state takes 25% of my salary each month + 10% of my annual salary each year. (It can goes to 30% depending on your job but the mininum is 22%)
I’m 26, with a master degree and earn around 3000€ each month. But the state take 750€.
Each year, the state also takes 10% of the 27 000 I really earned (2250×12 months), so 2700.
In one year, state took me 750×12 = 9000, + 2700, so 11700. I earn 24300 while I’m working for 36000. And this is more than 70% of french workers.
also, there is 20% taxes on goods. You buy car, you have to pay 20% more to the state, same for a house, a phone, a bed, a new sofa… And around 5% on food.
So yes, we have many rights as a workers but we pay for it… and it costs a lot. Think about it.
Okay, but who cares if Americans get paid more if the health care in America costs 2000% more than what the French pay? Do you know how much a single man has to pay for health insurance per month? At least $500 USD. Where does the “extra pay” go now? What about transportation? In 98% of locations in the US it is impossible to live without a car – that means car payment, petrol, insurance, registration, upkeep. You can live in Paris and survive with the metro or bicycle or even just your legs. Now add the mandatory US car costs to your total. That’s just two things that French people take for granted (health care and transportation) that are extremely expensive in America. Whatever imaginary “extra money” you think the Americans make go directly to these costs, among many other stupid things.
When you’ve lived and worked outside of France you’ll understand just how good the French have it. 🙂 For now I’ll chalk up your reply to the usual “Yes, but” attitude of the French 🙂
Paris is just one state in france! Most of the other states requires a car to get by. What’s your point? Newyork has a train system too.
Firstly Paris isn’t a state, it’s a city, many of which have mass transit options.
Secondly, I don’t know what your point is, but I think the point of my article is clear 😉
Same goes for France, 99% of France requires a vehicle as well. And gas is very expensive.
Well considering the population centers of Lille, Lyon, Paris, Nantes, Marseilles, etc. all have public transportation, I think you mean 99% of geographic France. But population-wise, that’s clearly not the case. Most of the population of France don’t need a car to survive and I think as high as 1/3 of the French population don’t even possess a driver’s license.
Yes you are 100% true as my husband is doing job here from 2 years and we have same situation. Much of the salary is deducted in taxes.
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Hi Stephen! Great post. I’m curious as to why you did not mention the « passeport talent » visa? It seems like a nice medium between PL and Visitor, but I could be totally wrong as there is not much info online. Do you have any good references to read more about the « passeport talent » visa when applying as an American?
-Julia
Julia – I don’t mention that visa because it’s nonrenewable and it’s wonky. You need to put together a compelling dossier and only two of the people I’ve ever worked with actually were interested in and obtained it. It’s a “I’m here in France for three years and then I’m leaving” visa and since this blog has always been concerned with making a life in France, I consider it in the au pair and student categories: temporary situations.
Hey Stephen! Thanks for the quick response. Interesting, the wording is really tricky then because the Service-Public website says: “Elle est valable 4 ans maximum et renouvelable.”
-Julia
Hello Stephen,
I have had several of your blog entries saved for more than a year because I found them when researching our France move and knew they would be very helpful when the time came for things like renewal, etc. When I looked at this entry today (because I, too, have a renewal appointment AFTER my LSV expires), I noticed your photo on the side . . . and realized that you are also the Hitchcock meetup guru! I owe you DOUBLE thanks! Seems that I should officially subscribe. Thanks for all you do! Merci!
My pleasure. Great to meet you the other day!
Bonjour Stephen!
This is great information, thank you. I do have one clarification question. You say that you are not stuck in the Visitors visa and you can change at any time. As a 15 year business owner here in the US, i’m planning on starting a new business in France with my partner who is a French Citizen. We are not quite ready to form the company yet but will be in about 6- 8 months. I’m planning on relocating in May/June of this year. Would you recommend a Visitors Visa first and then transition to the PL?
Merci!
As I said Annette, you cannot transition from Visitor to PL until after your first renewal, so you’ll need to be under visitor status for 2 full years before changing over if you decide to go that route.
Thanks Stephen!
I was unclear as to the time frame of the first renewal.
Hello, I am a US citizen with a pied a terre in Paris. The BNPPARIBAS just told me they were closing my account. No explanation. I went to other banks. Some says inmediately no when I say I am a US citizen , others ask for a visa in my passport. I explained that we do not need a visa to enter the Schengen area, they just said it was a requirement. I need then bank account to pay EDF, taxes, insurances, etc. What to do? I don’t have a carte de sejour.
Nothing you can do. FATCA is an American thing. It has made life for Americans abroad really challenging. Since you don’t have legal residence here (no CDS) BNP is not going to spend compliance money on you, it seems. Sorry about that. As I referenced, get a transferwise borderless account. It’s free and you can still do European transactions when necessary.
Hello,
I am American living in Montpellier, France since 2006. I have never had an issue with banks and was able to buy a house and refinance my mortgage. I have a full time job and good/stable income.
End of last year, I sold my house as I wanted to build a new one. Also, this January, my car broke down. Now I need a new mortgage and a small loan to buy a car. The issue is that banks and insurance institutions are refusing my application. The reason: You are AMERICAN.
The first time I heard about this, I though it to be a joke or some banks exceptions, but almost 6 months on, I still cannot get these credit approved.
Some banks ( like Credit Agricole or Foncier) said that they would give me a mortgage if I can get outside insurance. To my surprise, only GENERALI agreed to insure me so I have no a way of comparing offers. Even with this insurance, I still don’t have a loan from these banks.
I have contacted the USA embassy in Paris, but I was told this to be a private matter and that they cannot force a French businesses to serve people.
I am stuck.
The French citizen are being served OK in USA, why are the USA citizen being discriminated against here in France !
Do you have or know any case like this one ? Do you have any advice ?
Thank you
Tina
Tina they are discriminating because of our idiotic law called FATCA which makes them spend millions in compliance. The market is responding: dump American clients rather than comply with onerous reporting burdens. Only way out is to get another citizenship and renounce. Then you will no longer be a « US person » and will be free to do more things.
Is this recent dumping of American clients making it significantly more difficult to start a bank account as an American? Or is showing your Carte de Sejour and making it clear you understand your legal right to an account still enough in most cases?
Christian these comments are « recent » but the dumping has been going on for years. Having a CDS will make it easier but it is by no means easy to get an account as it was pre FATCA
Hello Stephen..
I found out about FATCA yesterday from a blog.
I then checked the IRS website and was horrified. We really do not have anywhere to go.
We just have to seat and wait as it is not that easy to get a French citizenship which takes over 2 years and even harder to divorce the US.
To Christian Parret….
Yes it is almost impossible to open a new account if you are a US person in France now.
Sorry…just keep going around you may get luck at one bank.
Tina
That solution of French citizenship only works if you then renounce your US citizenship. It doesn’t matter how many passports you have, as long as one of them is blue with a bald eagle gripping arrows, you will be considered a « US person » by FATCA and the banks worldwide.
Not completely true. If you are a French citizen residing in France with a US citizenship, Société Générale will open a bank account for you. They will not open a bank account for you if you are a non resident French citizen with a US citizenship. By the way, any french citizen can file a complaint with the Banque de France to force a bank to open a bank account. BRED and BRED espace has no problem with US citizens has they do a lot of business with expats around the world. They will not give you any issue. I know that for a fact since I opened an account with them and I am a dual national living in the US.
Jean – you’re a French citizen. This is not the case for the majority of the readers of this blog who do not have such abilities to file complaints in the way you describe. It’s also not a situation I covered in this article 🙂
Stephen, it just shows that you do not have to renounce citizenship if you have both the US citizenship and the French citizenship. I would encourage US citizens who have the possibility to become French citizens to do so.
Jean – I agree – and I have documented a path to become a French citizen via this blog. I think perhaps you are referring to this quote: “Tina they are discriminating because of our idiotic law called FATCA which makes them spend millions in compliance. The market is responding: dump American clients rather than comply with onerous reporting burdens. Only way out is to get another citizenship and renounce. Then you will no longer be a « US person » and will be free to do more things.” Let me modify it to correspond to your position: “Another way is to get a French citizenship and not renounce.” 🙂
My response would be that if someone is eligible to apply for French citizenship, they probably aren’t struggling to open a bank account here…
Hello
I am a US citizen planning to apply for a long stay visa in France. My question is, if I am able to open a French bank account, do I have to report it to the irs if the account has less than $10,000 k in it.
You must report all foreign bank accounts to the US, regardless of the amount inside. You’re thinking of the US deposit rule in banks that auto reports 10k and up. Doesn’t apply here.
BRED espace will open accounts for US Citizens:
https://www.bredespace.com/
Thanks for this Jean – anyone who ends up opening an account here can let us know how the service is.
BRED Espace worked for me! American citizen here, who was rejected at every other French bank… Thank you so much Jean and Stephen!
Merci beaucoup Jean for that information, my wife and i are considering a move to France for retirement and I have been researching this problematical issue for US citizens trying to obtain a local French bank.
Hello Stephen and Jean,
Thanks for the interesting info regarding banks and dual citizenship.
I’m a Franco-Amercan, French and US tax compliant citizen, residing in France.
My long time bank has recently asked me to declare if I am a US citizen. I hesitate to tell them anything at all for fear of loosing the account. I wonder if being a US tax compliant citizen plays a role in the bank’s decision to keep me or “not bother” and kick me out. No way to know for sure until I ask them…and expose myself to the risk of loosing the account. Or I can put my head in the sand. Or I can lie and not admit US citizenship.
What would you do in my situation ?
Thanks
I would declare instead of lying but lean on your status as a French citizen to make sure you can retain your account as you have a right to. Don’t fear the worst in your case.
Thanks Stephen for your take on the situation, I appreciate it and I tend to agree.
I might add that the notion lying has a different value in France and in the US. As I remember it, the Clinton presidency was almost taken down, not for some terrible political act, but because he “lied” about his behaviour. And US tax and immigration authorities have no patience for lies at all. Lying in an absolute sin in the US. Lying in France however is not as severe. It’s not good behaviour but there’s more room for a little lying here and there. What’s more, it would mean lying to a French bank and not an administration, about a distant issue for them. And as for the US tax administration, I’m all clear with them anyways.
So as I ponder about my choices, I do so with both French and American cultures in mind, makes the choices a bit more complicated…
As you say, this FACTA business is really a drag.
Thanks for your posts.
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I am living in St Barth, a French Collectivity, and have been a resident for 3 years after marrying my husband (French). I had a medical condition that precluded me from driving so I did not get my driver’s license in the 1 year mandatory period. Also, my US driver’s license didn’t transfer because it is from Rhode Island and there is no agreement for my little home state.
So I guess I’m asking if I have to start all over again and take driving lessons?
Yes Jessica, unfortunately that’s the case.
Well that’s frustrating, but thank you for your help 🙂
I added the RIB pdf while applying for the UGC card, but can you tell me how am I paying. Since it never did ask for any debit card information or anything. After I put the RIB information, it just accepted and nothing more. Anyone could have my RIB information correct? How do I pay for the card?
Rakesh
Yes it’s true anyone could have your RIB but only you can really use it. It’s tied to your name and account and any charges that come through for it can be disputed by you if it’s not correct. You can’t just charge someone’s RIB. Just like you can’t just charge someone’s credit card. You have to have an entity that collects the payment. In this case UGC charges you using your RIB, not your debit card.
Thanks so much for all the super helpful info! The one thing I can’t seem to find (not yet at least) is what to do if your prefecture appointment is AFTER your visa expires AND you have to travel back to US before the expiration date. (My return flight to France is booked for about a week after it expires) Will French airport customs officials let me back into France with an expired visa and some kind of confirmation of prefecture appointment date? My lawyer doesn’t think this will be an issue but I keep reading it’s a risk to even travel with recipisse and expired visa. Would love your thoughts. Thanks!
Your lawyer is correct. They aren’t going to check your passport anyway, but if they do, the recipisse plus the expired visa will be fine.
Thanks! The recipisse is what you get at the end of the prefecture appointment confirming your carte de séjour is being processed, correct? What about before the prefecture appointment – do they give you anything besides an email or doc stating when the appointment is scheduled? Just want to make sure I’ve got the terminology correct .. thanks again!
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I have been resident in France for many years. And a client of the société générale for many years. Recently they sent me a form asking me to indicate if I am a US Person (of course, they had never asked this before as I’ve been with them for so long). I replied honestly that I have US citizenship. Then I got a call stating that they cannot maintain *savings* accounts for US persons. Within an hour they had simply closed my accounts!! I’m SHOCKED. I don’t have any investment accounts or anything like that, just basic savings accounts. I never expected this from a major bank like the Société générale. Has this happened to anyone else? Where do I go now??
Hi Stephen, I will be moving to France in a year with my husband (who’s a French citizen), and I was wondering if those that are married to French citizens are having problems too. We’re currently living in Korea, and here we haven’t had any problems with the FATCA, I don’t know the reason, but I suspect that it’s because Korea is scared to not comply with the US, maybe because of North Korea, and they don’t want the US presence to leave, I don’t know, it’s just a thought. But I’ll have to send money to the States before moving to France because we’re closing our Korean accounts when we leave. Does anyone know of the best bank in France that is ok with wire transfers with US banks? My husband has his French accounts with Caisse d’Epargne, and we already know they won’t deal with me, in fact he can’t really even transfer his money here in Korea to that account, they won’t deal with that either. I will tell him about about Transferwise because he’s been trying to figure how to get his money here to France. I’ve already realised that maybe everything like mortgage and stuff will need to be in my husband’s name until I can get French citizenship. Are things really this bad? I never really heard about the FATCA until I started looking into what we need to do for the move, because there is no presence of it here in Korea, at least at the basic level, maybe there’s a problem when it comes to loans and stuff (thought they do require a Korean citizen to co-sign anyways for that stuff).
For the moment Transferwise will be your best bet until you and your husband can visit banks here. Because he’s a citizen you definitely have more opportunities in banking.
I disagree that being married to a French citizen will ensure more plentiful banking options. If a bank doesn’t want to do business with Americans (or indeed anyone who can be considered a US taxpayer, such as green card holders), they simply won’t, regardless of the spouse’s nationality.
Dave you misunderstand. It’s not a question of the marriage solely, but the visas which she can easily apply for, visas which then make the argument that yes, you are entitled to a bank account. I’m a US citizen, married to no one, with two French bank accounts. I got them because of my visas.
We looked into Transfer wise, and while they will transfer from France to Korea, they don’t have the option to transfer from Korea to France. We looked at a lot of other online transfer sites, and we couldn’t find one that would do Korea to France, just France to Korea. The only think we saw that might work is Western Union. My bank here in Korea I can do Western Union transfers online. And Banque Postale has Western Union. It’s not ideal that it’s for cash pickup and my bank here in Korea only let’s me do $3000 USD at a time. 🙁
I’ll have a family/spouse visa when we go. This has nothing to do with banking, but I will say that France made it really tough for us to get married, tons of paperwork, because they do their immigration vetting before getting married, and it cost me a lot of money to get all the paperwork done (I don’t recommend getting married to a French person outside of France or even outside of your home country, we did it all here in Korea, hahaha) and it took almost 7 months from start to finish. But the embassy here did say that after this getting the visa is super easy, like a week or 2 week process. I doubt the banks will care about how I got into France, just that I file US taxes, but I’m hoping that particular visa and our livre de famille will help a bit.
Thank you for this — and Oh, my goodness, Adrian was a good friend of my father and step-mother — she assisted them with their annual stays in Paris — and went on to become a dear friend. My father has since deceased and my step-mother certainly misses Paris. I’ve only had the pleasure of meeting Adrian once, but I’m delighted to know that she continues to do well. I’ll definitely check out her latest newsletter. As for me, I just returned from a glorious week in Brittany… dreaming of the day I will be able to spend extensive time in France… 🙂
Thanks for sharing Mari!
…as a matter of fact, I now recall photos and mentions of my Dad in early editions of ParlerParis. Doux souvenirs!
Hello Stephen,
Thanks for this list. I already read three of these regularly and I will start with the others. If you are a fan of the development of Paris from around 1850 to the 1980’s or so, you might want to look at the FaceBook page of John d’Orbigny Immobilier. Every Sunday he (and I think this is a fictitious name) publishes numerous photos and commentary on a historical event, a neighborhood, a social issue, etc., in Paris during that time. The photos are fascinating, the commentary quite clever.
I could not agree more. The John d’Orbigny page is fascinating, entertaining, and well-researched. (I keep hoping to spy photos of my Parisian relatives…!)
Thanks Craig!
Many thanks for your kind words and for introducing me to some interesting new sites I hadn’t seen before.
I was wondering if you could assist me with the following situation. I went to the prefecture today for my appointment for my carte de sejour as my visa expires at the end of October. However, my husband (French) only has a passport and not carte identity and they require that. So the process will take longer to obtain an ID and thereafter, my new rdv might be after the expiration of my current visa. According to the prefecture, this is legal. Please advice
How about FUSAC’s newsletter?
I’ll look into it Lucy. What do you like about it?
Hi Stephen,
Looks like I am doing the same thing you did 4+ years ago, searching websides for details about various visas etc. And here I see your block. Really great blog!!!
Did you consider apply for Talent Passport (New Enterprise)? What’s the difference vs Profession Liberale Visa?
Kind regards,
Georgy
No, because it’s not renewable and doesn’t put you on the citizenship path. Thanks for the compliments. I hope you find the articles helpful. 😉
Hi Stephen,
The Passport Talent VLS TS is now renewable. How does it compare currently to the Profession Liberale visa?
Is the Profession Liberale visa still an option? I’ve heard talks about it no longer being valid and I haven’t been able to source check well.
Thank you,
Hannah
I haven’t heard anything about PL being removed/ended. You are right, Passeport Talent is now renewable, but I don’t know too much about it, unfortunately.
Was a blast, man! Definitely exhausting to record six back to back courses, but a blast nonetheless 😉
Hi Stephen et al, those are interesting subtexts from those with dual citizenship! We’re in our sixth year here, happily banked in a heavily expat (though not many US persons) part of Ile-de-France, but trying to buy an appart — and it’s gone sideways, to say the least. BNP turned us down, then Société Générale, BRED Banque Pop is making discouraging sounds, all citing expenses related to SEC / FATCA, the hardship of managing a US person (W9 or not). And we’re on long-term work visas (cartes bleue), plus only asking for a loan on about 50% of the apartment.
This was utterly unexpected as we’d waltzed into Sweden just after those laws were signed (2010), financed a car, bought an apartment, and started a family – quite a shock!
Meanwhile I’ll accelerate our naturalization applications a bit, it’s encouraging that some banks may ignore the FATCA hassles for dual-nats.
I’m confused, your title says “American in Paris” yet you start off by saying you were born in Singapore. I’m guessing you became an American citizen? In this context I would presume your story was about “hey I’m this American who grew up with no culture or specific nationality to relate to, I’m just a mutt with unknown or vague ideas of what I am and now I’m in this foreign country” type of American. I feel as a zero-to-first generation immigrant you have somewhat of a culture from your native country and therefore you can relate to the French. most true Americans have no clue and are very ignorant about things like that. I am both. my fathers side has been in America since 1631, yes over 400 yrs. his side has no culture or traditions and its pretty sad. on my mothers side, she is from Germany, I grew up visiting there every year and in America we would still talk/practice some German traditions and speak both languages. so when I meet people from other countries I connect more with them. I look forward to hearing more bout your experiences. as I was reading I found an error on your page:
the first treaty ever signed by the US government was with the France of Louis XVI << this should say King Louis XVI of France. Leaving out King is very disrespectful and also you cannot be a France of Louis to begin with. LOL.
Janet – my birthplace was Singapore and I lived there until I was 9 years old. I have always had US citizenship from birth, by virtue of an American father. Given that I lived for 25 years in America, going through most of my schooling, building and selling businesses and property, I can say unequivocally that I am an American. I renounced Singaporean citizenship many years ago. They do not tolerate dual nationalities.
I am not a mutt with no idea of where he comes from. On my father’s side I have traced parts of our family line back to the Isle of Wight in the 1500s. On my mother’s side we only go back a few generations as Chinese do not keep records in the way that Europeans, vivified by Christianity’s rhythms of births, marriages, and deaths, did and does. I make my home in France, a place I have chosen for myself, in between the two worlds of my birth – Singapore, my birthplace and home to much of my ethnically Chinese side, and the US, place of my upbringing and maturity, and home to my mother and sisters.
I’ll make the correction to the remark about the King. I’m a royalist so any omission referring to His Majesty is accidental, not intentional, on my part.
Can I be paid by Chèque without a signed contract?
No – but no one in France gets paid by cheque.
I have been to the préfecture in the Seine et Marne (Melun)4 times already and received 4 recipisses. I feel as if they’re throwing my file in the trash immediately after I leave.(sigh) I don’t understand this as I am a Chevalier of the French government, a fiscal resident of France, a home- owner; I’ve paid taxes here for over 30 years, I am a famous opera singer, Grammy winner, etc…but they seem to not care. Suggestions?
Hi Stephen –
Super helpful blog. Thanks for doing this. I can vouch for a lot of what you’re saying as I currently have the Profession Liberale visa and just got approved for the Carte de Sejour. I’ve been in France for a year now and I’m also newly PACS’d with my partner. I came across info regarding the Carte de Sejour “Vie Privéee et Familiale”. Do you have any experience with transferring onto this Carte de Sejour (challenges and/or differences with the Profession Liberale one?).
Thanks in advance for any info!
Geraldine – I’m sorry I just saw that I never replied to this post. Did you ever figure this out?
Depending on where you live, the strike will affect you differently,
Living at the Musee Galleria, I have had no transport on Saturday for one year. I am a woman, who does not ride trottinettes, and in fact hate them, they have made Paris completely unsafe from arrogant people and tourists who ride them illegally on the side walk. Often with two people on one. Also illegal. There is no enforcement of these laws and it is not safe to walk . People drink and also ride them. You young people think these chinese inventions are great, while in reality they are ruining city life for residents. Here and many cities. They are HATED. By residents.
The strikes have made life a pain in the derrière for everyday people who need to travel to and from work with no metro walking long distances by foot to work and back in cold and rain. Its No picnic. When the buses run there are 100 people crammed in, and people are no longer polite. Its not an option for me.
Yes, I agree that a reform is needed. But, its not easy with the strike, and I might add with the strikes for the second Christmas in a row, mom and pop shops are decimated with loss of buisness. Paris’ fabric is completely changed and not for the better.
Sevigne
Respectfully, you are speaking for yourself as a Paris resident. There are many other residents, like myself, who do not HATE the trottinettes but rather LOVE them and many of the riders now ride on the street. Often they ride on the sidewalk when they run into cobbled streets.
If you want to blame anyone for the strikes, blame the CGT. They are the ones who led it. Thankfully, they lost and have started to realize how out of touch they are with people who live here.
I meant to say felicitations in quotes but it did not go through!
I have been in France for 4 years. I didn’t know that I had a time limit on exchanging my license. Is it possible for the government to still exchange my license even after the 1 year period? Would it be worth it to try in any case? I could use your help. Thank you.
DaNeil
If you’ve lived in France for four years, then you’ll know they won’t make an exception for you.
Please I have a question. I only succeeded in getting an appointment at the prefecture for the first request of a titre de sejours after the expiration date of my visa.what can I do ? (visa expires on the 20th of March, appointment on the 23rd of March)
Norena since it’s only 3 days you should be okay, but if you want to be sure, follow my directions in the article and get a recipisse.
hi stephen,
wow, i am really impressed how you got your visa. my french is really really bad so i am not up to doing that yet.
my question is i want to buy an apartment and so need to transfer a big amount of money(it’s my money) to buy it, do you know if i need to pay french taxes on it, like VAT or something? i’ve been trying to search on the net and have found nothing about it. I thought i saw something where i don’t have to be taxed as long as the i am buyiing it for myself. thanks a lot.
Julie
You don’t need to pay VAT to transfer money here but you also don’t need to transfer money to buy the house. That is to say, if you want to close the transaction you can wire the money from a foreign account. You don’t have to have a French bank account to do a French real estate transaction.
Are you fluent in French now? How long did it take before you were comfortable enough to speak French (more/less fluently)? I really want to relocate and seek citizenship but my French is utterly pitiful even though I’ve taken several years of French language classes in the USA. Sad.
Jade
I am comfortable and conversational in French now, but true fluency in any language takes 15-20 years. Fluency takes more than just knowing how to translate. It’s about cultural references and history that you normally have an entire childhood to assimilate. The key is patience. As for your challenges in the US, it’s always going to be harder to speak in a non immersive environment. Spend a week here and you’ll watch your progress skyrocket.
I have been on a cdj visiteur for the past 2 years and I am moving into my 3rd year . I can get a 10 year card after 5 years and apply for citizenship immediately afterwards right?
Not at all Ariya. You need 5 years of paying taxes as one of the conditions of applying for citizenship. Visitor status is not a citizenship path. It’s just a resident path. You can get a ten year card, sure, but you can’t apply for citizenship without paying taxes here, which means you need to change your visa status to one where you pay taxes.
I own an apartment and apart from tax fonciere and d’habitation . And I am planning on declaring my taxes in France from this year onwards. So, despite the fact that I can’t work here , I am planning on visiting a fiscalist who can help me declare my tax forms so I have proof of that. I am residing in Nice . As you know in Nice , the conditions are not as strict as Paris. They accept 3 years of tax payment as well . By paying taxes, you are referring to income tax only right?The declaration of tax forms of the last 3 years prior to citizenship application wouldn’t suffice?
Thanks for your blog in advance
You are required to file taxes regardless of whether you plan to apply for citizenship. I repeat, visitor status is not a path to citizenship, otherwise I would not have gone through the trouble to change visas. Visitor status is one of the easiest to get and maintain.
So you mean even by possessing a permanent residence and filling out the CID forms , they will reject your file because your title was labelled as “ visiteur”? Is there any other way of paying taxes whilst possessing this status? Subletting your apartment or …? Because both My mother and my sister and I possess this status and I don’t think it would be plausible to change the status of the three of us together, right? There has to be a way around this ! I don’t know how I can propose a business plan to persuade the prefecture to grant us profession liberale .
Ariya – I will say this for the third time: Visitor status is not a path to citizenship.
So just to be clear , after getting your resident card and filling out CIR forms and filing for citizenship, they will reject your file based on not having had an income in France and therefore no income taxes to be paid right?
There are so many other things in the application! Including a language and history test.
I meant having all of the requirements except for the one I mentioned.
I repeat for the final time: visitor status is not a path to citizenship.
Stephen, I understand that there is an exception here if you enter France as an already retired person on a CDS temporaire (visitor) and then renew the CDS at the Prefect in one year installments for 4 additional years, the person can then qualify for the 10-year residency and is also eligible for naturalization path to French citizenship.
As a US citizen with retirement income sourced exclusively from the US (pension, SS, 401s) you file for and pay US income taxes but under the US-France tax treaty you are generally exempt from paying French income tax to avoid double-taxation on your US-based retirement income. However, you still need to fill out the necessary French tax paperwork to declare your US-based retirement income and claim the exemption.
Here is some more information on the issue of US retirees in France being eligible for citizenship (via naturalization) after 5 years of being a resident under a CDS-visitor.
https://www.escapeartist.com/blog/how-to-retire-in-france-as-an-expat/
Interesting! Do they have any case studies of people who have successfully done it?
David – the assertion is made in this article about retirees getting citizenship, but I simply don’t see any proof of that in the article. I’m not saying it’s not possible; I’ve just not met a single retiree in France who’s done that, and I’ve met dozens. Many of them don’t even have a ten year card, because they can’t pass the A2 language exam necessary to gain that card.
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Beautiful article, its comforting to know that we are all in this together even though I live thousands of miles away in an island. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you Neal!
Thank you for writing such a wonderful article on life in Paris right now. I especially like the last paragraph as I have been reflecting on my life and feeling thankful knowing sadly there are others in much more dire circumstances. Take care.
Thanks Janet!
Beautifully written! Your last paragraph in particular touched my heart, as I have been reflecting on the same thing.
Thanks Janie!
Hi Stephen,
Thanks so much for your post. One question I have is, do you happen to know if it is at all possible to apply for this visa from france? I’m currently here on a travailleur temporaire visa and I’d like to apply for the profession liberale without having to go back to the US. Plus with the Corona virus who knows if the borders will even be open. Thanks in advance!
Sheila how long have you been here as a temporary worker?
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for your blog and replies to questions!
I’m also in a similar situation as Sheila. I’m in France on a Étudiant-Stagiaire VLS-TS for 6 months, which I successfully extended for another 3-months (with a récépissé), following the covid situation.
I want to apply either for a Passeport Talent – création d’entreprise or the Profession Liberale visa.
Would you know if in my case, I would have to return to the US to file for the new visa?
No; if you are here on a valid visa you can switch and apply from here. You only have to go back to your home country when you have a non renewable status or never obtained a visa in the first place.
Thank you very much!!
At this point only performing ON STAGE artists or visual artists selling their creations fit in the passeport talent status. Youtuber does not fit into this category.
So if you enter as a tourist, you would have to leave and come back? Is there a way to do this from within France? Or another business scheme for self-employed (even if it means starting a business on paper) to do this from within Europe? Thank you! I really want to live in France, make enough income independently, know the language and culture, and lived there for a few months last year (on my visa waiver). U.S. citizen.
In order to apply from France you must have status here. As a tourist you have no status. I recently helped an American apply from Germany, but he had legal residence there, hence he could. I also helped an American apply from Japan, because she had legal residence there. Unless you have some kind of status here, you can’t apply from here.
The message
So if you enter as a tourist, you would have to leave and come back? Is there a way to do this from within France? Or another business scheme for self-employed (even if it means starting a business on paper) to do this from within Europe? Thank you! I really want to live in France, make enough income independently, know the language and culture, and lived there for a few months last year (on my visa waiver). U.S. citizen.
MY ANSWER
1 – tourist = no immigration status = 90 day limit per 183 days (last 6 months)
2 – visiteur = immigration status that allows a stay in France renewed every year but zero right to work. Starts by asking for a long stay visa bearing this name
3 – profession libérale = immigration status grounded on the creation and running a French consulting business minimum annual sales 23,000€, Starts by asking for a long stay visa bearing this name
BTW all immigration statuses are reviewed by the prefecture and it feels like you are being reviewed by the French police.
I have read that if you are a student and you successfully complete your studies and receive a degree, you may then apply to live/work in France without returning to USA.
Yes, but you must get a job at a certain income level within a certain amount of time, or that visa expires. It is not open-ended.
It also provides a shortened path to citizenship for the successful.
Allow me to widen the answer.
1 – within a few limitations once you have a French immigration status that can be renewed, you can change it for one that corresponds to your personal and/or professional life at the time. This means asking for a carte de séjour with a different name on it.
2 – there are many and I mean A LOT of different statuses to choose from on a professional ground and ’employee’ is rarely the most secured or the easiest all things considered. There has been a radical change for the “salarié” procedure where now the employer starts the process and not the foreigner anymore.
3 – self-employed is divided in France in 3 categories (profession libérale, artisan & commerçant) and it is critical to very clearly identify what you are doing professionally in order to register the business correctly. Many foreigners who do it without proper counsel, do it wrongly and end up in some sort of trouble sooner or later.
4 – the normal procedure toward naturalisation is carte de séjour then carte de résident then naturalisation. Therefore a realistic timeframe discloser to 7 years. It is rarely shorter even though reading the legal provisions one can think it can be done after 2 years.
5 – the corporation set-up in France is also very different. Being a partner alone does grant any immigration right and for the same reason can be done without any immigration status.
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Thanks for this new post.
Recently my partner and I fired SG as well. They also took a monthly fee from both our banking accounts, which were nothing special at all and we had to check our balance ourselves using their not-exceptional phone app. When we enquired about a loan, they took their own sweet time to get back to us – they were so slow that we began to fear that we may lose our deposit if we don’t finalise our choice of bank for a loan soon.
We opened a backup account with Boursorama late last year and it was fuss free and without a monthly fee. Granted they don’t have face to face customer service agents (it’s part of their business model I suppose) and à few times we had to spend 20 minutes on hold over the phone to get someone to talk to us. But in the end, we never truly benefitted from having a relationship manager with SG either! 😏
I agree.. don’t hesitate to fire a lousy bank. There are plenty of fishes in this ocean indeed.
Would love to have a Boursorama account but they don’t accept American citizens.
Oh, I didn’t know that. Interesting. That’s strange to single out Americans like that. Did they mention what their “beef” with Americans is?
FATCA: https://theamericaninparis.com/2016/06/02/troubleshooting-bank-accounts/
Stephen Heiner
Great info as always.
Do you need a job to open with BNP? Currently I’m not working, but do have a considerable amount in savings.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Thank you
As long as you have a valid residential status, and are willing to gently argue your rights, should not be a problem that you don’t have a job.
I am so proud of you, I think you have to much patience but you are a very fare person. My daughter had an account in France which she recently closed and I also found that they were taking out to much charges. I love to read your blog, they are so insightful. Keep up the good work and stay safe. God bless.
Sincerely
Neal
Thanks Neal!
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Beautifully written, this reminds of when I was passing through a metro station in France in 2018 I think it was Citi and was I charged €75 ×4 for not having a picture on my metro card the metropolice. I came back home to my country (Trinidad) and wrote all the relevant authorities in France and was eventually refunded but that’s an abridged version of a long story. I think you should still persue your refund of €175 as a matter of principle. Even if you have to write the CEO of Groupama. I would love to hear your story with the airlines and hotels believe me I have many as well, from hurricanes to a closed apt in London and most recently I was on route to China in England when BA cancelled my flight and had to return home. Keep writing, do you write for a living. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Neal! Perhaps sometime I’ll share those airline and hotel stories 🙂
Hello Stephen!
Hope you are well, I had a question about the renewal of this visa, do we need to provide a certificate of proficiency in french language at the time of renewal? I heard somewhere they ask for a A2 level certificate at the time of renewal? Is that true?
Thank you so much!
Bonne journee!
No Nico – you are thinking of the 10 year card. No language proficiency is required for visas of shorter length.
Dear Stephen,
What a great blog! For folks who are a bit anxious about intepreting government rules and regulations on immigration, blogs like yours are super well received.
I currently have a recherches des emplois visa after finishing two years at uni (grand ecole, if it matters). I have many questions about the types of work you can do with a profession liberale visa, since I will unlikely get a CDI or CDD due to my work.I am effectively a consultant for large IOs, and would ideally like to set myself up as a consultant with micro-entrepreneur status and the accompanying visa. My main question is whether the income generated from clients has to come from France, or if they can be international? Thoughts?
France isn’t inwardly oriented. They don’t expect all your business to be domestic. But if you start a French business you’re going to have to house that income in France. They can live wherever they want. Your income from them has to live in France 😉
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for this informative article! Do you have to show a history of success as a freelancer? If you find a US company that will take you on as a freelancer, will that strengthen your dossier or are they more interested in having you just work as a freelancer in France? Thanks!
Britta
You can take clients from anywhere in the world. The point is whether you can make a good case to the French that you can build a sustainable income as a freelancer. Previous history is helpful, but not required!
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I am amazed to see through your eyes ie. writing how easy things are over in France hardly any bureaucracy if you are an organize computer savvy person as you are. In my country which is third world it’s not that easy. Although I was able to file taxes online but that has been so for the past 5 years or so. We need to copy from you and impliment some of those systems so that we can survive in this new normal covid19 world. I as usual always enjoy your stories. When I see your emails I drop everything and read. You seem to be an extremely organize individual.Thank you and keep on writing.
Thanks Neal!
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Thanks for the astute observation. Indeed as a foreigner living in France, the sheer lack of respect towards rules and the authorities exhibited by every (other) French person seems inspiring at first, but only becomes downright unnerving. Surely the modus operandi of your regular French person includes the idea that “rules are meant to be broken”, but it didn’t occur to them that rules are also there for a reason.
In this particular case of the pandemic，a very good reason indeed!
Even before the confinement has been lifted, I have observed lawn parties thrown on grass patches within the boundaries of some apartment complexes, in shady corners far away from roads and of course in the private yards of houses. From my apartment balcony I see this family who comes and goes so often they should be bankrupt by now if they were fined everytime they went away on their little unsanctioned trips. (They give themselves away since their dogs wake up the entire neighborhood every time they come home.) And no, I don’t think anyone in my building has reported them yet even though it has become pretty obvious what they have been doing! They also get visitors that drop by, hang out for a few hours, then go away. And this is a classic example of some of the million offenders that you mentioned in your article.
Maybe we should trial them for war crimes when this is all over out of respect for those who were/would be sacrificed in this war. Or you know what, let’s embrace “la vie en France” for what it is. Santé! 😏
A glimpse into a stay at home mandate in France, beautifully written. Looking forward to your next piece. Thank you and stay safe.
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Hi Stephen!
Thank you for your fantastic and very helpful articles. You help to relieve some anxiety!
I have the PL visa too. I have validated my visa (done online now) and registered with URSAAF. Are there any other procedures to follow upon arrival in France? Are we eligible for the carte vitale in the first year?
Thank you in advance for any help!
Emily
Emily
If you have the visa you are eligible immediately. You just need to get it from CPAM.
Thank you for your quick reply.
How do you register with CPAM?
Comment again when you’ve gotten your social security number etc and I can help from there.
Hi, and thank you for all your wisdom. 🙂
Question: I have an Illinois driver’s license. I know I can swap it for a French one. I own property near Limoges. Feb. 14th of 2018 I closed on the house. I still work with a 3 month visa. Back and forth I go to Chicago. Since I haven’t been ‘living’ here (technically) for one year straight, does my collective time which now adds up to 15months (over a period of two years) mean that I’m over the 1-yr. status of being here? I don’t have a carte de séjour. I do have a meeting Aug. 18th at the préfecture hopeful to get a long stay or resident stay. I do own a car.
Hope this makes sense.
Thanks, for your time, and be safe!
JAsper
The restriction is to those who have been resident here. Your stats on a tourist visa do not count. You should only refer to the date of your long term stay visa if and when you get that.
Stephen, I appreciate you writing a response. Good to know. I came to the right format to seek an answer.
Continue to be safe. JAsper
Again beautifully written it’s like you have the ability to read one thoughts. I will never ever forget this covid 19 lockdown it will forever be imprinted on my mind. You see my wife of 33 years who was terrible afraid of covid died of a heart attack on the 26 th May at around 4:30 am. I am heartbroken because the love of my life who was planning to retire in 2 years for the first time came to terms with staying home with me. Actually while she was working at home for the past 2 months we became closer. I having taken a separation package about 6 years ago thought to myself well only 2 more years and with this covid we will try our best and be cautious. She left me with 2 daughters I have to be strong for them, the younger who did cheat compressions before the paramedics arrived feels that she could have done a better job and save her Mom. I feel guilty that I did not recognize that her complaints of acid reflux the night before was more serious. I don ‘t know if we will ever be ok again but I do know my daughters would eventually move on. I think I will be stuck in limbo and die a lonely old man. 2020 started of so beautiful for us my daughter graduated in The University of Sussex and while my elder daughter teaches English in China she joined us in Brighton and we all enjoyed that graduation so much as a family. We stayed for a week in Brighton and then moved to Greenwich and stayed there for another week. Then all hell broke loose and China was on a lockdown and her mother insisted that she return home and she obliged. Thank god she did otherwise I don’t know what would have happened if she was in China since our borders continued to be closed. God can you restart 2020. It’s like I am living a nightmare.
I’m very sorry to hear about this Neal.
This was such a refreshing balanced read. France’s way of life always intrigued me and I wondered how they managed to carve out these benefits but also deal with a jeopardized business climate. It’s always great to hear the other side. Thank you.
What happens if my appointment for renewal of carte de séjour is 5 months before the current card’s expiry date ? Will they kick me out at the appointment for going in too early ? And even if they process my application, will they still issue me the récépissé if my current card still has like 5 months of validity? Thanks!!
Ps. The reason I got an early appointment is that it’s super difficult to get an appointment in my area, sometimes people take months to get 1, so I started checking for appointments 6 months before my card’s expiry and was super lucky to get an appointment the following month, but then it also means it’s 5 months before cards expiry , a bit too early . But if I cancel this appointment I’m not sure when I’ll be able to get 1 again…
Jess there is nothing to stop you from renewing early. It just means you effectively pay more, since you are going to give them more money 5 months sooner than you are required to.
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Excellent post as always, Stephen! Thank you for sharing your experience today. So fascinating to hear all that transpired in what used to be a somewhat easy journey to/from the USA.
Thanks Janie!
Stephen,
Thank you for a highly useful posting on a hard-to-find-guidance-on subject. I noted your comment in italics about having to have renewed the visitor visa at least once before being able to apply for the PL visa. I am up for my first renewal of a long stay visitor’s visa and had hoped to ask for a modification to my visa during the renewal process so that I could begin to work as a freelancer in France as soon as possible. By any chance, do you know if the rule of needing to have renewed the visitor visa at least once has changed? (My fingers are crossed.) And if it hasn’t, do you know I can apply for the PL any time after I’ve renewed my long stay visitors visa? Or would I have to wait out an entire additional year, until the renewed visitor visa expires? Thanks in advance for any guidance you can give on this complex subject.
Holly
As far as I know this rule has not changed.
Thank you. Tant pis pour moi.
Hello,
Should one include a business lease with the application? Or is that only necessary for brick-and-mortar business models?
Thanks.
No business lease necessary, unless it’s an integral part of your business. This visa classification is most often used by freelancers, who don’t have an office. Also keep in mind if you’re going to start a business that does north of 100k annually in revenue, this visa classification won’t work for you.
Wow. What do you mean? What happens to one (in theory) if one to exceed 100’000€ annual? There is so little to no information about profession liberale that this is the first hear about such criteria.
Fotus
There isn’t going to be a giant red light that goes off the moment you hit 100,000. The problem will occur later, with two different agencies.
The tax office will reject your claim to profession liberale status, and demand that you incorporate into some form of company to house this income.
The rejection of your profession liberale status will mean you cannot present tax returns in that status at your next renewal with the immigration authorities, which will lead to the non-renewal of your visa.
The effect of crossing this financial barrier is delayed, but deadly for those who wish to stay on in France under this regime.
Once again I am bringing a different angle here:
1 – 100,000€ annual sales puts you in the “REEL simplifié” income tax status where one must have full accounting and therefore itemise expenses. So it is possible that 30,000€ is spent during the 1st year considering the size of the billing.
2 – Should it be the case then asking for the immigration status “PASSEPORT TALENT Nº4 – créateur d’entreprise” would be a much better deal than the “profession libérale” one as it could be a 4 year carte de séjour.
3 – Stated differently and broadening my comment. Profession libérale is 1st and foremost a legal status as a self-employed professional. Then and only then there is a choice between 3 different fiscal statuses for the related BNC (the name of the income tax of profession libérale)
– MICRO (often linked to the auto-entrepreneur status)
– réel simplifié which is standard by law between 74,000€ and 500,000€ in annual sales
– réel normal above that.
So it is possible to register both with the prefecture and with the tax office right away with the right status.
Choosing it wisely can be complicated as many elements go in the decision making process.
I just read in David Hampshire‘s Living and Working in France that in the case of reciprocal states exchanging your license for a French one, you still have to take the written test. That you were only exempt from the driving test. Is this correct?
It’s always possible that the legislation could have changed, but the people I know who did it did a straight swap.
No need to take a test written or otherwise. It just takes a long time to get the paperwork through the French system.
Patience is a virtue Due to Covid it took over a year. I switched a Florida one . Send a copy of a property tax bill/rental agreement to show prior US residence as well as something that shows you have permanent residency
in France and the date of when you first did that. I went to the Mairie and asked for a certificate stating I my primary residence and domicile in the town I live in.
Great work!
I just want to thank you for taking the time to document all of these details and provide such valuable information!
Thanks!
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Hello Stephen,
Great information! Thank you for the time and energy you’ve put into it.
I’m an American currently living in Germany considering a move to France to start my own business as an artist/designer. My questions are – Do you know if work as an artist (creating textile, ceramic, metal, and photography based works) would also be classified under the PL visa scheme? It seems that it would for the manufacturing or service categories, but also isn’t very clear. Also, in terms of the Cover Letter for a PL application, would I then apply in German since I reside there now (or English due to my nationality)?
Lastly, I’ve been working as an English teacher in Germany the last seven years- would such work experience (despite two degrees in design) hinder the acceptance of my visa application?
Your thoughts/experience would be much appreciated for answering these! Thank you in advance.
All the best,
Lindsay
Several things need to be said:
under French law there are only 3 types of artists:
selling copyrights – authors, translators of books, illustrators of books, artistic photographers,
selling art – painters, sculptors, visual artists
performing artists – anyone who is on stage performing.
Therefore this is what you describe creating textile, ceramic, metal, and photography based works is defined as ‘CRAFTS’ and fall in the category of ‘artisan’ and never profession libérale, which basic definition is that NOTHING is sold not a thing! It is a much more complex immigration status to obtain as the financing to launch this activity in France is significant (at least as the French administration sees it). Indeed you need a shop to perform your crafts and therefore renting it as it is illegal to do it in your home.
Being an independent under French law means that you need to fit in one of these 3 categories -profession libérale -artisan -commerçant (which is being a merchant)
following a 17th century logic (this legislation comes from Louis 14th!) if one activity is qualified as a merchant it supersedes everything else. If one activity is qualified as craft, it supersedes all the profession libérale activities. This means that you can be aside from your craft – teacher, coach, adviser, fashion creator, selling drawings and so on, it never changes the fact that there is the craft in your activity.
Ideally, your application should be in French. German would be acceptable. I have no idea about submitting it in English.
The bottom line in my view – you need to rethink everything about your project to move to France, making sure you submit according to the right provisions of French law, learning a lot about what the “artisan” status.
Golly. You know your stuff! What about “performing artist aka online performer aka youtuber?” Would I fall under this category?
I’ve prepared my dossier for Germany but I’m looking to France as a backup plan.
My qualifications are in engineering incl. a degree from a university in france. However they are totally irrelevant to my work at the moment.
Thanks for your help and the great article x
Sure Mel why not? 😉
Hi Stephen! Really amazing information here, thank you so much for your generous posts. Clear, concise and easy to follow, for the most part.
Question please, I am hoping to move to France by next year. I have an existing small business as a global coach (which I plan on bringing with me) but also want to study the language full time And enroll in a school. So this may be obvious, but would I shoot for the “Profession Liberale” visa? Even if the income could be quite low? (It is a changing business so I don’t really know)
As if I were to try for a student visa I am not able to work…? Is my understanding.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanking you in advance and I look forward to reading more!
Alicia
Alicia actually a student visa allows you to work up to 20 hours a week.
As long as the business can bring in at least 15-20k a year you’ll successfully renew. If you don’t think you can get it up to that in time, why not just get a student visa and keep your coaching business as a US based entity?
Will this session be available as a recording we could watch after?
The recording will be available for all Patreon subscribers to Nomadic Matt: https://www.patreon.com/nomadicmatt
XXXXXX charges $4,900 to do everything for you. $1,800 if you do it with the videos and materials XXXXX provides.
But a French lawyer told me that you never, ever tell them, anyone, you’re working, never. Not the consulate, not the prefecture, not a landlord. No one.
So I’m unclear how you can show the consulate/prefecture your remote income on a visiteur and get away with it.
Please clarify.
Also, can you clarify what documents exactly you should show a prospective French landlord? What can’t they ask for? What should you never show them?
Thanks
Barbra
I don’t know what else to tell you other than I have worked with clients who have shown as their proof of income a remote job and the accompanying pay stubs. I don’t doubt your lawyer is thinking “letter of the law,” but my experience tells me he’s wrong, at least on the ground level that I experience.
As for a prospective French landlord, check out this post: https://theamericaninparis.com/2018/10/01/to-rent-or-to-own/
Hi! I’m a resident of France & US but currently living in the US for the last year. Planning to go back to France for a few months – do you think I could bring a VA license and make it work for an échange ?
Renee
If it’s been more than a year since your residence in France began, then you are no longer eligible for a swap.
If you have US licence and you go back to France just for a few months if you do get pulled over and have US Passport. Don’t sweat it. Just speak english act like a tourist. The cop will not bother
Great advice Stephen, thank you! Only thing is I can’t be a student forever…
So you are saying that if the business can bring in 15-20k, annually on consistent basis, should be no problem with applying for PL visa? (Self employed). And is it still considered a US based business, registered in the US?
I need both! Let’s say I apply as student for over 6 months to a year. Working 20 hours a week…am I able to apply for a PL visa while still in France After that time period? Or will I need to return to the US to apply since it’s a different visa..? ( side bar, have alternative income not related to my coaching business does not count? Or could help? Showing sufficient funds??)
Thank you again!
Alicia
Your US based business has nothing to do with the French. They have no power to stop you from earning money in other parts of the world, legally or morally.
The question for Profession Liberale is regarding a FRENCH business. You will have to make 15-20k (in euros) per year in order to keep a Profession Liberale visa.
You can change status while a student to different visa classifications, including Profession Liberale.
As far as the “alternative income” – the French don’t care how you have access to funds to sustain yourself as your Profession Liberale business gets off the ground, just that you have funds. I sent you an email on this.
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Back pocket for an iPhone is a terrible idea (had mine stolen that way). I understand the bag buffer, but I think you’re going to be writing this story again shortly if you keep it up!
I hope not Elsa! How did the thief manage?
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I’m sure people said “bonne journée.”
Stephen obviously has magical powers that he employs at borders and entries. Best not to try this yourself. ;-0
Hi Stephen!
I’m interested in becoming a freelance English teacher in France and not sure what visa to apply for since I would technically be self employed. I’m currently teaching (and a resident) in Germany and was also wondering if it’s even possible to apply for a visa from here.
Thank you!
Probably PL. what’s your country of nationality?
When it is suggested to bring in recent US tax filings to open an account, is it the W2 form or something else?
Also, what is FATCA and any tips for dealing with it?
Joe I answered your questions about the W2 in another comment. As for FATCA: https://theamericaninparis.com/2016/06/02/troubleshooting-bank-accounts/
Hi Stepen,
I had a German visa and lived between Germany and Paris when I launched my skincare brand. Our audience has always been primarily French. I no longer have that German visa but continue to do business in France back and forth from the US. I am now looking to just be full time in France and get a Talent Passport visa to start a business (we are rather tiny but big promising).
Thanks to lots of press, our mission in the wellness space, both the brand and myself have a bit of a name/following.
I already have an apartment lease in Paris I’ve held for years, lots of press (NY Times, i_D mag to name a few), I have just a little over 30k euro in my account, and every year Ive had at least one partnership contract that increases in monetary value (2016 was 15k this year is 100k, with possibility of redoing the same project next year). The one for this year (technically already done but they don’t have to know that do they? I can write that its extended due to covid delays) and have some friends who have their own businesses/agencies who are willing to write me letters saying we have future collaborations (so that I can show future pending work) , I have an FBI report of no criminal record. Do you think this is enough to get one of these visas?
Do I have to have a masters? Is this enough history that I have been doing lots of committed work over the last few years? My biggest point is that I can bring in even more economically to France if I am able to be there full time vs just flying in. Do you think letters from friends who have businesses promising future work upon my arrival is enough? (I obviously won’t say they are friends)
Annya
This article is not about passeport talent, but about profession libérale, and you certainly have a lot going for you in that regard. As for your question regarding the letters of interest, of course, there’s no way for the authorities to know those are also your friends. 😉
Apologies, I assumed they were the same thing. It seems this PL is much easier to get approved than Passport Talent- Creation of New Business.
If so, do you think I am able to change my application for this?
There are 10 subcategories for ‘passeport talent’ I see 14 and I can explain if needed. About half of them deal with creating a business in France with different requirements for different situations.
In short ‘profession libérale’ requires a business plan and securing the financing which includes the French clientele.
All the ‘passeport talent’ demands a minimum of money invested, and of compensation coming from the business among other things.
I write quite a lot about both trying everytime showing how different they are.
Thanks Jean. I have looked into these and applied for Passport Talent. They however categorized me as independent worker and did not accept my application as of right now, due to pandemic, they are only doing Passport talent. Based on my needs I thought I qualified for PT under a few categories so I am very confused
When you write this:
“Thanks Jean. I have looked into these and applied for Passport Talent. They however categorized me as independent worker and did not accept my application as of right now, due to pandemic,”
This is wrong. This decision should have nothing to do with the pandemic. It is very likely that your visa request did not fully complied with the Nº5 sub category of passeport talent. One is very different from the other this one demands a lot more in terms of education and financial investment (30,000€ invested the 1st year!)
After many years in Paris (arrived as a student in the 80s), I’ve never been pickpocketed and never used a neck wallet or banana/hip bag. A thin wallet slipped into your front pocket when in the metro is a great idea, or zipped safely in a bag. Or no wallet at all, just your bank card and/or a couple of bills. You’re likely to be robbed again if you feel comfortable with your wallet in your back pocket or loose in a front jacket in crowded places. Bonne chance!
I have a new thin wallet that I keep in my front pocket. I appreciate all the feedback and will report back if anything happens. 🙂
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thanks for the very helpful articel but there is something i want me to ask can PL visa buy property in FR? because I don’t get much information about it. and what about my property ownership status if I have a PL visa. thank you
Anna
You don’t need any visa status in France in order to buy property there. You could live in New Zealand and never come to France, for example.
normal French banks only look at income preferably income earned “in France”. Therefore having a successful self-employed business in France makes it easier to get the loan. Also there are brokers who find lenders when most of the money is outside of France.
Last thing as Stehpen said, buying real-estate in France is completely disconnected to any immigration status.
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Hi Stephen,
Thanks for this info. I agree that one can totally avoid learning French, even when living in France.
I have a question about these levels of proficiency. If I’m told by two sources (AF and native French private tutors) that my level is C1-C2, do I still need to officially prove my level via an exam once I move to Paris next year? Or when I get the 10 year residency card? I’m unclear what happens once I arrive and later on, in terms of language testing.
PS. I intend to continue to work on my French once I’m there and fully immersed. I feel that it can only make life easier( better).
Thanks again!
Lucy
As I noted, you don’t have to “prove” your competency unless required by some form of bureaucracy. If you arrive here on a PL visa, for example, on your OFII visit you’ll be informally quizzed in French. If they are unsatisfied with your level you get signed up for 100 hours at the mairie. As for the 10 year card, you referenced “after” you get it but as I said, you need to submit the test as part of the process of getting it, and you can’t get a 10 year card until you’ve been here at least 5 years.
Thanks Stephen. This makes a lot of sense.
Hi Stephen, Does the certificate showing that you passed (A2 or B1) expire after a period of time? Thanks
No expiration.
Hi Stephen, Just started filling the online VISA form to apply for Prof Lib but Prof Lib is not in any of the options for the two required fields (“Your Plans”, and “Main Reason of stay”) in the online form. I tried two options:
a] If I select Talent Passport – International talents in “Your Plans”, I see “Business Creator/ Talent” as an option in the “Main Reason of stay” field.
b] If I select Business in “Your Plans” field, I see Entrepreneur or Independent Profession in the “Main Reason of stay” field.
Am I on the right path?
Joon
Looks like b is the path. Passport Talent is a totally different visa.
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I have a California DL and was thinking of exchanging to a Texas DL before my move to France next year in June. Would that work to exchange to a French DL? Thanks
Carlos
As long as the state in question has reciprocity with France, and as long as you do the exchange in your first year, you’ll be fine.
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Do you know if I can exchange my driving license during the validity of my first visa visiteur valant titre de sejour? Or only after I get my first titre de sejour?
Thank you in advance!
Ksenia as I said in the article, you can only exchange in your first full year of residence as an immigrant. In my case that would have been before I received my first plastic carte de sejour.
There is a very common misundrstanding made. Residency and carte de séjour. The latter one is just one of MANY French IDs for foreigners living in France. I have in mind 5 of them and there could be more. Therefore proving and therefore having a French immigration residency can be documented many other ways.
There is another very common one. Holding a long stay visa called “VISITEUR” and going through the OFII procedure, makes you an IMMIGRANT, not just an extended tourist.
Therefore you can only exchange your driver license while holding your visa+OFII document, as it is your 1st year of residence in France.
I hope that I have not been too long for what could appear to be a very basic question once people understands and accepts what the words mean!
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Hi! Your articles have been the most helpful yet in our research. Thank you so much.
Is this the visa to try for if we have an existing business in the US, and wish to continue that same business in France?
And when they say financial requirements, does that need to be proof of a certain amount of income from the specific business or just money in an account?
Thanks again!
Christina
You can play it that way if you want, but I wouldn’t make it sound like the businesses are connected. Just indicate you’ve had experience in this before and you want to do it again, but in France.
Financial requirements just mean money you have access to. It could be in a bank account, 401k, stocks, etc. I know this seems counterintuitive, but the French don’t think of business bank account money as “yours.” If you are paying yourself W-2 or 1099 from that business, those stubs would be more helpful.
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Hi,
I want just the opposite!
I’m a dual citizen (Fr/US).
I traded my CT driver’s license for a French one 7 years ago, and now, I’m ready to return to the US.
What do I need to get a new American license? Will they just trade it in?
As long as the reciprocity agreement is in place, yes.
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It depends on where you leave in the US and for which company. I am both French and American and worked in both countries living in both Paris and San Diego which is very expensive also (if you want to live by the beach :)).
I made 4x more in SD in salary. I was working for a very large company who did pay 100% of my health insurance PPO (had $0 out of pocket and $0 deductible). I was a privileged one in the US I guess…. In another company I worked for, I was contributing to $50/month for my PPO health insurance which was covering a lot also (few hundreds out of pocket).
True that most workers in the US probably don’t have that chance but I think that overall, even with all the French crazy benefits, and the crazy health insurance in the US one makes more money in the US for an equivalent good paid job. Taxes at the end of the year are better in the US. A lot more can be itemized and the % tax brackets are much larger in the US so you pay less % for a large salary.
Bottom line, high middle class or rich people, go to the US if you can. Middle middle class to lower middle class, stay in France.
For a middle middle class person, you are better off in France.
As a middle-middle class person with children, you are better off in France, because child care is essentially free. Once your kids are older, a lot of that benefit disappears. And then you begin to feel the pinch from taxes + low income.
Do not the mistake that health care is free in France. It is not. It IS however guaranteed, which is a big difference. We calculate that we pay about the same if not more in total health care in France than we did in the US (on a typical employer plan).
Hello,
Thank you for sharing this, it’s really thrilling to see that there are bloggers who are aware that there is the option to study in France especially since schools in France are 50% cheaper than the US and have joined the bandwagon of encouraging international students by conducting most courses in English such as HEC Paris etc… I mostly see advice and articles about moving as a partner or just as an expat and little about students, which is quite interesting since many red tape issues can be made easier by being a student, no? Not to mention the cheaper cost of education and the opportunity to be there without needing to have a job. Not to say you wont be exclusive to the lack of customer service treatment but if the school offers housing for example, that paperwork is resolved…
So happy that your blogs are also recent. Thank you for sharing frequently. I am a person who just got accepted into an MBA program in France for fall 2021 and I am preparing by reading about what to expect. I am a person who has gone through immigration stuff within the US by also being a citizen of an African country and am hoping for the best and preparing for the worst…I’ve already began collecting my documents to open a bank account in France…However, I hope there will also be more writing about what it’s like being a student as well as a minority in France, which I think will be my biggest obstacle, that I am trying to prepare for in a country that doesn’t have formal affirmative action laws.
Hi Lillian,
Thanks for reading, and I’m glad this article has proved useful! Best of luck to you in your MBA program. Make sure you watch this space in case we publish any articles about the student experience in France!
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There appears much discrepancies with VFS Global and the Washington DC embassy with Passeport Talent as this appears the only way to earn a real visa that can be renewable up to 4ans and permits work. VFS says one thing, the Embassy says something different. For example, for all the “flavors” of these talent passeports, many individuals could be working for themselves based on being authors, artists, having a reputation nationally and/or internationally in a specialised field, high level degrees, diplomas, etc….yet it appears that the Embassy wants French contracts, French employment by a French company with French clients, etc..etc..if not, you can apply for a long term visitor visa but not available due to the COVID, yet VFS states just show that you have money, etc.. through forms, documents, etc…and have a French project that helps France then you can apply for the passeport talent.
What happens if you get visa rejected–what then? All that work, selling cars, selling furniture, moving out apartments for a country that appears to not have its’ act together re: visas. If France is serious abt accepting talented folks to improve the community, then perhaps, they need to take these passeport talents seriously and vastly improve their horrendous ‘system’.
Gary – your points are well taken – but given the current disruption and the fact that France has currently removed two much easier options that Talent, namely Visitor and Prof Lib – they are somewhat out of context. So let me answer how I would in any time: visas are not a guarantee in any country. It’s a risk to “get ready” to move when you have no guarantee that you will have permission. As I’ve said here before, you can’t even apply until 90 days before your arrival at the earliest. That means that many of us, myself included, spent 9-10 months preparing as if we were going to move, even though we didn’t have permission. All life decisions are risky. Visas are no different.
I would add to Mr. Heiner’s answer, several things.
1 – There are 10 defined sub-categories, and I 14 in reality. So there are very different by nature divided between employee – self-employed & art&culture. So each of them must be very clearly identified.
2 – France considers even today the employee status to be much better than anything else. So this bias tains the administration position and guidelines.
3 – specifically the Nº10 – internationally famous as it is often called needs 3 things a) a very strong personal&professional project that demands to be in France b) a strong and large base of support in France c) it brings something valuable to France that goes beyond the financial aspect.
4 – therefore asking for French contrats, French events, French projects already secured is of course needed to grant the Nº10 visa.
5 – VFS does a bad job including explaining, the French consulate is very strict in its guidelines and since it issues the visa and not VFS, the applicant should always follow its guidelines.
6 – A French list is to be interpreted, and understood as showing the information requested not just what document is asked for.
Brilliant blog indeed, thanks for all the input Stephen. Quick question to your comment ‘the fact that France has currently removed two much easier options that Talent, namely Visitor and Prof Lib’ – do you mean they are not currently issuing PL or visiteur visas? Am in the midst of doing a PL on the France visa website and it doesn’t say anything about them not being available…? TIA x
Lucy this was true during a number of months post March 2020. It is no longer the case.
This said, the French consulate in DC & therefore the various VFS offices through out the country are closed during most of Feb.
If I understood correctly, COVID pandemic has put enough people out of work such that they needed to suspend their activities until enough people are back to work.
Thank you for the informative post!
I’m in France currently with a 4 year salarie CDS.
From my understanding I could apply for the Profession Liberale while still in the country on this visa, is that right?
Secondly, I would like to start a company with my friend (a French citizen), is this allowed with profession liberale ?
Anna
If you are salarie you need to check your contract to find out if you are permitted to start a business or acquire a profession liberale designation. Many of my friends on CDI are explicitly forbidden from starting a business.
On the logistical side, yes, if you are already here on a valid visa, you can apply for a new visa from here.
You don’t need a visa to start a business with a French citizen. You don’t even have to live in France to do that. That’s not an immigration question. Profession Liberale is not a “license to start a business” it is a “small business license.” You don’t get Prof Lib so you can start a company with someone. That’s something else entirely.
Hello,
I have co-citizenship but live mainly in California. We arrived in Paris on Jan. 4th (where we have an apartment), to stay for the spring. I hadn’t been in France for 18 months before that. This morning my rental car was towed (I stupidly parked in a delivery zone overnight) and though I spoke with the police and the tow driver, they refused to give me the car back, because I do not have a French driver’s license. (Hopefully the rental agency can get the car back.). I assume the City Hall is in error, and that because I am within a year, I can drive on my US (California) permit (as the rental agency also thought), but I wonder now if I might be mistaken? Any thoughts or advice would be welcome.
Chris
You’re in an odd place. While I think that you might be able to drive within your first year of residency on your California license, having French citizenship puts you into the zone with the French of “you should have known better.” I would gently remind you that if you have French citizenship, you should know the phrase, “I assume the City Hall is in error” has no meaning/relevance here. I would simply be helpful with the rental car agency to get the car back. And get yourself a French license so this can’t happen to you again. As far as I know California isn’t one of the swap states but I suggest you follow my advice in this article: get yourself a license in a state that does have swapping rights and use that one to get yourself a French license.
Thank you for the quick and helpful advice!
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Fascinating article. I have been very interested in French/Western European lifestyle compared to that of here in the USA. I am curious whether you think the lack of “innovation” is really that big of a drawback. USA has amazing innovation, but has innovation really benefited the country, or just benefit a very very small subsection of the workers, and that too mostly in one or suburbs of one city.
Steve
That’s a conversation that I’d love to have if you’re ever in town. My very short answer is yes, it does limit innovation, but that only matters if innovation is your summum bonum.
Hello Stephen,
Concerning VAT, Sales projections are around 33K this year, so should I collect it and if I do not reach it, send it back to the client? I do not want to be in a situation that I have to eat all the VAT I did not charge for an entire year, because I reached my goal. I am confused about not charging VAT however then I will owe it if I go over the threshold.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Christina
Christina
I would purposely hold your sales below the amount. If you’re going to collect VAT, you might as well be way over, like around 35k or 45k, then just 1k or 2k over. If that means you wait to bill some December work the following January, so be it.
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Ha! I am in USA and my family is in eastern France. I routinely Usps small packages and cards to them. “Sometimes” they arrive.
Once a package went from Paris to Vietnam before going BACK to Paris and finally to my family.
This time a package went from USA > Paris > Tokyo > Australia… where it’s now stuck for the past 12 days.
I am a french resident….with no for the extension of my first carte de sejour. I arrived with a American drivers license from a state without reciprocity. Firs time off our immigration attorney says the first year of residency BEGINES the date I picked up my first cate de sejour. Since that took nearly nine months to process that is a bit difference. Is he correct? Hate to find out he is wrong?
Linda – your residency began the day yiu arrived – but what does it matter since your state has no reciprocity?
I arrived in France in October 2020 with a “Passeport Talent” long stay visa. I received my Carte de Sejour December 30th, 2020. A few questions:
– Does this type of visa require me to get a French driver’s license within one year? (Jean Taquet’s comment above about the visa+OFII document confused me a bit).
– Does my “one year” begin with my arrival in France or the date on my Carte de Sejour?
– I plan on exchanging my CA driver’s license for a DE license this summer and exchanging that for a French license before the end of the year. The date on my new DE license will not show I’ve resided in Delaware for 6 months, but my documents used to obtain the license will. Would that suffice (assuming the prefecture is reasonable)?
Thanks for all your great information and advice!
The type of visa is irrelevant. Your residency starts the day you arrive in France. If you don’t swap within that first year, you are most probably locked out of swapping.
I’m not a big fan of their pre-prepared dishes, but what made me fall in love with Picard were the flash-frozen ingredients, especially bags of chopped onions (red or white, finely or roughly chopped), minced garlic, chopped tomatoes, frozen organic raspberries and wild blueberries for my smoothies, and — I’m sure this is ecologically questionable — the bags of cubed avocado, frozen in perfect ripeness, for making guacamole. I throw out soooo many fresh avocados that go bad (or are opened too early and inedible), so this saves me the trouble. I still use a lot of fresh ingredients, but it is nice to have those frozen ingredients ready for backup when I’m in the middle of making a dish and realize I’m out of shallots or my leeks went to rot when I wasn’t looking. I wasn’t a Picard fan for a long time, but they’ve won me over. 😉
Let’s just say I may have changed my mind on Picard also…more in a future article. Flattered to have you read a piece of mine, Heather! Thanks for all you do!
Is the 13k per person if you are in a family? Or 13k per adult or just total? Thanks!
Just me. You can expect it to increase proportionally for a family.
I’m slightly confused. If we exchange our California licenses for Texas licenses before we move, do we need to prove residency in Texas for 6 months prior? Will our visa applications need to say Texas as well?
Thanks for any clarity!
Mallory you’re asking two questions here. Firstly, I don’t know what is required for you to exchange a license in a particular state. Some may have residency requirements, some just require a utility bill.
But more importantly, getting a driver’s license has nothing to do with immigration. You will not be presenting immigration paperwork for the exchange. There’s no assumption by the French government that because you are resident in one state that you must have a driver’s license from that state as well. And remember, when you are here they really don’t care, as you’re now a French resident trying to swap out a foreign license for a French one. Again, this is a separate process and has nothing to do with your immigration application.
My son tried to exchange his Illinois license but it was refused due to residency requirements. He returned from the USA in June and started the process again. He just received a sms saying it was definitely refused in 2019. Does this mean they will not consider a new application? Can we buy time with a ‘recour’. Can he still drive for one year after his arrival in France
Please help he’s working and can’t get to work without a car
Jeannie there is nothing to stop him from getting a license the same way that the majority of people in France get one: take the test and pass.
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Interesting article, blog. Would love to see you doing a you tube vlog. I follow an American guy Jay Swanson on YouTube.
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We have a package stuck in Paris since April 12. No tracking communication since then. The final destination is in the south of France. Last year a package went to Paris, then to Ethiopia, back to Paris then to India and finally back to France. Two months ago a package was sitting in Chicago for 10 days before finally getting to France.
My BNP adviser just asked the past 6 months of my American bank statements. She said it was to see if I was not doing money laundering!!! She said the French counterterrorism was asking BNP to look at cash deposits. Is this legal? Do I have to show my past 6 months bank statements?
Thanks
I don’t know if it’s “legal” as I’m not a lawyer but it is pretty standard practice. My very first counselor at Société Générale told me she might ask for them but she never did and none of my BNP counselors have. It may just be a random search.
Okay, thank you.
B
Hi! Just to bounce off the tax issue with the long-stay tourist visa. I understand you are supposed to declare taxes even without french income, but are you also supposed to declare in France any income you earn in the States? With the visa we are allowed to work, just not for a French company, but if you have a remote work situation with a US company or work freelance for US publications, etc. do you need to declare that income to France in your taxes?
Roxy if you “earn income in France” you’ll violate the terms of your visitor visa. The remote work income should be construed as US income. There is both moral and legal precedent to do so. Don’t make your life more complicated and jeopardize your visa.
Hi,
I am so confused. If 100% of my income is through my US company while I work remotely in France, do I need to file taxes? If so, do I need to pay taxes, too, even though I have paid taxes on my salary in the US already?
Is there anything my employer needs to do? The more I read, the more I cannot decide what to do or how to start.
Thanks for any advice you can provide.
Rose
You have to file taxes in France if you are a fiscal resident of France, whether you make any money there or not. Whether you work remotely or not. America has the same rule. I think you have to be below a certain level of poverty in the US to opt out of filing taxes. You have to file taxes if you are a fiscal resident of France and if you are living in France for more than 183 days you’re a fiscal resident.
PAYING taxes is about what you have set up and that’s an accountant discussion.
Stephen,
Thanks for your reply. I do pay my taxes in the US.
By “set up” what do you mean, exactly?
I would be glad to pay taxes in France, but I don’t want anything to impact my employer. I.e. if I pay taxes in France, would that somehow get back to my employer and they would be on the line for paying taxes in France, as well?
By set up I mean I don’t know if you own companies or properties in other countries. That affects how you are set up for taxes worldwide.
I’m not an accountant so I can’t answer whether you will pay taxes in France or not. I can only say there is no scenario in which paying taxes in France means that your employer gets in trouble.
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I always find your posts super-interesting and informative (am also an American living in France). Here though, it’s great that you like Free, but I’ve read too many nightmare stories here about how hard it is to “fire Free” once they’ve got you that I never plan to choose them.
Kev
Given how easily I just fired SFR, and how easily banks allow you to oppose recurring charges to your bank account, I’m not concerned.
Glad to see that you saw the light at the end of the tunnel. My daughter who is an English Teacher since 2017 sighed up for Free Mobile and although she have not been out of her country of birth for the past 2 years she continue to keep paying for her Free Mobile plan. She is unable to use it here in Trinidad and Tobago but insists that she keep the plan for when our island opens up from Covid and she can get a job out there. She pays €2.00 to keep the plan but normally would pay €19.00 a month. Many times I questioned why she keeps the plan since it’s going into 2 years and she have not been able to use the plan but now I see her wisdom. By you endorsing the company Free Mobile. I once made a call in London to the US and the call costed me €116.00 thankfully I was able to retrieve my money from Expedia because they were the reason I had to spend and hour on her phone. Thank you for sharing your story. It was very helpful and interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it Neal!
I forgot to mention ensure your payment goes through on time from your bankers because the fees are exorbitant if you miss there date for payment.
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Very good article! As a US tax specialist (I’m an Enrolled Agent), many don’t understand the complexity when you are an American living
abroad.
I envy the French accountants as my
season doesn’t end until October 15th!
Thanks! Do you know about having a phone from a US company and how you know if it can use a new SIM card?
What did you do about texts for verifications purposes that went to your old US number?
Before I ever came here I acquired a Google Voice number (free to get) and all those texts have always gone there. I dumped my old US phone number.
Love this blog! What about renting out a property? I am a Canadian living in France on a long stay visitor visa. I have a small second cottage I have for family and friends. I would like to rent it out when not in use. It wouldnt make more than 10k euros/year. Can I do that on a visitor visa? If not, can I even get a different visa with such low earnings?
Krista
Property rental falls into a gray zone, as you could live outside of France and you would still be able to rent out a property (and pay taxes on your earnings). I suppose you could use that towards your total income, but you would need to tack on at least another 4k in savings or income as 10k is not enough to pass the means test for a visitor visa.
Stephen, great advice (of course). We bought a small pass to the main places we knew we were going to see. It worked out fine but we did leave room for just walking around. You’re right about the walkability of Paris! You coached us on how to use the metro and we navigated that pretty well. It was very easy once we got used to it. However, we loved just walking from one place to another. Paris is really a beautiful city!
So great to get to know your family as well!
I told my wife that you can’t “see” Paris unless you spend time in at least 4 cafes per day. That is the real Paris happens.
Have any favorite cafes to share?
Sorry, I misread: I understand you didn’t exchange your license and ask for a new US one- but do you know of anyone who did or what the rules are about that? Thanks!
Yes Beatrice I have received more than one email from someone who has successfully done precisely what I suggested in the article. Again, I cannot speak for all states but the principles I enunciated are sound, hence why I felt comfortable recommending that path.
Thank you for your reply! I’m going to try to do that.
Yes, yes, and yes. Great sound advice. I was very pleasantly surprised when I learned that my transit app works here, has been very useful to gauge how long next Metro, RER, or bus will be.
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Refusing banking bc you’re “American” and/or “US Person” with special boxes to tick stating that you are “American”. Could imagine if these boxes and refusals were bc you were a Jew? Or Black? Or Albanian?..that’s the US empire.
Nancy
Not quite the same thing. It’s reasonable for countries to react to unreasonable policies of our country. It only illustrates how little the US cares about its citizens abroad or how much their “foreign policy” resembles that of playground bullies.
Thank you M. Heiner. Many French banks specifically call out the US person/American-ness by having to tick boxes, particularly “US persons” etc for discrimination purposes due to US empire overreach and full spectrum US dominance.
However, the French govt/the French willingly and voluntarily participated in joining FATCA. That is willful bc they did not the 30% US empire penalty on their investment transfers and have provided very little if any ‘push back’ to the US empire. Why? Do they simply want USians for tourism purposes, but not as emigrants?
The French discriminate against US persons-it is similar as discrimination against Jews, Italians, Irish-need not apply. Tick that box-you’re a Jew. Rejected. It’s the same. Please Replace US person for Jew? Italian? Japanese? In fact North Koreans are permitted to open accounts NOT US persons–have this writing from a Parisian high street bank!?
The US Empire is unrelenting in their imperialism over our countries and total control of their tax subjects (“citizens”). Freedom? More like clever marketing/propaganda. Perhaps, it is time to renounce as with any toxic/abusive ‘relationship’ having a US person stigma is a total disability if one dares leave the US, they’re seen as a defector and cannot live an ordinary life for immigration purposes (not talking abt expating or temp long term visits). The US was a business enterprise masquerading as a country and it’s populace simply tenants/tax cows. All roads lead to renounciation (John Richardson). Thank you Sir.
My experiences with USPS parcels from USA to France (Paris)
I’m living in France
The record was 8 weeks and this was before COVID crisis …
Just recently 50 days.
To be honest, there is a small improvement, now I’m able to track the parcel from one departure to arrival ! That doesn’t make it faster but you can follow without registering
Before, when you are living outside USA, you can not register !!! For registration address is requested AND the STATE is claimed … but there is no states in France, and no way to specified you are oversea or outside USA.
When other carriers are used by sender it takes from 5 to 7 days !!!
I still don’t understand how they manage to be so slow ???
Regards
Sometimes if you use the department it will accept that as a “state” – not necessarily with USPS but with other vendors.
In any case, I have no idea why things are as slow as they are, but I do believe lack of proper staffing contributes to the problem.
We moved to France from Kansas, which is listed as a reciprocal state. We intended to exchange our American liscences for French ones. We brought all the necessary documentation, an agent provided by my husband’s employer, and were within the first year of residence here. The Prefecture said that Kansas was not on “their” list. It was a nightmare. We both had to pass the theory code and take driving lessons and exam like a novice driver. And all in French. It was a very stressful time. So even if online, the state is listed as reciprocal, it doesn’t always work once you get here.
Sorry to hear that Rachel! I don’t suppose they were willing to give you a copy of “their” list. That would be a valuable resource!
I have discovered the same thing with Kansas. There are various lists floating around the internet which seem to be out of date.
This website at interieur.gouv has a link to the most recent list (under “Conditions à remplir”):
https://www.demarches.interieur.gouv.fr/particuliers/echange-permis-conduire-passe-etranger-installation-durable
Here is the direct link to their PDF, dated August 19, 2021:
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/—_liste_permis_de_conduire_valables_a_l_echange_19.08.2021—_cle8171f6.pdf
Very kind for you to share an up-to-date list!
Hi this looks like the right place to ask a complicated question. I have applied for a exchange with my Michigan license (a reciprocal state) and have done it within the year allowed with my carts sejour. My license is still valid until 2023. I’ve just been notified to produce papers showing the original passing of my exam !!! That would be in 1986 in California (not a reciprocal state)— even if I could get this information – why would they ask when I have given them 10 years of a perfect driving record in Michigan? Even translated. And proof of residency? Have you ever heard this?
It might be the right place to ask Tatiana, but I’m sorry I don’t have a good answer – as I’ve never heard of this case before. Perhaps someone else in the comments may have and can share an answer!
my guess since I cannot read the French answer is probably the statement from your Michigan DMV that your license is still valid (you have not lost all your points) and includes information as towhee did you get it the 1st time, … In short the normal information found in a French license.
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Hi Stephen! Just curious–How do they play the audio? And for the dialogue, what type of questions did they ask? Thanks so much!
They used a computer, I think?
The type of questions are basic reading comprehension. The sample that I link to in the article gives you exactly what you need.
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Can you apply for the passeport talent while in France on the normal 90 day tourist visa? My husband has a job that will sponsor him for this visa already.
Hi Kelsey,
If your husband has been approved for his visa, you can apply to join him in France as his spouse. You can read more about that process here.
If I were you I would apply for it before you come to France to avoid any unnecessary problems.
I wish I had learned about you much earlier. In my eagerness to get started on my VISA, I learned about XXXXX’s book and thought it was thorough enough to deem her the expert. Since I have forked over $1500 which included two one hour consultations, she doesn’t even offer customer service to answer questions from her on-line courses. If anyone is considering using her services, I will be glad to talk to you about my experiences.
Sorry to hear that. I’ve heard enough bad news that I may have to do a name-and-shame article soon enough so that people who do a modicum of due diligence on Google can learn about her crazy prices and incorrect information.
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I would love to follow your story and updates. I am 54 and have a daughter living in Aix Provence for 5 months — we love all France, she has a degree in French Language.
Thanks Stephanie!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the DELF exam. I completely agree, the test requires many hours of study. Of course, it varies from learner to learner, but one should learn as much French as possible, inside and outside the classroom in order to successfully pass the test.
Thanks Caroline!
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Hello,
In the application that I filled out back in July I put two pieces of information that have now changed as I am going in for my VISA appointment on Sept 24:
1) The intended date of entry into France as 25.09.2021
2) The address in France during my stay.
Does this mean that I have to re-do cancel the appointment and change the application?
Thank you for this great blog entry. I was a victim of Allison Lounges and she has not been very forthright with information that I needed.
Vince
Just tell them the changed information during your appointment. You don’t have to start over.
I would like to add an extra warning on the so-called visa advisor referenced above. I hired this person for a year of assistance and within a month of my arrival in Paris, just as I was getting the sense that this person was not actually experienced in visa requirements and processes, my calls, texts and emails went unanswered and I never heard from them again. The worst part of this experience was not just the loss of the 3500 € that I had paid for these services, it was also the fact that I had tried to ensure that I was taking care of all my new responsibilities and requirements only to be left without any of those resources when I needed them the most. And while this person does not seem to have any worthwhile visa expertise, they are very skilled in erasing negative feedback and their previous websites and identities from the Internet. When I tried to track this person down, I found other clients who had also been cheated but those comments are longer accessible anywhere. I truly hope that no one else has to suffer this kind of experience.
Lucy
Im so sorry to hear that. It’s so strange that people can carry on for years as a fraud. It may be time to create a website to collect all of these stories. With SEO it’s the only way to make sure others are warned. If you think this would be worth pursuing, send me an email and we can talk more.
I just want put in a word for Stephen’s advice and info. It is spot on regarding remote work and also LS visa during Covid. We thought we couldn’t travel last year, and we saw his advice, took it, and all was fine. Same with the remote work. And he was so kind to call me to help answer a question I had once we arrived. We’re in the States for a “regroup” right now, but def will continue to follow his blog and his very reasonably priced courses.
Ah thanks Nancy!
Hi Jean, call me a dodo, an idiot, a half-wit, or whatever else you’d like (in large part because my question might’ve already been answered) — when does the 1 year limitation begin, a) our initial arrival to France? b) the date we received our titre de sejour card?
In my case I arrived Feb 4 2020 on just a normal tourist visa (just before covid), but didn’t get my titre de sejour until Apri 4 2021.
Thanks
Jerry
No need to name call! As it’s been noted above, the clock starts from the time your residency in France begins. If you’re on an ordinary visitor visa and you are now in possession of a card, your year has already elapsed.
Hi Stephen, and thanks for the wealth of information. I am going to France on a long-stay visa for only 5-6 months to do research type work, and wonder if it’s worth the hassle to apply for a French bank account. I have most of my large expenses already taken care of (e.g. Airbnb/housing) and already have a German bank account as well as Wise/Transferwise and Revolut. My only concern is whether the employer be okay transferring my salary in Euros to any of these, but other than that, I feel like it’s not worth a hassle. Should someone in my situation worry about getting a French bank account?
Denys
The bank account is integral for renewal. Since you’re on a visa for under 12 months, you’re ineligible for renewal anyway, so no worries. Skip the French bank account (unless you really want one, then your official visitor status gives you the muscle to open one).
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Returning to the subject of getting a French bank account for the purpose of paying rent, electric, phone, etc… You had mentioned Bred as being easy to access online so I tried for 2 weeks! the application process was finicky and keep telling me to do things I had already done (welcome to France!). Finally I reached an English speaking person from Bred on the phone and they told me some bogus information which never did work.
Is there any bank that will let me make an appointment online to come into the bank to apply to an English speaking agent? I dont speak French fluently enough to navigate a bank.
I do have Wise and their debit card which so far has worked well for my first 4 weeks in France on a Long Stay visitor Visa with Resident stamp.
Can you recommend a bank that will help me?
Antoinette
As I mention in my article on banks, there are other banks other than Bred. I would go into one of the branches mentioned and make an appointment there: https://theamericaninparis.com/2018/10/12/yes-you-should-get-a-french-bank-account/
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Wow. You are indeed brave and wreckless all at the same time but I can not fault you because I would have done the same. Beautifully written peace.
Thanks 🙂
I am so glad I was able to visit it in 2018 with my now deceased wife and 2 daughters. I plan to go back before I am called upon by the Lord.
Looking forward to all your future articles and I hope your colleagues are as interesting as you.
They are!
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Is there a program available for a grandmere?
Hello Lesia! Thanks for reading. I just want to make sure that I understand your question – do you mean is there an option for an older person to come to France on an au pair visa to be a live-in nanny?
Yes.
The au pair visa is for people aged 18-30! Unfortunately there is no au pair option for those older than 30. I hope this answers your question!
It does answer the question. Thank you.
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Hi Molli –
I am writing a new project here, and want to apply for the “passeport talent – profession artistique et culturelle.” I’ve read though your very helpful information, and downloaded the Eléments du ou des contrats de travail document. I’m just a bit lost when trying to find the profession artistique et culturelle application itself. Is it the link below?
https://france-visas.gouv.fr/en/web/france-visas/ma-demande-en-ligne
Thanks so much in advance for any info.
Hi Glen, thanks so much for reading! Yes, use the link you’ve provided to start the visa application process. You’ll have to create an account with France-Visas and follow the steps they provide. Once you’ve made your account you’ll be able to access the application. You can do this in English to avoid any confusion! I hope this helps.
Merci Molli – truly appreciate it.
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Hi everyone,
I bought on the Reebok US store sneakers. As they don’t ship in Europe a friend living in DC pick them and send me to France with USPS. I was checking informations about delays and found out your blog and was afraid after reading your article and comments…
just to balance and give you feedback about my experience : it was f*@#!k fast !!
My friend sent me last monday my parcel : October 18th and received it today October 26th
Maybe they improve their process and now the covid situation will be better and better…
be patient ! take care !
cheers
Nico.
Nico
That’s great to hear! That article was written some time ago so obviously things can change. I obviously am not hoping for delays, but am just telling people to prepare for them.
Good to know!! Did you have to pay customs, VAT etc?
Hi Antoinette,
I paid outrageous 55$ shipping fees from US to France for Sneakers.
My friend paid this amount straight in the post office
I didn’t know if customs fees where included in this fees because when I collected the parcel yesterday I didn’t pay something else.
It looks expensive, so I guess it was included… what do you think about it ? this price seems regular for you ?
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Hi! I’ll already be in France at the time as American on the 90 day visa! Will it be ok to apply at prefecture this way?
Rose if you mean the 90-day “visa waiver” that is not a visa in any kind of sense. You will have no status in France to apply, therefore you cannot apply here. You will need to apply from your country of residence.
I am in the process of applying for a long stay visa, I will continue to work remotely (I am self employed). What manner of documentation should I present?
Thank you,
Kyle Smith
Kyle
A simple letter from your employer acknowledging that you will be remote-working and that you will continue to get paid X amount.
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Very interesting commentary on this training, Gracie, thanks! One correction: although it is technically correct to say that the Fifth Republic began after WW II, it is more accurate to say that the Fourth Republic began after WW II. The Quatrième République was formed in 1946; the Cinquième République in 1958. As it was written, it’s like saying that JFK was elected after WW II; technically correct, but misleading.
Thanks reading and for the history info, Craig, very interesting. I will keep in mind for future République references.
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Hi Gracie – if I get PACSed without having lived in France for 12 months, do you know which type of visa I should apply for? Long-term stay visa of VPF?
Thanks!
Hi Merielle,
Great question. Since you need 12-months of proof of living with your PACSed partner, I would recommend applying for a long-term stay visitor visa (which we have a recent post on here) then spend the twelve months that grants you getting together the documents which prove your cohabitation, after which you could apply for a VPF. This is what I did, and I was able to get a VPF without any issues at the prefecture.
Hope that’s helpful and good luck on your journey,
Gracie
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Hi Stephen – Quick question: For the proof of medical insurance requirement for the PL application, is proof of coverage under Assurance Maladie / Ameli / Carte Vitale sufficient or do you need coverage with an insurance provider?
Thanks!
Ludivine
Of course Assurance Maladie is sufficient! You can have a mutuelle also but it won’t be asked for.
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Hi. Thanks for the great post. I’m currently in France with my 90 days set to expire the end of January. I’d like to apply for a long-stay visa but I don’t want to travel back to the US for an interview, if I can avoid it. Is there any way to complete the application process while actually in France before my 90 days is up? Thanks! –Ben
Ben
You can only apply from France if you have some existing visa status here. Since you don’t, you must apply from your country of residence.
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Hi! What taxes are you libel for in France under this type of passport?
Thanks!
Hi Sarah
Regular income taxes, just like everyone else who works here.
We have lived and worked in France for a decade, both on a CDI and as individual corporations (micro-entrepreneur, EURL), and you posit the choice quite nicely: More benefits == less flexibility/opportunity. The requirements on businesses here are…crushing. They are even more so on entrepreneurs and sole proprietors. We love our life here but it is indeed anti-business.
The “benefits” you list, if you add them up, are basically a hill of beans compared to the tax burden. Resto tickets are nice, vacation/holiday checks are nice, but that money is coming out of your salary. In effect, you are paying yourself to eat lunch out every day. Think about that. Same with the 5 weeks of vacation. You are paying for those weeks by earning half what you would make in the US for a similar job.
Now, the quality of life and security, for those lucky enough to have a CDI, is phenomenal. But if you want to change careers, to strike out on your own … well, good luck with that…
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I loved this article. So true! It took me several years to understand and appreciate the subtle differences in bread in France.
Thanks Carla!
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Thought provoking piece, good stuff.
Thanks Philip!
this is such a great post and so necessary. Thanks for the effort.
My pleasure!
Hey Stephen,
At the end of your entry, you wrote: “The French expect you to have money in a French account but as long as it’s not income earned in France your LTS visa won’t be in jeopardy.”
Can you clarify what you mean by as long as it’s not income earned in France? I have a professional libérale visa as you know.
Thanks,
Vince
Vince
While the French can assert that any income you earn anywhere in the world in a particular designation (let’s say, as a screenwriter) should be run through your French screenwriting business, there is no moral or legal way that they can compel or enforce this. Reframed another way, if you have a Bulgarian corporation that also does screenwriting, and a client pays that instead of your French prof lib business, that’s not going to be “income earned in France.”
Sorry – I wasn’t being clear –
I meant, why is “money not income earned in France” important not to put your LTS in jeopardy? Are you meaning if the LTS Visa is a visitor’s visa because in that case, you can’t be making money in France? As opposed to the Pro-Lib, which of course, I can make money as long as I’m not an official employee.
Vince
Visitors can’t earn money in France and for purposes of the prefecture they generally want to see money deposited into your French bank account as originating from you or your foreign (non-French) employer. But to make this less complicated/tricky I generally recommend that people should receive their remote income into a non-French account.
As far as Prof Lib, bombs away. Bring in all the money you want…with the resulting tax consequences. Just remember that if you have other entities who can also receive payments for that business you are fully in charge of how much income you want to bring in. Also remember VAT triggers the minute your French business hits 32,100€ in annual revenue. There’s an article on the site about that.
Hi!
Thank you for the very helpful article! I have a couple of questions.
If I want to apply for a visa “passeport talent – profession artistique et culturelle” and my husband will accompany me, 1,064.85€ gross per month and is it per person? So it should be doubled for two people or this amount is per family?
And can I apply for this type of visa if I am a freelance artist?
Thank you.
Hi Lena! Thanks for reading. The only person with a salary requirement here would be the one applying for a visa. If your visa is approved your husband will be able to apply for a VPF (vie privée familiale – a visa for spouses of long-stay visa holders) visa to join you. There are no salary requirements for this type of visa!
Yes, you can apply for the passeport talent as a freelance artist, if you meet all of the requirements. I offer consultations on just this type of thing. Feel free to get in touch if you’re interested!
Hi Molli,
Thank you very much for the answer! When we decide to take the next step, I will keep it in mind!
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Hi Ben –
I’ve applied for a long stay visitors visa on January 11th and will be arriving in France on April 25th. I made my appointment with VFS for Jan. 31st. (I’d mistakenly thought that “submitting the application” was different than “submitting the form” and assumed the actual application would be submitted by VFS on the 31st.)
Just to confirm, I need to submit a second application after the 25th and then delete first?
Thanks so much – sharing your experience is so valuable!
Regina
Hi Regina, just to recap you submitted the form/application on France-Visas on January 11th and the issue is that since you don’t plan to leave until April 25th that would be a bit more than the three months in advance in which you are supposed to submit the application.
To answer your question, yes I would submit a new form on or after January 25th, and delete the original. However before deleting it I would also print out the original and bring it with you to VFS in addition to the new one, just in the off chance the question comes up and you need to explain why did two. It probably won’t but this way you will be prepared. Good luck! I think you’ll be fine.
Perfect – thank you so much!
Great article, Molli! I feel like I now know where to start with my passeport talent! Thanks for sharing 🙂
Thanks for reading as always Vanessa! 🙂 Excited to chat again in a few days.
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Hi Stephen great blog thank you question I have a passport talent visa and want to bring my daughter to work for me in france is this possible as my employee? Thank you
Hello Lucy – jumping in here as I have some experience in applying for the passeport talent! How old is your daughter? Depending on your situation, you could bring her over under the vie privée et familiale (VPF) visa. If she gets approved for this visa she would be allowed to have any type of legal employment here in France. You can learn more about what you’ll need to provide to apply for this visa here. If you need some additional assistance on this, feel free to contact me here for a consultation 🙂
There are 4 very different ways to approach this project:
1 – If you have a French business i.e., having a Nº SIRET that is NOT! MICRO entreprise, you can go through the procedure to get her the right to work for you. Chances of success about zero and if it does the social charges are very expensive.
2 – VPF is really possible only with a minor and should be done through the “regroupement familial” procedure. It takes a very long time about 1 year before the visa is issued. If she is over 18 it does not work.
3 – she can always be a student in France, then depending on her long term goals, she chooses the school and the topic, getting a French master opens a lot of doors when it comes to immigration.
4 – the cheapest, fastest, and simplest is “visiteur” and you sponsor her for lodging and financial means. What is left is the health insurance policy she needs to get the visa. In a couple of months she is with you.
Bottom line the latter one gets her with you very easily and she gets nothing else. With student she gets a part-time right to work as an employee, and she can still be sponsored by you for the home & the money.
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Do you need to show a minimum income per month? I would just be starting out a business and don’t expect to generate much income until about 8 months in. What are they looking to see to determine if to renew this the following year?
Hi Arden, thanks for reading. There is no required minimum per month, but you are required to declare your income monthly as soon as you open your auto-entreprise (yes, you will need to declare even if you earn 0 euros). There is no visa connected to being an auto-entrepreneur, so you shouldn’t need to rely on it for any type of renewal appointment unless you have a passeport talent visa. In that case, the monthly minimum is greater than or equal to €1,122.18.
Per the URSAAF website you do not report any earnings for the first 90 days. After this waiting period, then you report either on a monthly basis or quarterly basis.
Hi Aleem, thanks for reading! You’re correct — you’ll notice that I mentioned that when you see the red ‘1’ next to “mes échéances en cours” you’re required to start paying. You won’t see that until after the first 90 days so thank you fo pointing that out!
With a visitor visa, after a year can you change the status to a freelance visa or if you get offered a work contract in France is it easy to change the visitor visa to a new status? I would like to learn french the first year then try to find a job.
Arden
This isn’t a good idea. Firstly, you cannot change out of a visitor visa until you have renewed it at least once and “served out” that renewal period. Also, sponsorship for a French job is in the tens of thousands of euros so unless you possess a unique and desirable skill set that no one else in the EU has, you’re not going to get a French job that easily.
As an aside, not every job in France requires French, interestingly enough. There are plenty in the tech sector, for example, where the company language is English. Same in banking.
When thinking about living abroad, not just in France, you have to ditch all the “normal” views you have about jobs, especially when you’re not a citizen.
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If I obtain a 90 day short stay visa while in my home country (USA), is it possible to apply for a long stay visa while in France?
No, because any visa under 12 months is nonrenewable, and to apply while in France, you need to have renewable/changeable status in France.
Hi Gracie, Will I be authorized to work after receiving a visa vie privée et familiale? Thank you for your answer
Hi Mary,
Yes, after you’ve received a VPF Visa you will indeed be authorized to work in France.
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Thank you for the continuous education about the French immigration! Following this article, I’d also like to share my own experience with my visa that recently happened in early 2022 when it came to getting medical assistance in France, and which almost turned in to a crisis!
If social workers, for instance, PASS at any public hospitals in France turn you down because of your long stay visitor visa, please contact the organization, “Comede” for immigration law assistance! I was rejected by PASS at 2 public hospitals & 3 other organizations because of my “Visiteur Visa” as it prints on my passport; but Comede helped solve my ordeal!
Please know according to “Arrêté Ministériel” (Ministerial Decree), foreigners with long stay visitor visa can get medical assistance from public hospitals in France, and you don’t have to return to your country for urgent care or chronicle disease medicines before your visa expires!
Bonjour Molli,
This August it’ll be my first time to re-apply (some say you cannot just renew) my Long Stay Visitor Visa. A French woman once mentioned that it’s not an easy thing to do, is it true??
Does that mean by going to a French class will make the re-application for my visa easier??
I’m working on getting into a French class via “Cours d’Adultes” by Mairie de Paris, I missed the registration deadline for last semester in 2021, this semester starts this week on Feb. 10 and I don’t know if I’m officially accepted yet. (I didn’t know that class until coming to France, and hence missed the deadline. People say refugees have the first place, and there are so many of them every year)
In case if I only take a semester (4-month-long, 2 semesters per year) of French class, or even none for my first year staying in France, will it make it difficult for me to re-apply for my visa??
Merci beaucoup! =)
Thanks for reading! My first question would be, how did you get your Long Stay Visa the first time around? Was it for school, work, to be with a family member?
If you choose not to take any sort of classes it wouldn’t make renewing your visa more difficult (unless you’re here on a student visa), but if you do, it’s just one more piece of evidence to show at the prefecture that you’re trying to integrate into French culture, which is always a good thing!
Bonjour Molli,
When I first applied, I told them my goal was to immigrate to France; but in the first 2-3 years I’ll focus on learning French. They said long stay visitor visa is the only one I could apply for.
I registered the French class of Cours d’Adultes by Mairie de Paris and went for the interview this week. Somehow the teacher only took in my application without interview or taking notes as he did for others, and he alone decides who may attend the class! Another teacher there once told me refugees & those who need to work are their top priority. I was treated obviously unfairly on interview; but no staff at that public school (Alésia) spoke English and my guess is no need to file a complaint for that to the school, or to Mairie de Paris!
In the article you recommend 2 schools to learn French outside the ring of Paris, are they expensive???? 4 months of Cours d’Adultes by Mairie de Paris is €300, and it’s a bargain to me….
I understand, but that still doesn’t answer my question 🙂 You can’t be approved for a visa simply because your goal is to immigrate to France! Are you working here? Are you in university? Is a family member here for either of those things and you’re here on a VPF visa?
When you renew your visa, you’ll have to provide proof that you have been doing what you originally came to France to do: proof that you’ve worked, gone to school, or lived with a family member – it all depends on what you were originally approved to do here.
As far as the price of the schools I reference, you’ll have to visit their websites to find out more about their prices. 300 euros for 4 months of classes is a steal – you’re right!
Bonjour Molli,
No, it was all what I told them upon my application….I wish to immigrate to France and learn about the beautiful French culture! The only restriction I was told was I would not be able to work in France.
Without a study, work or family in France, does it mean it will be more difficult for me to re-apply for long stay visitor visa??
Also, everyone needs to leave France to re-apply for visa of all kinds, right!?
I came from the States, no more have a home in the States, what is the nearest country for me to go to for re-applying my visa?
Merci beaucoup!
I see – I missed the “visitor” in your question. Sorry about that! No, you shouldn’t run into any difficulties renewing your visitor vias as long as you can prove that you can financially support yourself. You can renew in France, as long as you do so before your current visa expires. If your visa expires you need to leave France ASAP and return to your home country (where you hold citizenship). Even if you don’t have a physical address in the US anymore if you are a US citizen you would have to return to the States to reapply. If you are a citizen elsewhere, you would need to return there. Hope this helps!
Hey you mind helping me ? I have a friend that would love to study in France this year but has no clue how to , please respond , thank you very much.
Thank you so much for your in-depth piece. So helpful! The timing could not be better for me to read this as I have my convocation medicale with OFII in just over two weeks. Unfortunately it didn’t occur to me to get vaccination paperwork before leaving for Paris. I asked for my medical records from my current doctor but none of my childhood vaccines are part of that. Thanks for the heads up regarding being able to contact my high school or the option to do the antibody titer test which I will try to find here in France.
Did you end up and get a test in France? I am in the same situation where I brought my medical history but not my childhood vaccines and I am not sure if I need to do more before my appointment.
Bonjour Molli,
Merci for the info! “You can renew in France, as long as you do so before your current visa expires.” sounds too good to be true to me. Just one more question……
How much of “fairness” do public services in France practice with??
It was obviously a discrimination against my interview for my French class application! I sent inquiries (translated in French) either in person or in email to La Poste, Société Générale, BNP Parisba, Office Depot France….none of them bothered to reply! So, I guess there is no need for me to file a complaint to Mairie de Paris about being discriminated on my interview??
Merci beaucoup!
Unfortunately, that’s French customer service for you!
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I just recently got my medical convocation but was not indicated an x-ray center on my convocation. Anyone knows what this might mean or how I should go about getting an X-Ray Appointment?
Vince you’re fine – in Paris they do it at OFII.
Hi Stephon et al,
First thanks for the wealth of information here. In Paris, do they give X-ray during the same “visite médicale organisée par les service de l’OFII” summoned in the letter?
The convocation letter I received doesn’t mention any separate X-ray facility, and the “visite médicale organisée par les service de l’OFII” is scheduled at Montrouge 92120, immediately outside the boundary of the Paris city proper.
Hello Stephen — I’m not sure if others have ever asked this question… My wife and I are retired and plan to spend about six months living in Paris every year for the foreseeable future. We plan to spend approximately mid-April thru mid-July and September thru November each year in Paris and the other months in the U.S. We each have recently obtained one year “Long sejour temporaire” visas from the consulate in Washington DC (our permanent residence city). We did that because the Schengen 90-out-of-180-days rule does not allow us to stay in Paris as we wish. The note from the consulate accompanying the visas in our passports says “This type of visa exempts you from registering with the OFII and applying for a residence card. You have to leave France by the expiration of your visa.”
My question is: What should we do so that in 2023 (and years after) we can continue to come to Paris on the same 3 mo. + 3 mo. schedule? Should we apply for a NEW Long sejour temporaire visa in early 2023 to start when our current ones end, or is there a way to “renew” our current visas before they expire in mid-April 2023?
Your advise is welcome!
Hi David
Because you clicked the box for “6 months to 1 year” when applying for your visa, you got the OFII exemption, which also means you are ineligible for renewal.
I’m confused, however, because if you’re only looking to spend six months a year in France, and are willing to do “90 every 180” you have no need of a visa! You can take full advantage of the visa waiver program. If, however, you want to maintain your current schedule of mid-April through mid-July and September through November, you’ll need a visa, but if you get a renewable visa, you’re going to become a fiscal resident of France automatically, even if you are only on the ground six months out of the year. If you don’t want that financial complication, simply apply for this visa every year from America, knowing you are not going to get a renewal.
Hi Stephen — Thanks for your prompt answer to my question. Indeed, we want to stay in France for six months without becoming fiscal residents. So, it seems we did get the right visas. Am I correct to assume that we can re-apply (from the U.S.) every year for the foreseeable future for the same “non-renewable” visas? Thanks again for your guidance.
Yes, I think I would just encourage you to stay within a margin of error of the “183 day rule” and stay 175, just to give yourself a bit of breathing room should zealous tax authorities decide to really scrutinize. Since you will have a full year visa it can be tempting to stay longer (because you’ll be able to come and go as you please) but just be really careful here as I can attest as a French fiscal resident for almost a decade now, it’s an additional wrinkle to steer clear of if you aren’t here full-time.
Thanks again. I’ll be sure to count the days, not just the months. All the best to you.
Hello, thanks for sharing your experience. I was wondering if you might share the date (month) of when you had your appointment and then when you finally received the actual card? I have recently applied for a VPF (Jan 2022) and struggling to understand the timeline. I did not receive a recipisse on site and am wondering if the process has changed since you did yours or if it’s cause for concern. Thanks in advance!
Hi Claire,
Thanks for reading. When I renewed this VPF this year, I received in recipissé at the appointment in September and an SMS stating my carte de séjour was ready to be picked up in early November (which was impressively quick turn-around). Previously, for my first VPF, I’d had an appointment in October and picked up my carte de séjour in February. It is strange to me that you didn’t receive a recipissé on site. The only reason I can think not to issue one is if your current titre de séjour would be valid for several more months. Is this the case? Also, did they tell you if your request for a VPF had been approved?
Thanks Gracie – no they didn’t approve on site, in fact they gave me very little info. They said my file had to be reviewed by someone else ( the lady who looked through my docs did not say anything was missing or anything like that) and gave me an email address where I could request a recipisse. For my previous long stay CDS I had received the recipisse on site so I also found it odd not to receive anything. I am now needing to travel and have no document to prove that my case is being reviewed. My current CDS expired in December! Appreciate if you have anymore insight or advice? But I know each case is particular and so hard to find reliable info. May need to go the legal advice route! Thanks for sharing your story though, so helpful to read through other peoples experiences!
Dear Stephen,
Thank you for sharing this information. I am applying to be a freelance line producer in the film/commercial industry. I have 5-6 interested French clients willing to write letters of intent. I will draft these for them.
Three quick questions, please:
1- should the letters of intent from French companies be written in French, or OK if they’re in English?
2- would it be OK if all 6 were practically identical, or should I try to differentiate to keep each more original?
3- do the companies need to provide supporting documents (incorporation and tax documents) along with the letters? I understand this is only necessary if joining or partnering with a company on contract.
Thank you so very much,
Joaquin
Joaquin
Americans think “more is better” but that’s not how the French bureaucratic mind works. Have two, maybe three at the most. Have the additional ones on hand should you be asked for them. Do not give the French more than they ask for, ever.
The letters do not have to be differentiated, and certainly do not have to be in French, especially if you are applying from an English-speaking country.
The companies need to provide ZERO supporting documents.
I would like to answer slightly differently even though Stephen’s answer is right on when he states:
“Americans think “more is better” but that’s not how the French bureaucratic mind works. Have two, maybe three at the most. Have the additional ones on hand should you be asked for them. Do not give the French more than they ask for, ever.”
My experience is that the French administration demands “full proof” and this generates more than what an American expects to bring. So it is not a myth that French files have a lot of documents.
This said, all the documents in the file must serve a purpose. Adding the wrong document harms your changes of success and it only takes one. Stephen’s comment is spot on in that regard.
The French administration demands to be convinced that your annual billing is going to be at least 23,000€. So having letters and signed contract showing an annual billing of about 40,000€, does that job.
Depending on the clientele, as well as the services rendered the right number of letters can be between 3 and 7 or so. Each case is different.
The key is that those letters can all have the same format, pretty say the sae thing, as long as it matches the business plan and the financial projections.
The file must be very coherent, and delivers unified message.
So the letters of intent from French companies are written in French, why would it be in English?
So it is OK if all 6 were practically identical as long as the services they mention are coherent with the project and their own activities. BTW, back to Stephen’s comment if those 6 gross over 100,000€ and you never manage to make this kind of money, it looks fishy!
The companies as such do not need to provide supporting documents but your project can demand that you introduce those companies as being the heart of your clientele and you explain why.
I believed that the answer needed some nuances.
It’s always a benefit to have Jean around to offer the “director’s cut” notes 🙂
Thank you!
Hello! Thank you for this guide. I’m a freelance graphic designer, I work remotely – but am paid by a production payroll company. Which route would you recommend I take ? I’d be interested in citizenship but almost want to go the visitor route to make sure I want to commit fully to the country. Being that I don’t have my own business per se, but also can work as a graphic designer via Freelance and Fiver. Just unclear as to how to approach this, please advise.
Mel – you’re a remote worker and want to “try before you buy” — visitor is a good route.
I will have had 5 years of visitor status . Can I apply for carte de resident ?
Yes, but you need documented A2 competency and at least 5 years of French tax returns.
What taxes? Because I can’t and haven’t worked in France so I don’t pay taxes. Do you mean tax foncier and tax d’habitation?
Ariya
France, like the United States, requires its fiscal residents to FILE taxes every year, even if you don’t OWE taxes. I think there is an amnesty in which you can file for multiple back years with the French (the US only require the last three, I think, when you try to get back on track with them…ask an accountant to be sure) but you have absolutely ZERO chance of getting a carte de resident until you’re holding five years of tax returns in your hands.
If you read the articles on this site I frequently explain the need to file taxes and how valuable those tax returns are as administrative documents.
Again, owing taxes is not relevant here. It is filing them that matters.
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Thank you so much for this information, I’ve learned so much from reading your responses to the other questions! I have an art business that I operate with my partner. If he is a part of the business do we need to earn double the annual requirement or does he need a separate visa all together? Thanks again! Katherine
Katherine
I’ve heard of cases that were approved in which the amount earned was not quite double, but 80% of a double amount. In any case, double would be your safest bet.
Thanks so much!
Great read. Glad to see you found a place you regain your “center of metal gravity”.
Thanks man!
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Hello!
Thank you for this helpful article! I am in a similar situation now. Do you know if the Prefecture in the 17th still issues récépissés? I live in the 5th. Is there another Prefecture I should go to?
Thank you in advance!
Nicole
Left Bank and Right Bank go to different spots, but things have changed since Covid-19. It may make sense for you to just make an appointment to get a recipisse at the Prefecture.
Thank you very much, Jean and Stephen. It is clear.
Will it be a ‘problem’ if the letters from French companies are in English?
I’ve already sent the requests out, and received a couple back..
I would think they can be in English since you are submitting the request for the visa in the USA and those letters are sent to you while you live in the USA. One cannot assume that you read French and the content documents an agreement between the 2 of you.
Thank you! My thoughts too.
This is super informative! I still have a carte vitale from when I was a full time student then profession libérale which formally ended in December 2018 when I didn’t renew my PL because I returned to the US. I cancelled my mutuel at that time. My CV still works i found out when I went to a pharmacy there in July 2021 for a covid test. I’ll be requesting your assistance to apply for a long term carte de séjour next year, which I know requires insurance coverage. I’ve been paying tax every year on rental income of my Paris apartment since then until I return. Any idea if can state on my application that u have a CV for insurance?
Yes, I think you can. Just make a copy of the front and back as the proof of insurance.
Hi Stephen,
Just a note to let you know that I am praying for your dear father, Stephen Heiner. Next to my father and my Uncle Rod, I have not met a finer man than your dear father. He was a most humble soul, and I feel privileged to have met him. May you be the faithful son of such a fine man. Praying God is keeping His hand over you!
Yours in the Sacred Heart of Jesus,
Colleen M. Schroepfer
P.S.- I pray your mother and sisters are well!
Thanks Colleen! I appreciate the kind words and will pass on the regards to my family.
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I loved Alexa’s article. Very inspiring!!
Hi again Stephen,
I have gathered the documents for my application. There is one point that remains in question to me.
Under the <> form, one required document to provide if you are self-employed is: “proof of URSSAF (French body managing social security payments) registration”.
I do not plan to set up a company, but to work as an independent/freelance Line Producer in the commercial film industry. I would get hired and paid on a job-to-job basis through the Intermittent du Spectacle program.
I understand that by asking for proof of URSSAF they’d like me to prove that I’m on my way to getting set up for the type of work I propose I will do in France.
Curious to know how you suggest I set myself up here. Do I show proof of my Pole Emploi and Intermittent du Spectacle accounts? And do I go into detail about this on my cover letter, to show my understanding of it all.
Other than this, I believe I am ready to submit and get to that Consulate Interview!
Thank you!
Joaquin
On my second paragraph between was “List of documents to be submitted with an application for an Entrepreneur / independent professional” temporary residence permit.
The line got deleted.
Hi, Because I am considered a US person, I am having trouble investing my inheritance. I am a resident of France and am fiscally resident in France. Even so, with the FACTA laws, I am having a hard time finding a bank or something I can invest in. What to do?
Unfortunately, I can’t be of assistance here. You might consider moving that money to another EU jurisdiction where you have more flexibility to invest, like Malta or Cyprus or Liechtenstein.
I greatly appreciate the information conveyed here as well as detail of your responses to a wide variety of needs, issues, and experience. Will be rereading for sure. Thank you.
Thanks Frances!
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Hi Ben!
A little late to this post, but I had a question regarding the letter from the employer. My job is 100% remote with flexible hours, but I would rather not tell them I am moving to France. Is it possible to show the job offer letter for that requirement rather than asking my boss to sign a letter saying they know that I am moving?
Also, my new job starts in a month so I don’t have pay stubs from that employer. However, I have about 70% of the income needed in cash ($1250/mo x 8), a tax return from last year that shows I made more than enough from my last job, and obviously my job offer letter that shows my future salary. Would that be acceptable or should I wait until I have my first pay stub?
Thanks,
Kim
Hi Kim, there are several issues here. Straight away it raises a red flag that you are hesitant to tell your employer of your move. The issue goes far beyond whether they write you a letter, but rather, to the grave risk you are taking relying on them for your livelihood if your relocation is not something they would support. I don’t know the specifics of your situation, but I would think about this very carefully.
As for your financial situation, I think you would be well served to wait. From the French perspective the offer letter is a future probability, not a certainty. A paystub is tangible, and working a few months gives you the opportunity to grow your savings account as well. You are already close, but it’s better to present a strong position than appear marginal and end up with a denied application. Good luck!
I’m curious to know what the outcome of your visa request was. Did you show them the offer letter instead?
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What is the intensive French program you took that worked so well? Please share!
Hi AJ! It was the F.E.T.E. program at Université Paris Nanterre.
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Looks like a good move Stephen. Moret looks idyllic. Best of luck for your new life there.
Thanks Sunny!
Things haven’t changed for the better.
A debit card sent from my bank in the US took 6 weeks to get here this year.
I really can’t say if the problem is the French or US postal service. While the US isn’t tracking well, the French tend to leave things in some pile somewhere and if they don’t get to it, they just send everything back (at best) or dead letter it, or steal. (This is known in France & the employees can’t bze fired! There was a long article on the subject in Capital some years ago.)
A few years ago a credit card was sent by FedEx, and 9 days later I hadn’t received it. When the FedEx agent finally made it to my house, he explained that it had been holed up in some back office at Charles de Gaulle.
DHL is also pretty bad, as the delivery service is subcontracted to the French postal service which ranks its importance behind French postal priority.
And UPS is the pits.
My advice: If it isn’t important enough to send by FedEx, don’t send it!
Thanks Doli!
I wish I saw these posts before I used USPS. Going on a month and it says they attempted to deliver my package 1 time and now it’s sitting at a collection point. No one can provide the address of the collection point and the customer service agent said she would put a request and they have 5-25 days to respond. I’m beyond pissed, I typically use FedEx but decided to save a few dollars and this is what I get. SMDH
Sorry to hear that Kris. Anomalies lately. I’ve had a single letter reach me from the US in 7 days, but an RSVP sent by me. declining attendance at a wedding, sent on time for their catering deadline, didn’t arrive until 8 weeks after the wedding. And that was just a card. Thankfully the groom checked with me so I didn’t contribute to an unnecessary seat. But yeah, it’s a mess still.
Stephen,
It sounds lovely! Best wishes to you and if you’re ever near Memphis, let me know!
This sounds awesome! One of my concerns about moving to France is being able to rent an apartment. I’ve read enough about the process that it scares me. Your Airbnb idea is something g I’ll keep in mind.
I have a valid Florida license with motorcycle endorsement. Will France do a straight swap with the endorsement? Some have said i mist take a course all over again in France for the endorsement to be on the French license.
I have been having the endorsement for 35 years.
William
The French don’t care how long you’ve had the endorsement. If you want to ride a motorcycle more than 50hp, you’re going to need to take a 7 hour class. This is assuming that Florida is approved for a straight swap.
Thank you for this article it is so helpful especially the antibodies test to replace the vaccination record. You mentioned that Référence réglementaire (regulatory reference) number from a drop-down list and the number can be found somewhere on your visa in small print, but for my VSLTS visiteur visa there is no reference. The R311-3 5° is nowhere to be seen. And I can’t further proceed the validation process without this number. Please advise if you know anything about it. Thank you.
Hi Angie, I have been trying to do some research on this and I am wondering if they might have changed the number. Is the “R311-3 5°” still one of the options in the drop-down list? If not, do you see a “L426-20”? Failing that, are there any numbers in the list of options that might match something on your visa?
Thank you for your reply. It’s still the same number in the drop down but on my visa there is no number 😅 it says “visteur” and validate en linge. It’s very strange I couldn’t find any information. I did write the consultant and see what they say….
Please do let us know if you get a response!
Hi Angie! I’m having the same issue as you with the number not being anywhere on the visa. Did you ever figure it out?
Thanks!!
Hi all, I have the same exact issue with my visa. I did some digging and it looks like they’ve changed the numbers since May 1, 2021.
Before May 1, 2021, the CESEDA number was R311-3 5. After May 1, 2021, the CESEDA number is now R431-16 16.
Below are the sites I’m referencing. Does this look correct to anyone here? Since my visa was issued after May 1, 2021, (it was issued on June 26, 2022), I am thinking I need to put my “référence réglementaire” as CESEDA R431-16 16.
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000042806970
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000038189078/2022-08-23/
Hey Angie!
I am in France registered as a student but I also could not find the CESEDA number on my visa either.
I called: 0806 001 620 to get help (I think it is a french phone number so either call from a french phone or follow steps for calling from a foreign country).
The person ansering the phone only spoke french so he verified my phone number and had his colleuge call me back who spoke english.
She asked me the issue, I explained that the “Référence réglementaire” was not present on my visa. She promptly requested my email and then sent an explination as well as the solution.
I recieved the number that I needed.
Hope this helps!
Hi Angie,
I have the same issue, but my visa is for the Rech D’emploi. Did you hear back from the consultant? Thank you.
Thank you for this great write-up. I just received my visa, and in your write you say “you will be assigned an identifiant (personal ID number)” at the end of the online process. I just wanted to know, once I pay my 200€, do I instantly or very quickly (ie. within the next hour) get my French Foreign ID number?
I ask this because I am a little cynical, and can’t believe that the French would issue something that quickly! 😀
Thank you! And please keep it up! Your blog is a great resource.
Mine showed up within a few minutes after payment!
That number is automatically generated by the system.
You’re right about the slowness of their work efficiency.
You’ll discover more when you apply for a bank account.
(you may skip Société Generale, last year they told me that they don’t accept American clients)
Before coming to France, I was tired of Hollywood movies and Americans making fun of the slowness of the work efficiency here; but now I realize they were only telling the truth.
My neighbor had a extremely loud party until 6 am, I called 17 (to police), and I waited 90 minutes on phone to get to speak with someone who could take my report.
They said they would come; but they never did.
Also be careful, quite many businesses here, including Office Depot, do not accept returns even you have the receipt, it’s in a brand new condition and you just bought it within 7 days….
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Really good.
Thank you for reading. Really appreciate you taking the time to make a comment!
Great read cuz! I enjoy reading these from you as you share your life with the public. It helps me get to know more about my cousin that is a million miles away lol!
Hey Edgar,
Thank you for reading my article. Please share to show all the Filipinos what is indeed possible in creating and in finding your best life. The more we pass on the stories, the more people get to know Filipinos as a very distinct and rich culture! I appreciate your kind words. Thanks cuz, and mahalo to you, brah!
Great article, Stephen.
I am definitely thinner in France. As a New Yorker, I was used to getting around on foot and by bike. For me, the difference is that here in Paris the food is just healthier. Fewer additives. Fewer chemicals. Fewer hormones. And of course the smaller portion size.
Nice shout out to James Howard Kunstler. I read the Geography of Nowhere years ago, and it has always stuck with me. Will look for Home from Nowhere.
When you’re done with Home From Nowhere I’ve got more great stuff from him for you to read!
Would you consider helping me write my story for I LOVE your writing style & I LOVE everything you wrote starting with being born Flushing NY on 1969. Omg! Seriously, I feel like somehow we are twins separated at birth… ha! I landing at JFK on Dec 21, 1971 to my adoptive American family. I was almost 6 yrs old. & now I was an all American Girl!
Hey Leigh Ann,
Thanks so much for writing. You definitely should consider telling your story. I will be conducting a Creative Immersion workshop that can help you develop a writing habit and style that can tap into your authentic voice. DM me on FB and let’s explore.
I think a lot depends on the individual bureaucrat who handles the applcation. I didn’t submit my request for reciprocity (from MA) for a couple of years. Luckily I got a duplicate MA license before declaring residency. After submission I waited 18 months (pre-covid). I wrote twice to the agency without reply. I had essentially given up when voilà my French license came in the mail! This is the only time in eleven years I have had a problem with the supposedly notorious bureaucracy here. And actually it was not a problem, just an escargot’s pace.All of my few trips to the tax office have been handled politely and helpfully and professionally. Ditto insurance and medical care. Of course there are a few differences in the formalities between USA and France, but that is to be expected. À mon avis, be respectful and you will be treated respectfully.
KP this is awesome that this happened for you, but you are very much the exception. I’ve never heard of such a thing in ten years of answering questions and hearing feedback about this specific issue. The French bureaucracy is very rule-driven and this one-year rule is in place for a particular reason.
Hey Molli – My small business would be focused mainly on coaching though I would also be making money for freelance writing. I was thinking of “creatively” combining the two into one business? What are your thoughts?
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Loved reading you Luke Middleton, you do have a slight advantage having lived in France as a young in. Glad France has drawn you back. Adventure awaits
Merci ! Had I been able to foresee the future as a young child, I would have nurtured those advantages to greater effect!
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I am not sure if you have the answer, but maybe you can direct me to who might! I have been working for the US Department of Defense in Germany for the past 7 years and in Japan for 14 years before that. I have a California Driver’s license which I can easily change to Colorado (parent’s residence) to have reciprocity with France, but I will not have proof of 6 months of residency as I am applying for my French long-term VISA through the Frankfurt French Embassy. I have a ‘special’ driver’s license that allows me to live and drive in Germany and the EU, but it is not an EU driver’s license. Once I leave service, I become a tourist in the EU and all special privileges, including the special driver’s license, fall away. My question is, do you know who I can contact to see what would be best in my situation? Do I go the Colorado route, or is my driving record in Germany good enough? Thank you for providing this platform for questions and solutions!
Debi
I don’t know which is the “best” way to do this, but if your German license doesn’t have an expiration, expires after you leave the service, simply swap it for a French one.
If you don’t get to keep that license when you leave, then go the CO route, as long as CO is a swappable state.
Stephen, Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts! I guessed this might be the best route, to have two plans of attack, but your confirmation makes me feel better about my prospects of avoiding the French Driving Lesson and Test route. I must be honest, the paperwork piles and hurtles I will be jumping are making me question my decision to live in France. I sure hope I don’t have rose-colored glasses on! Again, thank you.
So well written and relatable. Been living in France for 8 months and can relate to each of these experiences. The language is coming slowly and every little bit has helped. Beginning to get over the fear of being spoken to at the stores, cafes & bakeries. Often I just guess at the questions being asked now as I can pick up a word or two. If I get a confused look than I realize that I’ve guessed wrong & have given a strange response. All part of the learning experience! Really miss the feeling of wonder from those first weeks of wandering and taking it all in. Though I still feel like pinching myself often as it is just so beautiful and full of life being shared over a glass or plate of something delicious!
Thank you for sharing. Your comment about being in wonder at the beginning is so true. To new arrivals I would say to savor those emotions to the fullest; make notes in your journal so you can re-experience them later; take a photo of that little alleyway that will seem so mundane a year from now, but which at first appearance made you gasp. More profound pleasures come in time but the first encounter is a kind of rapture that you only have once!
Wow – I really enjoyed reading about your adventure! Mine was very similar, having moved from Canada to the Côte d’Azur 6 years ago as a retiree. It was all worth it and hubby and I couldn’t be happier. It really does get easier. I wish you all the best and look forward to reading more of your stories.
Hey Caryl,
Thank you for reading and commenting! I’m six months in and well, it’s a roller coaster, but I love living in Paris. Thank you for the best wishes.
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Hi there,
Thank you for this post!
We’ve applied for the VLS-TS and are developing and working on independent projects but don’t have a business license. We have more than enough assets to show proof of enough resources to cover all expenses during our trip, however. What do we supply instead of a letter from an employer or business license?
Bank statements and other accounts (savings, 401k, etc) that show those assets.
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Loved this post! So glad everything worked out for you. We had similar story when we moved to the areas of Lyon in 2013 and Nice in 2016.
Note that the link for garant.me is incorrect. It should be: https://garantme.fr
Janie thanks for the catch! We’ve amended accordingly.
You’re welcome!
Janie
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This is so good and so funny. I am considering moving to Paris for an expat assignment. As I walk around the city orienting myself, I’m having the same experience! Thanks for the laugh and reassurance that this is normal.
Congrats! One thing to note is that lease terms and rental laws are more favorable to renters in the case of unfurnished apartments. We landed in a furnished apartment, but may end up moving if we can find an unfurnished apartment that is comparable.
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Thanks for the helpful information! We have our Certificat de Controle Medicale now but how to do we submit them to our local prefecture in Paris ? I’m not sure if it’s our arrondissement’s prefecture or the main one on cite. How do you make an appointment?
Hi Erin, you don’t need to submit your Certificat de Controle Medical to the prefecture at this point. Just hold on to it, and at the end of your first year in France when you go to renew your residence permit, then you will present it to the prefecture as part of that process.
Hi Luke, Thanks for getting back to me! We only have 10 days left in Paris so we feel like we are running out of time. We have a 6 month VLS-T (we didn’t realize we’d want to stay longer than 6 months when we applied) but we were still asked to the medical exam 3 weeks before our visa expired (we don’t have the two months that the visa renewal process asks for). I was under the impression that it was the wrong type of visa to be renewed in France since it’s not a VLS-TS. Our maybe we can use the same Certificat de Controle Medical to renew our next visa if we apply from the U.S. again this summer? Do you have any idea?
VLS-T –Long stay temporary visa
VLS-TS — Long-stay visa equivalent to a residence permit
In that case again I think there is nothing else you need to do with your Medical Certificate. Your visa is temporary and is coming to an end, so that is that. It does seem a bit silly you had to get a physical right before you’re leaving anyway, but no doubt that’s just an ironic side effect of the slow moving nature of things.
I can’t predict what will happen if you return a second time on a VLS-TS, but my guess is the bureaucracy will have you go through the same physical again. It would probably be for the best, since by the time you came up for renewal on your one-year visa your existing medical controle would be quite old and it would be a shame for a renewal to be denied on that basis.
I wish you good luck in getting the VLS-TS back in the States, and may the process go quickly! The good news is when you return you will be old hands at all this stuff.
Thanks Luke! You have really put me at ease. I totally agree with you about at least knowing what to expect next time. Fingers crossed that they don’t totally change the process in the meantime. Thanks for the Blog!
Why do you say the visitor visa isn’t a path to citizenship? If I renew it enough and get 5 years….
There’s no “five year,” I’m guessing you mean the ten year card. But a ten year card isn’t a path to citizenship. You need to be a tax-paying citizen and as a visitor you’re only a tax-filing citizen. I’m happy to be proven wrong but I don’t know anyone who has obtained citizenship on a visitor visa.
Thank you very much for your exhaustive answers and deep insight into the subject matter. Is this 10 year card renewable? If yes, for how many years? Does it mean permanent residency? Also, if one gets a 10 year card, can one go to any other Schengen country and stay there and try to get residency of that country by naturalisation? What are the options with “Visitor” visa to obtain permanent residency of France or any other Schengen country as thought above?
Manish
The ten-year card is renewable for a ten-year term, as many ten-year terms as you need. 🙂
I don’t believe there’s any such thing as “permanent residency” worldwide, as it always comes with stipulations, so how can it be called “permanent”? But it does provide long-term residency.
You cannot be eligible for naturalization in another EU country just by using your residence card from France. Anyone, including EU citizens, have to go through the same process as anyone else if they wish to gain nationality in another country.
The visitor visa is even more limited than the 10 year card (Carte de Resident) as it does not really envision your living outside of France ever, whereas the Carte de Resident explicitly permits it, up to three years within your ten year period.
Short story? If you want citizenship in another country, you cannot use a French residence card, even a nice fat ten year card, as the basis for it. The right to live and work in France does not give you the right to live and work in Germany. You’re thinking of EU citizenship, not EU residence.
Thank you for your detailed reply. When I was saying shift to another EU country, I didn’t mean work there. Let me ask it in a different way:
If I have 10 year card, can I go to another EU country, register myself there with police station and start staying there as financially independent person (Without working in that country), or digital nomad or under any other program allowed by that country? What I mean to say is, will I be treated like EU citizen/resident for various VISA programs in other EU countries?
Excuse me if I sound foolish.
Manish
The short answer is you apply for visas from whatever country you have residence in. So this card gives you status to apply in France for a work visa in Germany, for example. And yes, you can hold multiple statuses in multiple countries but that gets complicated quickly. I’ve held Swiss work permits while holding French visitor status but those were only 3 month Swiss permits each time.
An American client a couple years ago was in Germany on a work permit and he applied for a French PL visa from Germany because he had residence there. But having a French ten year card does not give you status in Germany such that you could apply for other visas from Germany, even should you choose to live in Berlin.
Unsolicited answer: if you have what it takes to get a French ten year card, you should immediately apply for citizenship after you receive it and wait it out. Then you don’t have to worry about what you mention…you can roam around Schengen to your heart’s content (but you’ll still need to be tax-domiciled somewhere).
I feel like you are interpreting the card to be a sub-passport (it’s not) when it’s really just a muscular French residence and work permit.
I can’t really help you if I don’t know what your long term plans are. If you want to schedule a consultation I’d be happy to help further. 😉
I have already sent my details. Yes I would like to schedule a consultation.
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Great info. Thanks. Quick questions. Do kids need to do this? We have a 10 and a 12 year old and it was unclear. Thanks, John
Hi John, I don’t have children so I can’t speak from personal experience. But you must certainly register their visas along with your own on the OFII website as described at the beginning of this article, and then you can see what instructions they give you with regards to medicals for the children.
My VLS-TS, long stay visa validation, was registered, and the fee paid on 27 March 2022. I have not yet received a text, email or letter from OFII for my medical visit. Is this an inordinate amount of time to wait for a notice, and if so, is there any individual or office that I can contact for clarification? I would like to begin the application process for a Carte de Séjour as soon as possible.
Thank you, Susan
Hi Susan, four months does seem like an excessive delay but then again this is France and it’s also summer.
I would certainly log into your OFII account and make sure a convocation letter might not have been attached to your request.
If not, you can try the “Nous Contacter” option at the top of the screen, “La validation de votre VLS-TS” for the drop-down “Votre question concerne,” and then fill out the rest of the form and hope for a reply.
Hi Stephen, all reading this.
Does anyone have any suggestions of bonafide european health insurance companies which offer affordable cover to meet minimum visitor visa requirements of 30,000 euros? I’ve come across various fake sites and all the real ones seem to cover up to 1000,000’s and charge a fortune!? Any suggestions very welcome! THanks
Lucy
I consistently recommend Cigna Global, as coming from a reputable company, and one of the companies I first used almost a decade ago now when I came to France.
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Congratulations! Great work!
Thanks!
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Thank you so much for this, SO helpful.
I’m in Marseille and I just received my convocation letter vis email. Yay!
I have two questions if anyone can help:
1. I did the immunization titre and I have immunity for everything except Hep B. Will that be an issue?
2. Regarding the maternity record, I’ve had three births. Last time I did this in exam 2016, the physician just asked me a bunch of questions about my births. Anyone know what exactly they need? And do you think it’s a problem if I don’t have records? I had kids quite a while ago: in 1986, 1990 and 1993.
Hi Regina, I never saw an official list of what vaccinations they wanted so I can’t say whether they will want Hep B or not. Just go with what you have and if they want you to get something else I’m sure they’ll tell you.
As for the information about maternity records, again I can’t say, and again I suspect the official requirements are nowhere posted, if they even exist. As usual bring as much information or documentation as you have and see how far it gets you.
Looks like I have to get my own chest X-Ray here in Marseille, so maybe I’ll just see if I can get a Hep B vaccine at the same time.
I think I have some gynocological records that may have my pregnancies information somewhere. I’ll see what I can dig up and just take what I have.
Thank you so much – your advice is invaluable!
I invite you to return and comment here with what your experience ends up being in the matter of vaccines and birth records, as the knowledge would be of great interest to others!
Sure – I’d be happy to!
My appointment is the 29th of August.
How did the appointment go?
Oh so sorry I never followed up as promised!
My appointment went fine – easy peasy. It was a year ago and my memory is fuzzy but I’m pretty sure the doc didn’t really didn’t ask me for anything except my chest X-ray. She asked if I was a smoker because the X-Ray showed some stuff in the lungs; I’m not but I had recovered from a mild COVID case a couple months beforehand so she chalked it up to that.
I got the impression that the whole thing was simply a formality and maybe an excuse to collect the 200€ fee but I can cynical that way.
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Hello!
I have a rather urgent question pertaining to your article.
I will have been resident in France come August 1, 2022. My International License expired on June 30, 2022.
I need to rent a car and can see that I will need to get a French license however! my license is from Washington ( a non-reciprocating State. What can I do if done before August 1, 2022?? Would love your immediate reply as it is time sensitive!
Kindly,
Cristiaana
You do not need a French license to rent a car.
There’s nothing you can do in the next seven days to swap a license.
The question is though, if you have been residence in France for over a year, you do in fact need a French license to rent a car. Is that true or not?
Thank you for your reply!
According to the law, yes.
But in reality, there’s no way for a private rental car company to know what your residence or immigration status is in France.
Hence why I’ve rented cars more than a dozen times since I’ve lived in France and only once have I been asked for an EDF when they realized I live in France.
I don’t see any practical way for a car rental company, who wants your money, to ask where you live, then how long you’ve lived there, then ask why you haven’t swapped your license. I’ve never been asked that question and I rented a car as recently as January.
Hand over a US passport and DL and smile. 🙂
Love that! However… since I’m renting long term from Leclerc here is what they require…
The credit card that was used for the reservation (in the name AND first name of the Tenant)
Your valid driving license (and accompanied by a sworn translation of less than 6 months in the case of an international license)
Your identity document or passport
A proof of address less than 3 months old.
Thoughts?
Cristiaana
I don’t see a single document on that list that has anything to do with how long you have been in France.
In fact, if you bring your passport instead of your carte de sejour you will have precisely zero immigration documents with you.
Thank you Stephen, what about the ‘accompanied by a sworn translation of less than 6 months in the case of an international license’ bit? Is that a big procedure or, how is that done?
Sorry to be dragging this out!
Cristiaana
Go get an official translation of your driver’s license. Not a big procedure. Just need to find an official translator near you or one who can do it online via a photo of your license.
Perfect! Thanks a million for working through all of this with me Stephen!
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Dear writer of this post,
I’m super interested in joining your chess club!is it still active?and if so, could you please guide me on how I can join?
Thank you in advance and may your days be filled with checkmates, in your favor, of course!
Best,
Sara
Sara
Alas it’s no longer active. Hard to match people of near skill level!
Hello,
Thank you so much for the very helpful article.
I’m in France with a long stay visa, and hoping to switch it to Passport Talent as an artist. I considered about PL visa too, but if am allowed to apply for this at the prefecture while I’m in France (if I understood this article right ), it’d suit my situation. Now I’m wondering when is it possible to apply for it? Is it ok to do so more than 2 months before the current visitor visa expires?
This is my first year I’m in France.
Nicole
You can’t switch to one of these visas right away from visitor. You need to renew once as a visitor, and then when your next renewal comes up you can apply for a change of status to either PL or Talent.
Remember you can always apply from a country in which you have residence, and since you live in France now and hold a renewable titre, there’s no question of having to go back to a home country to renew or change status.
Dear Mr Heiner,
For clarification from you response above —changing from a visitor visa to passport talent, can one do this right after getting the 1st visitor visa renewal, or does the person need to wait until @3-4months prior to the visitor ending?
The concern being if the passport talent visa application is rejected, then the applicant does not have a visitor visa to fall back on and must vacate France. Or does the rejected applicant reapply for their former visitor visa?
Thank you Sir.
Sara
You must have a sufficiently grave reason to renew early. The French administration thinks something to the effect of “why are you renewing early, this makes no sense…”
You’re going to apply for something called a “change of status” which means you’re asking for a visa change. In the slim chance your visa application is rejected (would only happen if you failed to prepare well) then the “change of status” would be rejected and you would be able to simply renew your current visa.
Thank you kindly Mr Heiner.
Moret-sur-Loing is so lovely! This was a great read on the realities of a post-lock down world! Thanks for sharing 🙂
Thanks Vanessa!
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Hi
I’m confused about toilets. Which is preferable electric or non?
You do NOT wan electric. They grind what goes in to use normal-sized evacuation pipes. You need to be very careful or they get stuffed up. In any case they need to be changed every decade or so, and are expensive. They exist in buildings where normal toilet plumbing was never put in, or in an area where normal toilet plumbing was not planned for. To be avoided!
I understand they need to be avoided. But I also read they look like normal toilets. So how does one tell one from the other to avoid the electric toilet?
Yes, as far as the seat and the reservoir re concerned, there is no differene. First, you ask. Nobody has ever lied to me on the subject. If you are visiting the apartment, look near the floor behind the toilet. If it is a sanibroyeur, there will be an electric cord going into the wall.
Hi, continuing on with the proof of potential clients theme, it is a deal breaker if I don’t have any? I feel confident that I will find some, but as my business one that I am proposing to start once I get a visa and move to France, I don’t have any clients yet.
Thanks,
Tessa
Tessa
The business needs to show some sort of base of viability out of France. It doesn’t mean that all of your clients need to come from there, it just makes it more palatable to the French if at least one client comes from there. Obviously, if you’re selling hats to Eskimos, that’s one thing, but most businesses should have the ability to be marketed to the French in some way.
I fully admit that my approach is a lot more conservative that what Stephen states.
This is the legal logic the French administration uses regarding this immigration.
“the applicant already has his/her clientele waiting in France, so he/she deserves the immigration visa to start working for these clients.”
So the goal is to “fake” a French clientele and this is where I get closer to Stephen’s statement.
My experience is that one submits this kind of visas after having being in France several times and know people there. All the business plans I help with include a section as a teacher and as a coach. There, French friends and acquaintances can state they need your teaching or coaching without even actually using your services once you are in France.
At the same time, and Stephen is totally on target, the business plan describes a panel of services fully tailored for a French clientele and therefore it should be possible to add emails exchanges, describing online conversations showing the pertinence of the project.
In short if the “French clientele” is not properly documented, there is zero chances of success. At the same, the said “French clientele” can feel 90% fake closer to a story board. as long as the story is believable it works!
great perspective and points as always, Jean.
Hi Jean/Stephen, your answers are really helpful especially as my situation will be similar, however my business will be aimed predominantly at English-speaking tourists rather than French clientele do you have any suggestions in this situation? Thanks in advance
Melanie
I’ve helped someone who got approved for a business that offers fancy picnics in Paris to tourists. You have to realize that this is considered “French” not because you’re aiming it at French people, but that the business is actually doing commerce physically in France. It doesn’t matter to the French that these people don’t live here. Imagine if you could only start a business that French residents or citizens used!
Hope that helps.
There is a slight misunderstanding here. An American tourist in Paris is de facto a “French client” as he/she consumes the service/produit in France. This said it complicates a tad more the presentation of the clientele in the business plan but not that more.
So you will have a French business because you will have “French clients” using your “French services/products” while being American tourists staying in France for a short period of time. So think “French consumers”!!
Thanks both of you for your replies. Again very helpful, I guess though my main concern is similar to Tessa’s about how to provide supporting letters from this type of client – would letters of support from tourist offices and tourism businesses be a good alternative?
About the way to get the proper documentation to define the so-called “French clientele”, yes agencies are a possibility but probably not enough. To help you at this stage I need to dive in your project. I would check if the French merchants with whom you can have referral contracts, commission base agreements would just as good if not better and you make a mix of both.
That makes sense. This has clarified for me I need to focus more on building contacts and prospective collaborations as I’d overlooked this somewhat but can see this will make my plan much more viable. Thanks so much for the advice.
Thank you for this! Do you by any chance know whether the INSEE number comes together in the letter with the SIRET one? I’ve been told I will need it too when signing a contract to provide my freelancing services to a company. But I´ve been looking online and I’m not sure how one is supposed to get that one…
Hello Carlos! The INSEE number is your SIRET. That’s the only number you’ll need when working as a freelancer. You can put it at the bottom of your invoices so that whichever business you’re working with has it on file.
Hi there, so glad you found a great place in a great part of town. curious if you might be able to share how you were able to get your visa approved without having accommodation set up in advance? any info here would be super helpful as i’m nearing my application date! thank you so much!!!
Kyle
You cannot get your visa approved without having accommodation set up in advance. It doesn’t have to be a one-year lease. I know the case of one gentleman who was approved with a hotel address.
Hey, how’s auto-entrepreneur different from PL? Thanks!
Hi Nora! So auto-entrepreneur is not a visa status, while PL is. An auto-entreprise is a type of business similar to a sole proprietor in the US, and the PL visa enables you to open a business in France. The two are not directly related. I hope this helps!
Hi there! My husband and I are preparing to apply for a VLS in a year or so and your story is giving me hope! I work remotely like you and this is the first time I’ve heard that remote work for a U.S. employer is sanctioned for this type of visa – you haven’t had anyone tell you that this places your employer at risk of having to register in the country or adhere to French labor laws? Do you now pay French social charges/other taxes on your income from the U.S.? And lastly – my husband won’t be working but we were thinking of renting out part of our property sort of as a gite – I assume this would be precluded since it’s a “professional activity.” Do you think he should instead apply for a profession liberal visa? Thanks so much!
Hi Anna, for the purposes of the visitor visa there is no connection created between the foreign employer and the French system. French labor laws don’t apply to a foreign company that has no relation to France other than one of its employees just decided to live there. If your employer was doing business in France it would be a different matter, but then you would also be applying for a different visa.
As for taxes, as a resident of France you will have to declare your foreign income to the French government (we would say “file” in the US), but you will neither owe nor pay French income taxes. If you did owe or pay, that would imply doing business in France, which would violate the terms of your visitor visa. Of course you will also still need to file (and pay) federal income taxes in the US. As an American with foreign residency you will likely be able to take advantage of the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE) in the US tax code, which is something you should read about.
The full extent of tax ramifications can be complicated and vary from person to person, it is worth seeking out professional advice on both sides of the Atlantic.
I would advise you join the TAIP Facebook group to pose your question about wanting to rent your French property.
Just keep in mind if you plan on staying longer term or if your stay turns into long term residence & even nationality, working remotely on a long stay visitors visa will be a big hindrance to any longer term CDS or nationality being granted.
This type of toilet is called a “Sanibroyeur”. The question to ask is: En ce qui concerne la toilette, est-ce normal ou un sani-broyeur?” (Does the apartment have a normal toilet or a sanibroyeur?”
Hi Stephen
Enjoyed reading your experience. Could you please drop me a note with the tutors info please.
Stephanie
I’ll send this to you via email as I’m not sure he will want his info out in a comments section.
What about declaring taxes in the US? You can’t just NOT declare taxes in the States because you do in France.
Fred
Is there anything in the article that implies NOT declaring taxes in the US?
I was PACsd in Francé with my partner Oct 25 2022
We applied and have appointment with VFas global in Miami Nov 21 2022 to apply for long stay visa.
Has anyone gone this route ? What ought we to expect? Thanks
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Depends on your Visa… With a Carte de séjour “Visiteur”, it’s a big no-no says our French/American accountant, whether or not you’re officially a French tax resident (i.e., to a 1st approximation, in France more than 180 days/year). Part of the application requires signing a document that says one won’t work. If your butt is in France, then you’re working in France. This is typically the visa = residency card that a ‘retired’ person applies for, annually, for 5 years, then can apply for a 10 year card which, ironically, permits one to work. Working on vacation doesn’t count because you’re not a resident.
Lauri
While I would hesitate to correct a professional, especially someone who works with both France and the US, as I point out in the article, I’m relying on the French government’s actions, not an individual accountant’s advice, for my opinion on this matter. Given that the French government routinely approves visitor visas in which someone says they are working remotely, it seems that your “butt” theory doesn’t “sit” with them. 🙂
I also don’t accept your “doesn’t count” premise in which a visitor to France has more rights than a resident of France when it comes to work…
This is one thing that confuses me: can the consulates really have a completely erroneous understanding of the law to the degree that they consistently advise visa applicants that this is legal and above board? Surely not! If not, why do people consistently say that it is illegal? Their argument is that consulates aren’t on the same page as the tax authorities, but how on earth can that be? They’re government agencies, surely. It would be incredibly damaging to people’s futures to explicitly grant them the rght to do something which is actually illegal. It doesn’t really make sense.
Jackie
There you are showing your Anglo-Saxon bias. Why “surely not?” Governments all around the world have instances in which agencies clash with each other. In the US the Federal law considers marijuana businesses illegal, meaning that any legal marijuana businesses cannot benefit from the legal tax deductions at the federal level, even though those businesses are legal at the state level.
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I have been in France a little over a year and I have just received my residency permit. I am from the United States. I am wanting to start a concierge business. It is not a tour guide. It is just someone that will meet women at the airport, I’ll set them up an Airbnb and show them around town, my daughter is going to do the same thing in London although she still resides in the United States, the company is going to be in her name and no money will transfer to me. The money will not be commingling in any account. This is a way for her to earn money and for me to just get out and meet people and have a good time , I have been told that I will be kicked out of France and my visa will be revoked since I am not taking jobs away from the French. I am not making money here in France, I am just wanting to know what your thoughts are
Jan
I assume you are on a visitor visa.
While I don’t accept the “taking away jobs from the French” narrative, as the French would never do what you are proposing, this is not what I am talking about in this article, which is a remote job.
If you don’t have a visa classification that allows you to have a business doing what you’re proposing, you’re playing with fire.
If you want to get out and have a good time, volunteer:
https://theamericaninparis.com/2016/05/31/guest-post-paris-greeters-by-craig-ziegler/
or join meetup:
https://theamericaninparis.com/2015/12/04/meetup-a-great-way-to-build-a-core-of-diverse-friends/
You won’t get kicked out right away, insofar as there are no immigration police roaming around randomly asking Americans if they have started illegal businesses, but this is a bad idea if you plan to live long term in France. Keep it legal. What you’re proposing, by the terms of a visitor visa, isn’t.
PS The English are WAY stricter about this than the French are. It is a TERRIBLE idea for your daughter to be doing something like this in London under the radar. Register a business and make it legal!
Hi
I’m not sure when this article on meetups was first published here. I’d like to join a group for over 50 if there’s such a thing. Which do you take part or recommend?
Best,
Stephanie
Stephanie
If you browse through Meetup you can find groups. I suspect there is just such a group for over 50s.
I’m in a couple nerdy ones, on Shakespeare and on Great Books.
I couldn’t find any literature in the French tax website that mentioned that visitors on a long-term visa didn’t have to pay taxes. Any help to point out to the source? Thanks!
Lucas there’s no source to point to because no one is saying that long-term visa holders “don’t have to pay taxes.”
Let me be clear, you must file taxes.
Whether you pay taxes is entirely due to your own situation.
Given that most people pay taxes on their income, if your income is not earned in France, it is reported, but not taxed, ostensibly because you’ve already been taxed for it in your home jurisdiction (and can prove it).
But some long-term visitors may own real estate in France and may indeed gain some money that way and yes, they would have to pay taxes.
Once again, the headline points to the reality: if you’re a fiscal resident of France you have to ***file*** taxes, period. Whether you ***pay*** taxes is an entirely personal issue, as everyone’s tax filings will be different.
I would like to follow up on your post.
Scenario: American living in France full-time (fiscal resident) with a Long-Term Visitor’s Visa and working as a 1099 independent contractor for a USA company (no French presence for company). As a 1099 contractor, no taxes are withheld from pay in USA. Would taxes be paid to French government and then claimed as foreign tax credit in USA? Or would taxes be paid to IRS and then reported on French income declaration? Thank you in advance.
Judy
I can’t give advice on your individual tax situation. I would defer to your accountant. If you don’t have one I’m happy to connect you with one.
The scenario you propose would invalidate your visitor visa as you are now asserting that you are “working in France” which is not permitted by your visitor visa.
I totally understand that personalized advice is a no-no. However, I am confused because I read that remote work IS allowed on visitor’s visa. Also read your above reply dated Feb 7th, which would indicate that the tax would be paid in USA.
Yes, remote work is allowed, but if you declare income in France from work, then you’ve now taken what is an acceptable practice, working remotely, being paid in another country, and creating a weird hybrid, working remotely, being paid in France.
To clarify, my position is: if you wish to work remotely, get paid in that country and file taxes in that country. You will still have to file taxes in France, in which you include your worldwide income, which will include your already-taxed-and-paid-for income from America.
I realize I am a little late to this party but I was wondering what the best way to obtain a long term French visa is. I am a 33 year old secondary school teacher who has a Master’s in education from an American University. My American dad has recently retired to France (Montpelier) with a retiree visa. And perhaps most important is my girlfriend lives in Rueil-Malmaison. I am thinking that I should try to get into a French intensive language program but they will not be accepting applications for sometime. Any suggestions you could give me on these topics would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Christopher, I would suggest that you wait it out and enroll in an intensive French language program. You could try to apply to a French university if you’re keen to go for another master’s degree or even your Ph.D., but you do need to have a B2 French level in order to be accepted into a public university as a foreigner. You could also try to do this through a public university without any language requirements, but it is a lot more expensive. That said in both of these situations you’ll have to wait to be able to enroll for the fall semester as well, or perhaps you could find a summer program. This may not be the answer you were hoping for but I hope this helps!
I’m hoping to move to France for under 12 months and work remotely for a UK org while I’m there. My employers are ok with it, and I’ve got no plans to extend my stay past the 9-12 months.
Everything I’ve read seems to indicate that I’ll either have to use a wage portage company or set up as a freelancer which would be a huge faff!
I’m excited to hear that the visitor visa actually seems fine – but do you have any sources for the French govt routinely approving these sorts of applications for visitor visas? It just contradicts everything else I’ve read so would love some more info!
Ellen the source is my unbroken line of remote-working, French visitor-visa-gaining clients since 2014. I’ve never had someone denied over this issue. Indeed, these people often explicitly declare they will be remote working.
Hi
were you successful in what you did and did you end up doing a French tax return? I am an EU citizen in France right now and have worked 4 months remotely. I am getting really panicked about having done something wrong and my employer being fined. Despite being in France under 183 days.
Laura
Please stop listening to the crazy people online. You are an EU citizen which means you have the right to live and work in France, remotely or otherwise. You are not someone who needs to be reading an article aimed at people who, unlike you, do not possess EU citizenship.
Hi Molli,
Thank you for this wonderful article, it’s been immensely helpful. I’m here on ‘Talent Passport Familie’ i.e my wife’s on Talent Passport and I’ve moved here as her dependant. The Visa allows me to work and undertake any professional activity. Can I setup an auto-entrepreneur business with this visa?
Thank you!
Hi Alvin! Thanks for reading. You can absolutely sign up to be an auto-entrepreneur with your VPF visa. I have worked with other clients in your exact situation and they didn’t run into any issues – you’re right, with your visa you’re allowed to work and undertake any professional activity.
Excellent article. I have had numerous battles on (nameless) FB groups over this issue. I have read of numerous people going to the consulate (in London in this case) applying for the auto-entrepreneur visa who have been told by consular staff that as their clients are all in the UK, they should apply for the visitor visa. They have been asked to write a clear letter stating their work is remote for a UK employer and that no money will be exchanged in France. One man queried this and it was referred higher up in the consulate – he then received an email the following day stating this was indeed fine and above board.
This is something I too would like to do. But I have a few concerns. My main concern is would there come a point where you are legally defined as a long-term resident, fulfilling what they consider “permanent establishment” rules, at which point you must begin to pay into the French system officially. Also, how does one go about accessing the health care system? Or do you continue to use annual health insurance instead? Have you – or anyone you know – ever come up against problems at the renewal stage of the visa process, as this is dealt with by individual prefectures rather than consulates, who often have wildly differing ways of doing/interpreting things?
I want to pursue this in the very near future but the fear of being slapped with a massive fine and deporation order frightens me, as I want France to become my permanent home! I wonder if, after five years of using a visiteur visa for remote work, I would gain permament residency and change my status to an auto-entrepreneur and start paying properly into the system. Sorry for the long post! I suppose my main question really is: this sounds fine and dandy for the first year or two but does it work long-term without complications down the line?
Jackie
In a decade of helping people with this, I’ve never once had a visitor visa remote-working client come back and say they have been slapped with a massive fine or have been deported.
Nor have I ever had the people on forums (how brave they are, lol) who insist that this is “illegal” produce even one single case of someone being “deported” and “slapped with a huge fine” over this issue.
It’s fear-mongering, and I tried to deal with it in this article. I can’t say any more than I said.
You seemed to conclude that this was “fine” as a “temporary measure” but it’s not. You can do this for the rest of your life, because not everyone wants to start a French business (in fact, I generally advise against it, if one has a choice). After five years as a visitor, you can convert to a Carte de Resident, which allows you to start a business, work a job, whatever.
If it’s “fine and dandy” for the first year or two, it’s fine and dandy for the next twenty. I don’t give temporary advice here. 🙂
So people you know have applied for renewal at the prefecture year after year without problems? Your advice is very reassuring. It’s the “later down the line” issue that worries me, and you have reassured me. Do you happen to know if those people have accessed the health system after three months without a hitch? I presume they declare themselves “inactif” in France to do so, while each year declaring their foreign-sourced income on their French tax return.
Jackie
When you say “access the French health care system” you make it sound like that’s difficult. As with the US, the French Health Care system is open to everyone. It’s a question of payment that is the issue. The French don’t care how you pay. They don’t refuse service if you don’t have insurance, just as they don’t in the US.
You can apply for “assurance etrangers” here in France, which gives you the same levels of treatment and the same costs that all of us who pay into the national system receive, all for around 450€ a year.
There’s an article on our site explaining how you can get access to the national system just by residency. I don’t know where you’re getting your advice from (declaring yourself “inactif”) but it’s wrong.
https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/12/13/how-to-get-a-numero-provisoire/
I am on my second year in France under a visiteur visa with a foreign source of income. I will say that at the end of my first year, when I went to renew my visa, I was asked to provide proof of health insurance covering this second year. This is the same request made when I first applied for the visa, and for which I purchased coverage through Cigna Global as described in this article:
https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/09/14/how-to-get-a-long-term-stay-visitor-visa-vfs-and-covid-19-edition/
Having never obtained a Numéro Provisoire from the French health system, I purchased a second one-year policy through Cigna and the prefecture accepted that for the renewal of my visa. The Cigna policy is not exactly cheap, and I regretted having to buy it, especially as I am already paying a considerable amount for health insurance through my American employer. But it did satisfy the prefecture and my visa was renewed and that was the important thing.
I’ve never been clear personally whether enrolling in the French health system would equally satisfy the ongoing visa requirements? The insurance requirement for obtaining the visa in the first place lists certain conditions such as that it must cover the costs of repatriation, which I doubt the French insurance does. But maybe it is nevertheless true that Assurance Maladie would be accepted by the prefecture for visa requirements for years 2 and after?
Very interesting. The one question I have is that you mention “As long as your pay for a given remote employer is connected to your fiscal address in the US, you’re good to go.”
What is your fiscal address? Does that mean you must have a physical address (an owned or rented home) in another country (in my case the UK)? Or does it mean that your US/UK bank account must be registered to an address somewhere (perhaps a relative’s address) and the money enters that account before being transferred to France?
Jackie
Don’t overcomplicate things. Here the author is just referring to some kind of address in the US. Because US citizens ALSO pay taxes even when they are fiscal residents of another country, the term “fiscal address” here probably also refers to the address she uses when filing taxes.
The French don’t care what money enters your bank account from where, as long as its not salary from a French company when you don’t possess the visa to receive such income.
I enjoyed reading this very much. Did you feel you needed to state that you intended to return to the US for a particular reason?
That’s very interesting Luke. Can I ask how you satisfied the income requirement going forward? Did you show a tax return with the foregin income declared? Or bank statements?
Hi Jackie, in my case I provided the last three months of paystubs from my American employer, and that fulfilled the proof of income requirement.
So there is yet more proof that what is said so well on this site is correct – it is perfectly acceptable to work remotely for a foreign employer while on a visitor visa. If the prefecture actually looks at your pay stubs and know you are working and say that is absolutely fine, there is no problem.
Hi Luke!
I was wondering how it worked out for you tax wise- I’m a 1099 in the US and unsure what to do? Do you have an accountant you could recommend? I’m near tears because ppl keep telling me me and my husband are going to get a 90k euro fine for working here with a visitor visa.
Hi Molli,
Thank you so much for the info! Great article. Quick question: As a student on a student visa which allows work upto 964 hours per year, can I still work as an auto-entrepreneur (/register for it)?
Hi Maya, thanks for reading! Unfortunately, foreign students are not allowed to become auto-entrepreneurs. It wasn’t always the case (I was a student when I opened mine) but they have since changed the rules. If you try to apply with your student visa you will be rejected. I would suggest looking for a different type of work, as you’re correct you are allowed to work up to 964 hours per year. I have an article about different options that you can read here. I hope this helps!
Hi,
I have one doubt regarding the “passeport talent – creation d’entreprise” title. Here (and in other places) I read that it is basically similar to the “profession liberale” with the added requirement of the 30,000€, however I see another significant difference. While for profession liberale I read -in the government’s websites, that it allows “vous installer comme professionnel libéral en France”, for passport talent I read that the company needs to be of type “commerciale, artisanale ou industrielle”. That would seem to exclude “profession liberale”-type of companies such as a software engineering consultancy. Is this indeed the case or am I misinterpreting something?
Thanks!
Hi Ernesto, thanks for reading! I specialize in the artist option for the passeport talent because as you can see the creation d’entreprise status is quite complicated! I don’t have an answer for you, but you can email me at mollisebrier@gmail.com and I can potentially connect you with an immigration lawyer who may be able to help.
I’ve been tracking a USPS global express package to France. I received notification that it was out for delivery this morning, then 12 hrs later tracking said “held at delivery depot/office”. It cleared customs 2 days ago at Roissy Chronopost international.
Input would be helpful. I’m not ready to start an inquiry w Chronopost, the courier for USPS in France.
It’s wait and see Maggie.
Surprisingly good news; about 24 hours afters I received notice the package was out for delivery then followed by notice that it was being held—it was delivered. I used USPS Priority Express.
The charge was about $68 for a small box placed into a standard fee USPS padded envelope. Time promised was 3-5 business. Today is the 5th day so USPS and Chronopost Global came through once the package was in france.
hi
do you need proof of accommodation for 1 year or
6 month is ok ? thanks
I think you will be fine with proof of only 6 months. As the instructions indicate, you are free to provide a short letter on this topic if you want to explain your situation and you think you have something additional to say that would bolster your case.
But otherwise I think simply the proof of 6 months will be sufficient, it shows that you have a start, and it is understood that not everyone can have permanent long term arrangements made in advance.
Stephen,
Thank you for this great post!
You mentioned that it’s not possible to change one’s status from visitor to, say, PLV before 2 years have passed. Can you possibly share your reference about that?
Mary
One of those unwritten rules that I’ve only discovered by talking to those who have attempted to change and been told no.
This is spot on and I couldn’t have said it better myself although I have these exact thoughts. Bravo!
Thanks Susan!
hi
we are applying for the long stay visitor visas. how long is the rental contract (1 year) is required for the proof of
accomodation ?
Kimo
One year is ideal but shorter, as short as 90 days, is okay as well.
Hello I have a friend in need of an attorney. He’s been trying to get back to the states since March of 2020. He is 75 yr old and I’m concerned about his health being stressed out. He has no money there. I beg of you to help him get home. He’s at the Charles De Gaullist airport immigration. He’s losing hope of ever getting home.
Sandra
I would reach out with one of the means listed in the article to see if he can get help that way.
Thanks for this, I have just been accepted on a VLS-TS visa on this basis. When it comes to filing taxes, do you have a recommendation on a French accountant (yours perhaps!)? That would be hugely appreciated, thank you (even a direct message to my email if possible). Thank you!
Olivia, my accountant is no longer taking new clients, but if you send me an email I can let you know about some other options.
Thanks for the very interesting discussion. My French wife & I are planning to move to Lyon in Aug 2023 for at least 12 months, assuming that I could remain employed and paid in Australia. We are now very unsure that this is possible. If anyone has any advice or insight it would be very appreciated.
I have a long stay visa and I planned to apply for citizenship through marriage.
Hi Tom
As noted, there is no reason why you couldn’t continue to do this. There’s a lot of fear-mongering online, but it’s not substantiated by any evidence from people actually going through the process.
Does anyone know the steps that a US company will be responsible for if their remote employee works in France for over the 180 days? Will they need to file any special document/pay any fee?
Angela
As someone who has employees for my US company all over the world, I can think of no tax document I, as an employer, are responsible for. The IRS doesn’t really care where your employees live, only that they pay into SS if they are W-2.
“Lush trees” – what type of tree?
Thanks for reading, Jessica! A quick Google search tells me London Plane or Horse-Chestnut 😉
Thank you so much for this article! I am very interested in pursuing this long term visitor visa and I believe I have a good chance that my boss will let me work remotely in France, but I do have one question. I’m guessing the answer is that there won’t be a problem, but I wanted to see if you have any more insight: is there any possibility for my American employer to face consequences of me working remotely? Like having to pay taxes in France, or have any penalty from the US government, or anything? I guess I want to be able to let my boss know that there is no risk for her to allow me to work remotely in France. I will of course still pay taxes in the state she has her business in.
Thank you for any help!
Hi Erica, there are certainly considerations to take into account but no necessary punitive consequences of the type you describe. You can find all kinds of discussions online about such considerations that employers of foreign remote workers should take into account; the topic has obviously become very germane in recent years. A Google search will quickly give you a good idea, though very little in the way of concrete pronouncements since every case is different.
But practically and realistically speaking (as opposed to the list of theoretical legal possibilities), and particularly under the provisions of the Visiteur visa, there is nothing your employer needs to be concerned about other than your ability to do your job.
You mentioned that you would continue to pay state income taxes in the state where your employer is located – this will almost certainly not be necessary. Consult an accountant, but if you are no longer a resident of a state the usual outcome is that you no longer owe state income taxes to that state either. Eventually you will even want to ask your employer to quit withholding state income tax contributions from your paycheck, in order that you don’t have to file a state return to get that money back.
Thanks much for the information.
Lots of contradictory information. Even some French lawyers will say, yes, others no. Is there anything that is granularly specific/evidenced-based argument from the French consulate-embassy a law, something that one can point to other than anecdotes, for Long stay visitor visas regarding the ability to pursue US based remote work on the soil of France?
I can see this turning into an remote work visa de facto and the French stopping this as folks abuse the system? Maybe I am wrong. Opinions only.
Elise, as I already noted, if there were such granular evidence, don’t you think I would have provided it in this article?
People are seeking certainty from a system that often doesn’t give it.
Thank you for this article! It gives me hope, which other FB groups had previously squashed. My husband and I are U.S. citizens and plan to move to France next year. He will be fully retired. I am a travel advisor and work as an independent contractor (1099) under a host agency in the U.S. I earn commission from travel suppliers who pay the earned commission for booked travel to my host agency, who then pays me.
We have sufficient savings to show proof of funds so I don’t need the proof of income for visa purposes, but I would love to continue my work after the move to France if possible. But I was under the impression (from the Karens) that this wasn’t possible on the Long-Stay Visa. Based on your article, it appears I could continue my work??
Hi Wendy
In your situation, I think the easiest thing would be to show sufficient income for the two of you from savings, 401k, etc. Don’t complicate the issue by mentioning work, but do remember to include your already-taxed US income (which would include these earnings) in your French tax return.
Glad you ignored the French Karens 🙂
Please do Not use this person. Got a feeling that it was heavy marketing appealing to dreamers and USA folks with naive sparkles in their eyes re: France. And yes that person did not earn their own visa/immigration based on merit—it was based on marriage to a native.
Her courses are a rip off and have factually inaccurate information.
Yes—another us -snake oil sell the French « « dream » salesperson.
It’s shocking that in a world of online reviews she manages to do this to so many people.
There remains enormous lack of clarity on the ability to lawfully and legally work a la distance from a US based corporation on a long stay visitor visa.
Can someone kindly share case law and/or a statute from France that explicitly states this acceptable and permissible? This is huge grey zone and appears a bit suspect to work given the ‘butt test.’ Thank you
Thanh
I wonder if you actually read my article. If there were relevant “statute” or “case law” don’t you think I would have provided it?
All I can tell you is no one from either side of the argument has produced one example of someone being deported for remote working.
Not one.
I use the website L’Officiel des Spectacles (www.offi.fr) to find classical music concerts in fabulous venues that are free; you can make a contribution to the sponsoring church if you would like, but it is not required for admission. This website has an enormous amount of information to help plan your Paris entertainment.
I arrived in France on January 26th. At the end of April, I sent the OFII a letter because I didn’t receive the convocation letter yet. They responded me a few days later (May 3rd) by email saying that they have received my letter, but the process was delayed because they were short staffed (un manque de personnel médical). It’s already July 2nd and I haven’t received anything. I still have time until I have to renew my one-year VTS-LT, but I’m starting to get nervous. Has anyone gone through the same situation? Is there anything else that can be done?
Hi Lucas, no, I don’t think there is anything else you can do at the moment. I understand your anxiety but I think you are in a good position and have no reason to worry yet. It sounds like you already took care of the online OFII registration process, which is the critical component in terms of YOUR responsibility. The fact that you received a response so quickly when you asked about the convocation would be very reassuring to me; it means there is someone at the other end of the line, they know what is going on, and they admit it is THEIR problem.
Although you can begin your visa renewal process as early as the end of September (4 months prior to your one year anniversary), you have until the end of November (2 months prior). So that’s still a good ways off and the medical is very likely to be completed by then.
Even in the unlikely event that you don’t have your medical certificate in time, you should still submit your renewal through the OFII site before the deadline and simply explain why you don’t have this document yet. I don’t think it will pose any issue with your ability to renew.
Hi, Molli. I realize your blog may be a couple years old, but I did have a question regarding student visa.
1). Does the French language program have to be a year long in order to qualify for long term student visa? Most I’m seeing are just over 12 weeks. If I were to apply to a 16 week language course, is it OK that I technically would not be a “student” for the remainder of the year?
Hi Melissa! Thanks for reading. You’ll have to find a program that runs for an entire year – meaning at least two semesters that are at least 12 weeks long. I hope this answers your question! If not I am available for consultations. Please reach out via mollisebrier@gmail.com to set something up.
Ugh. My visa appointment is Wednesday and my language course is only 4 months long. I have written a letter stating my intentions to apply for a master’s degree once applications open again, October 1, 2023. I have applied for a long stay student visa. Do you think there is any chance I will receive a non-temporary student visa (one that I could renew as a resident permit) in order to stay for a full year?
Hi Kathy, thanks for reading! As mentioned, in order to obtain the student visa, you’re required to be enrolled in a program that runs for an entire year: two semesters that are at least 12 weeks long. I hope this helps!
Thank so much for your insight Stephen! Have you heard of satisfying the income requirement during renewal with an employee contract rather paystubs? In my case, the position hasn’t started yet, but it’s time for me to renew my long stay visa.
KJ
Renewal is a different matter. Remember that renewal is not about “I could do this” but rather “I have been doing this” so they usually are looking at bank statements and French tax returns (if you’ve been there long enough to get one yet). It’s not like the original visa application where you were needing to prove income.
The shocking amount of incorrect information and steering customers to unnecessary expensive options is vile.
She wreaks of yet another hustler and huckster. Caveat emptor folks.
She’s yet another “immigration CONsultant” “expert”—including in their fetid ilk are unlicensed “jurists” who are not fully qualified lawyers/advocats—selling the EU fantasy with milk and rainbow yammer as they collect thousands for doing little to nothing.
Perhaps, Mr Heiner is spot on for a name and shame.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for your helpful post. I wonder if you have any insight about working remotely while on a working holiday visa?
My Company wish to continue to employ me, however on the advice of their (NZ) accountant they wish for me to contract to them, as they say I will no longer be a tax resident of NZ.
Their proposal is for me to continue to work for them as normal, but send invoices monthly for the work I complete. Would this then mean I am “working permanently” in France, despite no money exchanging hands in France?
I can’t seem to find anyone in this scenario for advice on how to proceed.
Any help would be appreciated.
Levon
As I continue to stress, working remotely cannot be construed as working in France until the French decide to make a law stating that is the case.
However, what you are proposing is a bit of a stretch, since the company is asking you to no longer be a NZ tax resident.
I would suggest tax domiciling in one of a couple countries in Europe, create a company there, and bill from there.
I’ve done this myself for different projects I’m working on, and would be happy to do a paid consultation with you on it if necessary.
Thank you so much for this article! I just had my OFII appointment and was worried that I hadn’t seen everyone that I should have. I got my ex-ray in Rouen then took the metro to the OFII office. It took less than 10 minutes, I was in and out. He didn’t look at my passport or anything other than a printout with my vaccinations. Done and dusted! Thanks for making me not so anxious!
Hello, how do we include children on those applications ? My wife and I plan on applying for one of those visas but I don’t see anything about child dependent ? Thank you!!
Max
Do you mean we don’t mention anything about it in the article, or you can’t find a space on the form?
https://demarchesadministratives.fr/formulaires/cerfa-14052-demande-de-visa-long-sejour
On this form it’s #28.
Hello! I’m an American living in France for a little over one year now. I’m here finishing my masters. I have been searching for a job in France but have been having some difficulty. So, I am wondering since I’m still on a student visa, can I “legally” work remotely in a part-time contract position with a US company?
Emily as I maintain in this article, you do not need special permission from any country to work remotely inside it unless that country has specific legislation regarding it in relation to immigration status. France has no such laws on the books.
Hello:
Bit of a problem, we sold our US house, and applied for long stay visa, but will not have an official US address, but a forwarding address to our property in France. Can I use my French address as the applicants address?
Thanks for reading, Sten. Using a French address as your current address on your visa application will likely pose a problem as the government will assume you currently live there. I would suggest asking a trusted friend or family member if you can use their address for visa purposes. I hope this helps!
Hi,
I’m an American living in Lyon for two years, probably will stay two more before returning to the US. I live with my partner (PACSed in France; married in US). I work for my US company in France.
I have not been filing taxes because I don’t want anything to impact my employer. I’m afraid if I file taxes in France, it will spur some sort of permanent establishment nightmare for my boss/company which I want to avoid.
Also, I cannot figure out how to file taxes in France! Is it online? Which forms should I use? Any help is appreciated. Do you have an accountant you can refer?
Rose
Your fears are unfounded and irrational, while putting yourself in a potential pickle if you want to keep living in France.
You have to file taxes every year. The French don’t have any ability to see where your income comes from, only that there is some “worldwide income” which goes into a single line item on your tax return. Nothing is going to happen to your employer. The French simply do not have the infrastructure in place to investigate this kind of thing. Not even the IRS does, and they are the most heavily-funded tax entity in the world!
My accountant is no longer taking new clients, but shoot us an email and we can send you some that we’ve researched but haven’t yet gotten feedback on.
Thank you. Where can I find your email address?
Just use the contact form on the website. It helps us keep track of all correspondence so things don’t fall through the cracks. 🙂
Thank you! What about French social security? If my foreign employer that I work for online doesn’t know that I work in France and I want to keep it that way? What is the risk that URSSAF will contact my outside of France employer and oblige to pay social security tax for me?
How would URSSAF know you are working for a remote employer? Does everyone believe that the French have some cyber-snooping skills that even the US government doesn’t have? If they did, do you think, given all the troubles France has now, that they would be using resources to guess whether someone is working remotely, then to try to rough them up with cyber police?
I would like to see one case in French history in which URSSAF, led by some cyber squad or via private informants, has contacted an employer outside of France to trigger such a process.
TL;DR stop listening to Karens who get joy from telling people they can’t work remotely in France.
Hello ~
We are Americans having lived in France permanently for the last 18 years. We’ve always used our California licenses until they’ve expired over the years here without any problem. California doesn’t exchange with France so what can we do now to have a French license as we won’t be traveling back to CA anymore? We are 73 and 76 years old and have a perfect driving record here. Yet our insurance company now requires a French driver’s license; an American one won’t do. Groupama which has insured our cars for the last few decades here has now suggested that I go to the mairie to have “help”. What can they do for us, concretely, do you know? My husband cannot take the driving written test in French at 76! Can you suggest any solutions to our problem? Does being over 70 allow us to continue to drive with a perfect record without having a French license?
Janet
Unless you have some friends in French administration who can help you, I don’t see how you can get an exception here.
And as far as the French are concerned, you do not have a “perfect record” as you’ve never had a French license to have a record on.
You can get the drivers test translated here it’s allowed
You can also take hour by hour courses , usually 4 hours should suffice at your experience level … it costs around 50 e an hour
Hope this helps !
Hello, I understand you, it was certainly heartbreaking to leave Paris, but this city has changed a lot, when I visit Paris it’s in tourist mode and I can’t imagine living there.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Hi , thank you for this helpful article
My question is : can I back to my country after online validation and begor the medical exam?
Hi Shishi, I don’t see why not, though you will obviously want to make it back in time for the exam!
To be honest, I did not find any law in this case.
And considering the length of the medical appointment, I may need to leave France and re-enter, I am very worried about this and I don’t know what to do?!
I don’t think you will have any problem. You have your visa pasted into your passport, that will permit you to leave and return. Your medical exam certificate is not used at customs, you will give it to the prefecture next year when you renew your titre de sejour.
Obviously as you have requested a French visa, it is expected you will be living in France. But you are certainly free to leave and return as you need. The medical exam has no bearing on that.
Hi Thank you for the helpful article. I have a VLS TS in which I registered online 8 months ago and paid the 200 euro fee. I am concerned I have not received my OFII medical app I have sent an email but with no reply from them and my VLS TS runs out in March.
Hi Lorraine, that is indeed annoying. Since you are renewing in March, you can already start the renewal process, and indeed I’d recommend you do so (you should start no earlier than 4 months prior to expiration, and no later than 2 months prior).
This process is commenced online at
https://administration-etrangers-en-france.interieur.gouv.fr/
One of the things they will ask you provide as part of the renewal process is a copy of your medical certificate that you would have been given after the exam. Actually when I went through this process there wasn’t a specific place to upload this, but they wrote back and said I could have included it with a copy of my visa, which they also requested.
At any rate, the process is always a bit ill-thought-out as usual with French online procedures, but I would attach somewhere in this renewal process a brief note that explains your predicament and the reason why you do not have the medical paper (Certificat de Controle Medical). At least they will then know, and maybe they will even be able to do something about the appointment.
Additionally, I found this page which maybe you have already seen:
https://www.ofii.fr/le-rendez-vous-sante-a-lofii-pourquoi-pour-qui-ou/
At the bottom of the page are a list of email addresses to inquire specifically about the Rendez Vous Santé, by region. If you had written someone else, you might try the email address for your area. It may go into yet another black hole, but it’s worth a try.
Keep us posted on what happens. But ultimately I believe if you notify Étrangers en France why you don’t have the certificat during your renewal application, they can’t hold you responsible for it.
Hey Chris,
Lovely article. I had a quick question for you. So when you were living your 5 years on you long-term visitors visa every year when you went to renew did you submit pay stubs? If for example you didn’t have pay stubs what other types of documents work as proof of funds?
Hi Christa. Great question. For my application, I always submitted as many documents as I could, and more than were required. My salary comes from the USA, so I would always submit my three previous pay stubs, along with an employment letter in French stating my monthly salary and that I am on a Contrat de Travail à Durée Indéterminée (CDI), meaning that I have a permanent job contract. I also submitted my avis d’impôts sur les revenus (tax returns) for the previous year.
For my wife’s application, since she doesn’t work outside of the home, I supplied the above documents along with an attestation de prise en charge, which states that I cover her living expenses with my salary.
Hi, I’m a British citizen hoping to move to France and work there for a little while as I studied French at university and want to improve my language skills even more. However, because we have now left the EU, it is very difficult finding employers willing to sponsor a work visa. Unrelated to the job search in France, I have just started a completely remote role teaching English as a foreign language to earn some more money. It is a freelance contract with a language school based in France. I am wondering if I could potentially go to France for a few months and carry on this remote role there as my job. But the fact that it is a French company makes me think not. Do you know anything abut this or have any advice?
Thank you
Lydia
As we stated in the article, a remote job means you can work anywhere. As long as the French employer is paying your UK company/bank account, and you pay your taxes appropriately, you don’t need to worry, whether you are here on a short 3-month stay or on a long stay visitor visa.
It’s a remote job. Try to disconnect yourself from the assumptions around a regular in-person job.
I need to renew my ten year residency card. I am not in France and would like to know if I can start the process and send the documents online. My card expires in two months … March 19,2024. Or do I need to go to the prefecture in France. I do not live full time in France but would like to keep my resident card in the event I move back to France one day. I am an American citizen
Hi Sheila. The renewal process requires a justificatif de domicile (proof of your residency at an address in France, typically shown through an electric bill in your name). Do you currently own or rent a place in France? If so, I would absolutely try to start the process online as you need to apply for renewal within two months of your current card expiring.
Stephen, or others, may have more insights to share as well.
Hi Chris, I’m American and received my ten-year residency card here two years ago in Montpellier where I had to go to Prefecture for the application process. It took six months until I received the card.
My question: where exactly could I find the clause about being able to live in “certain states” in EU beyond 90 days without needing a long-stay visa from that state? Appreciate your help. Thanks in advance.
Judy
Hi Judy. Follow this link and select the first drop down menu (What does the EU long-term residency card allow?). The third paragraph will show you which Member States of the EU allow a stay longer than 3 months.
Hi Stephen, thanks for this article. I am an American living in France and have a quick question. I am a resident here, and have been working for a French company with a CDI. If I took a job with an American company, working remotely in France, but still want to have the benefits of French system (cotisation for retirement, health benefits, mutuelle etc) is that possible? Can I do that by paying taxes in the US or in France? If so. How do I pay taxes in France on a US income? Thanks in advance!
Payton
The short answer is that you cannot get the “benefits of the French system” while working for an American company.
If you have been living here, you should surely know this is an impossible ask.
Thank you very much for this! All very informative, and helped to answer some of our burning questions about the possibilities of staying and establishing residency.
Hi Molli, what about someone with an APS/jobseeker visa that allows me to find work/work for 1 year, can I apply for this? Merci bcp.
Hello Daisy, thanks for reading! Yes, you are able to become an auto-entrepreneur on the APS visa.
Wow! It felt like you wrote my story about how I came to live in Paris as an au pair. Now, many decades later, I want to live there permanently. Looking forward to part two.
Thanks so much for reading Carol 🙂 Part 2 is officially live!
Hello Stephen,
I was wondering which line item would be the one you are referring to for “worldwide income”. I see multiple that I could imagine it referring to. Namely:
1. Salaires perçus par les non-résidents et salaires de source
étrangère avec crédit d’impôt égal à l’impôt français
2. Autres salaires imposables de source étrangère
Thanks!
Quinn this is a question for your accountant for your situation and your visa.
Hi Quinn!
Did you ever find out an answer to to this question/were able to find an accountant who could help? Any insight would be greatly appreciated as I do not have an accountant yet!
Also would love to know, thanks!
As we’ve said before, if you wish to be connected with an accountant, email us using the contact form and we can connect you that way.
Hello Stephen,
I am in the process of applying for the Long-stay visitor visa now. I am from the US, working for a US company on a W-2, and I would like to live and work in France. There is so much fear mongering that I have had some serious doubts admitting this in my application. Reading your article is reassuring.
My question is, in my cover letter, do I mention wanting to take the year to figure out if and where I’d like to live in France? Do I mention that I will be working remotely for a US company? I have a letter from them if I choose to use it.
I am hoping to stay in France for the 5 years and get permanent residency. However, I’m so used to the US, where you don’t dare admit you want to stay in the country, and I’m wondering what tactic to take / how honest I should be. Or if less is more? Any advice would be very helpful!
Thank you,
Jessie
Jessie
Yes, you will show your letter from your company as your “proof of income.”
I’m a bit confused by your comments, so let me try to correct a couple of your premises:
“where in the US, you don’t dare admit you want to stay in the country.” Given that you’ve never been an immigrant to the US, I don’t know why you would think this. If you speak with any green-card-holding immigrant you would find out that you very much need to state you want to stay, and in fact, once you get a green card, as long as you hold it, you can’t be absent from the country more than six months at a time.
As for France, you’re applying for a renewable one-year visa. You’re telling the French that you’re willing to leave your home country behind and live with them for a year and possibly renew at the end of it. In what scenario are you supposed to pretend to them that you aren’t considering living in France long-term? Why would they be offended/worried about this? Some people have stayed on this visa classification for a decade or longer.
However, you cannot tell them you’re going to take a year to figure out where to live in France simply because you have to register with a specific address, where you are going to do your OFII visit. This isn’t America where you can just wander around. You’re an immigrant and once you’ve gotten the hang of things after your first year, and you can secure an address where you can get mail and show up again for your renewal appointment the following year, feel free to “wander around,” as you’ll know the ropes by then. But let me be the first to tell you if you haven’t been told, wandering around “figuring out your life in France” is not a possibility for a first-time never-lived-in-France-before person, on the paperwork level or even on the practical level.
Hope that helps 🙂
Wow; where should we begine with that individual. Sold such wrong info, purposely selling nonsense services and no follow up; just a shoulder shurgs. She did not earn a visa-residency whatever; she married into it. No real experience whatsoever. I fell for it too. A scumbag giving such bad information so she can charge over FOUR thousand euros …for what? Yes, another immigration con sultant service provider. She needs to be put out of business. Thank you.
Hi Stephen,
This is a fantastic article, and I wanted to know if you had any expertise in a particular wrinkle to the above information:
My spouse is a diplomat with the US Department of State. We’re about to PCS (permanent change of station) to France for 3 years for her next assignment. She’ll be working in the embassy.
I am currently employed as a W2’d salaried employee with a US technology company, and I want to work remotely. I’m fairly confident and unworried about my personal situation and personal liability; I know that there’s a bi-lateral work agreement with France, I know I don’t need a work visa, etc.
My employer is naturally concerned about whether they’re opening themselves up to liabilities by not having established an operating or legal entity in France, and whether employing me regardless of my tax/visa liability (or lack thereof) is a risk to them.
Thus far, my searching online has only indicated that this is a terminally grey area, with no clearly established guidance or laws anywhere.
Do you have anything to add to the conversation? Your perspective is invaluable. Thank you!
As you indicated, this is terminally grey. If your employer is terminally nervous about it, they are likely just unfamiliar with the laws regarding remote work worldwide. Ask them to provide cases in which a person working remotely in another country has tax reporting requirements in that country. Then ask them to find that for France. 🙂
In my experience, if the employer is too nervous, they will simply say, “no” to the employee, and for others, they will say, let’s see where it goes.
Accountants and lawyers, terminal rule followers, are even afraid of rules they can’t see. Hazard of the profession, and it serves them well, I’m sure, but it just doesn’t apply here.
Why are you deleting this persons name?
I’m extremely familiar with US law regarding naming and shaming. I am not so familiar with French law on this. But the Xs correspond to the exact number of letters in the person’s first and last name and a number of people have connected the dots in the comments, as you’ll see. It’s a very small “help people moving to France” world.
Hi Stephen,
Thank your for this article. I’m considering moving to France this spring with my spouse, who is French. I’m applying for the family/spouse visa and wondering if in this situation you believe it would be possible to continue to work remotely for my current, US-based employer without them having to go through an EOR or setting up as an enterprise without establishment in France? Or is this something specifically for people with Visitor visa status?
Thanks for any advice.
Amefree
The vie privee visa is very privileged, granting you the ability to work in France once you get it. You shouldn’t have any worry about continuing your remote work for a US employer.
Hi Chris, thanks for your article! I’m wondering if you know whether it’s possible to apply for the 10 year card if you are not due for a renewal. I’m on a 4 year card, but only 1.5 years of the way through, but I’ve been here for over 5 years (2 years on a visitor visa, before changing to profession liberale for 3 years). Do I have to wait another 2.5 years until my renewal comes up or can I ask now, and if so how can I make the appointment (I’m based in Paris)?
Hi Claire, thanks for your question. Typically, you have to wait until your current card is up for renewal before request a new one. You should have a sufficiently grave and compelling reason to make the request early. For example, the 10-year card allows you to be off French soil for 3 years, so if you happen to have a terminally ill family member back home with whom you want to spend as much time as possible, the prefecture may consider your request. If you have such a reason, I would encourage you to reach out to your local prefecture to see if they can guide you further before going through the application process.
Hi Chris,
Thank you so much for this informative article and for taking the time to respond to questions.
Re: requesting a new card before the impending expiry of the old one.
I have been living in France for 6 1/2 years and SHOULD have applied for a 10 year resident card last time around instead of a 5 year one, but didn’t know about it.
I may have to go to another EU country for up to a year with my husband (an EU national living in France), and as far as I can tell, the 10 year card would permit me to do this.
I’ve tried to contact the prefecture (in Nice, via email) about an early renewal, and how to go about it, but I get no response.
Is the reason for my request not “sufficiently grave or compelling”?, as you wrote in your response to Claire in March.
Should I email again with a more grave and compelling reason?
Much obliged and with lots of appreciation,
Selina
Hi Selina,
My apologies for the slow response. The “sufficiently grave or compelling” argument will undoubtedly be interpreted subjectively. You can try to email again, because it doesn’t hurt to make the attempt but in my experience there’s no guarantee of a response. I’m not an immigration specialist, but I do wonder how favorable they would be to move up your appointment, given that the reason you are trying to move it up would be to move, albeit temporarily, to another EU country.
When does your current card expire?
Chris
Hi there,
Thank you so much for all of this detailed information! I’m helping my mom through this process, but we are totally stumped because the online application does not offer the visitor option.
Do you have any insight or experience into this?
Jourdie
What link are you using?
Hi!
Thanks for your reply.
This is where we started, which appears to be the French government visa application site.
https://france-visas.gouv.fr/en/web/france-visas/online-application
Thanks for any insight!
Hi Jourdie, you’re at the right website. The question may be couched as “what are your plans” or “I request a visa for the following purpose” but either way there will be a list of options to choose from, one of which will be “Private stay/visitor.” (If you are trying to do it in French, it will be something like “Etablissement privé/Visiteur”). Other options will be things like employment, studies, training, marriage, etc…
The way it’s phrased doesn’t make it sound that important, but indeed that is where your Visitor visa type is determined.
When I filled it out, there was also a question about “Visa Type Requested,” which is where you’d think you’d see the Visitor option, but this one is asking about length of stay (you want to select the option for more than one year to get the long stay visa).
If you want to see what the paper form looks like at the end, there are copies on this page, under Long séjour – Long-stay visa:
https://france-visas.gouv.fr/en/web/france-visas/forms
Box 23 is where the visitor status is shown. You should still go through the online process, it will generate the paper form for you, but I mention it so you can see it really is there.
This is quite intriguing. I found the paper form as well, but it does not match the options proposed by the online application for her. Only “business, family or private settlement, family or private settlement (minor), other” are offered, all of which require supporting documentation that she does not have (ofii reunification form, volunteer contract, etc). Well, your reply at least confirms that this is something of any anomaly, so that’s a start! Thank you.
Hi Jourdie, I created an account to see if I could replicate what you’re seeing. On the first page of the application, I see four sections in this order: Your Situation, Your Stay, Your Travel Document, and Your Plans. Under this last, the question is asked “Why are you making this trip?” with a drop-down of choices. The first four are as you have described, but note that you if you *scroll down* within that option list, you will see further options after “other” – or anyway, I see a further half dozen options, and the very last one is “Visitor.” Let us know if that works for you!
Hello again,
Sadly, my mom is not that tech un-savvy after all. The four options I listed are the only ones available to her. It may be related to the fact that she received a visitor’s visa last year, but was unable to renew it due to having to be in the States during the window for that. The consulate said she could apply for a new visa, but perhaps the options for what type are limited after if you don’t turn a visitor visa into a titre de sejour.
Thanks for the effort though!
That is indeed confusing. I should think it would always be possible to apply once more for a new visa, from the very beginning. Maybe you will need to create a new account with france-visas.gouv rather than trying to log in with your old one. It is also possible to delete your account first within france-visas, as I did this with my test account. At any rate this is not a situation I am knowledgeable about, but please keep trying, and if you discover the solution, it would be of interest to others if you post it here. Bon courage!
Strange indeed. She did create a new account, but there again strange problems arose. She cannot log in with the new account, for reasons unknown, only the old one. I will suggest she delete both and try starting fresh. I’ll let you know what we uncover; thanks for the support!
Thank you for your article, it helps a lot. Currently I have completed my 5 years in France. My visa renewal will be in June, I have already received a date for my visa renewal as a 1 year extension. Because I was able to get an exam date in May. Can I apply for a 10-year residence permit immediately after receiving my 1-year extension, or do I have to wait for next year’s appointment? I would be very grateful if you could advise me on this matter.
If you have already completed five years, you are eligible to apply for a ten year card now. You should change your visa appointment to be for the ten year card instead.
If you mean that you will complete your five years by June, then yes, you can apply one year from June when the one year-renewal comes up.
Thank you for your answer, yes, but I need to pass the A2 delf test to get 10 year card , but the test date does not meet my titre renewal appointment date. For this reason, do I have to wait for my next appointment in 2025 to get 10 years? Or can I request a 10-year extension before that appointment, Before 2025? Thank you
No A2 delf certificate, no 10 year card. It’ll have to be next year, unfortunately.
Thank you for the information in the post.
When one is completing the CPAM health cerfa form with a visitor long stay visa, if they are working remotely for a US based, US sourced income job, should they indicate on that form, that they are not working in France? Section B has “professional employment section”. It our undestanding that “working in France” means French company, organization, etc. not a US income remote worker job. Therefore, one is not working in France? Or should the “other” category be ticked with an explanation of remote worker US based job.
Thank you.
Sara
when the French bureaucracy refer to “professional employment” they mean in France where you pay taxes. As I’ve noted elsewhere, this may one day be clarified in law, with tax consequences, but the general rule is don’t give the French more than they are asking for. “Not working in France” is the answer. Please don’t tick other.
We did get your earlier comment, but we don’t work weekends here. This is a French-based blog, after all 🙂
Oh boy, I will die laughing and also of shame if this is the answer. I’ve been helping her with this over Zoom from a distance, which is not very hands on. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if you have found the solution. Will keep you posted. *silent facepalm*
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for the article. a EU employer wants to hire me. I’m already in France with a “Passport talent Salarié Qualifié” Card. Affter some research and because the employer does not have a branch here , he will go with The Foreign Firm Slip (TFE) system (https://www.tfe.urssaf.fr/portail/en/accueil/s-informer-sur-offre-de-service/essentiel-du-tfe.html).
The remaining question is that , will I be able to renew my residency card with that system?
Don’t know if you have the answer.
Regards
Oumar
Your situation is not one that I’m familiar with, so I had to bring in reinforcements in the person of Jean Taquet. Here are his thoughts:
As weird as it may sound at first it is possible that this person keeps the same carte de séjour and if not then it will be an employee immigration status which will need to be defined by the details of the position.
I am calling this set-up le salarié en France d’un employeur étranger.
So regardless of the nationality of the employee, URSSAF considers rightfully this person as a French employee as having a French labor contract, of a foreign employer since indeed this employer has zero representation in France that can act as an employer.
This is the French text that introduces this set-up
Le Titre firmes étrangères (TFE) est un dispositif du réseau des Urssaf destiné à simplifier les formalités sociales liées à l’emploi de salariés par des entreprises sans établissement en France. Cette offre de service gratuite est gérée par le centre national Titre firmes étrangères.
Since this person already has this passeport talent status what is left is the salary to be able to renew it.
If the position makes sense and is compatible with this scheme then this is the legal way to do it.
Normally this should a marketing, representation, liaison, servicing the clientele type of position.
As I said the only thing left to check is the salary/compensation.
Otherwise it is the normal carte de séjour “salarié”
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for your answer. The new contract will satify all the criteria for that passport Talent, the only remaining uncertainty was the renewal of the card. I’ve also emailed “the prefecture” for confirmation but still wainting for their reply.
Thanks again
Hi Oumar,
As I have noticed your question almost one year later, I guess you have found a solution. Just for your information, some companies propose assistance for the foreign company to use URSSAF TFE services. This is useful to solve some questions like the one you had.
https://yourpayrollfairco.com/
Thank you Mr Heiner, appreciate all that you do.
You are welcome Sara!
And the moral of the story, especially in the case of French bureaucracy is: shortcuts rarely are!!
Alas! lol
Hey there,
I have a question in regards to Proof of enough resources to cover all expenses during trip. How do I know what the minimum requirements are ? Also do the minimum requirements in the back account need to be a solid amount untouched or can it be monthly pay stubs covering the total amount over the year? Thank you.
Hi Erik, you should be able to show an income at least equal to the French minimum wage, which in 2024 is about 21,000 euros. You are not required to have this in savings, proof of income is accepted. I can’t remember exactly but I believe I was asked to provide something like the last 9 months of paystubs. Of course if you have any savings, it won’t hurt anything to show that as well.
Thank you so very much for the help and quick reply !
Hi there. Great article. I was recently told by a French tax agent that assists Americans that I could work on a 1099. He mentioned I’d be paying my taxes on this income in America as it’s for an American company hiring me for a small side gig and not money I made in France by a French company. They did say that if I’m making a regular salary that would be different. They said I wouldn’t be paying taxes on my 1099 income in France just America even though I need to report worldwide income. Currently I’m not planning to work at all but it is certainly confusing what one can and can’t do and worrying if I’ll get kicked out or not. Like you said digital Karens warn you’ll be removed. Others say the tax and immigration don’t speak and I’m not working for a French company so I’ll be fine?
James
I don’t know how many times I can keep answering the same question different ways, but I don’t see why you wouldn’t be fine.
I completely get it. I was just cussed out by a hand holder that said I was wrong. She was right….and she’s the professional, not me. She told me the tax person I spoke to was incorrect on filing taxes.
How did this turn out for you in the end? I’m still unsure how to file
Hi, thank you so much. My Americam coworker registered as an autoentrepreneur and got invoices of more than 500€. Is this maybe the case for Americans? For me it was free.
Hi Sarah, thanks for reading! Your colleague shouldn’t have received a bill for signing up to be an auto-entrepreneur. People sometimes receive spam mail after signing up which could explain it. I would suggest contacing URSSAF to check.
Hi Molli, I am on an APS visa in Paris and a Paris-based company wants me to have a freelance contract with me as they have projects they’d like me to work on. When I chose my APS visa, it was on the premise of a CDD/CDI but this has been challenging and this freelance contract was offered sooner. I would like to do this freelance work. And I’ve seen that you said I can do this via APS visa which is what I have now. My questions:
1. Do I still need to submit a “business plan” for this (since I did not initially submit one) ?
2. Can I sign the freelance contract immediately after signing up with CFE to be an auto-entrepreneur?
3. And after the expiry of the APS visa, is there any way I can continue staying in France as an auto-entrepreneur?
MERCI BCP FOR YOUR ANSWERS. YOURE A TRUE LIFE SAVER. GOD BLESS YOU.
Hi Daisy, thanks for following up! I think you may be mixing up the auto-entrepreneur tax status with the profession libérale visa – they aren’t the same. You don’t need to have a business plan to become an auto-entrepreneur, and you’re free to sign freelance contracts as you like once you are one. As far as staying in France after your APS as an auto-entrepreneur, you’d likely have to pursue the profession libérale visa. There’s a lot of confusion out there on this but the auto-entrepreneur is a tax status and not a visa.
If you need more help please fill out our contact form so that I can connect you with someone for a paid consulation 🙂
Hello,
If I get my profession libérale visa and whilst I am in France, someone wants to employee me as a salaried worker, is this allowed ? Or do I have to change visa status ? And if so, is that process difficult ?
Tara
You need to understand that in order to hire a foreigner the employer is going to have to pay a 10k euro bounty and then a 25% tax on your salary every month forever. You are highly unlikely to be hired in France unless you possess a particular set of skills or a certification that is rare in Europe.
A PL visa is not an employment visa. It is a freelancer visa, allowing you to work as a contractor with an annual income cap. If you want to get a job, pursue that, not a PL visa.
In the unlikely event you would get hired for a job while already in possession of a PL visa, yes you’ll need a visa and someone at that company will probably help you with all those details. What they probably can’t help you with is the shut down of your PL business and all the fun paperwork that goes along with that.
Hi Gracie. Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I have a question regarding transferring from VLS-TS to the VPF when PACSed. I understand the need to show 12 months of common life in France, and you mentioned “(though you can begin the process before those 12 months are up)”…do you have any more clarity around that?
My common life with my PACS partner in France started when my VLS-TS started in September 2023, so I won’t have 12 months of common life until the VLS-TS expires in Sept 2024…at which point I hope I will get the VPF!!
Do you have any knowledge of how that would work if, for example, I apply for VPF in June (3 months before VLS-TS expires). I would technically have only 9 months of common life documents to show at that point. I have documentation (a letter from my partner) from my VLS-TS application that I would be living with him for the duration of VLS-TS visa?
..I guess my *appointment* would not be in June, but still the appointment would be before the 12 months is up.
Curious if you have any more insight on this tricky timeline I am dealing with! Thank you in advance! And hopefully what I wrote makes sense!
Hi Erica,
Thanks for reading…my advice is to time the appointment for the VPF visa as close to 12 months as you can, and bring the documentation showing all the time you’ve lived together, including the lettre d’hebergement you mentioned from your partner that you’ll be staying with him for the duration of your VLT-TS.
I’ve heard of other couples applying for the VPF with less than 12 months of documentation, although I would always air on the side of caution at the prefecture and not assume they will be generous about you bending the rules and applying with only 9 months.
Hope that’s helpful and best of luck,
Thanks so much!!
Hi Grace, thank you so much for sharing your experience. I have a related question on the timelines and PACs in order to apply for the VPF. I’d greatly appreciate any insight you have!
First, is having PACs (or being married) the only avenue for applying for the VPF? Or am I permitted to apply after 12 months of communal life (shared bills, etc) on the VLS-TS?
Second, my understanding was that you had to be living together for 6 months before getting PACS. If that is true, plus 12 months of being PACS, would that mean the earliest you can apply for a change of status to VPF would be the second VLS-TS renewal (18-24 months after initial VLS-TS)?
Thank you again!!!
Hi Hannah, jumping in here! To answer your questions, yes, you must be PACS’d or married to obtain the VPF visa. I’m not sure who told you that you need to be living together for 6 months before getting PACS’d as that is not true — in fact, you don’t even need to be living together in order to be PACS’d! That said, you’re correct, you do need to show at least 12 months proof of communal life if you hope to get the VPF via a PACS. I hope this makes sense!
Thank you SO much, Molli! I have one followup question if you’re able: if I am currently on a VLS-TS Visitor, do you know if I can change to VLS-TS VPF at any time, or do I have to wait until the annual visa renewal process (assuming I do already have 12 months of communal life)?
Of course! You can change your visa status up to 4 months before the expiration of your current visa. I hope this helps!
Hi Molli. I have these questions regarding PL and auto-entrep visas.
1. In applying for a PL visa, do I need to prove that I already have the 12 months’ worth of funds required (SMIC 1,700 x 12 months = 21,000 euros) ? Or do I just need to provide proof of my freelance contracts and/or monthly payslips that I receive equal or more than the french minimum wage?
2. Social Charges – is this the only fee we have to pay when we are doing Auto-entrepreneur? Or is there another website where we pay for the taxes?
3. For PL visa – do we pay the social charges the same way as when we were doing Auto-entrepreneur?
Hi Maine, as a note, “auto-entrepreneur” is a tax status while PL is a visa. If you have more questions about the PL visa I would be happy to connect you with someone who can consult with you on it. I’ll email you 🙂
I need to file my first French tax filing. I am a remote worker with a VLS TS and all income is derived in the US. The French accountant that I spoke with directed me to go to the URSSF site and register my business. Based upon my research and in no small part the guidance from this website I believe this to be faulty advice.
I would appreciate a referral to a French accountant who can assist and help me with filing and who understands the concept of a remote worker. Thank you!
Kyle
I emailed you on this.
I was on the aps visa in france but I’ve applied to be on the visitor visa due to not being able to find a job. As such, do I need to file a French tax return (I’ve never have before) and where do I go to file it, and do I just write that I’ve made 0 euros?
Thank you for the help in advance
Sam
It’s not clear to me that you can switch from APS to visitor.
We have links to our recommended accountants in our sidebar of the website. We do not provide accounting or tax advice.
Hi Moli,
This is a wonderful article. Although I am not a US citizen I believe the process for freelancers is the same for everyone. I do have a few questions though
1. I currently have APS status that is valid till Jan 2025 and I have the option to renew it once more. Can I just renew my APS or will I be required to change my visa to something else?
2. If in the future I move to a CDI contract can I close the SIRET that will be in my name or will it become redundant?
3. Is there a minium earnings requirement to obtain a Talent passport?
Best regards,
Linton
Hi Linton,
1. You can simply renew if you have that option.
2. If you get a CDI you should close your SIRET.
3. It depends if you want to go for the freelance option or the salaried option.
Hope this helps!
Thank you Molli.
In case I decide to continue with the Freelance option, what visa types can I apply for? From what I see on the internet there is only an option for Long stay visa which needs to be renewed every year.
Is there any other option?
Best regards,
Linton
Linton,
If you want to go the freelance route, your option would be the profession libérale visa. As a note, 99% of visas to live in France need to be renewed each year, so I’m not sure where you got the idea that there were some that don’t require you to do that.
Hope this helps!
Hi there.. May I seek some unofficial advice from you on my siutation: I am on a long-stay visiteur visa and work online/remotely for a HK employer. However, I am having challenges with the money being transferred to my current account in India (my nationality). Can I receive money in my French bank account? Do I need to “declare” any income or pay any taxes? Or should I open an offshore EU account and get the money into it? I really need to get my pay coming into EU instead of India.
Note: I do hope to convert into a self-employed/entrepreneurial visa the next time I travel to India in 8 months time. At the moment, visa changes not allowed within France.
Thank you in advance for your advice.
I don’t know what you mean by “visa changes are not allowed in France.”
You can receive money into your French bank account, but make sure it comes from you, not directly from your employer, especially if you are on a visitor visa. Send the money from your Indian bank account, once you are paid, to your French account. If your Indian account doesn’t have that capability, use a service like Wise.
The discussion here seems to center on those working for US businesses. What about a freelancer writing/editing/kindle publishing/teaching/tutoring with many small private (non-French) clients?
I would be very happy if I could do this on a renewable long stay viseteur visa and move through residency to eventual citizenship that way. Is this possible?
Del
I have not yet heard of a case of a visitor getting citizenship. This is because one of the most crucial documents to your citizenship dossier is your tax statements, and as a visitor you wouldn’t be paying taxes and hence “contributing” to the French state. If you know of such a case, please share, but I’ve not yet heard of it.
As to your US business discussion, I suppose you are asking about non-US businesses…but you need to house that income somewhere, and pay taxes on it, ostensibly. So, not sure what your question is. Whether you get your income from a US company as an employee or from a Thai corporation that you own, you can still do that remote work in France.
Stephen- your intial article, as well as this Q&A have been so enlightening! Your last post, however, threw me for a bit of a loop.
I may have missed it, but I don’t recall seeing previously that there an impediment to an American applying for French citizenship after 5 years on a VLS-TS just because I would have been working remotely for a US company… or just because I may not have paid taxes here. I think I must be misunderstanding or missing something. (Side note: I was only planning to work remotely for the first year or two, then retiring at about 65 while remaining in France.)
While I certainly wouldn’t turn down one of your very informative specific responses, I also be happy if you would just link me to an article that might cover this information already.
Many, many thanks!
Brian
I can tell you with 100% certitude, that if you cannot prove that your financial resources come primarily from France, and that you pay taxes on those resources in France, you will be refused French nationality. I’ve seen it in more than one case myself. There are even starting to be difficulties for some getting a ten-year carte de resident under these conditions.
All you can prove with a remote job is that you’re a long-term visitor with income from abroad, not someone who has made his life in France, making money in France. This is how the French think about things, no matter how you may see them.
Indeed, the French are only making obtaining nationality harder these days, as they are upgrading to B2 DELF soon as a language requirement.
The way around this? Marry a Frenchie, and you only have to prove a valid marriage, nothing else. 🙂
There’s no “article” from the French on this. You may have discovered by now that they aren’t focused on informing you about the immigration or nationality process. There’s not a single article from them, for example, about your needing to file taxes while here on a long-term stay visa. Pretty important, no?
This entire blog project is built from blood, sweat, and immigration tears. If you plan on obtaining citizenship via the visitor path, I’m sorry to tell you you’ve either been misled or have failed to do your research.
PS Feel free to retire in France. You don’t need citizenship to do that, nor are the French going to give that to you just because you decided to retire here.
Hi Chris, Thank you so much for your article. I am currently a US citizen married to a French Citizen. We got married in the US and have lived together since. (I have my Livret de famille for 8 years). My husband has registered as a French Person Living abroad. We are now moving to France together and I am seeking a 10 Year CDS as my first residence permit. Is this possible to get with my situation (As I understand the time we lived together in the US may count towards the 5 year requirement for nationality) and also which visa do I need to request before leaving the US to France? Thank you in advance for your help.
Hi Ingrid,
Your question is outside of my expertise, as I can only speak to applying for a long-term residency card from the perspective of having spent five years on French soil. I will see if any of our other writers have any insights. Sorry, I’m not of greater help.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for this super useful article!
I had a question on my situation and hope you can throw some light on it.
I’m on a blue card but got laid off last year so currently I’m not earning any income. Next year, I’m eligible for the 10 year card. What documents can I submit when it comes to financial standing?
Thanks so much,
Rukkini
Hi Rukkini,
Here’s what is stated on the website: Proof of sufficient, stable and regular resources over the last 5 years: pay slips, tax notice, certificate of payment of pension, employment contract. Social benefits and allowances are excluded. https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F17359?lang=en
The key is to show that you have stable and regular resources. If you are not earning income, you may have a difficulty in applying for a 10-year card. Are you currently seeking employment?
Hi Molli,
I’m a recording artist that is signed to a U.S. record label/entertainment company. I will be composing and recording music in France for a project that will take more than a year to complete, in addition I want to move to France permanently. The record label/entertainment company will be paying me to compose and record the music as well as my living expenses. That said, music artists that are signed and paid advances and royalties or are comissioned to make music are considered self-employed independent contractors. So as a self employeed music artist who wants to get the long stay Talent Passport designated for self employeed artists, can I get the visa showing that I’m being paid by a u.s. company to do this music project in France, or do I need to show that I’m being paid by a French company/entity/individual? The music project would be created in France and the album would be released in France (with albums, singles / streaming, vinyl sales occurring in France) and there would be French lyrics, in addition to a global release in English. This project will truly be a French project that highlights French heritage and culture… so this would benefit France. But again, this project would be paid for by a U.S. based entertainment company, so any proof of income paid to me from this project would come from that source. Do you think I can qualify for the self-employed artist Talent Visa based on the info I’m providing? Your insight is much appreciated
Hi Nat, thanks for reading! Based on everything you’ve outlined here you have a good chance of being approved for the visa in my opinion as it sounds like your project is very much tied to France and French culture. If you’re paid an advance and it covers the French minimum wage for the entire time you plan to work in France then you could use that as proof that you’re able to support yourself. I hope this helps!
Hi Stephen,
I am a UK citizen, married to a French citizen who works in France as an opera singer for 2 months at a time. I am an employee of a London-based company. I would like to be able to work remotely for my company, from France, for less than 90 days, so that I can join my husband while he undertakes his contract.
My employer has been unable to agree to my request due to a (seeming) lack of clarity (or lack of availability of information) around remote working in France, questions around taxation (is my employer liable for tax in France?), a lack of digital nomad visa scheme, etc. They said I’d have to seek legal/taxation counsel to find out if it would be viable for me to work from France – even for just a short stay.
It’s a really frustrating situation – particularly when I previously lived in Paris for 2 years (pre-Brexit) and when my parents and sister live in France too!
Do you have any wisdom?!
Madeleine
As a UK citizen, you are permitted to come into the EU for 90 days every 180 days.
France cannot bar you from continuing to work for your UK company during your visit to the EU. They have neither the legal nor the moral power to do so.
If your company refuses to allow you to do so, you can always tell them you are simply going “abroad” and not specify where you will be precisely, only that you’ll be reachable. 🙂
That’s all the wisdom I have on offer 🙂
Hello Stephen and other readers,
I just wanted to leave a comment thanking you for this resource! My long-stay visitor visa was approved for France. I followed this guide and the steps listed in another article from this website, “How to Get a Long Term Stay Visitor Visa (VFS and Covid-19 edition).”
I work remotely and I submitted a letter from my employer with my visa application that stated my move to France for the remainder of 2024 would not change my employment status with my company. I also submitted a letter declaring that I wouldn’t search for a job while in France.
Make sure to have all the documents listed for your VFS appointment, and you should be good to go! Excited to be in France soon! 😀
Congrats Zack!
Hello Luke and other readers,
I just wanted to leave a comment thanking you for this resource! My long-stay visitor visa was approved for France. I followed the steps from this guide and also read another article on this website, “Can I (Legally) Work Remotely in France?”
I work remotely and I submitted a letter from my employer with my visa application that stated my move to France for the remainder of 2024 would not change my employment status with my company. I also submitted a letter declaring that I wouldn’t search for a job while in France.
Make sure to have all the documents listed for your VFS appointment, and you should be good to go! Excited to be in France soon! 😀
Hi Zack, thanks for the comment, it’s great to hear another success story. You did exactly as I and many others have done, and have confirmed once again the validity of this approach. Welcome (soon) to France!
Hi Zack,
I’m in the same situation. Do you know how this affects our taxes? Should we have our company continue withholding taxes as they’ve been doing, and then also file a tax return in France? This part is really stressing me out. Thanks.
Hi JPJ, I see Stephen already replied to your question in the other post:
https://theamericaninparis.com/2024/11/07/us-taxes-for-americans-living-in-france/
Hi Molli,
Thank you for the response and all of the great info you provide! Since the Talent Passport is issued up to 4 years, and when you say “If you’re paid an advance and it covers the French minimum wage for the entire time you plan to work in France then you could use that as proof that you’re able to support yourself”… with that in mind, am I supposed to show 3 months of bank statements that proves I earn per month at least 70% of the French monthly minimum wage OR am I supposed to show that I currently have a bank balance equivalent to 1 years worth of 70% of France’s annual minimum wage, or is it 4 years worth being that the Talent Visa is issued up to 4 years and my spouse and I will be making France our permanent home? Also, this Talent Visa allows my spouse to join me… but I did not see any requirements for proof of income for a spouse at the official French Visa site with their Visa Wizard. Just want to make sure… am I/ we supposed to show proof of income for 2 people?
Lastly, we are definitely interested in getting a consultant being that the Talent Visa is just one of many things we’ll be needing for our move to France. We have built three different recording studios over the years in Los Angeles for the recording projects that we and our record label do, so we’ll also be building another professional recording studio in France. Between visas, moving, renting/buying property, continuing to learn French, getting rooted and building a life in France, while also composing, recording and completing the music project, I’m thinking a consultant in our corner could make life and work easier. Anyway, your thoughts and guidance are much appreciated!
Nat, it sounds like you would benefit from a consultation 🙂 sending you an email now!
Hi,
My wife and I moved from Maryland to France seven years ago. We both tried to exchange our Maryland drivers licenses for French. Mine was approved and my wife’s was lost long enough for them to tell us that it was too late to exchange and she had to start over again. Now, seven years later, shehas passed the code and is taking driving lessons to be able to take the driving test. My question is, can she continue to drive our car on her unexpired Maryland drivers license while she is doing this? The driving instructor told her that it was absolutely forbidden, and she could be put in jail if she were caught. I am unclear what the ramifications are if she continues to drive.
Rick
I don’t know why you would believe that any country would allow you to drive on another country’s driver’s license when you’ve been resident there for 7 years.
My advice, especially so close to her taking the driving test, is not to risk it. Even if it’s not jail, do you really want to pay a fine, which will not be a small one?
I share Mr. Heiner’s advice here.
Yes, it is rare to be controlled by the police if you do not commit any violations.
Yes, commonly, the French police are lenient about these situations involving Americans.
This does not offset the fact that this is a felony as you are driving without any valid license in France. The cases I am familiar with through my clients ended up having the car pounded right there and there is a hefty fine to be paid, and the money paid to get the car out of the pound.
Hi Stephen,
Came across your website in a moment of panic and am glad to have found it!
I picked up my titre de séjour card in Paris today, only to realise it already expires next week (lol). I checked for convocations in my prefecture right away and booked the next available — 2 months after expiration.
I know this is an older post, but wanted to share my research in case it helps anyone else that finds your page for the same panicked reasons — especially since it seems most prefectures no longer take walk-ins.
I’d suggest seeing if Article L433-3 applies to the situation — it did for mine. With proof of a convocation + expired card, your rights to work and stay in France appear to be protected for 3 months, so long as you made the request for renewal before expiry.
My card expires within 15 days, so my HR department also advised that I apply for a récépissé online here, explaining the gap and attaching evidence of my convocation and soon to be expired titre de séjour: https://www.prefecturedepolice.interieur.gouv.fr/form/formulaire-justification-droit-a
Really glad to have found this support page, thanks for all of your helpful tips!!
Chris
Glad we could help and thanks for the link 🙂
Hi,
I have a 4 years carte bleue européenne expiring in 2027. Can I apply for 10 years long term card with A2 level certificate before expiry of my current card.
Thanks for your reply in advance.
If you have five years of continuous residence in 2027 because you had another visa prior to this, sure. Otherwise, no.
Hi Gracie,
Thanks for this very detailed process! Everything seems very clear to me, except for one detail: providing the partner’s French passport. How would that work in a situation like ours? I am an American citizen with Irish citizenship through my mother, and I have an Irish passport. My children also have Irish passports. My husband only has an American passport. If my family moves to France, would my Irish passport suffice to apply for my husband’s VPF? If not, what would I need to do in order to show French nationality? Thank you!
Hi Aine,
Thanks for reading, and that’s an interesting question.
In my understanding, one of the partners needs to be French to apply for a VPF. I would take some time to look into the visas available for those with Irish citizenship to live in France. In determining that, you’ll have a better sense of what you need to do to include your husband (and his American passport) in your application process.
Best of luck
Hi Stephen,
I have dual citizenship (USA/France) and will be moving to France this summer long-term. While I obviously can work in France, my qualifications mean that it’s easier for me to find work in the US. I’m trying to figure out if it would be better for me to try to work remotely for a US employer or to set myself up as an “auto entrepreneur” and work freelance for US employers. I think that in the first scenario, I would pay taxes and contribute to Social Security in the US. In the second, I would do both in France. Is there anything that you can add? I saw in an earlier post that you advised against setting up a business in France. Can you explain a little bit more why?
Thanks!
Colette
I don’t know why you would set yourself up as an auto-entrepreneur to work for an American employer. There’s an income cap for that tax classification.
I advised against setting up a business in France because it’s a very unfriendly place to do business. You have a golden ticket already in a French citizenship. Just set up a US business and pay what you want (based on how you compensate yourself) to US social security.
To get any French pension benefits you’ll need to work in your new French business for at least 15-20 years, and even then, the rewards are not that handsome.
Trust me on this: don’t set up a French business…it’s simply not worth it. You won’t derive any benefits from it. I only set mine up so that I could obtain citizenship and I will be shutting it down immediately after receiving it (if I do).
Thanks so much for your quick reply. And sorry for not acknowledging it sooner! I’ve been busy and am only just now getting back to this… My question based on your answer is then what do I do for health care while I’m in France but paying taxes in the US? I guess private health insurance? But it would be a somewhat bitter pill to swallow as a French citizen. One of the benefits of having residency/citizenship is public healthcare, but it’s only for those employed in France.
Colette
I don’t know how you as a French citizen don’t know that health care in France is tied to residency, not citizenship. You can learn more here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/12/13/how-to-get-a-numero-provisoire/
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for all the informative work you do here. My question is slightly different, I am about to renew my long stay visitor visa for the first time (it runs out in July) and I will supply my french tax return and my last three month’s pay slips, but I haven’t been called for my medical yet. I’ve sent two chasing emails with no response. What do you suggest is the next best step? Can I apply for the renewal without it?
Olivia
I don’t understand…why would the French care about your pay slips for a visitor renewal? Don’t include what is not asked for.
The bigger problem is that you have not been to OFII which will likely lead to a rejection of your renewal. I’ll send a connecting email with someone who might be able to help.
My suspicion is that you might not have checked “12 months+” for length on your original visa application, hence did not get a renewable visa, which means you never needed to go to OFII and hence were not given an invite. If this is the case, you will need to repeat the entire process over by applying for a visa and this time checking the right box, making your visa renewable.
I wanted to give you an update on this. I submitted the application for my visa renewal anyway without the medical certificate within 2 months of the visa end date. I ended up going directly to the place for the medical consultation when it opened at 8:30am and was treated really nicely and spoke to someone who booked my appointment for a few weeks later. I had the appointment all good, got the certificate (but didn’t do anything with it) and then was approved for the visa renewal a couple of weeks later. Now need to go to the Prefecture to chase down the final thing – I think I need to get hold of the carte de sejour, or pay something but all in all, it’s fine!
Thanks for the update 🙂
Hi Chris,
I have an urgent question / i have a 10 year visa in France, which i renewed 2 years back, having lived here for 14 years in 2 streches of 7 years each. I am employed in France, however right now im getting a job offer in China. Can i move there? I know I can but the question is i have just thought about applying for my French nationality partly due to my lack of French language skills / assuming that i cross the language hurdle, can i still apply for Frency nationality even if i take up the China job?
Hello! Our team doesn’t have the capacity to answer this question, so I just sent an email (with you CC’d) to an immigration lawyer who we work with frequently. Hopefully he’ll be able to help 🙂
Hello. Thank you for the nice post. In November 2023 as part of my milestone birthday celebration, I took a trip to Paris. My AirBnB was in Garges-les-Gonesse, le banlieu, but from there it was easy to get to St. Denis and then access le metro for Clichy/Monmartre. It’s my favorite place in the world for all the reasons you gave. I’m now trying to figure out how to live there for a year (apprendre plus francais for one thing!).
Can you recommend that agency that specializes in renting apartments to foreigners? Thank you!
Hi Patrycja, I would check https://hipparis.com/rentals/!
Hello Chris,
Thank you, this information is super helpful as I can’t find it anywhere else.
I’m just wondering since it’s been several months if you have received your 10year residency permit yet?
Also, if a person applying is over 65 years old, do they need to pass the language test?
Hi Catherine. I am glad to hear that this information was helpful.
As to your question as to whether I’ve received my 10-year residency card yet? Unfortunately, no. It’s been eight months since I submitted my application and I’m guessing it will be a few more before I get word of it being approved. As I’ve talked to other foreigners, the common experience is that most Prefectures in the country are running really slow on applications.
I have received three attestions de prolongation de droits (each valid three months) while I wait. This document allows me to continue residing legally in France while I wait for my application to be approved and it allows me to travel in and out of the Schengen area. I received the first just before my carte de sejour was about to expire, and the other two just before the attestations were about to expire. It is nice that these processes seem to be automated now, which is a huge difference compared to before.
A quick look shows that anyone over the age of 65 who is applying for the 10-year residency card is not subject to the language proficiency requirements. Here’s a link (click on the “You’re over 65” tab to see the exception): https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F34501?lang=en
Hi Gracie,
Are you allowed to apply for vie privée one month before your visa long sejour expires or did I miss that 2-4 month window? So stressed!!
Hi Anika, apologies for our late response here. You can apply for your visa when you’re ready – if you miss that window but you have all of the proper paperwork needed, you’ll just have to pay a late fee. Hope this helps!
Hi Gracie! Thanks for a detailed description. I have a question about:
1. CERTIFICAT DE NON-DISSOLUTION DE PACS. How long does it take to receive the document?
2. COPY OF PACS, is this the CERFA N15726*02 document where both of us signed? I only have this original document, and a recepisse. We got pacsed last year 2023.
Hi Angelina, thanks for reading and apologies for the late response here. It’s hard to say how long it will take to receive the certificate – if you’ve spent an extended period of time in France you know that timelines on these sorts of administrative tasks are hard to predict ;). And yes, the copy of your PACS is the document you signed. If you’re concerned that you don’t have the correct forms, I would contact the town hall where you were PACS’d and just ask them for a copy of the certificate. Hope this helps!
Hi, Stephen, my name is CJ. My inquiry doesn’t have anything to do with obtaining the French citizenship. Nevertheless, I’m planning to move to Paris suburb area this August and I desperately need some help with finding an accommodation for my family of 4. I thought I’d ask you for some tips/leads. Many thanks.
Hi CJ
I emailed you about a possible resource privately.
Hi CJ, hopefully you are further along now but if you are not, I have found LongtermRentalsInFrance.com to be particularly helpful, myself. I hope you find what you need! Joyeux Noel!
Hello Chris,
You seem to have quite a level of expertise and thanks a ton for sharing your experiences.
I was wondering if a sufficient income from pole emploi counts as a stable source of income to be eligible for the 10 year resident card. Also, should a french university diploma suffice for the language proficiency?
Thanks a lot
Regards,
Sam
Hi Sam,
Thank you for your kind words. I am not an immigration lawyer, but I do have the personal experience going through the process of renewing 1 year visitor visas and have applied for my 10-year residency card.
Here are the specific requirements on the proof of income: “Proof of sufficient, stable and regular resources over the last 5 years: pay slips, tax notice, certificate of payment of pension, employment contract. Social benefits and allowances are excluded.” https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F17359?lang=en
If the documents you can get from pole emploi fit this criteria, then they would be sufficient. In addition, as proof of your continual residency for the last five years, you will also need to provide your declaration d’impots sur les revenus which will show the stability of your income.
As for the language proficiency, a French university diploma will suffice. https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F34501
I hope this helps.
Hello Chris
Thank you for sharing your expertise.
In Oct 2024- I will have been a resident in France for 5 years. Arrived Oct 2019.
Can I apply for my 10 year card instead of another one year card this Oct?
Also is there any other way of providing continuous residency besides tax impôt?
As I arrived in Oct I didn’t file the first year. 2019. But I have the last 4.
Thank you.
Hi Paula,
Yes, you can apply for the ten-year card upon having been in France for 5 years. However, I don’t know that there is any other way to prove continuous residency other than the avis d’impots. I personally just got summoned to the prefecture for my fingerprints (finally after having submitted my application in September of last year) and they asked for my proof of language proficiency and my five avis d’impots as proof of continuous residency.
We will send an email to an immigration lawyer with whom we work frequently (and copy you into the conversation) and hopefully he can help.
Thanks Chris.
I do have residential leases for the entire period. And of course my yearly carte de séjours.
Good luck with the conclusion – aka- 10 year residence card in hand.
Paula
Ok, that may work, though I’m not 100% sure. Today, when I was at the prefecture, I found out that my wife’s language test is no longer valid (apparently, they only accept tests taken in the last two years, except for official diplomas), so she will have to take another proficiency exam. The agent told me she would just renew my wife’s 1-year card for now since it would take a good while for her to sit for an exam and get results. She can resubmit an application for the 10-year in a year as long as she passes her exam. Oh, and apparently the language requirements are going from A2 to B1 starting in 2025.
All that to say, if they don’t like your supporting documents, they can at least renew your 1-year card, until you have 5 years’ worth of avis d’imposition.
I also found out that the last step is an enquete de mairie (this is not on the official website). When I asked what that entailed, she just replied, “bah c’est une enquete de mairie.” All I know is that it could take up to two months.
I’ll try to update my post with this new information.
Best of luck,
Chris
Hello Chris,
Thank you for this detailed article. I had been struggling to find more information about the EU long-term residency permit and was very interested to read about your experience applying for it.
I have one quick question regarding proving five years of residency. Do you know if years as a full-time student with no income can be counted towards the five-year total? Or should I start counting from the moment I started working in France following my graduate degree?
Many thanks in advance.
Great question, Anna. I would think that the five years start when you start legally residing in France regardless of your reason for coming, but I don’t know for sure. I am copying and pasting below what is on the Service Public site, but we will forward your question to an immigration lawyer we work closely with and copy you in so that you can get a clearer answer.
If you have been legally and continuously resident for at least 5 years in France or have a European Blue Card, you can obtain a Resident Mention Card long-term resident – EU. You must also meet other conditions to obtain it (resources, health insurance, integration). This card allows you to stay in other countries of the European Union. It is valid for 10 years and is renewable.
I have recently imported a 1971 car from the UK. I have the FFVE attestation and have moved on to ANTS, waiting for immatriculation. Will I be allocated a registration in the ‘old’ format ending 01 for my department or will I get a ‘new’ format plate?
The question came in on whether once the State accepts collector’s status, what happens to the license plate.
You will get a whole new license plate, with a whole new number and a whole new “carte grise”. This means you will have to have new license plates made up, silver on black so that the car is immediately recognizable to be seen as a collector’s car and that you are allowed to drive it anywhere anytime.
I ordered from Rebelcar, which allows you to choose the form of the plate. You can choose to pay extra for screws and holes if you want to install it yourself. On the other hand I had it unfitted and my repair shop had the equipment to place it perfectly on my car:
https://www.rebelcar.fr/plaques-immatriculation-noires-collection.htm
Hi Chris,
As of this article you stated that you have been waiting 3 months with no response… how long did it ultimately take?
I have been waiting for 5 months. I also received a notice of “prolongation d’instruction,” which has expired (I am struggling to renew it). I emailed the préfecture and service for Étrangers en France, and was told to “just be patient.”
The reason for the pronlgation is indicated as “saisine d’un tiers ou ênquete,” which I take to mean they are trying to contact my employer.
I’m not sure how long I should wait before contacting a lawyer, or if that would be of any good. Perhaps you have some advice!
Best,
Melissa
Hi Melissa,
Thanks for your question. I’d love to say that I have my card in hand, but I don’t as of yet. I applied at the end of September, so here I am at 9 months into the process and still waiting. Thankfully, I’ve received attestations de prolongation de droits on multiple occasions and mine have never expired (I think I am on my 4th one). I thought that the etrangers en France website must have automated that process (would make sense to do so), but I guess that’s not the case if yours haven’t renewed.
I did, just this past week, go to the prefecture because I was summoned to have my fingerprints taken. I thought this was the last step, but the agent notified me that an enquete en mairie would be the last step. When I asked what the enquete en mairie entailed, she simply replied, “bah, c’est une enquete en mairie.” Real helpful, right? She said it should take a maximum of 2 months. I’m guessing they want to make sure that I am not causing trouble in my community, but honestly, I am not sure. There are no details, that I have found on the enquete on any of the sites I’ve scoured. I’m hoping that by the end of the summer I will receive notice that my card is ready, though I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes a little longer than that.
You’re five months in, so at this point I wouldn’t worry, though you are always welcome to consult with an immigration lawyer (we have one we work closely with if you would like his info) should you want the reassurance of a professional. The wait is long and frustrating, I know. To me, the biggest challenge for you is that your attestation de prolongation d’instruction is not renewed. I wouldn’t worry about that unless you are hoping to travel abroad and your current titre de sejour is expired. Keep records of the “just be patient” response, just in case you have to show your titre de sejour at any point.
I hope this helps a bit,
Chris
Hi Chris!
First of all thank you for such detailed information, it really much needed.
Could you tell me how was your last rdv at the prefecture? Did they ask you any question or it was only for fingerprints? Did you bring the documents you submitted before?
Hi Kira, thanks for your kind comment. I have a rdv at the prefecture at the end of the month, which will be 9 months after having gotten my fingerprints taken. Unfortunately, for whatever reason my 10-year card was refused. I suspect it has to do with the new language testing requirements- I personally submitted my brevet des colleges which in the past had been accepted as proof of language- and I’ve even heard that there is possibly a new “journee civique” potentially required. Thankfully, my 1-year visitor card was renewed so at least I’m still legal here. The only thing I’ve been told is that I can talk to the agent instructeur on the day of rdv. I may see if I can do a recours gracieux but I’m counting on having to start the whole process again 4 months from the end of this new card I’m about to receive.
I will write a dedicated post on the whole experience once I pick up my 1-year card. By the time I pick it up it will have been over 18 months since I started the process.
Hello,
The ANEF portal is a disgrace. I’ve yet to receive any ADP certificate and my residence permit is now expired. The prefecture does nothing in response. The response from ANEF is the same one you receive Melissa. Just be patient! Okay let’s be patient while I lose my job, rights to work, unable to support my 2 children and wife who are all French citizens. What an absolute joke. Same thing happened to me 2 years ago for my renewal before the ANEF, except my card was ready 6 months before they contacted me to receive it; after I repeatedly tried to contact them and inquire about the status. Just enough time to lose your job again.
Chris – what is your magic secret with the ANEF online service? It seems flawless for you, but when you read on the governments complaint board, there are severe problems for many people.
Thanks for the 10 year walkthrough though. If only I can get that ADP. I need to work and travel to the States, we have a house there still and planning to sell it soon. But now I can’t travel.
Best,
James
Hi James,
I’m sorry for the trouble you are having with the process. The ANEF online service is far from flawless. While it made submitting the application more streamlined, I am coming up on the anniversary of submitting my application and still have not received my card. However, I have received multiple attestations de prolongation d’instruction, seemingly automatically whenever the previous one was set to expire, which has kept up to date my legal rights to reside in France and travel (I’m on a visitor card so I don’t yet have rights to work in France). Have you consulted with an immigration lawyer? Would you like us to put you in touch with one?
Best,
Chris
Hi Stephen,
This, along with all the comments, have been such a great read. Thank you.
I am both a French and American citizen who is currently working remotely for an American company. I’d like to move to France (say for less than 6 months though I am interested in staying longer) but I am unsure of the tax implications; primarily for my company. They are okay with me working in France, however not ‘officially’ – I just don’t want to cause issues for them if I end up needing to file a french taxes.
My question is when would I qualify for tax residency in France? Would I even need to file taxes in France if am getting all of my income from the American company I work for?
Again, thank you! I apologize as I know parts of this have been address already
Luc
The people who object to remote work would tell you you would still have to register as a fiscal resident. However, given numerous conversations I’ve had with French accountants, as opposed to anonymous Karens on social media, I’m confident in the 183 day rule; if you’re not here for longer than six months, don’t worry about it (classic scenario: student here for a study abroad semester…the French do not chase down such people for tax filings). If you are here for 183 days in a Jan-Dec calendar year, you need to file.
In this case, what would the potential impact be for the company (my husband is working remotely for his company, trying to fly under the radar, and will be in France for longer than the 183 days)?
Margaux I cannot speak for what the company’s responsibilities are in regard to where their remote employees are located. I trust that they employ staff to research that for themselves. I’m here to point out to people that it is not illegal to work remotely in France and that you’re still obliged to file taxes in France past 183 days even if you don’t have income in France and won’t pay taxes here.
Hi Molli,
This information is extremely helpful! I will be applying for a student visa soon taking French courses. Just to confirm to receive a student visa for this it has to be at a FLE verified org or center. Is it normal to pay a couple thousand for the year courses in France? I am looking in Marseille if you have any recommendations or advice. Thanks!
Hi Kyleigh, thanks for reading! Yes, in order to receive the student visa the school/center/organization must be FLE accredited. I think the prices have gone up substantially since I was a student, and I have heard that they are a few thousand. I don’t have any specific recommendations for Marseille, but I do know they have several programs there. I hope this helps!
I’m really curious about your reasons for not wanting to live in the 6th anymore. I’m in the process of trying to get a handle on the different arrondissements and your blog has been super helpful for orienting me, except its telling me the good stuff in the neighborhood, not the reasons why i wouldn’t want to live there 🙂
Hi Michel, thanks for reading! I felt that the 6th was a little too residential for my taste – when I moved I was looking for a more lively and vibrant neighborhood which is why I love living in the 18th. The 6th is great for families and people who want to live at a slower pace. I hope this helps 🙂
Thank you for your incredibly helpful post! I have one clarifying question:
My wife has a job in Paris, and I work remotely. My understanding is that I would receive automatically a Passeport talent-chercheur residence permit using a simplified procedure (famille accompagnante) to come with her to France.
The Passeport talent (famille) visa gives me the right to work in France, but I am working for a US company. Will what you write in this post apply to me? You seem to be only talking about Long-term visas, and Profession Liberale visas 😮
thank you, your reply means a lot to me!
If I
Michel
The question is not about a certain type of visa, but whether it is broadly permissible to work remotely in France. My contention always has been, yes, no matter what visa classification you have.
Myself and my wife are US citizens, she received a job offer in Paris. She will be getting a visa through them (Passeport talent-chercheur), because we are married I can use the simplified procedure (famille accompagnante) to come with her to France. I would get a multi-year residence permit via the Passeport talent (famille) visa.
What I’m unclear on is if I have that visa, will I be able to work remotely for a US company? There is this helpful post on this site: https://theamericaninparis.com/2022/11/25/can-i-legally-work-remotely-in-france/ but it doesn’t talk about the Passeport talent (famille), which makes me worried that I cannot do the same with that visa. Do you have any ideas?
Hi again Michel, answering your question from our other post here to keep everything organized. All of the advice in our article on working remotely in France applies to your situation. I hope this helps!
Good morning,
Just to advise I also received my Long Stay Visiter Visa. Advised working remotely for UK Company, while living in France. Letter from my employer to authorise this, together with payslip.
I do have a question around Social Security contributions. Does my employer pay these if I have paid for 12 health insurance? If so when?
Thank you
Bettina
Your UK employer has nothing to do with contributing to the French health care system.
Thank you. I understand I will need to continue my contributions to the UK(NHS) and 8% of my global net income for my French social security charges.
Thank you
Thank you.
That was one of the most well-written and insightful articles I have come across in a while. Lately I seem to find articles that are either stories of “moving overseas gone wrong” or just the opposite, promising you a fun utopian lifetime vacation if you simply move overseas.
My daughter, son-in-law and 16-month-old grandchild are moving to Portugal July 18th or in about 2 weeks. My wife and I will escort them to Portugal, help them get settled and then we will head to France for a scouting trip for our move. (We do not want to be that far away from our one and only grandchild). Our plan is to follow them In August of 2025. Due to the Portuguese tax structure, we are not able to re-locate to Portugal, so we are moving to the South of France which will enable us to fly to Porto quickly and affordably.
I have often wondered how my grandchild will develop, and for that matter how me and my wife may grow and evolve as we are planning on a long potentially permanent stay. Your article gave me a little insight.
PS: Love “bi-cultural” makes way more sense.
Thank you again for putting out quality content.
Sincerely,
Greg W. Andersen
Seattle WA
Thank you, Gregory, for your kind words. I have known people who have done just like you, moved to France to be near children and grandchildren, following their lead. And they, too, have made a life for themselves.
In my opinion (and, of course as a linguist) the most important act toward bi cultural is learning the language. There are “clans” of English speakers in the south of France who do not learn French, and somehow they never really integrate their chosen environment.
I have also been thinking about your grandchild. Having written my thesis on child bilingualism I can only encourage your daughter to speak (only!) English to her baby. It is not always easy to hold onto a minority language in a mostly monolingual country, but it is worth the effort in brain power for the child. You have incited me to write an article on this most important subject.
Wishing you an enriching move.
Hello Stephen. Thanks for this very useful post! A little question that I can’t seem to find the answer to anywhere: I’m trying to figure out whether my birth certificate submitted with the application (or for anything, really, I also ran into this when I considered getting married) needs to be less than 3 months old, as is required for French documents, and whether the apostille needs to be on the actual document copy, or/and on the translated version? The language on the service-public site is just so geared towards French documents that sometimes it’s hard to decipher… Any light shed on this would be super helpful! Thanks again for all your great content 🙂
As far as I know, the birth certificate does not have be “under three months old.” Mine was accepted and was a certified copy of the original, which makes it as old as I am, which is more than 90 days 🙂
As far as I know, they are much less strict than they used to be about the 3-month rule for birth certificates. This language has been removed from the document checklists I’ve seen online. But as I’m sure you already know, rules in the French administration are not always applied consistently.
I am not applying for French citizenship until early next year and have already obtained birth certificates for myself and my parents. I’m Canadian and Global Affairs Canada can take several months to issue the apostille alone, so 3 months isn’t a realistic expectation in my case.
I contacted a certified translator asking whether translation should be done before or after the apostille. They said after.
agree on translation after apostille
Hello,
I read your article and have also posted in some different FB groups about moving to France. I mentioned that I am planning on continuing my remote work (I work remote now in the US) while living in France. People went crazy like you said they would…but to double check that YOU were right, I simply emailed the consulate and asked. They said, “remote work is tolerated”. I just want to make sure I understand this is my process: Continue to work remotely, pay US taxes, file a tax return in France but I will not owe taxes in France because my income is not derived from working for a French company? How would I make a payment or how do they asses the amount I should pay if we sign up for the French healthcare system? Or should I just continue to use the healthcare policy I signed up for to meet the visa requirements? Hope this makes sense. Thank you.
Dayna I don’t understand your question: “how would I make a payment”?
The French tax return is not directly related to your Assurance Maladie, should you sign up for it.
Learn more here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2016/05/16/taxes-again/
https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/12/13/how-to-get-a-numero-provisoire/
Hi Luke!
You are a true wealth of information on the VLS-TS.
I have a couple of quick questions if you don’t mind:
I see the health insurance requirement for the VLS-TS is like $30,00 of coverage with no deductible. Would a normal travel insurance policy like Allianz work? It has a very high insurance amount along with repatriation if needed. If not do you know of anyone that will write a policy that’s France specific (that meets the visa requirements) that I can cancel after three months and move to the French healthcare system?
Second question is about accommodations. My wife and I would ideally like to travel all over France looking for the right place for us to live so we will likely be AirBNBing for several months and will not have a permanent address with a 12 month lease that I can provide. Would they accept a letter explaining that? Any other ideas about making something like that work?
Thanks for all the help you have provided the community!
Hi Jeff, so far as I can see the Allianz Care Global Health Insurance plan with the optional repatration add-on meets the requirements and should work fine. You will want to get a plan for 12 months since you need to show coverage for the entire length of your stay, which under the visitor visa is one year at a time.
As for travelling around without a fixed address, this is a question that comes up from time to time and the answer is that a nomadic lifestyle is not compatible with the demands or even conecpt of a residency visa. Although you can get the visa without having your final address nailed down, you do need to nail one down fairly quickly after arrival. You will find administrative tasks impossible to manage without a fixed mailing address and your ability to prove that you live there.
The best way to do exploration before hand, which is not at all a bad idea, is simply to come to France with your passport, with which you can remain for 90 days (I assume you are from the US). No visa or anything else required, just get on a plane. You will have to return to the US afterwards to apply for the visa, but by then you may at least have an idea of what town you want to live in.
But once you come here with your visitor residency visa, you need to have a town picked out, get an apartment there as soon as you can after arrival if you weren’t able to rent one in advance, and basically tell yourself that you’ll be there a year. Of course you are not a prisoner, you can move if you have to, and certainly you can travel as much as you want from your home base. But you have to think of yourself as a resident, and live as one.
First I want to say THANK YOU! This article has helped me an and you are truly kind for writing it and helping people. I had a question regarding my situation if you have time to answer I would deeply appreciate it.
I’m a US citizen who moved to France with my US citizen husband one week ago. We have a year lease in France and we both work Fully remote for a non-French affiliated US company. We came here on the Long-Stay tourism visa and have no plans to stay here forever (maybe a year or two) so don’t care about paying into the tax system for residency/citizenship/retirement purposes. Neither of us have (or plan to have) French bank accounts and we have travel insurance through IMG that we pay monthly and have no plans to benefit from the French healthcare system. We plan to stay in France from July 1 2024 to July 1 2025 at least (which is what our current renewable visa allows). We plan to spend a month total of that time in the U.S. (two weeks in December two weeks in May) and another month of that time (possibly) traveling around on weekends around Europe. In previous tax years in the U.S we have filed as 1099s (self-employed/independent contractors) because we technically are that even though we both primarily work for one company, this allows us to do write offs to make our taxes a bit lower in the U.S. our employer is willing to make us an employee for tax purposes but we have not done this in the past. To apply for the visa we had to show our bank statements, pay stubs, and work contracts, together (before taxes) we make about 90k. We know that as a U.S. citizen you have to pay taxes no matter where you live and that the U.S. has a treaty so that you are not double taxed.
however, I’m primarily wondering if I have to pay French taxes, and if it would be most beneficial for me to ask my main employer to make me an employee or to stay at the status I am currently. I do not want to break the law, but I also don’t want to screw over my employer or myself for no reason. Also, now I have so many people telling me I’m here illegally but i genuinely didn’t even know this was a controversy till after I had arrived. I had no plans to hide income/my job/my life from the French embassy. I explicitly gave them my work contract showing my work would be continued in France- I’m scared- I don’t want to do anything wrong. Do you all have any recommendations? I’m happy to provide as much information as possible! Thank you thank you thank you for taking the time to read this and provide any advice!
“We came here on the Long-Stay tourism visa and have no plans to stay here forever (maybe a year or two) so don’t care about paying into the tax system for residency/citizenship/retirement purposes.”
You’re not eligible to pay into the benefit system. You aren’t fiscally connected with that system, so there’s no way for you to pay.
“Neither of us have (or plan to have) French bank accounts.”
You better get one asap as it’s an important part of renewing your visa. Read more here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2018/10/12/yes-you-should-get-a-french-bank-account/
“We have travel insurance through IMG that we pay monthly and have no plans to benefit from the French healthcare system.”
You can benefit from the healthcare system as a resident. Learn more here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/12/13/how-to-get-a-numero-provisoire/
You do not have to pay French taxes but fiscal residents (which you now are) are required to file taxes. Learn more here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2016/05/16/taxes-again/
“I’m scared.”
Don’t let the haters get you down. They love giving “bad news” to people.
Stephen, thank you for this post and bringing me back to sanity on a recurring basis! I come here to read this every time someone tells me I can’t work in France for a US Company while on a LTS Visa. It’s maddening. It’s like I’m trapped in some bizarre nightmare filled with Eyes-Wide-Shut rejects all chanting, “ You must also formally agree not to engage in any professional activity during your stay in France. You must also formally agree not to engage in any professional activity during your stay in France. You must also formally agree not to engage in any professional activity during your stay in France.” as they circle around me more and more tightly. Scary.
There are some really grim resources out there, and some forums that seem to delight in naysaying, so your whole site is a breath of rational and positive fresh air. When I get closer to my departure date, I will definitely be singing up for the course to quell the fear and agony on a regular basis (so many things to do, so many possible things to screw up!).
Elle
I will never figure out these people. They have yet to produce a single example of anyone being sanctioned as they threaten will happen.
I think that some people just really, really like to be grim reapers. On one blog I saw people offering up expert advice like “start your own small business” or “rent an office” – exactly the worst things to do. I suggested professional, competent help and referred them to your website.
Hello , i want to start my micro entrepreneur(Restaurant or fast food)in Paris here but i dont know how to go about writing of business plan for my bank for the loan , can you help me how to write it privately, please . Thank you .
Steve
A restaurant is not eligible for a profession liberale visa. That’s a freelancer visa with an income cap. If you’d like help with opening a restaurant, I know an attorney who can help. Use our contact form on the website and I will connect you.
Hi Stephen
I had obtained my one year VLS-TS (visitor) when I was unemployed and may start a job that offers remote working from another country (which does have a double tax treaty with France). As my partner is French there is a possibility I seek to renew my visa or to stay in France for longer. What do you suggest to be the next steps? To contact my consulate and update them on the information? Could I clarify that in your experience it was fine for people to report remote working and obtain a visa on this basis as long as they report their income (foreign sourced) on a tax return? Could you please also recommend any accountants / tax advisor in this regard? Thank you so much for being always so informative.
HT
As already noted, France has no moral or legal right to prevent you from getting a remote job in another country, outside their legal jurisdiction. Do not inform the consulate (they don’t care anyway, as they aren’t in charge of taxes).
The article says that people have obtained visas (and others have confirmed so in the comments) while informing the French of that.
If you are interested in getting married, then that opens up a whole window of possibilities that makes things much easier for you.
I’ll send an email with possible accountant contacts.
What is the name of this beautiful cafe in Montmartre oh my. It so pretty
It’s called Léandrés 🙂 78, rue de Maubeuge, Paris, France 75009 !
Hi Gracie, thanks for this info. You mentioned you had 3 Long Stay Visa before applying for VPF. Did you return to the US during the end of those visas, or did you renew VLS TS in France (that means you did not return to US upon expiry).
My situation is that, i am PACSee for 6months now with my french partner. To apply to VPF you must be PACSee for 12 months. However my VLS TS visa will expire next month. I processed the renewal of my VLS TS 2 months ago with the new regulations online (ANEF). Unfortunately, there is no news or updates about the progress of my application, nor given the recipissé. I am afraid to overstay in France without my visa renewed.
My question is, can i renew or apply VLS TS in my country after I return and return to France as soon as possible and still apply for VPF after a year of out being PACSed? I worry because some said it should be uninterrupted 12 months. That means i should not leave France (but my visa is expiring soon).
I wish to be enlightened on this if you know some infos about my situation. Thank you in advance.
Hi Mary! Jumping in here – sorry for the late response. I’m going to connect you to an immigration lawyer with whom we work with frequently to see if he has any insight into your situation.
Hi Mary,
I had a similar situation happen to me. I started applying for my immigration rendezvous in May and was finally given an appointment for December…2 months after my visa expired.
I waited in line at the prefecture (for hours!) to ask what to do and the woman I talked to said that you enter an immigration limbo, where you are allowed to stay in the country because of your PACs but not allowed to re-enter the country, because you won’t have a valid visa for entry. She also said that returning to my home country would interrupt our 12 months of continuous shared life. Hope this helps.
I should clarify my situation as I have those ‘karens’ on FB telling me I will be arrested and fined. I am applying for the VLS-TS along with my husband. His income comes from a pension from a US government entity, and I plan on continuing to work for my US based company remotely. Can I bring my work contract to the visa meeting as proof of my employment or must I bring a letter from the company that explicitly states I will be working remotely? So if I understand it correctly, I can just keep things as they are, we pay all our taxes to the US, file a French tax return to declare the income we get, but I will not owe France any taxes? Do you know if there is a fee or a charge we may get if we sign up for the healthcare system? Thank you for your help.
Dayna
If you look at these comments you will see I am answering a variation of everything I have said in the article already, almost as if, “yes I read your article, but this is my special case.” 🙂
Firstly, ask the Karens to produce one single example of anyone ever being arrested and fined. Just one will suffice. If they can’t do so, they have no evidence for their claims. Even if they were to claim to be following the letter of the law, it’s clearly a law the French are not enforcing. (That’s the most generous interpretation I can offer the Karens).
Secondly, you only need to mention your income if your husband’s is insufficient to cover both of you. Otherwise, there’s no need to explain to the French your economic situation. If you make more money, perhaps you should be the lead on the visa and attach him as the spouse.
You can learn more about the healthcare system here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/12/13/how-to-get-a-numero-provisoire/
The visa application asks for my employment information. My husband’s retirement income is enough to satisfy the French visa requirements. Do I fill in my employer info but not offer my paystubs if we don’t need them to prove income or should I not fill in employer info?
Dayna don’t make it complicated just use your husband’s retirement income.
Hello Stephe,
Thank this is very detailed and super useful. I am trying to apply for my citizenship. I am an American citizen born in India. The issues that I am running into is getting my parent’s marriage certificate. The Marriage was not registered as it was not common practice in the 1960s in India. My father tried applying for it however he is unable to get one. Any idea what to do in this situation.
Thank you
Rakesh
Rakesh
I would try to speak with the Embassy and find out what other legal equivalent paperwork they have used in the past to overcome this problem, as you cannot have been the first person in this scenario.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Hello Molli,
I am American. I came to France last week on a tourist visa. I would like to stay and study. Will I have to leave France before I can stay. I also would like too work here too? Can I study online with a US program and still get a student visa or does it has to be a French school? I also want to learn French too.
Hi Sandra, thanks for reading! Yes, you’re correct you must go back to the US to apply for your student visa from there. Yes, you can work for any French company part-time when you are a student. You can not obtain a student visa for France for an online, US program. However, nothing is stopping you from doing a visa-granting French as a foreign language program to get the student visa (more info on that here) and then continuing to study online with your US school. I hope this helps!
Hi there, thanks for all the above good information. I have a question that I hope you can help with.
1. I’m an American with a 2nd home in France. I don’t intend to ever live there permanently. I travel there 2-3 times a year. Each time I stay 3-4 weeks . I have my California Driver’s License and a car that I bought used in France. As I come each time on a 90 day tourist visa, can I continue to use my CDL for as long as I renew it when it’s about to expire – even if I do this for the next 10-15 years?
Also, is there anything preventing me from getting a French driving license by taking written tests, lessons and a test?
1. Since you’re never a resident of France in this scenario, you never need a French license.
2. No, there’s nothing preventing you from this.
I’m an American currently living in France with a Long term Visitor Visa due to expire on the 19th of September. I applied on line on the Foreign nationals in France for the International Talent Artist Self employed Visa. I qualify as I am an accomplished oil painter whose genre is French dancers from the late 1800’s and early 1900’s, Josephine Baker is highlighted in my art, I’m also a children’s book author. I received a message from the Processing Agent from the Interior of France, closing my application siting that I cannot change my visa in France that I would have to renew the visitor visa or go to the French Consulate in the US to apply for the International Talent visa…but I live in France??? Any insight would be helpful
Hi Odean, thanks for reading! I’m going to put you in contact with an immigration lawyer with whom we work with often on this one via email as I’m not sure why you got that response!
Hi Chris, wondering if you could share here the Immigration attorney’s contact info? Need some advice for changing status of my resident permit. Thanks in advance!
Greetings Stephen,
Thank you for all the information appearing above; it has encouraged me to seek clarification on this particular wrinkle of the “remote” income discussion. My wife and I are nearing the end of our first year in France with VLS-TS Visiteur status. We have applied for Carte de Séjour and intend to retire here permanently on two small pensions and some savings. I always intended to reinvigorate my fine art practice once our permanent residency was established after five years, but it is becoming apparent that we could use additional income before then. I am a US citizen and would only sell my work in the US/collect USD to an American account.
The wrinkle involves my product’s physicality as it would be crafted in France (exclusively by me) and delivered to the US for sale. Most of the scenarios discussed above involve digital “work” output and not tangible goods. Would you kindly give your opinion as to whether my situation qualifies as remote work, thereby not violating the agreed to clause against commercial activity while in France? Thank you so much!
lol Todd the “wrinkle” you mention is the only relevant point! You can’t get any more “doing work in France” than crafting a physical product! I don’t know any system/country in the world that would consider physical crafting “remote work” 🙂
You’ll need to convert to Profession Liberale or Talent to do this legally, or do a digital product or service.
If you want help, don’t hesitate to reach out to our team using the contact us form.
Thank you for your quick response. I believe I could use help to navigate the change in status and will reach out to you in anticipation of our next renewal in 2025. Thanks again!
This is very interesting as I thought I would want the talent entrepreneur visa because it lasts for 4 years, but it is better to get the 1 – year entrepreneur visa and then renew for 4 years? I run a parent company formed in the US and am now starting a subsidiary in France, but with the intention of living there and building a life.
Madison
I’m afraid that you’ve misunderstood the PL visa as some equivalent to the Talent visa. It is not. If you want to start a subsidiary of an existing company, Talent is the way to go. PL is a freelancer visa with an income cap, which doesn’t sound like it fits you at all.
Stephen – what a great, concise article and thank you for bearing with some many people’s comments. I have one more for you if you don’t mind…
My context:
– I am a UK citizen and to date have been a UK tax resident. Going forward, I will no longer be a UK tax resident
My living arrangements:
– 1/2 time in France (less than 183 days)
– 1/3 time in the UK
– 1/6 time elsewhere (Spain & East Asia)
My work:
– Fully remote for non-French (mostly UK) companies
My plan
– Either use 90 / 180 day visa waiver (if total time in schengen permits), or get a long stay visateur visa
My questions:
1. Will I be a tax resident in France? My initial thought is no based on spending less than 183 days in France, but my concern is that France may argue my main home (foyer) is in France if it is single place I spend the most time (since the rest of my time is split
2. Are you required to file a tax return if and only if you are a tax resident in France? I’m assuming this is a “yes” but would appreciate a confirmation
Thank you again for everything I have already learned from you!
John
You are attempting Andrew Henderson’s “Nomad Capitalist” plan, in which you have no tax residence anywhere. I’m not going to comment on that here, but will focus on the French aspect.
1. If you want a long-stay visitor visa in France, a 12-month renewable, you will have to become tax resident in France, even if you are not physically there 183+ days a year. Any other long-stay visitor visa is nonrenewable and you will have to apply for a new one every year from your country of residence, which will not be considered France.
2. No, you can be required to file a French tax return if you make income in France and are not a resident, e.g. you own a rental property.
Thank you Stephen. On point (1), my living and work arrangements are still somewhat up in the air. If I apply for a long stay visa, and then end up spending the majority of my time in the UK (and hence be a tax resident there) and spend less than 183 days in France and don’t have it as my “foyer”, would having the renewable visa still make me a tax resident? If you could point me to anywhere where I can read more on that point that would be much appreciated!
If yes, it sounds like I should apply for a non-renewable visa. I noticed you referred to the “box” to check for that a few times but when I was looking at the visa form it wasn’t clear to me which box that is. Is it the box “Intended duration of stay on the territory of France”? I have unfortunately already submitted the form online with 12+ months — any idea on whether they would accept me changing that on the paper form before my appoinment?
John
You are going to need to produce a tax return as part of your renewal process. They may not ask for it your first renewal, but by the time you’re there for your second renewal (you will have “lived” in France two years at that point) they are going to ask for it.
You’re focusing on the 183 days as the determining factor. Remember that if you don’t actually do that, you can assert that you do. The French don’t care that you were there 164 days and declare as a tax resident. What I’m trying to highlight is that you need to be a tax resident in order to seamlessly renew your visa.
You can’t change the box you checked already (the 12+ months), which is for a renewable visa.
Dear Mr Heiner, For those who are 1st time renewing the visitor visa (with remote work) this year, the 2024 French tax declaration would be due to France in 2025 and asked for by the immigration department at the 2nd year (2025) of renewal because tax delcarations are a year behind– is this correct for France?
Thank you kindly.
Correct, and only if you were in France long enough. I arrived in France in December 2013 so I didn’t file my first return until 2015 for tax year 2014.
I am father of eu citizen I want to know my right thru my daughter.i am British citizen.i work in EU countries many years.
Nabil
I don’t know what your particular situation is.
When you say you “work in EU countries many years” this only would matter if you were in one of those countries for at least 5 years and speak that language at a B1/B2 level, etc. I don’t think citizenship can pass up from children, only down from parents, and then, not always.
I would research with an immigration attorney in any country you spent at least five consecutive years of residence.
Hello Stephen! The site has been really helpful so I thought I’d add a 2024 update:
Just moved to France on my exchange year (with the hope to convert it into a masters degree) – I tried Société Générale and LCL in order to get a first bank account.
Understandably this won’t apply to everyone, but my Grandes Écoles membership did help (they had special packages for students of the grandes écoles) and obviously speaking French helps.
I was surprised by how personal it was. The conseiller asked questions about life, plans etc. that HSBC couldn’t care less about. I thought this was quite a refreshing change from the impersonal banking I’m used to. (I lived in the UK prior to this and FATCA practically had no bearing for me – my accounts work normally there)
No one gave me a point-blank rejection. The SG conseiller had never done an American account before, and after filling the entire form, she told me it wouldn’t let her do it and she had to check and verify their rules before she could proceed. The LCL conseiller was a little more forthcoming and thought there would be lots of paperwork (past applications perhaps) but the only extra document her form requested was my SSN, which I am used to providing anyway for every bank account I have.
This too required approval from the directeur, which has yet to arrive, but I was quite reassured by the fact that they didn’t reject me outright. Now it hopefully will only be a matter of bureaucratic follow-up.
Thank you for all your help and advice!
AB
Thanks for this scoop! As you may remember, I’m NOT a fan of SG, and have only ever heard good things about LCL, but always willing to hear if someone has had a good experience with SG.
Awesome and thanks for the update!
I’m planning on working remotely while self-employed in France under a visitor visa. Do you have any tips on how to write my attestation accurately that I “will not work in France”? I’ve taken this to mean I will not pursue French employment but want to be sure I’ve written this accurately for my visa documents. Thank you!
Christine the wording is:
“I _______ will not exercise any paid professional activity in France.”
Really enjoyed reading. Very helpful and thanks for taking the effort.to write all the details. Could you share the details of your tutor please.
Aarthi
I sent a connecting email with you and Francois. Check spam if you don’t see it.
Hello my APS visa is expiring and I don’t have a job at the moment what can I possibly do to increase my stay in France?
Hi Shardul, if your APS is about to expire you have a few options: obtain a CDI or CDD contracted job, create your own business, or begin a research project… or, if you’re in a relationship with a French person or other European, you may want to have a serious conversation about marriage. Otherwise, you’ll have to go back to your home country. I hope this helps!
Hi Luke,
Thanks for the wealth of information!
Is the visitor visa no longer available to apply for online, on the France-visas website, or are we not seeing how to do it?
When trying to apply for the visa online, we only see 4 options for “Votre projet” :
Autre
Études
Installation familiale ou privée (majeur)
Installation familiale ou privée (mineur)
When selecting “Autre” the only available options After that for thé “Motif principal du séjour” are :
Ancien combattant
Jeune au pair
Volontariat
In addition to that, must one have proof of current employment, or is applying with plenty of savings and/or familial support+savings acceptable for the visitor visa?
Also curious what you think of the new “visa assistance” option VFS offers for 44 USD and whether you’ve heard anything good/bad about that–we submitted a request around 2-3 weeks ago and haven’t heard back from that service at all.
Thanks!!!
Hi Kara, the Visiteur option is still available, but you seem to have encountered the same hiccup that Jourdie did a bit higher up in these comments. When I create an account, I can see the four options you describe in the Votre Projet drop-down, but scrolling down *within* that drop-down box even more are revealed, including at the very end “Visiteur.” This drop-down is only populated after you have filled out all the other information on that page first (Votre situation, Votre séjour, Votre document de voyage). But frankly I believe the site is just a little buggy and it would seem that you are not the first to have a problem with that drop-down box. Perhaps you can try refreshing the page, or try using a different browser (for whatever it’s worth I’m using Chrome). And I would certainly do this on a computer rather than a phone. Please let us know whether you are able to figure this out, as I never heard from Jourdie what her outcome was.
You do not have to have proof of employment, only proof of sufficient funds to support yourself. Indeed this visa status is often used by retirees who are no longer working, but support themselves with their retirement savings/pensions. The 2024 “SMIC” (French minimum wage level) is roughly 1400 EUR per month net, that equates to approximately $19,000. You will want to show at least that much, preferrably in savings. It won’t hurt to list familial support, but I can’t say how much weight that will have with the French administration, as they are just taking your word for it. Note that you will once again need to provide proof of a similar amount each year that you choose to renew your visa, if you decide to stay in France for multiple years.
I have not heard about the VFS assistance program before, but at only $44 I’d say it would be well worth it if any assistance is indeed given – though your experience so far does not sound very promising. If they are not going to reply to your request I would not wait around for them before proceeding with your application. But if you do get anything from them, we’d be interested to hear your thoughts about the experience.
Hi Luke, thank you so much for the quick reply!!
” And I would certainly do this on a computer rather than a phone. Please let us know whether you are able to figure this out, as I never heard from Jourdie what her outcome was.”
Ahh, I re-tried fro:m a computer — I had indeed been trying from a phone– and I see the many other options now, thank you:!!!
“You do not have to have proof of employment, only proof of sufficient funds to support yourself. Indeed this visa status is often used by retirees who are no longer working, but support themselves with their retirement savings/pensions. The 2024 “SMIC” (French minimum wage level) is roughly 1400 EUR per month net, that equates to approximately $19,000. You will want to show at least that much, preferrably in savings. It won’t hurt to list familial support, but I can’t say how much weight that will have with the French administration, as they are just taking your word for it. Note that you will once again need to provide proof of a similar amount each year that you choose to renew your visa, if you decide to stay in France for multiple years.”
Oh, I see, wasn’t expecting that for direct family members — so if the majority of savings to finance the stay is in the name of family (direct ascendants), it would be better to add the name of the person travelling to the saving’s account/make it joint, for example?
Would it still help even if adding the traveller’s name to the savings account is done within a few weeks of the visa application?
And is there a risk of visa denial if it’s not done (if there isn’t enough in one’s personal savings, for example for someone younger wanting to take a gap year to visit) and the family are just listed as garants in this section?
Financement des frais de voyage
Par moi-même
Cochez cette case et remplissez ce bloc si vous financez une partie ou la totalité de vos frais de séjour.
Moyens de subsistance *
Cochez vos moyens de subsistance propres.
Hébergement prépayé
Transport prépayé
Chèques de voyage
Carte de crédit
Numéraire
Autre
Par un autre garant
Cochez cette case et remplissez ce bloc si un autre garant finance une partie ou la totalité de vos frais de séjour.
Précisez lequel *
Saisissez les noms et prénoms du garant.
Moyens de subsistance *
Cochez les moyens de subsistance fournis par le garant.
Tous frais financés pendant le séjour
Hébergement fourni
Transport payé
Numéraire
Autre
Thanks so much for the advice!!
And I’ll definitely let you know how it goes if I do hear back from the visa asssitance services!
Hi Kara, thanks for reporting back about the computer working where the phone did not. I hope that helps others that might have this same problem.
With regards to familial support, I will admit I don’t have personal experience with that approach so take my words with a grain of salt. But fundamentally, if the visiteur has sufficient funds to pay for a year in France, be these funds of their own or of their parent’s, and if they can satisfactorily prove the existence and availability of these funds, I don’t think you will have a problem with the application. My comment about how much weight the administration would place on familial support was ill-worded, but what I was trying to convey is that it’s not sufficient for you to know that such support exists, it needs to be convincingly demonstrated to them.
It’s up to you if you want to add the traveller’s name to the relative’s savings account, and no, I don’t think it will matter that this was done shortly before the application. Otherwise then as you say list the relevant family member as “garants.”
Either way, have the applicant bring the relevant bank statements to the interview to show proof of funds. If these statements are in the parent’s name, still bring them, and in that case I would also bring a short, signed letter from the parents indicating their commitment to support the applicant financially. Note that during this whole VFS process it is completely fine to write letters, provide documents, and communicate in English.
I hope that helps, but let me know if you have more questions.
Hi Luke,
Thanks so much, that makes sense and helps very much!!
Should the signed letter be an original, or if the parents live in a different location, would you suppose it would be ok to have the letter notarised by a notary and to bring a scanned copy?
Thanks again so much!
Hi Kara, notarization in this case seems to me a little overkill, but I guess it won’t hurt anything. I’d think an original signed letter would be sufficient, couldn’t they mail it to the applicant so they had the original?
Hi Luke,
Sorry for the late reply and thank you for the reply! Yes, that’s possible but was a question juste in case mailing it would end up being complicated!
And for the ID photos which need to be taken, what are the size and general requirements?
If we are in France, would it be possible to have them taken for the application whilst still in France or would the photo norms not match?
Thanks so much!
Hi Kara, the photo requirements are fairly universal and of the kind expected for passport photos in most places. Here is a link to a French site with more information:
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10619
You certainly can have the photos taken in France, and conveniently you will find “photomatons” for this purpose at most commercial centers, train stations, and other similar public places. You can access a search tool at the link above to find one near you. If you take the photos back in America, just go anywhere that will give you passport photos, Walgreens and other pharmacies are the usual places, and I think Kinkos/FedEx stores also offer them.
Hi Luke,
Thanks so much !
Just wanted to follow up in case it helps others — there was an option not mentioned in the article that we ended up encountering when making the appointment for the visas and selecting “additional services”, it would seem there is now an option to pay 12 USD to have the photos taken for you at the visa centre — along with options to go to the centre at a time ouside of normal hours to avoid the wait (50) and to receive the visa by courier in the mail rather than picking it up at a centre (50) )–yay, that certainly simplified things for us!
Sorry to bombard you with questions but in looking over the requirements once again, I had a few questions about the letter notarised certifying that one won’t work in France.
If the applicant is a student and/or not employed, is there a certain template one would go about following for writing the letter?
And you mention that freelance or work online may not count for this–for example, if one teaches piano online to an international base or would like to do something similar, via Skype and self-emplyed, would that be breaking the rules of the visa or signed letter certifying that one won’t work in France, or would it not be considered working for a French company?
Should the intent to do this be explained in the letter? How should it be worded?
And could it be notarised by a French notary or other foreign notary (e.g. British), or must the notary be American?
Can it be written solely in French as well or would it need to be in English also?
Would one be allowed to teach French citizens as well or would this be breaking the rules and restrictions?
Just want to be sure we aren’t breaking any of the rules hedre –thank you so much again for all of the advice and help!!
Hi Kara, the letter stating that the applicant will not work in France does not need to be notarized. Here is the format I used if you wish to copy it (it’s in French, though it doesn’t have to be, and no, you don’t need it in both languages):
ATTESTATION
Je déclare sur l’honneur que je n’exercerai aucune activité professionnelle rémunérée en France.
Fait à (the city in which you presently live), le (day/month/year)
(Signature)
The kind of freelance work you are describing sounds to me very much like the exact sort of thing that would be in breach of the agreement not to work in France. If the person in question has financial resources as you have mentioned before, such as money in a savings account or assistance from parents/relatives, then that suffices to show proof of financial means. In that event there is no need to discuss employment. They don’t want to see that you are working, they want to see that you can support yourself financially. In some cases remote work can be permitted, such as described in the article, but by far the most straightforward case is not to work at all, which it sounded like was the option being pursued here. Therefore mention nothing about employment other than the statement above, demonstrate the applicant’s financial resources, and stop there.
If you have further questions about the kind of work permitted or not under the Visiteur visa, I recommend you join the American in Paris Facebook group, where you can get more detailed answers:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/theamericansinparis
Hi Luke,
Thanks so much and apologies for the late reply!
That does indeed seem the least complicated route.
Another question on a related but different topic, if one wishs to pursue citizenship is it absolutely necessary to have an employment or self-employlent in France ? (What about for retired pensioners?) I had been combing the archives on this site and noticed comments mentioning that it’s impossible to acquire citizenship simply by living in France long-term on a visitor visa?
Is that the case, and if citizenship is a goal, would it then be worth pursuing a different visa type in future?
Thanks so much again,
Hi Kara, you are correct that the Visitor visa does not offer a pathway to citizenship. One of the (many) requirements for a citizenship application is 5 years of paying taxes, but under the visitor visa, you will be tax-filing, but not tax-paying. I am not personally knowledgeable about the best way to pursue citizenship, if that is your goal. The Profession Libérale path is discussed most frequently on this blog, and you will find many posts about it if you do a search. The first one to read is “Which Long Term Visa to Pursue: Visitor or Profession Libérale?” which is here:
https://theamericaninparis.com/2019/01/24/which-long-term-visa-to-pursue-visitor-or-profession-liberale/
Note that after being a visitor for five years you can apply for a 10-year residency card, which is still not citizenship, but is a lot easier to obtain, and gives one rights far beyond what the original visitor status did. Again search this site for articles, but here is a start, “How to Get a Ten-Year Residency Card in France?”:
https://theamericaninparis.com/2023/12/31/how-to-get-a-ten-year-residency-card-in-france/
Thanks again, Luke!!
Didn’t know about the 10-year card possibility, which is interesting even though it means waiting 5+ years to work if not changing status.
Would you happen to know whether one must pay a specific amount in taxes each year ?
For example, if one receives familial support each year and it exceeds the tax-free amount so that one must pay income taxes on it, e.g. 20 000 – 30 000€/year, would that be enough for citizenship application down the line even if one is not working/on the visitor visa ?
Are there specific requirements for financial resources for citizenship that you or the team at TAIP know of, and is it necessary to be working at the time of applying ?
Also, on a side note, we were wondering whether for the 2nd year of visitor visa and the renewal process, having a monthly income from family of 2 000+€ into a French bank account would suffice along with the signed letter guaranteeing support, or if it may be more strict or fail for any reason ?
Thanks so much again,
Best
Hi Kara, I am not personally informed about the citizenship requirements, you might try posting a question under one of the Profession Liberale posts and someone will respond to you there, and at the very least read through them all (there is a lists of 10 that are permalinked on the right side of this site, or at the bottom of the page if you’re on a phone). I would also again point you to the TAIP Facebook group, where these topics can be discussed in more detail (https://www.facebook.com/groups/theamericansinparis)
What I can reiterate in answer to one of your questions is that there is no citizenship path through the Visitor visa status. You talk about paying taxes if familial support is over a certain amount – I’m not a tax expert and I’m not even sure if familiar support would count as taxable income, but at any rate, whatever taxes are owed on that would be paid to your home country, not to France (of course you must still file taxes each year in France, but that is not the same as paying). So no, there’s no workaround to transition to citizenship from Visitor.
With regards to your final question, in fact the Visitor renewal process is less strict rather than more, as compared to the application process. When you go to renew for year 2 you simply have to prove that you have been doing what you said you would do on the original application, which is living off your familial support in France. Among other things they will ask for recent bank statements (from your French bank account), provide these statements where this monthly support payment will show up as a deposit. That proves to them the support has indeed been coming in and funding your purchases and life expenses. I highly doubt they would ask for any kind of letter, and if they don’t ask for something, don’t provide it!
Thanks so much for the replies Luke,
We don’t have Facebook but will try to check some of the other ressources!
And just a quick update to say thanks so much again, the demande de visa passed with no issues with a signed, notarised letter (we did that for convenience and to make it look more official in the end) and came back within 9 days!
Happy Christmas and hope you have great end of year winter festivities
Great news Kara! A very Merry Christmas to you and your family as well.
Dear Chris!
Thanks for such an informative post! I hope you can help me out to share your point of view!
I’ve been working in Paris for 7 years now. I am currently holding my 2nd 4years (under Blue Talent Passport Visa) which will expire in July 2025 – that makes me qualify for the 10 years resident card upon renewal. However I’ve recently left my job in January 2024 and now under Pole Emploi.
My questions are:
1) If it expires in July 2025, can I apply in beginning of March 2025?
2) Can I still apply for the 10 years card then, without a CDI? I mean I have a solid 5 years continuious tax returns, and for 2024 tax return wont be ready upon my renewal.
3) If I get a job out of France (out of Europe) do you think I apply still apply from Overseas (I own a French property so I will have a local address).
4) You mentioned that the French proficiency requirements will change to B1 in beginning 2025 (January?), is it confirmed?
5) Do you have any other advise for my situation?
Thank you so much for your time, your page is the most comprehensive and practical information so far!
Peter
Hi Peter,
I appreciate your kind words. I’m glad that this post has been helpful. Below are some answers to your questions:
1. My understanding is that you need to submit your application between 2-4 months prior to the expiration of your current card.
2. Your five years of tax returns will show five-years of continuous residency and past resources. While nothing is stated that requires a CDI the prefecture has the right to request proof of future resources…
3. Which makes this question a delicate matter. If you’re employed abroad (and not living in France), your continuous residency could be called into question thus compromising your request for a 10-year card. Yes, you have property in France and the prefecture may not investigate too deeply into your situation, but I feel like you are taking an unnecessary risk by not being here when applying. Especially given the fact that an unwritten part of the process is an enquete en mairie (my mairie requested to meet with me for this).
4. I have not seen this published yet, however my prefecture is already requiring it.
5. If you have further questions, I’d be happy to set up a paid consultation call with you. Let me know if you are interested and we will email you to set something up.
Best,
Chris
Hi guys,
Sorry for the absence of reply. The outcome for this year was no visa for my mom. I believe she deleted both accounts, created a new one and tried again to no avail.
Hope you have better luck.
Sorry to hear that Jourdie. If she tries again maybe the tip about PC vs. phone will be of use. I know it is possible to complete the process, but I understand technical troubles can be a bear to figure out.
It is a great blog post with helpful and informative tips. Thanks for sharing this information with us.study in france
Hi Chris, I already have a 10-year carte de resident good til 2031. But it’s not the EU card. So I want to re-apply for that one but would like to consult with an immigration attorney first as to feasibility. Could you please share your attorney’s contact info? Many thanks.
Jumping in here — Judy, I just connected you to our attorney via email. Thanks for reading!
I have been watching this Blog for about a year and it’s so refeshing to hear the actual ‘truth’ in regards to remote-working in France. I, too, was beaten down by the crazy FB “Experts” and all the nonsense. Thanks so much for this great, valuable resource. We will be making an appointment in the future when we are ready to move to France (within the next 2 years). MERCI !!
Thanks for the support Derek! Happy that you have found the blog helpful — we’re here when you’re ready 🙂
Hello, me again :). I came by for some more sanity after reading an expat site with a Karen run amok giving recklessly bad advice. After reading some of the new updates here, I do have questions.
1. I’ve done the #1 thing: I’ve made the reservation and secured a cabin on the Queen Mary 2. I’ll (hopefully) come over end of October 2025 on the Long-Stay Visa. I’ll continue work for the American company from October 2025 to end of 2025, so approx 70 days. Will I need to file a tax return for 2025? Seems not, but ???
2. (sorry, long one) In 2026, I will work for the American company for another 9 months and, if my carte de séjour application is approved and I’m allowed to stay, then I’ll say my wistful* goodbye to the American company early.
I’ll have sufficient SS & state pension to exceed the income requirements. I’d have to file an income tax return for 2026 definitely, but by then, I’d have my CdS. My second renewal (2027, unless I were lucky enough to get a longer approval) would be based solely on retirement income.
I plan to have a French bank account and direct deposit of SS from US deposited (I checked to make sure it’s possible.) I don’t want to lie at all, but I also don’t want to raise alarms where none exist. Would it be of benefit for me to explain at the outset that I’d only be working for the American company for a year and then retiring (with proof of sufficient income, of course)? Or should I just stay silent and wait until I’m actually retired?
3. Also, what happens if after a few years retirement income is closer to the minimum? Do they ask you to leave? I should be okay unless something radically changes. My retirement is woefully grim in my current US location on the WC but quite sufficient for France, but I’m just wondering how that works.
Thanks again for all your sanity and patience. Grâce à vous and all this advice, I’ve been so encouraged. I’ve already found an excellent location (not Paris for me), three places to volunteer, and I’m studying French with tutors to refresh/upgrade my long-ago French skills. mille mercis, elle
*so very sad 🙂
Elle
1. No
2. ok
3. they aren’t monitoring your income that strictly. They will be looking at your bank statements more to see that you are living life in France with expected bills, not scrutinizing how much you make.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience! This is super helpful as an American starting the process! I am starting to request the documents from the States and I was wondering which need to be apostilled? Is it just the birth certificate and marriage certificate or the FBI background check as well?
no need on the FBI background check.
Thank you so much Stephen! Really appreciate your help!
Thank you for your online resource! I was about to go to blows with folks on the “Americans Driving in France” who kept sending me to a 2007 link where Kansas was on the reciprocity list. Through your site, I have verified that Kansas is no longer on the license reciprocity list with France. I also appreciate your exchange with Lennart Nordstrom. I would also like to own property, in France, but only travel there a few times a year, each time under a tourist visa (90 days or less). To verify, non-residents are allowed to purchase a vehicle in France and insure it without a French driver’s license? If yes, would you recommend I purchase an International Driver’s License each year?
Gabriela
The international driver’s license is unnecessary in France and most of Western Europe. Just have your US license. You’re not a resident nor do you plan to be, so you don’t need a license.
Only French residents can hold a French driver’s license. You cannot have one. Therefore it is totally possible to purchase and insure a car with your American license. There is also the title of the car in your name. This requires owning or renting a place in France to anchor everything. An international license is not required.
First off, I’d like to commend you for consistently providing thoughtful and detailed replies over the years. It’s been really helpful to read through the various questions and answers. I’m adding my scenario here because I haven’t seen one quite like it.
My Situation:
My wife recently secured a position with a UN organization in Geneva, Switzerland. She will receive a Carte de Légitimation for her work in Switzerland.
We are considering living on the French side of the border (within 30 km of Geneva), as many UN staff do. From my understanding, UN employees apply at the French consulate for a VLS-TS visa, likely with the “Visiteur” mention. This allows them to live in France while commuting to Geneva.
My Specific Context:
I am not a UN employee. I run a consulting business registered as an S-Corp in the United States, where I currently pay my taxes. The plan is for me to accompany my wife to Switzerland, apply for the VLS-TS Visiteur, and then move with her to the French side.
My Questions:
1- When filing my taxes in the U.S., should I avoid using the Foreign Earned Income Tax Exclusion (FEIE) and instead file as if I were still living in the U.S.?
2-If I do not use the FEIE, how would I show the French authorities that I have already paid taxes on my worldwide income in the U.S. to avoid double taxation?
3-Does this overall plan (working remotely for a U.S. company while living in France on a VLS-TS visa) sound reasonable to you? Any additional pitfalls I should be aware of?
Thanks in advance for any insights or guidance you can provide!
Christopher
I’m not an accountant and I’m not going to start pretending I’m one on the Internet, especially not knowing your own financial situation or the turnover of your business. 🙂 If you need a referral to a US accountant who works with Americans who live in France, I’m happy to make the connection. Just use the contact form on the website and I’ll connect you.
I’m also unfamiliar with UN norms. I’ve met people with special UN passports that allow them to do fascinating things. But the general principle is that if she works in Switzerland she has the right to live in Switzerland. Given that she can truthfully say she is not working in France, I suppose the Visitor visa could work.
I know of many people who work remotely on a visitor visa, declared to the French that they were doing so, and file their taxes in France each year, using the line item for foreign income.
Thanks Christopher. Its a small 1 person business bringing in less than 120k a year. So nothing wild. I essentially pay myself w2 salary. I just want to be able to keep working for clients remotely as I do now, and continue to pay myself a modest salary, while living in France on a VLS-TS visa. 🙂 It seems that is a reasonable approach based on your response.
Just curious how the French determine that one has already paid taxes on the foreign income.
Anyway, thanks!
Hi Christopher, thanks for reading! Sending you an email — you may benefit from a consultation with us or an immigration lawyer with whom we work with often.
I just completed the submission for validating my visa. I also got hung up on the “Référence réglementaire (regulatory reference) number”, which was nowhere to be found on my visa, P2 VLS TS. After a bit of research, I discovered this info has changed since this article was written in 2022.
Luke says that:
“Under remarques (remarks) we will specify our visa type, for us this will be Visiteur. You will also be asked to select a Référence réglementaire (regulatory reference) number from a drop-down list. You can find this number somewhere on your visa in small print, for me it was R311-3 5° and I believe this should be the same for all visitor visas.”
Since 2022, the French have re-codified their system and the two numbers they offer you both respond to your visa type. One code will indicate your visa was granted before or possibly during 2022. The other indicates your visa was granted after 2022.
In my case, having a temporary work visa in 2024, the correct code was “CESEDA R431-16 8”. I found a chart with the former and new codes for each visa type on the Australian French Embassy at the link below. Thank you, Aussies.
https://au.ambafrance.org/IMG/pdf/pdf_instructions_validation_visa.pdf?14488/96f43e474f77f68316122d1e34aabdef121923d9
Hope this helps save someone the hour it took me to figure this out.
Thank you very much Jackie for this useful update. I have modified the post and I hope that it does indeed save some future readers the trouble you had in finding this code.
For those reading this and validating a Visiteur visa, note that the code will be “CESEDA R431-16 16.” Jackie’s code was for the temporary worker visa, not the Visiteur.
Grand merci encore Jackie!
Hey Stephen,
Thank you for the helpful forum and details. I am also in the process of gathering my documents… the birth certificate with the apostille stamp has been a real headache for me since I have a Consular Report of Birth Abroad from the US. Just a question, did you get the orignal copy of your Birth Certificate returned to you or did the Prefecture keep it after your interview? I am asking because despite trying to request multiple, I was only given one Certificate with the Apostille stamp and I am worried it is not enough in case they keep it. Please let me know what you think and hope your interview went well!
Best,
B
Because I knew I would be going through this process the last time I requested a birth certificate extract I requested multiple ones. No, they will not be returning your copy to you as it’s part of the documentary record and paper trail.
When you say you are “worried if they keep it” are you thinking your proof of birth will be erased? That’s not possible. 🙂
If you can’t order multiple ones, order one. Then order another one when that order arrives.
Hello All,
I attempted to exchange a Texas DL within the first year at the Bayonne Prefecture (his was before the online application was possible. File in hand, thick with all the necessary and costly translated documents, I was told that because I was in France on a carte de séjour visiteur, I did not qualify for an exchange. Then they proceeded to exchange my husband’s DL, as he was holding a profession liberale carte de sejour. So with his knowledge, I have not attempted it again. Seven years later, I am finally applying for a 10-year residency card but am still holding a near-expired Texas DL which I can’t renew online nor in person because I am a resident of France. I have submitted my application online for a French license nevertheless…foolishly expecting a miracle. Another example of how each prefecture is able to interpret the law through their own lens. I should know, as I’ve had the pleasure of living in six different departments.
Thanks for sharing, Marie!
I’m currently an RN considering moving into tech to make myself more marketable to move abroad. Do you know of any websites I can research in terms of in demand skills in France?
Thank you and thank you for the article.
Hi Camren, I don’t know of any specific websites, but would encourage you to look at sites like Indeed and LinkedIn to see what types of companies are hiring in the towns and cities you’d be interested in living in. I hope this helps!
Thank you so much for the helpful article, Luke!
I’m just curious about whether they you had to take a language test and if you were assigned the 4-day civics classes as well, during your OFII visit? I thought it was mandatory for anyone with a VLS/VLS-TS. I’m here on the latter (vie privée et familiale) but don’t intend on renewing my visa after it expires next summer. I understand the need for the medical visit, but do I still have to go through the rest?
Hi KC, no, I was assigned no such thing. There are no language requirements or civic classes for the Visiteur visa, only the medical exam. There are differences between the Visiteur and Vie Privée statuses but I don’t see anywhere where the latter requires language or civics classes either.
Thank you greatly for the article and commentary! Seems fairly clear that remote work is currently accepted by the French consulate. I have a related question that has also experienced its share of online negativity. I’m wondering if such negativity is fair or if it’s also overblown. When it comes to the question of changing from a Visitor Visa to a work Visa (e.g., Profession Liberal), most guidance I’ve seen says (1) that doing so is difficult and often takes 4-6 months because the prefecture will scrutinize your initial intent of applying for the Visitor Visa, (2) you greatly increase your change of changing visa status by renewing the Visitor Visa once and waiting until the second renewal period to try and change, and (3) you cannot look for work while on a Visitor Visa (even if you do not actually engage in work). First question: do you agree with points (1), (2), and (3)? I suppose I’m somewhat confused because there must be many people who wish to take one year off work, live in France, but then return to working after a year. Seems quite reasonable and in compliance with the terms of the Visitor. Am I missing something? 🙂 Thanks!
Jeremy
1 and 2) as I said in my original PL visa article, you need to renew your visitor visa at least once. I don’t even know of a case where someone switched to PL without ever renewing their Visitor. This is not published anywhere as a guideline by the French, but so many things are not said by them that are facts.
3) This is a nutty assertion.
I can’t speak for all the noise in all the forums. I can only say we haven’t yet ever had one of our points contradicted on remote work contradicted by the French administration. When that day comes, we will publish it, because we aren’t interested in being “right” as so many online Karens do, but in helping people who want to live in France, a country we have adopted as our own.
Visiteur is a valid immigration status and this civil servant was wrong. In those situations, one must push to submit the request. Today everything is done on line and those situations are less frequent. This said the process is very long and tedious
My story: I failed to apply for my reciprocal US/French driver’s license in a timely fashion. I’m now the owner of a sans permis voiture (without a car license). This car is by Citröen; you don’t need a driver’s license. There are several ‘like’ auto manufactures. I’ve only seen a couple on the road; they’re all over the EU. They’re electric; a 14 year old can drive them (with, I believe only a scooter’s permit – but no permit for an adult). If you’re past the date of receiving your French license and you need a car, Google: sans permis voitures. You can also rent. I paid $8k for mine (that’s the low end). They move like snails; (Fred Flintstone comes to mind). Monthly insurance rates are high (you can imagine why). They’re likened to golf carts. They’re necessity cars. You CANNOT drive on motorways, but if you’re like me, my village is 5 minutes from a COOP supermrkt.
I can get essentials. These cars have no airbags. There are no bells-and-whistles. There’s a USB port and beverage holder. Extremely roomy inside. There’s no trunk. There are two seats: one for you and one for another human, or human with a large dog and/or enough room for plenty of groceries. There are no back seats. Again, it’s by no means a car to cruise around in. It uses the same plug as a hair dryer (must have an adapter if not near a normal plugin). The Theory Test (Code Test) for garnering a French driver’s license is très difficile even for the French. TG I’m not one who needs a car for travel. Yes, in some/many ways, it’s like living on the other side of the moon (for what I’m accustomed to). But that’s part of the journey (albeit a slow one, in this little car) but it’s not about the destination – or maybe, in this car, it’s ONLY about the (nearest) destination! Keep breathing. It’s just another bump in the road, and in this car, you’ll feel it.
* To clarify. I wrote: “I’ve only seen a couple on the road; they’re all over the EU.” The reason I’ve only see a couple, is due to how rural I live.
Hello, thanks for your blog. As a freelance designer in the US, invoicing a small job to a French client, I do not need to charge the VAT, do I? If I understand well, I am exempt from charging the VAT if I invoice for less than 33K euros a year. Am I right?
Chloe
VAT only applies to European-based companies. As an American company/freelancer, you have no obligation to do anything with VAT. The 33k number you are referring to (may have fluctuated) applies to people who are in Europe, paying into European tax systems. VAT is a Europe-wide thing, not part of other country’s tax systems outside the EU. You may have to pay VAT on purchases you make in Europe, but if you’re not resident or doing business in Europe, you don’t usually have to pay VAT. That’s part of why there’s a “VAT refund” line at the airport.
Your services are awesome, I really appreciate. In my case I already stayed In France for 12 years and had a carte de sejour renewable every year but when I came to India in vacation to meet my aged parents first I lost my father and before I could regain France my mother had a heart attack.So in a period of 13 months I lost both of them. During my stay of 12 years I took various French language courses at prestigious institutes like Jussieu for two years, at Alliance Ftancaise de Paris etc. for 6 years and then obtained French Language Diploma, Certificate of Tourism & Hottelery, Certificate of Business French from Paris Chamber of Commerce & industry and worked as Translator Interpreter for French, English, Hindi and Gujarati for 6 years. Moreover I have good notions of spoken Portugese, Punjabi, Urdu and Bengali . Because of social, family responsibilities I could not come back to France before the expiry date of my carte de sejour. And at the same time period there was a huge influx of people from Eastern European nations in France that hindered the renewal of my carte de sejour.But as per the Bills passed in Jan 2024 regarding the liberalized rules of Immigration / Integration Laws may I regain the Hexagone or not. I wish I could come back to France and engage my linguistic skills in service OFF RANCE.
Hello Mukeshchandra, I encourage you to look into any of the services mentioned here. Good luck!
Hi Chris! Thanks for this article (and this entire site, which was a huge part of the reason we decided to take the plunge and move to Paris earlier this year.) Quick question about the 10-year card – can the 5-year proof of residency can be on any type of visa? We’re currently on a VLS-TS but my husband is thinking of switching to a student visa so he can work a bit and get some training to make him a better candidate when he is able to work permanently. Just want to make sure that switch won’t cause the clock to “start over.”
Hi Anna,
Below is the quoted text for the five years of continuous residency requirement :
“If you have resided legally and continuously for at least 5 years in France or if you have a European Blue Card, you can obtain a Resident Mention Card long-term resident – EU under certain conditions. This card allows you to stay in other countries of the European Union. It is valid for 10 years and is renewable. We present you with the information you need to know.”
My understanding is that this means that so long as you can prove that you have been legally in France for five continuous years, the actual visa status does not matter.
Thank you Chris! This is super helpful.
Hello Stephen,
I came across your website because I was scared sh**tless by one of the multitude of “Karens” on various FB pages of expats in France.
She told me that my partner’s VLS TS visa does not allow him to work remotely in France and that he applied for a wrong visa and that VFS Global made a mistake recommended the visitor visa. It should have been the “profession liberale” and that we will be fined and kicked out of France if he works in France…. blah blah blah…
I was confused and nervous by that fearmonger and out of desperation, google “if one can work remotely in France”, thank God your article came up.
You are absolutely right! My partner applied for his long stay visa in France with his remote foreign income last month. I want to share his case here for other people to know.
My partner is a self-employed person, working remotely for 2 notaries in Canada. At first, he was confused between the profession liberale and the visitor visa. So, he filled out both forms. At the appointment, the representative at VFS Global Toronto advised him that the long stay visitor visa would be the correct visa for him. So, he submitted his proof of income with the notaries’ letter confirming that he is working as a contractor remotely for them indefinitely. He provided 3 recent invoices; his letter of intent which stated that he promised not to search employment or clients in France. He provided 3 years income tax return in Canada, plus a saving account of more than one-year minimum income requirement.
His visa was approved and issued within 2 business days from the day of his appointment at VFS Global Toronto.
A few days ago, I was looking for an apartment in France, and posted on 4 expats groups to see if anyone have a place for rent. One woman reached out saying her friend has an apartment for rent, so we were exchanging messages. She asked about our employment status, and when I told her that my partner works remotely and he has a visitor visa, she freaked out. She kept going on and on that he got a wrong visa and that he would not be allowed to work in France , blah blah blah… for hours!!!
She is adamant that the expats group about Carte de Sejour and visa have many experts in immigration and visa…She told me to post a question about my partner’s situation on the group. She assumed that maybe VFS Global representative misunderstood that my partner would not work in France, she disregarded that I repeatedly wrote that he applied with a remote income from Canada, that his clients wrote letters, stating that he is working remotely and indefinitely for them….
I told her that I would not ask people on FB group about my partner’s case. If I need to clarify, I would call VFS Global or the consulate in Montreal. I ask her should I trust a nobody or trust the authorized representative at the French consulate who approved my partner’s visa? She insisted that they must have misunderstood that my partner is not working remotely in France.
I had to cut her off and said that I need to go for lunch. She would not stop! What is wrong with these people?
It’s also upsetting to see many people asking questions in these groups about moving to France with a remote job and they were told by these fanatics that they can’t legally work remotely in France. They just killed other people’s dreams pretending that they are the law holders when they are not. It’s very sad to see!
Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge. Bravo for doing a wonderful job!
Helen
Thanks again for providing the receipts against the Karens. They still have never provided a single case in which someone was deported from France for the great crime of remote work.
Mau I ask what your score was in %? Congrats.
Hi Chris,
Thank you for a very informative article. I had a quick question :
1.I would like to request a 10 year residency card but I do not see a comment box anywhere on the form that is available on the online site of my prefecture (demarches.simplifiees.fr) where I’m applying for my titre de séjour renewal (travailleur temporaire). So I am wondering where to mention the same? Should I just write an application and upload it in some section of my application?
2. I was waiting for my job papers to come through so now my visa expires in 3 days. I am guessing the 10 year card is a long shot?But since I’ve been her for 5 years, I wanted to try nevertheless. Do you think that’ s a good idea?
Hi Devika,
My apologies for the long response time.
1. I would say that if there’s anywhere that you can write that you are wanting a 10-year card, that will alert the prefecture of your desire to apply for the 10-year card.
2. Typically, the application for renewal needs to be submitted at the earliest 4 months and at the latest 2 months before the end of validity of your travel document. In the future, I would suggest submitting your application within that timeframe.
Hi ,
i am from a 3rd world country and planning to study in France and i currently work remotely for an employer in my home country . can i continue my current remote job while i am studying ? if yes then do i need to submit any paper to embassy related to my current job ?
if yes then what paper i need to obtain and submit ?
Vicky
Firstly, a student visa in France allows you to work up to 24 hours per week, so there’s no question of being allowed to work.
As far as I know there is no restriction in any way, for any visa classification, for a remote job.
Hi, we are moving soon from the US to France. My husband is retired and I work remotely for a US company. Can you guide us to a tax professional? Love your article, it gave me the info I needed to get my visa. I was totally upfront about continuing to work remotely and had no problems at all. Thank you.
Dayna
We will reply via email on this request. Glad to hear things went well!
Does this plan cover you outside of France ?
Hi John! Some mutuelles do offer international coverage, but you would have to check with each specific company/plan to confirm.
Hello!
It is such a relief to find a page highlighting these confusing visa/tax issues and the misinformation surrounding it all. Thank you very much for taking the time to write this article, and for reading and responding to everyone’s individual comments and questions on the topic. It’s super informative and so, so helpful.
I’m British and I work for a UK company. That’s where I currently pay my taxes, my job is 100% remote. I’m planning to permanently relocate to France with my French partner because of his new job. We’ve been PACSed for 5 years and lived together (outside of France) for over 8 years, however I’ve recently realised that this does not allow me to obtain a spouse/family visa – not initially, anyway. I am now considering the renewable 12-month visitor visa.
Having spent the last couple of weeks reading posts on various Facebook groups in relation to remote work in France on a long stay visitor visa, quite frankly I’ve been absolutely terrified about our upcoming move, wondering whether I’ll have to quit my job for 12 /24 months, or marry my French boyfriend immediately to avoid being potentially fined, imprisoned, deported, or straight up banned from the EU if I am ‘caught’ working remotely.
Exactly as you have stated, the French consulate just advised me that as far are they are concerned: ‘with the 12-month visitor visa status it is possible to work remotely for a foreign employer situated abroad with a foreign contract’ – but also recommended that I seek independent tax advice, which is what I am now looking to do.
I’ve read most of the comments on this page, and I hope that I am just worrying unnecessarily – but for my own peace of mind I would very much like to speak with a qualified accountant/tax advisor before submitting my visa application. Basically just to confirm that what I am planning to do in France is compliant from a tax perspective, and to understand where I should be paying tax on my salary etc. Feel it’s worth explaining that I do want to pay income taxes and social security contributions in France, as the country I will be living in and where I intend to spend most of my time, even if that involves a pay cut on my part – but I’ve been told it is simply not possible on a visitor visa. So, I am a bit confused as to how to move forward.
Could you kindly help me with this, can you recommend or refer me to an English-speaking accountant/tax advisor in France? I’m obviously happy to pay for a consultation and provide whatever information/documentation may be needed. I will also require their assistance in the future to file tax returns, whenever the time comes.
Thank you in advance!
Lau
Hello Lau, thanks for reading and for outlining your situation. All of the tax and accountant contacts we have specialize in US taxes, but I’m going to send a few emails to see if they recommend anyone. I’ll CC you — keep an eye out for a message from me!
Hi Molli,
Thank you very much! That’s very kind, I really appreciate it 🙂
Thanks Stephen for helping out so many people with this tricky subject. I’ve skimmed through and I don’t think my kind of query has been answered before – forgive me if I missed something though!
I’m a service provider working in the audio-visual field. I’m registered as a freelancer in Australia, and I still do work for clients in Australia since living in France. I will soon be going onto my first year on CDS Vie Privee which allows me to work in the country. I intend to start a micro-enterprise in France to keep things above board for local clients. However it would be preferable to pay tax in Australia if possible (yes there is a double taxation treaty).
So the question is, as I’m living for most of the year and physically doing the work in France, what are the French tax implications of invoicing with my Australian company and being paid into Australian bank account by: clients in Australia, vs clients in France, vs clients from 3rd countries?
I feel like French clients in particular is a little on the dark grey end of the grey zone, but it would be great to have something more to go by than a “feeling”.
And then the follow up question – will filing my taxes as Australian fiscal resident, French tax non-resident work against me for renewal of the carte de séjour?
Or even if I could meet criteria for fiscal residency in Australia, by virtue of spending more than 6 months in France will I be obliged to file as a tax resident in France anyway?
Thanks!
Jordan
Let’s start with the last question first. I don’t know of any scenario in which you can renew a French visa as a non-tax-resident of France. Remember that at your first renewal, if it’s only after a year, you’re unlikely to have a tax return handy, just because of how the calendar works (someone arrives in June 2026, but by June 2027, he/she still won’t have a return to present at an appointment, for example). But the French are not going to accept any further renewals while you continue to assert that you’re a tax resident of another country.
As the article says and as I try to reiterate in the comments, you can live in France as a remote worker. But you’ll still have to file taxes. Everyone has to file taxes if you’re a resident. You have a vie privee anyway so the fears of the people in the comments don’t really apply to you.
Further, you’re talking about starting a business in France to deal with “French clients” but France is part of the EU. You could incorporate anywhere else (Bulgaria for example) and still bill those French clients. Your Australian company could bill French clients.
The premise of your main question implies that people who reside in France are not allowed to have entities in other countries, and must discriminate about which clients they take for those foreign entities based on the physical location of the client. The answer to that question really has nothing to do with immigration, and only a limited bit to do with taxation, as wherever you’re billing from is going to be the country interested in taxation. If your Australian business is doing business with French clients, it really doesn’t matter where on the planet you are, either to the French or to the Australians, as long as wherever you are staying, you are doing so legally.
We are not qualified to advise you on the best tax setup for your personal circumstances. That’s a conversation you should have with a qualified accountant. If you use the contact us form we would be glad to connect you.
To sum up:
You cannot maintain a visa in France without asserting French fiscal residency.
You can live in France and do work remotely for another company, even your own company, even on a visitor visa. Your vie privee visa gives you even more “gray” latitude.
You don’t need to have a French entity to bill French clients.
You don’t need to live in France to bill French clients.
You have no moral or legal restriction preventing you from having French clients, no matter where you live in the world.
Hope that helps. 🙂
Hi Stephen,
This is a great article, that appears to be “ageless” since I’ve found it long after you originally posted it.
My question doesn’t seem to have been answered here, previously. And I’ve asked been inquiring about the way to proceed since long before we applied for our long stay visas to retire in France. We now live in the south of France. We moved here from the USA, earlier this year.
I shoot and edit videos, mostly for our own “memories” but I created a YouTube channel, years ago, before we moved to France. Currently, I have continued to shoot the videos here in France sharing our new home, places we visited for lunch or dinner, our travels, and created some videos on how we applied to get our long stay visas, how we applied to get on CPAM and exchange our driver’s licenses, and any other processes, I felt others might be interested in learning about, whether they are thinking about retiring in France, already here or are armchair travelers. My channel is monetized and the monthly “royalties” are deposited to my Wise card as US dollars.
Before moving here I had asked an immigration attorney who did a seminar, what type of visa she thought we needed to apply for since I don’t consider making YouTube videos a “job” and I do them more as a hobby. We have sufficient income and savings from our Social Security benefits and modest savings and investments, to qualify for the Visas. She told me that since the money I receive for the monetization is really just a royalty and if I stopped making the videos, the money will probably still keep being earned according to how many people watch the old videos, the income should be considered just “passive” income. Clearly I’m not doing this to support my husband and I. She said when we applied for the Visas I should just note that it is “additional income”/royalties. We average maybe $100-140US per month +/-. When we filed our US tax returns last year before moving, I reported the income as “royalties”. We’re getting close to the time when we have to renew our long stay Visas, here in France. So, I’m wondering if you think I should approach the renewal as I did the original application, and simply call it “additional income”. We are retired and may still have to pay taxes on it in the US (not sure about France) if our joint come warrants it and I have no problem reporting it as “other income” when reporting worldwide income, when we do our first France tax return next year.
Someone on one of the “France/Visa/Legal” forums on Facebook, stated that YouTube creators have to apply for a different type of Visa because I’m shooting and editing the videos IN FRANCE. I mentioned that I am not doing this to support ourselves and it’s really nothing more than putting our “home movies” up on social media. I don’t sell any products or services in the videos. Clearly we’re not receiving enough to support anything more than a nice dinner out once a month. And it’s actually costing me money (with subscriptions for editing software and music) to maintain the channel and edit the videos. So there aren’t really any profits from doing this.
What are your thoughts on how I renew my VLS-TS visa? Should I just call it “additional income” and not mention that I make and publish the videos while living here in France?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
AH
I would simply say that you’re not required to disclose all of your world wide income on the renewal of a visitor visa. You simply need to be showing your French personal bank statements and your tax returns. The French have no reason to ask for your foreign bank accounts or earnings. After all, this is a renewal, which has the character of proving that you are living in France, as opposed to the original visa application which was to show that you *could* live in France. The barrier is much lower.
Way back when I had a visitor visa, I did not disclose my worldwide assets.
Basic principle: do not give the French more than they ask for. It never leads anywhere good.
My thoughts on the FB Kens/Karens whose sole joy in life is giving inaccurate, and often “bad news” to people, have already been shared in these comments many times. 🙂
Thanks but if most of our money is still in US bank accounts and our IRA accounts, in the US, that we provided to get our initial Long Stay Visitor’s visa, won’t we need to show those particular bank account statements again (since France knows the exist from our initial Visa application) , or will our Social Security benefit statements and the France bank account statement showing the money deposited by SS (which is more than enough to meet the minimum financial requirements), be sufficient?
AH
This is a bit of a problem. You should have opened a French bank account and run all your “living in France” expenses out of there. On your renewal, the French then look through those bank statements to see that you’re living here and that you’re not getting a French paycheck. You’re in France now, which means all your bureaucratic appointments are in French, unlike your initial US application, which was in English, so you may have to get your US bank statements translated into French so the bureaucracy can “read” them. You should have been depositing your US monies into a French account and living off that, not living out of your US accounts. If I’ve misunderstood you please clarify.
Renewing a visa is a totally different experience (i.e. it’s much easier) than getting a visa. They aren’t really looking for sufficiency of funds any more because the fact you showed up not homeless/very ill to the appointment is its own proof. They want to see that you have a French bank account and are living here. On my first visitor renewal the lady leafed through my bank accounts at roughly ten seconds per page as she just scanned the line items.
Gotcha!
We DID open a French bank account once we got to France and have our US Social Security benefit payments deposited into that account and we use that account for all of our expenses here in France. All of our savings and investment accounts are in the US. We rarely, if ever, remove any money from those US accounts, other than occasionally to pay a US credit card bill. We don’t use that money to live here in France.
So, it sounds like for our renewal, we don’t even have to remind them that we also have US bank accounts since we don’t use any of the money in the US to live here. We can just provide our Credit Agricole statements showing our SS checks being deposited each month and our outgoing rent, utilities and other expenses from shopping and traveling.
Correct! You are not re-applying for the original visa with all the burdens of proof that required. This is a renewal which has a lower burden of proof.
You are simply proving that you are doing what you said you would do, and that’s living off your income in France. Do not present any other information or statements beyond your French bank account.
Core rule for life in France: do not give the French more than they ask for, but always have more than they ask for in a folder in case they ask 🙂
Great!
Thank you so much for this!
Hi Stephen
Thanks for this – I might actually be able to sleep at night tonight. I live in France and have an Irish passport while my daughter lives in UK, has a UK passport and works remotely. She needs to come and stay with us for a while and work remotely after a relationship breakdown. I’ve been worrying that she can only stay three months, and that she’d be breaking the law by working remotely while she’s here. But from what you’ve written she could apply for a visitor visa with pay slips from working remotely and stay longer as long as she sorted out tax etc? I’ve been slapped down a few times in FB groups for asking this question, so this seems like a breath of fresh air and common sense! thanks.
I’ll never understand the “purpose” and “joy” these digital Kens and Karens have in pretending that they represent the sharp edge of French law. To date they have never presented a single case that accords with their world view (someone fined/deported). Until they do, let common sense prevail. 🙂
Many thanks for your reply. So that’s a yes? My understanding it correct? 😀
Yes I am asserting that I agree with your understanding of my understanding.
Thank you
Insightful, thank you.
You’re welcome!
Hi Stephen, Question about renewal/bank account, we have a wise account, if I transfer funds for paying our rent, insurance, etc., in France, does that suffice or we should open an account in a local bank? Also I was interested in getting a tax specialist referral and was not sure how/where to request that from you. Thanks for all your help. I reference your articles ALL the time, and people still don’t believe me when I say you can work remotely. I recently got my visa noting my US employer and handed in my paystubs with no problem.
DJ
We continue to stress that opening a French bank account is absolutely key. A Wise account is practical in general to have as a backup account/transfer partner, but immigration wants a French bank account, and you have a right to get one as a French resident.
https://theamericaninparis.com/2018/10/12/yes-you-should-get-a-french-bank-account/
Email us on the tax specialist referral and we will get you connected.
Here is the problem with this. You print your recommendations in English and I don’t see any of these offering an English language website?
This article is written for Americans living in France, so it makes sense all of the French websites linked are in the French language 😉 If you’re having trouble, I know Google has a great translation feature that works on most websites.
Sorta comical that after the initial translation of the splash page all their websites go white with Google……..Complete the information below to be contacted…….then there is nothing there! I do love French marketing!
Stephen, thank you for all you do and your integrity.
FYI, that person who runs an expensive French immigration hustle telling folks incorrectly that people cannot do remote work on a visitor visa is at it again. On a French-UK emigration channel she inaccurately asserts that visitor status is only for “secondary” home owners and retirees_old folks. But to work remotely, one needs the PL visa etc etc you catch the drift all for $$££$££. The kicker is she married a French person for her “visa” and did not earn it through merit and talent.
Something really needs to be done bc this person is likely costing decent people thousands of dollars for her con sultantship and their time, emotions, etc.. Is there an ethics board or department in France for business ethics, etc.?
Marina
Alas a legal action needs to be brought forward by her victims. Those of us who simply “know” about her don’t have standing to bring a case. We have to have been injured in some way. Best we can do is counter her lies here. And she has google alerts set up so she knows we are actively opposing her position.
I agree. I am reading that persons book and she has been less than nice to me online. I have countered with my own book-and I have referred people to reading this article (I hope that’s okay-if not, I will remove it).
The more information about her misinformation, the better.
Don’t be shy, drop her name! I am curious if it’s the same woman I’ve had negative run-ins with… I can’t tell if she’s a grifter or if I just don’t like her.
She is explicitly named in the intro to this article: https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/09/14/how-to-get-a-long-term-stay-visitor-visa-vfs-and-covid-19-edition/#comments
Dear Stephen,
I was extremely worried about remote work on “Visitor” visa and for last two days, was seriously thinking of taking some other route till I came across this post. Needless to say that I read all the comments and your very nice detailed replies in one breath. So much relieved after reading all and want to seriously thank you from bottom of my heart. However, still have some points little different in my case and would request you to take out time to give some guidance.
I am an engineering consultant from India having a sole proprietorship firm having an office and few people working for me here in India. I can control office remotely as my team is taking care of most of the things. The questions I have are as follows:
1. As I understand from post and your answers till now, one can work remotely as an employee or self employed single working person. Is it true for my case also where I own a sole proprietorship firm? Kindly suggest.
2. I run my business by a trade name and since it’s a sole proprietorship, the income tax returns are submitted in my personal name. I don’t draw a regular money from the account but transfer to my personal account as and when required. Will the receipts (income) in the proprietorship account be accepted as my means of sustenance in France as I don’t draw a salary as such.
3. Should I mention my sole proprietorship firm in the visa application at all or just show my savings and investments as my means of sustenance? What do you suggest?
Thank you very much for already making my head 10 pounds lighter.
Is it true for people on visitor Visa as well (as they are not paying any tax)?
Hi Manish, as you can read in the article if you have a visitor visa you are eligible for a temporary social security number (numéro provisoire).
Just to add, as India has double taxation treaty with France, do I have to pay tax on my income earned in India after 183 days in France or just declare (mention) it?
We are Retired US Citizens currently living in Spain on a Golden Visa. We are seriously thinking about renting or buying a house in France to live in May 15 > Oct 31 = 169 days, so we will need a Visa good for 6 months only. In this way we will not be considered Taxable Income Residents, correct? The question is can we apply for this Visa at a French Consulate in Spain or is there some other process?
Eve
You can apply in Spain as you are French residents, just keep in mind that this a nonrenewable visa and you’ll need to renew every year.
But this is an academic exercise. Your Spanish residency effectively allows you to come and go from France as you please. You’re not subject to the 90-day Schengen calculator, primarily because there is no passport control between the two countries.
Does one get billed for insurance? and is this the same as “assurance etrangers”?
If you mean a mutuelle, you can get one if you want: https://theamericaninparis.com/2022/01/31/how-to-get-a-mutuelle-in-france/
This is not the same as “assurance etrangers” this is regular coverage in the French system with the normal copay/reimbursement.
Dear Stephen,
I was extremely worried about remote work on “Visitor” visa and for last two days, was seriously thinking of taking some other route till I came across this post. Needless to say that I read all the comments and your very nice detailed replies in one breath in your other blog on “Can one do remote work on visitor visa?”. So much relieved after reading all and want to seriously thank you from bottom of my heart. However, still have some points little different in my case and would request you to take out time to give some guidance.
I am an engineering consultant from India having a sole proprietorship firm having an office and few people working for me here in India. I can control office remotely as my team is taking care of most of the things. The questions I have are as follows:
1. As I understand from post and your answers till now, one can work remotely as an employee or self employed single working person. Is it true for my case also where I own a sole proprietorship firm? Kindly suggest.
2. I run my business by a trade name and since it’s a sole proprietorship, the income tax returns are submitted in my personal name. I don’t draw a regular money from the account but transfer to my personal account as and when required. Will the receipts (income) in the proprietorship account be accepted as my means of sustenance in France as I don’t draw a salary as such.
3. Should I mention my sole proprietorship firm in the visa application at all or just show my savings and investments as my means of sustenance? What do you suggest?
Thank you very much for already making my head 10 pounds lighter.
Alas, Manish, I am doomed forever to read “my case is slightly different…” until we shut down comments for this post 🙂
1. I’ve always thought it best to use trade names instead of sole proprietorships. The French are so thoroughly employment-oriented that it feels strange to them to see a letter written by yourself attesting that you will pay yourself. In cases of a DBA or an LLC I’ve advised people to use a shareholder or empower a family or friend on a one-time basis to write the attestation of your income. It’s best to have some kind of distance so that the French can see that as an “employment” letter, which is what the box on the visa says, not “self-employment” which may lead them to tell you you’re applying for the wrong visa, and should apply for the Profession Liberale.
2. The French have no idea what the status of the bank account is; what matters to them is the funds that it contains. If it has your name attached to it, and the funds are sufficient, that’s all that matters.
3. If your savings and investments meet the SMIC (French minimum wage) I see no reason to mention the employment you have (whatever form it takes) as it’s not relevant.
If you continue to work for your US company but live in France, do you continue to have them pay you as though you were still in the US and then declare the total on the Worldwide income line of the French tax return, apply US tax credits and France taxes you on the difference?
JPJ
We don’t give individual tax advice here for many reasons. Please consult a professional. If you don’t know one, use the contact form to email us and we will connect you.
I get that remote work is okay, but I get anxiety thinking about the tax part of it. Am I treating taxes like I am working in the US-just leave that part alone, then enter the worldwide income on my French tax return-and pay the tax difference from what I paid in the US to what I owe in France? This part really has me stressed out. Thanks.
Thank you very much for the reply. Please excuse me the phrase. This is basically a result of the anxiety one gets from all these processes and misinformation on net. The problem is that I am working with the name “Manish Consultants”. It’s not an LLC or anything. Even if I authorise someone to write a letter in my name, the correlation with company name is clearly visible. I also have another similar firm by another name not related to me. I can get a letter written from that. However, won’t it be clear in my tax returns later on? Or as you have said in number of cases that it will be just a line in the returns? I understand that it would also be better to consult an accountant at this stage. Request if you can connect with someone qualified.
Manish
Tax returns to whom? Do you mean the French will ask for your Indian tax returns?
You probably need a consultation. Feel free to schedule using our contact us form. 😉
Hello Stephen,
Thank you for the great insights and information provided in a wonderful and clear writing style.
Did you end up submitting the motivation letter even though it was not required? If so, where did you end it?
Btw, did you hear from them regarding your application after the initial notification/acknowledgement?
Thanks and regards,
Raymond
Raymond
Only had the interview today, I had it ready to go but realized that it wasn’t necessary given everything else. That letter plus the two letters of recommendation I had with me ended up staying in my folder. I may end up sending them anyway, as I have the email of the lady handling my case, but I’ll ask her before just sending it blindly.
I don’t expect a decision right away, but no later than June 2025.
Hello Stephen,
Thank you for getting back to you.
Best of luck and hope you will get a positive outcome very soon.
Cheers,
Raymond
Thanks for this detailed blog.
Is it possible to have both the CDI in a French company and also have a micro enterprise on the side ?
What type of business would you suggest for as a commision agent ?
Is it possible for 2 people to be registered under a micro enteprise ? If not , can we add the person as co-partner ?
Thanks for reading! It depends on the type of visa you have — is it directly tied to your CDI? In that case the answer would be no, you can’t open a side business. If you have a more general visa, like a VPF, that’s a different story. It sounds like the company structure you’re hoping to create goes beyond the auto-entrepreneur status, you can’t add someone as a co-partner on a micro entreprise.
Hey thanks a lot for this useful post, will the criminal record/background check also need to be as recent as 3 months? I would assume not since you have been living in france and this document concerns a time period before you moved to France. Then technically it is valid as long as it is obtained anytime after your relocation to France?
Polly the three-month thing is usually just for an Electricity bill. Translations have long been valid for much longer than they used to be in the past. My background check was almost a year old by the time it was processed as were the translations. As I noted, once you’ve been here ten years, which I was awful close to at the time of submission, it’s not even necessary.
Thank you for this useful information. Is apostille required for the birth certficate of my parents? Or just my birth certificate?
No apostille required for either of my parents’ BCs.
I arrived in France in November 2019 and received a retirement visa in 2020, which I have renewed 4 times. Would I be allowed to apply for a ten year visa now or do I have to wait another year? Obviously I’d rather have a ten year visa sooner rather than later, so is it worth a try anyway?
Susan if you have completed five years of continuous residence by the time of the appointment, you can apply.
Hi Stephen! You mention in other blogs that a long-stay visitor visa is not a path to citizenship. But would it be if you have a long stay visitor visa renewed for five continuous years, then switch to a 10-year residence card and integrate (work, language, paying taxes)—wouldn’t you then be eligible to apply for citizenship at some point to the course of the 10-year residence?
Lia
Sure, but then you aren’t getting a citizenship from visitor status, but from a ten-year card, which is the most muscular visa status you can have as a foreigner in France. In some ways, the sort of screening they are doing these days for a ten-year card is even more stringent than that for nationality!
What I mean, and what I maintain, is that I’ve never heard of anyone getting citizenship from visitor status itself. The case you are proposing is someone getting citizenship from Carte de Resident status, which is an entirely different classification. Visitor is not, itself, a path to citizenship.
As to the “some point” you refer to, it would need to be at least five years after the commencement of taxpaying, which would be well within that ten-year window. Your clock would actually start from when you start paying taxes, not from when you’ve been a resident, because as a visitor you aren’t paying taxes.
Thank you Stephen—I appreciate all you do with this blog and your thoroughness. It’s the best!
I guess if I understand correctly, a lot of it is a matter of how much time you have to commit, what you qualify for at which times, etc.
One thing I wanted to confirm if you have a moment—can someone who renews their long-stay visitor visa annually for five years qualify to apply for a 10-year-resident card (let’s say they develop strong language skills, file taxes but don’t pay taxes every year, have a residence)?
Or is it once a visitor, only a visitor, and one would need to muscle their way in with a different visa status once they can obtain it (i.e. profession liberale, student, marriage or other)?
All the best to you!
Hi,
I also arrived in France around the same time as you with a one-year visitor visa because I’ve been PACSed with a French guy since September 2019. I then converted that visa into a TDS-VPF for the following four years. I thought that after living here for five years, I’d be eligible to apply for the 10-year residency card. However, when I submitted my application, the prefecture told me that the first year I spent in France doesn’t count towards the five-year residency requirement for the 10-year card since I was on a long stay visitor visa during the 1st year in FR. So, I don’t think a visitor visa allows you to apply for the 10-year residency card regardless of how many times your renew it or how long you stay here. Same applies for the citizenship.
Hi Stephen, thanks for the informative article. I wanted to check how long before you got the DELF results?
Additionally, did you have to wait for 6 months to get the diploma to apply for citizenship or were the test results (meant to arrive in 1 month) sufficient?
Thanks a lot!
Kalindi
It was not anywhere close to six months for the results. Maybe six weeks at the most.
In any case, as I noted in my articles on the citizenship process, this was not actually the last piece I needed, as I had more difficulties with other paperwork. This was actually one of the easiest bits. 🙂
Hi Stephen,
I’ve been following your posts about naturalisation as I’m about the same timing as you with my application.
However, my « demande déposée » or « confirmation de dépôt » arrived only in July even though I first submitted my documents ie « demande envoyée » in April – so 3 months wait. However it would have been only 2 months, as they requested for 7 documents to be resubmitted in June eg « demande de complement » email e.g. scan ALL passport pages, apostille with my birth certificate, various work contracts, P237 form etc. It took me about a month to get it all sorted and resubmitted. The apostille was the biggest waiting time as I’m Australian but born in the Philippines – luckily I have relatives that helped me. Goes to show that your paperwork skills need to be in top gear (even though I have an immigration lawyer helping me…)
Thankfully, this week after waiting an additional 5 months, it went from « Demande déposée » to « traitement en cours ». I guess now the various departments are evaluating the documents contents, so maybe in 2-3 months I’ll hear back to receive the « Completude de Dossier de Demande de Naturalisation » email based on your timings and then the interview date, assuming all goes well with the proper document review.
Anyway I do have a question. I’m incredibly nervous about the assimilation interview as my French speaking and listening skills are terrible. I have the DELF B1, which I barely passed, but I can get by day to day. I’ve never been gifted at language learning even though I practice often, go to classes etc. I’m reading the livret (even made 100 Quizlet e-cards!), brushing up on cultural knowledge and my motivations etc However during the interview, how do you think I should manage my very basic French oral skills? Do you think they will consider this as not assimilating enough even though I may have answered their questions?
Jonathan
Jonathan
How did your immigration lawyer allow you to submit a dossier with all of those things missing? You should get a refund! 🙂
They expect B1 competence, no more. If you “barely” passed I would get up to a level in which you are much better. You are going to need to discuss a number of things in French during your interview (article coming soon) and you need to get beyond “very basic French oral skills” because if you don’t, all the knowledge you’re working on now won’t matter, as you won’t be able to express yourself.
It is a reasonable demand for a country to demand that naturalized citizens be able to answer basic questions about history, literature, geography and more intermediate questions about government and public policy. I would spend as much as you can working on your speaking with the French. It may not sink your application, but it won’t reflect well if you cannot express yourself well in your interview.
Thank you for the above. You say “The only exception is when investing in a French (PER) or US Pension (IRA, 401k). Under the tax treaty, the French pension is only taxed in France and the US Pension is only taxed in the US. That means that you can hold any foreign funds inside the pension without worrying about the taxation of the investment”. Does that mean that I (a US citizen, French resident ) can invest in a PER and NOT have it considered a PIFC by the IRS ? Many thanks in advance for your reply.
Chira
We don’t give investment or tax advice here. If you’d like to get personalized advice about your situation, Cedric Bernier is linked at the top of the article and they will be happy to help you.
I am a UK national living in France and will be applying for renewal of titre de sejour at start of 2025. I came to live in France on a long stay visitor visa. However, I have recently been asked by some of my ex-clients in the UK to do remote graphic work for them. I am not an employee of any of those clients, only acting as a freelancer, is this ok?
As I’ve said many times in many ways, France has no moral or legal right over the work you do in other countries until such time as they pass a law governing remote work in relation to visa status.
Hello,
I have some questions about renewing my professional liberal status in France. I am currently on a one year title de séjour and would like to renew mine but I have not made nearly enough thé SMIC. around 6000 euros in the year. Please let me know if it is still possible for me to renew and the process I should follow as I have been looking online and have not been able to find any clear information on how to proceed. Please let me know if you can help me out and i will be very grateful for your help!
Hitoe
Your chances of renewal are low, unless you have a very good explanation for why you made so little. They may put you on a provisional 3-6-9-12 month version of the visa and have you come back with more income during the time frame. If you match their expectations, you have a chance of getting a four year card.
Hello,
Are you sure that a visitor visa qualifies for the 10-year residency card? I’ve been living in France for 5 years, but only my first year was under long stay one year visitor visa. For the last 4 years, I’ve held a “carte de séjour” VPF. A few days ago, I had an interview at the prefecture to renew my card, during which I specifically requested the 10-year card and provided all the required documents, language test, taxes, bank statements…etc. However, I was informed that I need one more year of residency under my current status to meet the 5-year residency requirement. According to them, the first year doesn’t count because it was under a long stay visitor visa. Based on this, I don’t believe the visitor visa qualifies you to apply for the 10-year card as mentioned in this post. Thoughts?
Ned
I don’t think your conclusion is correct, in part because I know people who got a ten-year card from visitor status. 😉
Could it be perhaps that you didn’t have five years of tax returns? For the ten-year card the time living in France is less relevant than the number of tax returns you have, and perhaps with five years you only have four avis d’impot, and sloppily, whomever conveyed the message to you somehow missed that a visitor visa is not some “leper” status that doesn’t qualify for a ten-year card…you have to be a fiscal resident of France, even on visitor status, and that is only one part of your qualification anyway. Did you file a return when you were a visitor? If not, that’s the answer to why you didn’t get it.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for your response. I just saw your message. I’ve filed a French tax return for every year I’ve lived here, including the year I was a visitor. However, you’re correct that I only have 4 avis d’impôt instead of 5, since I officially moved to France on the last day of December 2019. According to the tax office, I didn’t have to file taxes for 2019, and I haven’t filed my 2024 taxes yet. So, at the end of this month, I will have officially completed 5 years of residency in France. It’s also the date my current TDS expires. Every renewal so far has aligned with the previous expiration date.
I think you may be right—maybe the worker at the prefecture made a mistake. They did, however, ask me to provide my 2019 tax returns, which didn’t make sense to me since I officially lived in France for less than 24 hours in 2019. I gave them my U.S. tax returns instead, and they accepted them.
Assuming they only grant me a 2-year renewal instead of a 10-year carte de séjour, do you think I’ll be able to request the 10-year card after filing my 2024 French taxes next year? Or would I have to wait until the next renewal of what I assume will be a 2-year card? The timing of my move makes this so tricky! I did provide them with pay stubs and bank statements for 2024 since I didn’t have the tax return for this year yet. So there is still chance maybe I will get the 10 years card. But if you think the residency doesn’t matter and it’s all about how many tax returns I have then yes you are correct. I don’t have one yet for the 5th year. Thank you,
Ned
Ned
I’m not implying you need to file for that year. I arrived December 13th myself, so didn’t file that year either.
I just think the “proof” is what the French are always looking for in bureaucratic functions and the only proof we would have is the passport stamp next to our original visa, but I’ve never been asked for that in any context outside of my first OFII visit. Additionally, everything administrative I’ve participated in since then that requires “proof” has always revolved around French tax returns, including my recently-submitted citizenship application. When you say “2-year renewal” are you on vie privee? That’s the only visa classification I know that does 2-year renewals.
I think if you think of the math of it, you will only be in possession of the “fifth year” after the renewal, whereas what the ten year card is asking is for five years at the time of submitting. So, since you haven’t renewed yet, you only will have four years at the time of submitting, which makes you ineligible.
Whatever the functionary is saying, I think you’re going to be fine applying at your next renewal. You cannot request an early renewal without a serious reason, i.e. change of status (marriage/divorce).
What’s the rush? Are you planning to move?
Hi,
Yes, I have a VPF. There’s no rush; it’s just about renewing and making payments more frequently. I guess I can wait and see.
Dear Stephen,
I’m currently employed as a software engineer but I plan to take a sabbatical and enjoy life as a tourist in France for a year and start a remote business based in the US. On my visa application, is it advisable to put unemployed (since I will be quitting my job in March 2025), self-employed even though I have not officially incorporated the business, or should I put my current employer?
Do not give the French more information than they ask for. If you are employed at the time of the application, that is what you should put.
Thanks so much for your reply! I’m currently employed but I noticed that the form requires the phone and email of my employer. I have not informed them of my move abroad and plans to quit as this could put me at risk for retaliation and poor performance reviews (which is not uncommon at my company). I’m hoping to only give them a 2 weeks notice. Would there be any harm in marking myself as unemployed since I have the necessary savings?
Samuel
No need to get yourself in trouble. Be unemployed! 🙂
That’s good to know Stephen! I’ll mark myself as unemployed. I tried sending an email for a paid consultation to you but I had trouble sending it through. Could I schedule one with you just to make sure all of the documents I have are good to go?
Thank you for this, it is so helpful. I’m an American on a work visa in the UK, and looking to move back to France (where I previously had a student visa).
I have a full-time salaried role in the UK and have freelance clients on the side who pay me directly into my bank account.
I was, like many, convinced that PL made the most sense for me, and was planning to go freelance with my full-time role and continue working with other clients (I have even discussed it with my employer). Now, I’m not so sure.
Would I not be able to continue to be paid in pounds/dollars in an american or british bank account on PL? I know I’d need interest from French clients for the application and would intend to secure said clients.
I can’t tell if long stay visitor makes the most sense. If anyone has thoughts, they would be much appreciated
as an aside some of my freelance clients in the UK include taxes in the paystubs, so I don’t have to file them to the UK. But it seems like i would then be double taxed on them if i got PL.
Carla
Why would the French approve you to start a French company and then benefit another country (i.e. have deposits go somewhere outside of France)?
A PL visa is about you starting a French company in France, meaning you are going to get paid in euros to your French freelancing business. You can continue to get paid wherever else you want for some segment of your business, but none of that income will be counted towards your PL business, which needs to be at a certain income level every year in order to stay valid.
If you’d like to do a consultation to look at your specific case, feel free to make a booking in the sidebar and we can chat more. 🙂
Hi Stephen,
Thank you so much for the thoughtful and detailed post. I am US/CAN dual citizen with American parentage. I have been a little confused in my research so please don’t take my collection of questions as disrespect for your own research or laziness on my part – I just can’t seem to understand what to do on these despite my research and so would greatly appreciate your thoughts if available.
1)I was brought to US in my parents’ car as an infant but was born in Canada. I’m the privileged color in America to not get asked many questions (sigh), so we didn’t even know I didn’t have a social security number until I was 14 when we went to apply for my first passport. This means I have all my passports but nonaturalization papers. I *think* I understood that this may be okay (I’m just at longterm visa application stage presently), but if you know different please warn me :).
2)As with many adults in the west, I have no contact options to reach my family and I do not know where my parents were married or born. I have a couple guesses but I truly don’t actually know. Do I understand correctly that we need parents’ birth certificates in addition to our own? Did I also understand from your post that we need parents’ marriage certificate (even though lots of parents aren’t married)?
3)You briefly mentioned the marriage/divorce certificate/s. Is this necessary to provide even if one is no longer married and their name matches birth certificate name? I have all my documents related to marriage but I am not married anymore and such documents translated would present significant expense since they are many pages each. So, I just want to make sure I either budget a lot or don’t do unnecessary work if I don’t need to.
Merci beaucoup!
JJ
I recently responded to a gentleman who was asserting that he could apply for citizenship from a long-term stay visitor status. I told him that would not be possible. If you scroll down to my reply to someone named “Jay” you’ll see why. So I just want to make it clear, at the outset, that if you were planning a path to citizenship via long-term stay visa, that’s not a direct path. The best that could be hoped for would be obtaining a 10 year card in 5-6 years time, and then obtaining work in France and applying 4-5 years after that.
1) You do not need your birth certificate in order to get a visa, but you will definitely need it, translated and apostilled, when it comes to your first renewal.
2) You 100% will need both of your parents’ birth certificates. For the question of nationality, they will have to give you a French birth certificate, and they can’t do that if they haven’t done due diligence on the people who would be named on that French birth certificate. If your parents were never married you are going to need some kind of legal attestation stating this to be the case.
3) JJ referring back to point 2 this is a due diligence situation. Think of it like applying for a loan at a bank. If you just told them, “I used to be married, but I’m not anymore, just take my word for it, we don’t need those papers,” how do you think that will fly? Now upgrade it to asking a country to make you a citizen and realize how strange that would be. You are going to need all of those documents, yes, translated, yes citizenship is not an inexpensive thing.
But I really don’t know why you are asking about all this stuff now. You are not remotely eligible for citizenship. You should focus on finding a visa that makes sense for your situation and your goals in France. I or any of my colleagues would be happy to help you with that. Feel free to use the contact us form in the sidebar to make an appointment.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for more lovely and informative prose. Do you happen to know what the physical involves even though you did not have to do it? I am medically retired – nothing infectious or dramatic (except for bringing my life to kind of a standstill relative to its earlier pace), but chronic illnesses that frequently fall into the “invisible disability” category. I would want to make sure I am not on a fool’s errand trying to come to France, if there is a physical :). Thank you so much!
JJ
I did have to do the physical originally and I talk about it here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2022/02/07/ofii-visit-for-long-stay-visitor-visa-2022-update/
I didn’t have to do it “again” because I was simply changing my visa status to a different kind.
Hey, merry christmas! Thanks for your very informative postings. I am on my third year or a visitor titre de sejour. I am retired from the US. My goal is to apply for citizenship as soon as I am able, mainly because I realize that laws regarding immigration may well change here in the coming years. When I come up for renewal during my 5th year here, should I apply for a 10 year residency card and then apply for citizenship later? What other options do I have at that point? Is there a four year visa after 5 years of residency here? I realize that you are in a difference category of visa, but maybe you could point me in the right direction. Thanks.
Jay
I’m sorry to be the first person to tell you this, but you’re not eligible to apply for citizenship in France on a visitor visa.
One of the major criteria for citizenship is “attachment to France.” In your citizenship dossier and in your interview this is scrutinized in obvious ways that I’m sure you already meet: familiarity with the country and its laws, French friends, perhaps even French associations you are part of.
However, “attachment to France” is also qualified by where your income is derived from. If the majority of your income is derived outside of France and you have no real record of paying French taxes (only of filing them, which as a visitor, you should have) you don’t have a shot at citizenship.
I would encourage you to go for a ten-year card, as it is a very robust status and conveys the right to work, which you could then use to get a job which could then be taxed and after 4-5 years of paying into the French system and showing a majority of your income as derived from France, not abroad, you will have a decent shot at citizenship.
I don’t mean to convey that a 10-year card is a cakewalk, as they seem to be scrutinizing dossiers for “attachment to France” in a way that wasn’t the case 10-15 years ago.
Hope that helps.
PS final note it is not your “years of residency” that matter but the number of tax attestations you have. Someone who has lived in France five years may only have four tax attestations, and that key piece of paperwork is what the French rely on for these processes, not the actual date we arrived in France.
Hi Stephen. What book you recommend to study for the interview? Thanks!
Pamela
I’ll talk more about some other resources in a future post, but for now, the livret du citoyen is your best place to start: https://www.immigration.interieur.gouv.fr/Integration-et-Acces-a-la-nationalite/La-nationalite-francaise/Le-livret-du-citoyen
Thanks for this helpful and interesting info!
Hi there Luke and TAIF team!
I’m planning to move my family to France mid-2025, not just because we love it but also to enjoy the superior healthcare l. My husband will be receiving his disability retirement check (and my minor son through him as well). He’ll definitely go for the long-term visitor visa.
I currently contract for a company where I was previously employed for over 20 years (but they wanted me back :-p). Two big questions:
I checked with the contractor about remote working from abroad and they said the company doesn’t allow it. I wonder if they would if they could be relieved of the worry of tax implications.
1. Might there be some official documentation I could provide to relieve them of this worry to help me obtain the coveted “employer letter”?
And
2. Would I be able to enjoy the French national healthcare system—would definitely pay for it (how & how much?)—as a person living there and working remotely for a U.S. company?
Thanks so much for this information, as I was following the “absolutely can’t remote work” advice as well. If I can, it would make things so much simpler for us!
There is no official documentation your employer is going to receive from France that gives them “peace of mind” about taxation. I don’t see why you need to tell them where you are. Just contract with them as a 1099 using a US corporation.
When you say the “French national healthcare system” it has the same availability to foreigners as the US system does. It’s just that things cost less. You can use “assurance etrangers” for your first few months before entering the health care system officially (article on the website here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/12/13/how-to-get-a-numero-provisoire/ )
Just as a note, for someone who had a PPO in the US for many years prior to moving to France there is no difference in the quality of care or access to specialists. If you have a decent plan in the US you aren’t going to notice much difference in France in terms of how you’re treated but you are going to have a significantly smaller pool of doctors who speak your language.
Thank you so much, Stephen!
As far as how I’m contracting, I’m actually a W-2 employee of the company contracting with my former employer. They’re the ones who said “Former Employer X” doesn’t want those of us with working through them to work abroad. So I guess I’ll have to noodle with this to see if I can convince THEM or move on to another work option.
I akid always retained top health insurance but did not experience how really poor our system is until having to deal with a serious health concern (husband now has Parkinson’s). It’s a truly disjointed, profits-first system—and we’re with “the best” specialists in the region. People literally languish and die.
It appears coordinated care may be incentivized in France (or at least patient-wellness-first is the default orientation). And as he has a “maladie de longue durée” and will eventually be covered at 100%, we’ll receive better care while also avoiding going bankrupt in the process. Bonus!
Really enjoy your site; it’s an invaluable resource. 🙂
I working to establish a new remote business here in the US so that I can use it to apply for the Profession Libérale Visa in about two years. My question is: I will likely also still have income coming in from my current business in an unrelated field for a few years after we relocate. Based on your description of how the French view this visa, would it be best if I kept the current income generating business completely separate in order to keep things clean and easy to understand on the visa application? I ask because in order to do this I was thinking I’d establish a separate dba within my current S Corp for the new business. I’m in the early stages of building this second business and want to set it up with the specific intention of getting a Profession Libérale Visa.
Page
If you think that you need to establish a remote business in the US in order to get the PL visa I’ve somehow failed to communicate the message. The PL visa is about your creating a new business in France. The French don’t care what you are doing outside of France. They only want to determine whether you can start a new business in France, with some French clients. Having an American S Corp, etc. is an important part of a global tax strategy, but it has nothing to do with your French immigration process or the PL visa.
If you’d like more clarity, consider buying our course or scheduling a private consultation.
Hi Stephen,
My situation is that I would like to emigrate to France from the US in July or August of this year and apply 3 months before departure for a long stay visa. In my first year in France I would be a digital nomad independent contractor. My earned income would be derived from my current US employer, where instead of my being an employee, I would become an independent contractor for with them as my sole client. In the following year, I would retire with the bulk of my income being passive.
One of my goals would be, if possible, to minimize French taxation on my US based independent contractor income for the first year.
My questions are:
1. What type of Visa should I apply for. At the moment I assuming a long stay visa would be the most suitable.
2. Is there way to incorporate, given my business model, such that my income would be subject to French corporate tax rates, versus French income tax rates?
3. I want to join the French health care system as soon as possible after my arrival.
4. Though unlikely, my company could procure a French client that I could work with directly from France.
Based on what I have read in this blog, it appears you view is that a long term stay visa would suffice and that I would be subject to French income taxes on my first year independent contractor income.
LJ
If you are here on a visitor visa, there is no “French taxation” as America has a tax treaty and you will pay taxes on your US income to the US and then report your AGI (as already taxed) on your French return (there’s a line item for it).
You will find the answer on joining the French health care system here: https://theamericaninparis.com/2021/12/13/how-to-get-a-numero-provisoire/ but you’ll need to carry assurance etrangers for the 90 days before you’re eligible. Cigna Global is one of the providers.
As for questions 2 and 4 I don’t know where you are going with this. Creating a French company has nothing to do with a visitor visa. And if your current employer were to “procure you a French client” you would almost certainly be in direct violation of your visitor visa and the attestation “not to work in France.”
As for your last sentence “based on what I have read in this blog…” your conclusion is totally opposite to the information that I have shared in this article and in the comments. As a remote worker of the US, you are subject to US taxation. As a French fiscal resident you are obliged to FILE taxes, not to PAY taxes. You may have other French investments, like real estate, for example, that oblige you to pay taxes, but you have an eagerness to enter the French fiscal system as a taxpayer on a visitor visa which is a contradictory position.
Feel free to schedule a consultation if you’d like more clarity.
Hi Stephen,
Sorry for commenting on an old post – but you mentioned something in here I wanted to clarify with you. Specifically this bit:
“Today is eight days after I successfully changed to a Profession Libérale visa. As long as I earn a certain income over the next five years and pay the requisite taxes, I’ll be eligible to apply for French citizenship”
I’m in my 5th year in France – my first three visa’s were visiteur and then I transitioned to profession libérale for my 4th and 5th visa’s, both for 1 year validity. (I had hoped to get the multi-year visa at my last renewal and almost did… but apparently I never got invited to some civics course so have to get that sorted.)
For moving to either a 10 year visa or even potentially citizenship, they all talk about 5 years of continuous time in France – which I had always been including those first three years in France in my total. But your comment above makes it seem like maybe I’m actually only at 2 years now? Could you help clarify which way that falls for me please? Thanks!
Adam
The “five year” reference is never clear when you’re newer in the process, but I’ve come to understand it as “five years of paying taxes” which is not possible with the 3/2 split that you are currently at.
A key part of the nationality dossier is “attachment to France” and you would be hard pressed to show such attachment after only two years of paying taxes. A visitor visa is just that: a visitor, not anyone on a citizenship path.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for the reply. I did pay taxes for those first three years – granted it wasn’t very much as my taxes were offset from back home with the tax treaty – but I do still at least have completed returns for every year that I’ve been in France, paying at least some amount.
I might have to see if I can get an official answer and I’ll update here if I get one.
Hi Stephen,
Thank you so much for such a complete blog. It is so well written and clear to understand.
I am currently considering to apply for a Visiteur visa so I can live with my french boyfriend and “taste” Paris before I move long term. I have concerns around taxes though. I’m an independent contractor working for a US company. I pay taxes in my home country (Peru) as freelancer. I understand I would “file” taxes in France, and not necessarily “pay” for them. So here are my 2 concerns:
– 1. If I keep paying taxes in Peru, is there a risk that France “chases me down” for taxes due to me being a tax resident? (there is no double taxation agreement between Peru and France)
Additionally, my income is above the threshold of micro-entrepreneur level, which means that , if /when I change my visa status, I would have to set up a company and pay corporate tax and way more that (according to calculators) would ear up to 70% of my total earnings.
This was a huge question, I am mainly interested in getting an answer for the first question and not the last one above and I guess I will take it from there 🙂
Maria
It’s not so much that they will “chase you down” it’s that when you file your taxes in France there’s a line item for worldwide income and taxation in France depends on whether there’s a tax treaty. I would refer you to an accountant for these questions, as that’s their specialty. Check with Hadtax here: https://theamericaninparis.com/our-accountant-recommendations/
Hello,
I’m very interested in working remotely in France on a long term visitor visa. However, as you mentioned, the FB groups and immigration lawyers highly advise against this. I want to eventually acquire French residency and maybe even French citizenship one day. From my research online, it seems we can get away with working remotely on a long term visitor visa but once it comes time to apply for residency or citizenship, the French government starts asking a lot more questions about the income sources while living in France. Basically, I heard you can get away with it for a couple of years but not longer because you’re still working on French soil, even if for a U.S. subsidiary/company. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. I don’t want to spoil my chances of French residency!
Kendal
If you’re interested in French residency you can easily obtain it by holding a visitor visa with a remote job.
If you want French citizenship you’ll never get it by holding a visitor visa working a remote job.
To get citizenship, you need to show attachment to France and the most frequent ways you can do so are through getting married, working a job, or starting a business.
Feel free to schedule a consultation with us on the third option. Alas, we are not matchmakers or headhunters, so we can’t help with the first two 🙂
Hi Stephen, I’m not sure if you’d know the answer, but would individuals moving from the UK who work remotely be able to continue working remotely while living in France?
Thanks.
Hello! Thanks for your inquiry — we just sent you an email to follow up.
Hi everyone! Hopefully someone can answer my question. I’m about to submit all my paperwork for a French driver’s license (I’m in France on a VLS-TS visa, applying for a carte de sejour, about 4 months away from being in France for one year). I truly didn’t realize I had to exchange my American driver’s license for the French one. I assumed I got to keep it. When my French husband lived with me in Colorado he was able to keep his French driver’s license AND receive an American one. So much for reciprocity.
Anyway, I was going to just report my American license lost and receive a new one so when I have to send my other older American license to the French, I’ll still have the new one. My question is, will the French know I still have a newer American license? Will they check with my home state (Texas)? Should I wait until after I receive my French license to report my American license lost? The whole situation makes me nervous and I honestly can’t believe the French are going to take away my literal main form of identification in the United States.
Vent over! I’d love if anyone could answer my question in terms of timing to report my American license lost and receive a second one. THANK YOU!!!!
Laura
The main check the French are performing is to make sure you have a valid license. Where the location is, whether you’ve been issued another one, whether it was reported lost, is all out of their control (and frankly, beyond their caring). They don’t have the legal or moral right to stop you from getting a license anywhere else in the world just because you have a French one.
You have no idea how much peace of mind you have given me Stephen! Thank you so so much!!!!
Hello, Molli, are you still offer consults for Americans seeking student visa in France ? Thank you.
Hi Kendra! I am — I just emailed you.
Hi there Stephen,
Am I glad to find your website!
I arrived here by chance, while I was looking up info online for my citizenship application – a long overdue process much like yours, from what I have read ! : )
(I began looking it up in 2009!!)
My situation is a different one to yours (I’m Australian, applying for citizenship via marriage etc), but already, in a very short amount of time, I have had many of my questions answered, thanks to you – and your exchanges with others here in comments. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your site! It’s now saved in my browser and I think I will be refering to it again and again! It will be great to discover the rest of your articles too : )
With thanks and appreciation, Kat
ps good luck with the rest of your application process!
Katrina
Thanks for the kind words and welcome to the website!
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for this post! Is your birth certificate the only document that needs to be apostilled?
Thank you again!
Robert
Robert
I am only speaking for myself as a single man without children. I suspect that married people may need their certificate of marriage apostilled at least, if not perhaps also documents relating to the children.
Thank you for your reply, bonne journée!
Hi Stephen,
Thanks a lot for all the helpful details. Regarding birth certificates (myself + parents), do original copies need to be submitted or can scans suffice?
If parents are divorced is the marriage certificate still needed?
Lauren
You cannot submit original copies digitally. If you hop ahead to my interview article you can see that I was asked to present them (in my case, they only asked for my certificate, not my parents’ though I had both of those with me) in person for verification but they then handed the birth certificate back to me.
As far as the divorce goes, in the French mind (and in the law and reality) that doesn’t mean the marriage never happened. Indeed, I think you will need both certificates of marriage and whatever the equivalent of divorce is.
General rule of thumb is that you should never think, ever, that “the French probably won’t need/won’t ask for that.” 🙂
Hahah good point! I’ll go check out the interview article as well. Thanks again 🙂
Thank you so much for this extremely helpful explanation. I have 2 questions.
1) I guess I am a little ahead of myself — I filled out the entire form on Feb 15 and put August 15 as my entry date (we intend to go for the school year). I got to the end and it said I can’t apply more than 3 months out. So, do I — a) wait 3 months (seems a little nervous making — and also might an eventual landlord want to see my visa, creating a Catch-22) or b) put May 15 and then just wait until August 15 to enter France, the question being does the 1 year clock begin from the would-be/stated date of entry or from when I actually enter (and if so how long is the visa valid)? Part of the reason I am applying this early is that I will likely go for a reconnaissance trip in May and I want to make sure I’ve gotten my passport back. Mind you, it could be problematic if I get a long-stay visa starting May 15 and show up for 1-week reconnaissance trip in late May.
2) I will be going with my wife and 2 kids. Am I correct that the expected cost / funds I need to show are 120 euros per day per person? That would be 120 times 4 people times 365 days?
Thank you!
Joshua
Listen we have all been there. I knew a year in advance I would be moving to France and had to do everything during that nine months prior to my application as if I would get the visa. I only learned later that as far as a visitor visa, it’s almost impossible to get rejected as long as all your paperwork is in order. Words like “interview” made me think it was a competitive process rather than what it actually is, paper pushing. So, firstly, don’t worry about whether it will be approved. Focus on getting your paperwork right.
Secondly, you are making this really complicated. If you’re only intending to go for the school year, why would you need a one-year visa? Just get a nine-month one that covers the school year and avoids an OFII visit.
Finally, the visa begins from the date on the sticker in your passport, not from when you actually arrive. The French don’t really care when or whether you arrive. They got their money from you already.
PS Who told you this crazy 120€/day/person number? There are plenty of people in France who dream of that number. No, the SMIC per person is the correct answer: 17115,60€/year or 46,89€/day.
Thank you for this blog post. It answered some questions but raised others.
I’m a US citizen intending to move to France by the end of this year, with the goal of applying for French citizenship after 5 years. I’ve run my own consulting company for over 20 years (S-corp, sole owner, sole employee). My income is done as a W-2 employee through my S corp. I only have a couple of long-term clients based in the US and UK. I do not want to change anything from my client’s perspective.
Can I use a PL visa to establish a french company that has my US company as the sole client? Or perhaps create a french branch of my US company?
Christa
Your proposed use of the visa will not pass muster with the French.
The PL visa is a freelancer visa (equivalent to a US sole proprietorship, not a US S-corp) with an income cap (no income cap in the US) in which you make the case that you will create a French business with at least some French clients (no such requirements for a US company). What you articulated does not currently exist in the French visa regime.
If you want to pursue this path you need to create a slightly different business idea which can attract French clients, which you will need to provide the possibility of obtaining at your first visa proposal and fiscal evidence of at your first renewal.
We offer consultations on this and I took an analogous path when I obtained and retained my visa, starting a French practice similar to what I had and maintained in the US contemporaneously. Feel free to reach out using the contact us form.
I am having CSS , for my medical needs . Recently when I went to doctor he aasked for a card for CSS but I have a ppiece of paper. How can i get a card instead of this paper. Thank you.
Hi Bathiya, I recommend reaching out to Ameli directly — you should be able to send a message via your online account.
Thanks so much for this, Stephen! This post solidified that I will apply for Long-Term-Visitor visas for myself and my family.
My concern now is this: We plan to leave around the last week of July, 2025. My minor son’s visa expires in April of 2026, and mine in September of 2026. I was told directly by an “expert” (whose credibility has now come into question) that I shouldn’t worry about our visas expiring during and close to the end of the year we’re requesting to use them; that we can “just” renew them at the embassy while in France. I’ve expedited my passports in the past, but I’m a little wary these days about sending in our passports with the expectation of receiving them back any time soon.
What’s your experience with this? Do passport expiration dates of less than/close to one year impact whether or not one is approved for LSVVs?
It’s the six-month rule that most countries observe with regards to granting visas. Some countries even have a three-month rule. Given that your visa is literally a sticker inside your passport for your first year, and then you’ll have to give away that passport (and it will lose its validity) to renew, I advise you to just renew your passports early and obviate this concern. You’re going to have to renew at some point. Better not to do it with a sticker inside that you (technically) need for life in France.
Hi Stephen, how funny. I just attended one of Allison Lounes’s Q&As today and was very confused as I know many remote workers on the long stay visitor visa.
If, like Luke says in his post, the visa application includes a section for a letter from your remote, non-French employer, why would Allison say this isn’t allowed? Is there any truth to her claims?
I’ve also been told that you cannot use French public healthcare on this visa but your response to one of the comments here suggests otherwise.
Carla
Allison, in numerous contexts has shown herself to be self-interested, so the reason she tells you it’s not allowed is so that you can spend 4-8k with her. 🙂
Years ago I used to think that about the public health care system as well, because I wondered “how are you paying into the system as a visitor” but this fiscal black hole seems to be ignored as we know of and have helped people with an article on the website gain access to that system.
Hi Molli,
This blog and this post was exactly fitting to my situation. I have talked to a lot of people about advice and none I really found quite resonated with me until I read this. In your other post in “How to Get a Long-Stay Visa” you had mentioned a FLE accredited school. I have also heard of La Sorbonne from another connection I had. I was thinking of enrolling in that but its only 12 weeks when you had said that to be able to get a long stay visa it has to be min. a year. What language programs would be the cheapest amount and for a year that would grant me this visa. Ideally I want to get a student visa, then find a job that would transfer to a work visa.
Thank you in advance,
Lily
Hi Lily! Thanks for reading 🙂 I did the FETE program at Nanterre in the Paris region and loved it, though I’m not sure of the current price. I encourage you to check out this website — it has a list of FLE-accredited schools.
Thanks for this little write-up 🙂 A few years ago, I did a little investigation via a series of street interviews in Paris about this same topic. No one went into the etymology like you did here, but there responses on interesting nonetheless
Love it! Thanks for sharing Coleman 🙂
Hello Stephen,
Thanks so much for all the advice you’ve posted, it is really really useful.
My question is that my current employer in the UK is confused about what would be required of them if I was to work remotely in France for them. In order to apply for my visitor visa, would I only require my proof of income + a letter of authorisation for me to work from abroad from them? Is there something else that I would need from them? No fees need to be paid on their end right?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide!
KM
It all comes down to HR departments being scared. It’s not even a “letter of authorization.” It’s just a statement of facts. “Kaya will be working remotely at this rate of pay.” Don’t make it complicated for them and once they see that’s all they are doing they will realize the question of their paying fees is moot.
Hi Luke and Stephen,
Thanks for your excellent articles. My family is hoping to move to France, and the most likely option in terms of employment would appear to be continuing our US based jobs remotely. Is it possible to have our children attend a local école if we are on the long term visitor visa?
Hi Mark, yes your children absolutely can attend a French school. See this link for some information, but you will find a lot more if you search the web:
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/N31347?lang=en